Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

squod

K-9 wrote: »

Huh?

You think one party gets everything it wants in a coalition?

Its called negotiations. Toddlers throwing tantrums do get loads of attention for throwing a strop,, but ignored for being stroppy toddlers. Nobody likes tantrums.

Think we're talking about more than negotiations here. If we have to go back through the number of false and misleading advertisements (or statements) made prior to the election, we'd need another three threads.

Chucky the tree

Hijpo wrote: »

Can you clarify what people should base there votes on if pre election campaigns mean nothing?

maybe we should avoid elections and just pick some names from a hat?

Parties base there pre-manifesto elections on what they would do if they had complete control. The problem is in Ireland a single party pretty much never gets a majority. So we nearly always end up with a coalition. Now parties pre-election promises will be very difficult to actually fully implement. Basic example to make this a bit clearer. In their pre-election manifesto FG say they want to cut social welfare, Labour promise not to cut. Now if these end up in Gov than one of them is going to be a liar.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

A SVT is a property tax and the flavour of property tax we get is still to be decided (or at least the decision isn't public). I favour a SVT btw (although it would personally cost me more).

Anyway, that's an aside from darkhorse's ridiculous suggestion.

Hello up there. Could you enlighten me as to which ridiculous suggestion you are referring to, as I have made a few of them.

darkhorse

K-9 wrote: »

Huh?

You think one party gets everything it wants in a coalition?

Its called negotiations. Toddlers throwing tantrums do get loads of attention for throwing a strop,, but ignored for being stroppy toddlers. Nobody likes tantrums.

So, dya mean the false and misleading advertising is just an adage to the negotiations.

darkhorse

K-9 wrote: »

You actually prove my point.

Pre-election promises mean nothing. Yet here we are, you quoting a pre-election promise as if it means something.

The only thing that matters is what the party you voted for gets in the coalition deal.

Seriously, do you believe advertising beal?

You're not seriously suggesting that Government party leaders lied to the very people who is paying them mega wages plus expenses.:eek:

darkhorse

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Parties base there pre-manifesto elections on what they would do if they had complete control. The problem is in Ireland a single party pretty much never gets a majority. So we nearly always end up with a coalition. Now parties pre-election promises will be very difficult to actually fully implement. Basic example to make this a bit clearer. In their pre-election manifesto FG say they want to cut social welfare, Labour promise not to cut. Now if these end up in Gov than one of them is going to be a liar.

Chucky, just to be clear, are you saying that Gilmore has as much say as Kenny.

Chucky the tree

darkhorse wrote: »

Chucky, just to be clear, are you saying that Gilmore has as much say as Kenny.

No.

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

Catch up.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81336890&postcount=143

PLEASE EXPLAIN or read the posts.

Am Chile

K-9 wrote: »

You actually prove my point.

Pre-election promises mean nothing. Yet here we are, you quoting a pre-election promise as if it means something.

The only thing that matters is what the party you voted for gets in the coalition deal.

Seriously, do you believe advertising beal?

If pre election promises mean nothing, why is it ok for politicians to make certain promises if they know they can,t keep ? refering to labour promising not to increase third level student fees pre election-back in July on vincent browne pat rabbite admitted they made that promise knowing they probaly couldn,t keep it-ruari quinn admitted the same on labours way rv programme-yet it seems to be acceptable politicians can make promises and mislead the electorate in a pre election stage-if I applied for a new job tomorrow lied on the application form, got the job, later found out I lied on the application form Id be fired and rightly so, but politicians lie while applying for the job, ie getting elected, some people say ah sure that,s politics.

Am Chile

Was anyone watching the week in politics show earlier tonight ? one segment they were talking about household debt levels-the property tax came up in the conversation for a brieft minute or two-phil hogan stated we have to bring in a property tax we have no other alternative way to raise revenue, both FF rep Michael Mcgrath and SF rep Pearse Doherty but stated in their meetings with the trokia they were told the property tax can be pushed aside as long as their is another revenue raising alternative-phil then proceeded to ask how will we raise the money without a property tax, Pearse Doherty stated if they bring in a third rate of income tax for those earning over

€100.000 it would raise same signifigant revenue, phil made the predictable excuse they don,t want to tax work any more-so he asked how to raise the money without a property tax, he gets an answer then makes excuses about not taxing work any further.

