Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 3] *Poll Reset*

tayto lover

Am Chile wrote: »

Post budget-on various Internet forums/facebook threads I see a lot of angry people-it seems to me people want some form of action-just putting forward a suggestion to discuss-besides taking to the streets and marching-what if someone were to set up a facebook page to organise for a certain date for everyone with withdraw all their funds and savings from the banks/credit unions etc to organise a run on financial institutions in Ireland-please discuss what do you people think of a protest of this kind ?

Just hold off on paying your mortgage, e.s.b, gas or even car tax for a month and the system would fairly creak.

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

So do you think if they did cap these large pensions that would solve our problems and we could undo all the austerity measures and bid adieu to property tax?

No but it might pay as much as the Carers respite money. That was just a pure scummy thing to do. I bet it will be reversed too. I am waiting for the Labour lads to jump ship one by one when their consciences kick into gear.

Ghandee

tayto lover wrote: »

No but it might pay as much as the Carers respite money. That was just a pure scummy thing to do. I bet it will be reversed too. I am waiting for the Labour lads to jump ship one by one when their consciences kick into gear.

Civil service pension deficit that needed plugged, €25 million.
Money saved from the respite cuts, €25 million.


Purely coincadental of course.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

And pay 160 quid for 3 channels where 70% of the shows are repeats?

If you cant afford your taxes then:
1. Stay in and dont socialise
2. Get rid of your TV
3. Get rid of your internet
4. Sell your laptop
5. Get rid of your pets
6. Stop smoking

Repeat after me: Live to work, to pay your taxes

Someone with Sky can cancel but keep their dish. That gets more than 3 channels. Have a look here, the F under System Encryption indicates Free To Air.

http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B-2F.html

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Someone with Sky can cancel but keep their dish. That gets more than 3 channels. Have a look here, the F under System Encryption indicates Free To Air.

http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B-2F.html

But what about Boardwalk Empire and Jungle Gold?

How will we watch it now:eek:

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Someone with Sky can cancel but keep their dish. That gets more than 3 channels. Have a look here, the F under System Encryption indicates Free To Air.

http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B-2F.html

Ah lovely, sky news or eastenders hmm theres a difficult situation.

i take it you have free to air because UPC and Sky are not worth the money?
How many of those channels interest you?

tayto lover

T.V. is only good for certain sports, nature programmes and pure comedy like Vincent Browne going to town on Fine Gael T.D.'s
Haven't seen Enda on his show yet.

Ghandee

tayto lover wrote: »

T.V. is only good for certain sports, nature programmes and pure comedy like Vincent Browne going to town on Fine Gael T.D.'s
Haven't seen Enda on his show yet.

This one in particular was gold!

Sounds not great, but VB actually had me in tears that night! (fast forward to 3.45 on for the best part lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70pFmnILJn8

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

Ah lovely, sky news or eastenders hmm theres a difficult situation.

i take it you have free to air because UPC and Sky are not worth the money?
How many of those channels interest you?

What about Russia Today. It will soon be available in HD too, FTA. We have had this before but they gave poor aul Baldy a good going over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-_IR_yNg7c

bgrizzley

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I found a completely legit loophole for the Property Tax. You are exempt if your home is a "mobile home, vehicle or a vessel". I'm getting a caravan.

im just gonna bolt on some wheels under my house...:D


http://www.coolgizmotoys.com/images/2012/07/Raleigh-house-on-wheels-1.jpeg

Bishop_Donal

Anyone do an analysis of the Revenue powers for collection of the Local Property Tax (and Household Charge arrears)?

As Pat McArdle said yesterday morning "they (Revenue) are going to be good at this".

I just hope the 'Don't Register, Don't Pay' crew will be there to support (i.e. to pay the penalties) all of those they convinced to break the law now. A lot of these people used be compliant taxpayers and now they find themselves in this mess.

Ghandee

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Anyone do an analysis of the Revenue powers for collection of the Local Property Tax (and Household Charge arrears)?

As Pat McArdle said yesterday morning "they (Revenue) are going to be good at this".

I just hope the 'Don't Register, Don't Pay' crew will be there to support (i.e. to pay the penalties) all of those they convinced to break the law now. A lot of these people used be compliant taxpayers and now they find themselves in this mess.

Did you not make a suggestion that you would try and avoid paying your dues when it comes to taxes on the budget thread bishop?

Troll failure, instead of winding anyone up now, your just looking a bit silly

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Anyone do an analysis of the Revenue powers for collection of the Local Property Tax (and Household Charge arrears)?

As Pat McArdle said yesterday morning "they (Revenue) are going to be good at this".

I just hope the 'Don't Register, Don't Pay' crew will be there to support (i.e. to pay the penalties) all of those they convinced to break the law now. A lot of these people used be compliant taxpayers and now they find themselves in this mess.

Yes the Revenue will probably have to turn their backs on those "black economy" people who are cleaning up in order to chase up the Property Tax victims.
A good time to be doing nixers no doubt.

Ghandee

Bishopdonal actually favours the tax man 'taking a hit'

Fair point.

