Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

Ogham

robbie7730 wrote: »

What percentage of their income, does a minimum wage worker pay in taxes?

Would it be higher, or lower than someone on 50k, 100k?

Its a genuine question, for anyone that might answer.

According to http://www.moneyguideireland.com/personal-taxation-levels-in-ireland.html

Someone on average wage pays 17.9% (incl prsi & USC ) – someone on 167% Av wage (about 54k) - the effective rate of taxation is 31.4%

Some intersting figures too on how low the tax on income is here compared to other countries - especially for lower paid.

lugha

Le Dieux wrote: »

Sure Gh, don't You know every td has more than one property?

This is something that has been bugging me for a while. There is a clear attitude of antipathy (or begrudgery, as the Irish flavour is called;)) from some to those who have a second, or even a great many residential properties.

They of course have these because rental accommodation is something for which there is a demand, just as there is a demand for a myriad of goods and services (food, fuel, repairs, maintenance services, professional advice/ guidance etc etc.).

Suppliers come along in our free market economy and meet this demand and in the main, are admired for their entrepreneurial endeavours.

Not so our professional landlords (or even small time operator with one or two houses). The butcher, baker and candlestick maker are earning an honest wage. But the landlord, well he is just a greedy SOB, with his two houses! How come so?

Le Dieux wrote: »

You are an arrogant pompous person, who has an answer for EVERYTHING with regard to any motion against the HHC or the PT.

Lucky you! We have the very opposite problem on our side. We cannot get a satisfactory answer to any question we ask!

Bullseye1 wrote: »

What about your false allegation?

I’m sure Le Dieux does not really think that DV is a TD.

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

It might be better if you did withdraw from the thread if you are going to continue down the personal abuse road - we know where that leads :Pac:

You said yesterday that someone used warped logic in their thinking. I only gave my impression of your arrogance. If it is abuse in your eyes, man just wait until your gang start knocking on the doors looking for votes. You have insulted me in the past, you copy and paste what YOU need to make your point, beling selective is not on in my book.

And you will NOT be getting an apology from me, if what I say is abuse in your eyes.

Something seriously wrong here when a person of your thinking is allowed to post freely, yet a man who spoke a lot of sense is banned.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

A few years ago when they changed it to be based on CO2 ratings - car taxes was slashed for many vehicles.

Oh yeah.

I forgot, it was €102 last year for a band A motor, and it was €160 this year.

A rise of near 54% in one foul swoop.

Great comeback there VD

K-9

Lads cut it out, there is no need to throw insults, both sides are well able to have the banter so if you can dish it, be prepared to get a little back.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

It is still very possible to get a free valuation from an estate agent - they jump at any chance of some business.

But it's not necessary for the SELF assessment property tax. You only need to get a rough value within a 50k band.

Sure everyone appreciates extra businesses. Free business though


Is this really doesnotcompute using your account:pac:

Bullseye1

K-9 just to clarify is it okay for someone like DV to falsely accuse someone of tax evasion?

Ghandee

Bullseye1 wrote: »

K-9 just to clarify is it okay for someone like DV to falsely accuse someone of tax evasion?

Plain to see it would seem.

dxhound2005

Le_Dieux wrote: »

As I understand it Vlad, we get SFA for this property tax. If we were to get free gp, bin collection etc ( what they get up North & across the lake), then I would deem it right to pay.

But to have to pay for nothing, while the haunchos in DE are still milking the system to their heart's content???:mad:

You might be wrong about the GP bit. And any FAQ on the property tax across the lake will tell you that it helps to pay for various things meaning it helps to the extent of about 25%. Most of the rest the rest comes from Income Tax, VAT etc via central government grants to local authorities. And it doesn't pay for water, that costs housholds hundreds of pound over and above their property tax.

http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?nav=2%2C2867%2C3415%2C5949%2C5953

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11402884

What does council tax pay for?
Local services such as planning, transport, highways, police, fire, libraries, leisure and recreation, rubbish collection and disposal, environmental health and trading standards.

It does not pay for health services.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

Much, much lower.

And you have taken into account all taxes have you? Or just income tax?

K-9

Bullseye1 wrote: »

K-9 just to clarify is it okay for someone like DV to falsely accuse someone of tax evasion?