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

Was anyone watching the week in politics show earlier tonight ? one segment they were talking about household debt levels-the property tax came up in the conversation for a brieft minute or two-phil hogan stated we have to bring in a property tax we have no other alternative way to raise revenue, both FF rep Michael Mcgrath and SF rep Pearse Doherty but stated in their meetings with the trokia they were told the property tax can be pushed aside as long as their is another revenue raising alternative-phil then proceeded to ask how will we raise the money without a property tax, Pearse Doherty stated if they bring in a third rate of income tax for those earning over

€100.000 it would raise same signifigant revenue, phil made the predictable excuse they don,t want to tax work any more-so he asked how to raise the money without a property tax, he gets an answer then makes excuses about not taxing work any further.

Hogan, another fall guy come December?

Le_Dieux

emo72 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1021/eamon-gilmore-europe.html

a surprise statement by merkel? it seems like a bit of rowing back. its official lads, we're a "special case".....duhhh

So, we are a 'special case'.

What does that do for ( or against ) us? Other thing that worries me is that someone in Germany ( or another more prominent country other than ours) can get out of the wrong side of the bed, say something along the lines of what happened on Friday, and WHAM...............we are looking at another ( at least ) 10 years of austerity. Don't care what anyone says, that cannot be right!

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

Hello up there. Could you enlighten me as to which ridiculous suggestion you are referring to, as I have made a few of them.

The ridiculous suggestion that Enda Kenny wasn't aware of what was in his own manifesto.

tayto lover

Le_Dieux wrote: »

So, we are a 'special case'.

What does that do for ( or against ) us? Other thing that worries me is that someone in Germany ( or another more prominent country other than ours) can get out of the wrong side of the bed, say something along the lines of what happened on Friday, and WHAM...............we are looking at another ( at least ) 10 years of austerity. Don't care what anyone says, that cannot be right!

Did she say a "special case" or a "basket case"?

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

I suppose you'll probably tell me that Enda Kenny did'nt know anything about this piece being inserted into the 2011 FG election manifesto:-

Funding Local Government:

[FONT=Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro][FONT=Myriad Pro,Myriad Pro]Fianna Fail’s proposal, now endorsed by the Labour Party, to introduce by 2014 an annual, recurring residential property tax on the family home is unfair. [/FONT][/FONT]

(Maybe he was a bit foolish, too, or coulda be just telling porkies. Actually, Ted, I might have made it all up)

dvpower wrote: »

The ridiculous suggestion that Enda Kenny wasn't aware of what was in his own manifesto.

As I said to you once or twice already, READ THE FULL POST, not just the part that you may think is applicable for the sole purpose of coming back with a hypocritical statement. If, however, you have a problem with your vision, in so far as you genuinely can't see the full text in the post, I apoligize in advance, but you don't have to be embarrassed about it, we all have our little quirks, mine was that I did'nt know what a blog was until a few days ago.

K-9

Hijpo wrote: »

Can you clarify what people should base there votes on if pre election campaigns mean nothing?

maybe we should avoid elections and just pick some names from a hat?

Base it on what a likely coalition will deliver. It was always likely we'd have a FG/Labour coalition so accepting that both parties would compromise on the Croke Park agreement was a reasonable expectation, didn't come as a surprise to me as an example.

We last elected a single party Government 35 years go. Manifestos these days are just mainly aspirations, you have to make an educated guess on what a coalition will agree on as the most important manifesto is the agreed Coalition afterwards.

Its a perfectly logical and practical way of looking at things as that's how Government works in reality, probably why it seems to come as a shock to so many.

Am Chile

A new up to up to date Irish League of Credit Unions survey has being released, lets see what the the findings are.

More
than 1.85m people across Ireland have €100 or less to live on at the end of the
month, once they have paid all their bills.









That
is according to the latest 'What's left' tracker survey from the Irish League of
Credit Unions.

The
figure has risen by 35,000
since the last study in June.

Today's
research also shows 70% of people can't put any money aside as
savings.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/over-185m-living-off-100-or-less-after-bills-are-paid-571347.html

I don,t see how most people in this survey will be able to pay property taxes/water charges when they try Introdice them

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

As I said to you once or twice already, READ THE FULL POST, not just the part that you may think is applicable for the sole purpose of coming back with a hypocritical statement. If, however, you have a problem with your vision, in so far as you genuinely can't see the full text in the post, I apoligize in advance, but you don't have to be embarrassed about it, we all have our little quirks, mine was that I did'nt know what a blog was until a few days ago.