TBH, if I was in that zone I'd cut my income to just sub 60k, that way the actual cost would be smaller and the tax man would take the hit instead

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82095623&postcount=1232

Bishop_Donal

Ghandee wrote: »

Did you not make a suggestion that you would try and avoid paying your dues when it comes to taxes on the budget thread bishop?

Troll failure, instead of winding anyone up now, your just looking a bit silly

You can rest absolutely assured that I use any legitimate and lawful option available to me to minimise my tax liabilities.

I'm not a sucker. I stick to the law and pay my share within the rules (which is more than can be said for many who post on this site). Equally I also advocate compliance with the tax rules imposed by our democratically elected government.

If you have ever been under any other illusion, I hope that clarifies the position. I already pay a hell of a lot more than my share & all I want is for the huge numbers of people who only depend on the services and welfare that my taxes are used for, to make some contribution to resolving the mess this country is in.

dxhound2005

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Anyone do an analysis of the Revenue powers for collection of the Local Property Tax (and Household Charge arrears)?

As Pat McArdle said yesterday morning "they (Revenue) are going to be good at this".

I just hope the 'Don't Register, Don't Pay' crew will be there to support (i.e. to pay the penalties) all of those they convinced to break the law now. A lot of these people used be compliant taxpayers and now they find themselves in this mess.

We only have media reports to rely on at present. They say that defaulters could be named in the quarterly lists. Just the normal regulations which apply to tax collection and much less harsh than in some other countries where you could have your house seized in default of property tax.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1207/new-property-tax-bill-gives-revenue-more-powers-business.html

The Revenue Commissioners will also be given power to direct the Minister for Social Protection to deduct the property tax from a liable persons welfare payments. Welfare recipients can also elect to have the tax deducted by the Department of Social Protection.

Revenue can also come after money due under payments to farmers and food producers from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.

And the Minister for Finance is enabled to make orders deducting at source the property tax from any other form of payment from a government department or a state agency.

Because the Local Property Tax will be treated like any other tax due for collection by the Revenue Commissioners, the full range of revenue powers under the 1997 Tax consolidation Act will apply to its collection. This may make those who do not pay and who are subject to settlement proceeding liable to having their name and address published on the Revenue Defaulters List.

Non-payment of the tax will also prevent the issue of a tax clearance certificate

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes the Revenue will probably have to turn their backs on those "black economy" people who are cleaning up in order to chase up the Property Tax victims.
A good time to be doing nixers no doubt.

Funnily enough, I don't think it will actually consume that much Revenue Resource!! It's not that complicated, but we'll see how they get on!

That said, it will probably trigger a full audit of a percentage of the defaulters (as it obviously is flag/trigger re: their approach to compliance). That will certainly detract them from some of their other work or else they'll have to staff up the audit function. However it will probably be profitable (and may catch a share of the folk doing the nixers themselves!!).:D

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Funnily enough, I don't think it will actually consume that much Revenue Resource!! It's not that complicated, but we'll see how they get on!

That said, it will probably trigger a full audit of a percentage of the defaulters (as it obviously is flag/trigger re: their approach to compliance). That will certainly detract them from some of their other work or else they'll have to staff up the audit function. However it will probably be profitable (and may catch a share of the folk doing the nixers themselves!!).:D

Nah. The Black Economy has always thrived in Ireland. Don't we even pay unvouched expenses for lads living beside the Dail and claiming mileage from places as far as Kerry.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Nah. The Black Economy has always thrived in Ireland. Don't we even pay unvouched expenses for lads living beside the Dail and claiming mileage from places as far as Kerry.

Paying unvouched expenses for lads living beside the Dail is not the Black Economy!!!

I neither agree with or support a law that facilitates it, but contrary to your inference, it isn't the Black Economy.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Paying unvouched expenses for lads living beside the Dail is not the Black Economy!!!

I neither agree with or support a law that facilitates it, but contrary to your inference, it isn't the Black Economy.

Not going to argue with you but I believe the 4 th line down describes "unvouched" expenses. I heard a lady yesterday state on the radio that she had worked as a civil servant dealing with mileage claims in the Dail and many of them were unwritten i.e. just a number mentioned to her for the claim. Very shoddy if true.

Five specific underground economies can be identified as Black Economy:
criminal acts
the illegal economy
the unreported economy
the unrecorded economy
the informal economy

bgrizzley

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Funnily enough, I don't think it will actually consume that much Revenue Resource!! It's not that complicated, but we'll see how they get on!

That said, it will probably trigger a full audit of a percentage of the defaulters (as it obviously is flag/trigger re: their approach to compliance). That will certainly detract them from some of their other work or else they'll have to staff up the audit function. However it will probably be profitable (and may catch a share of the folk doing the nixers themselves!!).:D

why would that scare you Donal(and DX)? personally i could care less about a full audit, i have never hid anything from the revenue in my life(and ive heard nothing but good things about the way the conduct their audits).
i still wont pay this tax though.

Hmmm. its strange someone would think its something to be worried about....