Personally there are terms I wouldn't use like tax evader (or variants of), shills or call posters Government employees either, but it seems some want to persist with them as it's all part of the banter.

darkhorse

donalg1 wrote: »

They were replaced and lo and behold now we have someone moaning about the current govt and saying they will be replaced at the next election.

But, you cant deny that both parties currently in government, was elected into government on false promises, by a very vunerable electorate, although it did help their election tremendously the fact that ff f*cked up big time. You really sound as if nobody has any right to moan and that the people that voted this government in was actually to blame for the way the country has be run since these guys got into power. Your logic is really very interesting.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You might be wrong about the GP bit. And any FAQ on the property tax across the lake will tell you that it helps to pay for various things meaning it helps to the extent of about 25%. Most of the rest the rest comes from Income Tax, VAT etc via central government grants to local authorities. And it doesn't pay for water, that costs housholds hundreds of pound over and above their property tax.

http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?nav=2%2C2867%2C3415%2C5949%2C5953

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11402884

What does council tax pay for?
Local services such as planning, transport, highways, police, fire, libraries, leisure and recreation, rubbish collection and disposal, environmental health and trading standards.

It does not pay for health services.

Again with the lies?

Here's what rate payers get in the north.

What do your rates pay for?

Your rates are made up of the district rate and the regional rate.

District rate

The district rate is fixed annually by each council and the rate will vary from council to council. Income from the district rate is used to meet the costs of providing a range of services.

We provide a range of council services such as:

• bin collections and recycling
• leisure centres
• parks
• events
• council venues
• street cleaning
• economic indicatives
• building control.

Find out what other services we provide

Regional rate

The regional rate is set by Central Government.

Income from the regional rate is used to meet the costs of providing services like:

• education
• health
• personal social services
• housing
• roads
• sewerage
• water.

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/rates/money.asp

Lying doesn't help your cause, in fact it makes you look quite silly, especially when this is about the tenth time you've needed corrected.

I put it to you now DX to give the readers here a list, clearly outlined, what services the hhc or property tax will get us in comparison with the rates system in the north.

If you will not/cannot please refrain from trying to mislead folk on the thread.

There's a good lad.

bgrizzley

At this stage Ghandee all we can do is correct them, and point out when they are misleading the readers of this thread...

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

And you will NOT be getting an apology from me, if what I say is abuse in your eyes.

I'll let you off so - consider the slate wiped clean.

Ghandee

bgrizzley wrote: »

At this stage Ghandee all we can do is correct them, and point out when they are misleading the readers of this thread...

Bg, dx in particular constantly needs reminding and correcting.

Much like a TD:D

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

At this stage Ghandee all we can do is correct them, and point out when they are misleading the readers of this thread...

Well if you are going on this crusade you might want to target this Ghandee fellow. Only a few pages back he again asserted that the government breached their own caps for pay for advisors, despite explicitly conceding way back in thread 2 that technically, they did not.

dxhound2005

Le_Dieux wrote: »

As I understand it Vlad, we get SFA for this property tax. If we were to get free gp, bin collection etc ( what they get up North & across the lake), then I would deem it right to pay.

But to have to pay for nothing, while the haunchos in DE are still milking the system to their heart's content???:mad:

I replied to you a while back. Just to clarify I was talking about "across the lake" which is why I specified that in the reply. I can discuss NI if you wish.

donalg1

darkhorse wrote: »

But, you cant deny that both parties currently in government, was elected into government on false promises, by a very vunerable electorate, although it did help their election tremendously the fact that ff f*cked up big time. You really sound as if nobody has any right to moan and that the people that voted this government in was actually to blame for the way the country has be run since these guys got into power. Your logic is really very interesting.

Where did I say nobody has a right to moan I said people will moan whoever is in power and will act surprised when a govt don't fulfil all their election promises. Political parties exist to get elected at the next election and will feed the electorate whatever line they think will get them elected.

It was clear fg would not be able to deliver on all their pre election promises at the time of the election as ff gave the power to run the country to the lads in Europe long before it. So why people are surprised now is beyond me, my whole post was about the continuous circle of politicians lying to get elected and people moaning when they don't deliver.

donalg1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

In fairness you can move broadband provider without much hassle and there is a vast difference in quality between providers.

Moving local authority means moving house and there is no way of knowing if the new LA in which you have relocated are any better. It's a silly comparison really.