OK. Read the full post. It remains ridiculous for you to suggest that anyone would think that Enda Kenny didn't know about something that was in his own party manifesto.

If you thought a little bit more before pressing the Submit button, then perhaps you wouldn't have to apologise in advance. Or perhaps you should just put your preemptive apologies in your sig.

Am Chile

We seen kite flying about water meter installation to cost homeowners

€800 earlier this year-now there is some kite flying today homeowners might be asked to pay hundreds of euro to replace water pipes

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/homeowners-may-have-to-pay-to-replace-water-pipes-211519.html

Homeowners may have to pay hundreds of euro to replace water
pipes that do not comply with regulations associated with the installation of
meters over the next two years.

Pipes not buried deep enough to accommodate the meters, or those in poor
condition, will have to be replaced when the meters are installed — and the
homeowner is likely to have to foot most or, in some cases, all of the bill.

Death and Taxes

Ghandee wrote: »

A site value tax could rake in millions per year from developers sitting on land banks.

Now, we constantly get told that our houses are fair game as they're 'assets'.

Jimmy property developer, with millions of euro's worth of land, just waiting to be developed would escape paying any 'asset tax' if it isn't a site value tax.

The above reason is why it more than likely won't be site valued.

Jimmy the developer WILL have to pay CGT (an asset tax) if and when he sells the land or builds on it, paddy the homeowner doesnt have to pay CGT if and when he sells.

dvpower

Am Chile wrote: »

We seen kite flying about water meter installation to cost homeowners

€800 earlier this year-now there is some kite flying today homeowners might be asked to pay hundreds of euro to replace water pipes

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/homeowners-may-have-to-pay-to-replace-water-pipes-211519.html

>>>

darkhorse

dvpower wrote: »

OK. Read the full post. It remains ridiculous for you to suggest that anyone would think that Enda Kenny didn't know about something that was in his own party manifesto.

No, ya still did'nt read it. If you did, you would'nt be accusing me of what you are accusing of.

dvpower

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Jimmy the developer WILL have to pay CGT (an asset tax) if and when he sells the land or builds on it, paddy the homeowner doesnt have to pay CGT if and when he sells.

The advantage of a SVT is that Jimmy the developer has to pay to sit on the land without developing it. It encourages him to either develop it (thus investing in it) or sell it (allowing someone else invest in it).

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

No, ya still did'nt read it. If you did, you would'nt be accusing me of what you are accusing of.

Meh.

Am Chile

I see on facebook socialist party rep Ruth Coppinger received her first letter today-when I read the letter it still says you may be liable for the household charge-Ruth and other public reps long ago publicily declared they wouldn,t pay the household tax-as to why they re sending out letters to people who publicily declared they wouldn,t pay stating you may be liable, Im at a loss-if and when they bring public reps to court all they re gonna do is make martyrs of people plus make them gain more votes next local/general election.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=359314780825836&set=a.156425221114794.36425.156398467784136&type=1&theater

washman3

tayto lover wrote: »

Did she say a "special case" or a "basket case"?

No difference really, just gives Noonan the ammo he needs to ride us bareback come December.;)

Le_Dieux

washman3 wrote: »

No difference really, just gives Noonan the ammo he needs to ride us bareback come December.;)

At which time the protests will commence......hopefully! That survey which AC subbed above, should surely pass on the message to Noonan...there is SFA money out there from the average man in the street.

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

At which time the protests will commence......hopefully!

Why wait? Everyone knows that the budget is going to be harsh. If people want to protest against austerity, wouldn't it make more sense to protest before the budget?

Am Chile

The thornhill report with the recommendations for next years property tax is still unreleased hasn,t being made available to the public yet or debated in the dail-the fact this report is still sitting with big phil and no public release of this report proves whatever contents is in it is not gonna go down too well with people.

Le_Dieux

Am Chile wrote: »

The thornhill report with the recommendations for next years property tax is still unreleased hasn,t being made available to the public yet or debated in the dail-the fact this report is still sitting with big phil and no public release of this report proves whatever contents is in it is not gonna go down too well with people.

Maybe because phil is for the chop in December? Surely He's a fall guy if everything goes belly-up!