Not really a silly comparison because its not like you can decide to pay less of your monthly charge because your download speed dipped for a while in the middle of the month. Yes you can move provider if your contract is up or if you buy it out but who is to say the New provider will be any better. And what then you decide to pay them less if their speed isn't what you think it should be.

bgrizzley

lugha wrote: »

Well if you are going on this crusade you might want to target this Ghandee fellow. Only a few pages back he again asserted that the government breached their own caps for pay for advisors, despite explicitly conceding way back in thread 2 that technically, they did not.

Ah c'mon Lugha, you must admit they have behaved appallingly since they got in. they spent a multitude of years blathering across the dail about the cronyism of FF and then get in and take it to an all new level.
FG, i am disappoint.

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

Ah c'mon Lugha, you must admit they have behaved appallingly since they got in. they spent a multitude of years blathering across the dail about the cronyism of FF and then get in and take it to an all new level.
FG, i am disappoint.

And this relates to my point about posters re-asserting a "fact" that has earlier been accepted by the poster to be false, how?

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know, I was only telling you about property tax there since you asked me about property tax in other countries. I asked you to tell me about some country with no property tax. Anything for me yet?

No, not yet.

bgrizzley

lugha wrote: »

And this relates to my point about posters re-asserting a "fact" that has earlier been accepted by the poster to be false, how?

i dont know that its a fact or that the poster ascertained it to be so or that he subsequently found same facts to be false. Could you possibly point out the salient posts for my perusal? Many thanks;)

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I replied to you a while back. Just to clarify I was talking about "across the lake" which is why I specified that in the reply. I can discuss NI if you wish.

LD didn't answer you, I did.

Obviously you're so fed up now with me constantly correcting you, you've decided to reply too me via a third party instead of head on.

You constantly compare us to other EU countries and how their property tax systems work (or don't) yet when pulled on how the rates system includes a vast array of services (the least valuable being refuse collection) education, health etc.

Now, you're attempting to compare the rates system from the Cardiff one ffs.

If you insist in comparing other EU states method of property taxation systems, why not compare it with the one that's (literally) on our doorstep?

Bruthal

Ogham wrote: »

According to http://www.moneyguideireland.com/personal-taxation-levels-in-ireland.html

Someone on average wage pays 17.9% (incl prsi & USC ) – someone on 167% Av wage (about 54k) - the effective rate of taxation is 31.4%

Some intersting figures too on how low the tax on income is here compared to other countries - especially for lower paid.

Very good. But that only seems to take the income tax view. Taxes paid are far more widespread than income tax, and the lower the wage, the harder the person is hit with the endless amount of flat rate taxes.

For example, a minimum wage worker, who fills a car with petrol, say €70, will pay 14% of their weeks wages in tax for that single item alone. For someone on 100k, that tank of petrol`s tax amounts to 2% of weeks income.

So include all taxes paid rather than income tax alone, often conveniently the only one compared between high and low earners, as if that is the only tax paid.

lugha

bgrizzley wrote: »

i dont know that its a fact or that the poster ascertained it to be so or that he subsequently found same facts to be false. Could you possibly point out the salient posts for my perusal? Many thanks;)

Well let's wait and see if he denies it first?

While your waiting, maybe you might have a stab at my question as to why there is such disapproval of providers of rental accommodation? (As someone who would appear to hold them in such low regard:))

Le_Dieux

dvpower wrote: »

I'll let you off so - consider the slate wiped clean.

Where are you coming from vd? There isn't a 'slate' to be cleaned. You are the one who is ALWAYS right, everyone else is wrong. Either take the hits or *zip*

dvpower

Le_Dieux wrote: »

You are the one who is ALWAYS right

Thanks. I know.

That's generally considered a good thing.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

But to get an increased level of service, beyond what you get at the moment, surely you'd need to have a higher property tax.

At the moment, what they're doing is stripping out a certain level of central Local Authority funding and replacing it with the property tax. To increase services, you'd need to either increase central funding or increase the property tax, both of which would need to be covered by the tax payer.

So its really only a coincidence that the country is in huge debt from bailout loans, where interest has to be paid, bondholders have to be paid, increments have to be paid, government advisors have to get raises in salary, bankers etc etc etc, all in a global recession. Oh, I see. Anyone would think that they are just taking the last cent from us peasents to pay for all of this, as most of the citizens would have though all this time that the myriad of taxes that we have been paying all our lives was paying for all of these services.