Bishop_Donal

bgrizzley wrote: »

why would that scare you Donal(and DX)? personally i could care less about a full audit, i have never hid anything from the revenue in my life(and ive heard nothing but good things about the way the conduct their audits).
i still wont pay this tax though.

Hmmm. its strange someone would think its something to be worried about....

Doesn't scare me in the slightest. If Revenue want to audit me they are more than welcome.

I'm not the one saying 'I still won't pay this tax though'. I don't pick and choose the taxes that suit me. If I did, a pissy little property tax wouldn't be the one I'd be cheating on!!!;)

Am Chile

lugha wrote: »

Most people would lose some or all of their savings. Even sensibly run banks would not be able to cope if all depositors demanded their money back at once.

What do you think such a protest would achieve?

If such a protest were to take place-I think it would make the government a bit worried-one aim-other aims ? I wouldn,t type publicily.

Am Chile

Money people paid towards the household charge in carlow very well spents on councillors expenses-no doubt given the power to set property tax rates they will rise the rates to meet their further expenses .

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Not going to argue with you but I believe the 4 th line down describes "unvouched" expenses. I heard a lady yesterday state on the radio that she had worked as a civil servant dealing with mileage claims in the Dail and many of them were unwritten i.e. just a number mentioned to her for the claim. Very shoddy if true.

Five specific underground economies can be identified as Black Economy:
criminal acts
the illegal economy
the unreported economy
the unrecorded economy
the informal economy

I wouldn't agree with you.

They are recorded properly within the inappropriately lenient rules of the system under which they are claimed. As I understand it, this latitude is afforded in consideration for a lower rate (than that which is allowed for vouched expenses).

You could argue the merits of the cost/benefit (and I'm not privy to the full details - so I'm not going down that road), but at face value I would advocate a system whereby people demonstrate what they are entitled to claim (and claim accordingly).

All that said, still not the Black Economy.

Am Chile

On various Internet threads I read people saying the trade unions here aren,t organising or mobilsing its members on the streets-the only union that was 100 % against the household charge and called for non payment was Unite-but what can we do about the rest of them ?

our trade union officials seem to have no desire or Interest to defend the Interests of its ordinary members- I think the only tactic to use that will motivate trade union officials to act and help its members fight next years property tax is the following- (1) my proposal is for a campaign by the rank and file ordinary union members to threaten to withdraw membership and stop paying membership fees to their union unless they get off fence and resist next years property tax- (2)

I have a second suggestion regarding the trade unions-Anyone who is a SIPTU member, read this carefully, apparently 1 euro from your SIPTU contributions very week goes directly to the Labour party. If you do not want your union fees contributing funds to these working class traiters then go to the SIPTU site and download a form called a POLITICAL FUND EXEMPTION NOTICE and send it back to them. Time to hit these Labour scum in the pocket as they have done to us.

K-9

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We only have media reports to rely on at present. They say that defaulters could be named in the quarterly lists. Just the normal regulations which apply to tax collection and much less harsh than in some other countries where you could have your house seized in default of property tax.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1207/new-property-tax-bill-gives-revenue-more-powers-business.html

The Revenue Commissioners will also be given power to direct the Minister for Social Protection to deduct the property tax from a liable persons welfare payments. Welfare recipients can also elect to have the tax deducted by the Department of Social Protection.

Revenue can also come after money due under payments to farmers and food producers from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.

And the Minister for Finance is enabled to make orders deducting at source the property tax from any other form of payment from a government department or a state agency.

Because the Local Property Tax will be treated like any other tax due for collection by the Revenue Commissioners, the full range of revenue powers under the 1997 Tax consolidation Act will apply to its collection. This may make those who do not pay and who are subject to settlement proceeding liable to having their name and address published on the Revenue Defaulters List.

Non-payment of the tax will also prevent the issue of a tax clearance certificate

The amount would come nowhere near the threshold for publication.

jimmycrackcorm

Am Chile wrote: »

On various Internet threads I read people saying the trade unions here aren,t organising or mobilsing its members on the streets-the only union that was 100 % against the household charge and called for non payment was Unite-but what can we do about the rest of them ?

our trade union officials seem to have no desire or Interest to defend the Interests of its ordinary members- I think the only tactic to use that will motivate trade union officials to act and help its members fight next years property tax is the following- (1) my proposal is for a campaign by the rank and file ordinary union members to threaten to withdraw membership and stop paying membership fees to their union unless they get off fence and resist next years property tax- (2)

I have a second suggestion regarding the trade unions-Anyone who is a SIPTU member, read this carefully, apparently 1 euro from your SIPTU contributions very week goes directly to the Labour party. If you do not want your union fees contributing funds to these working class traiters then go to the SIPTU site and download a form called a POLITICAL FUND EXEMPTION NOTICE and send it back to them. Time to hit these Labour scum in the pocket as they have done to us.

While you're at it - resign from the union too. Unions only exist to keep people in jobs who should be fired.

Bishop_Donal

K-9 wrote: »

The amount would come nowhere near the threshold for publication.

I'd have thought the 'Don't Register, Don't Pay' brigade would have been begging for publication!!

There's one thing for sure imo. You'd be better off not to be caught as a deliberate tax defaulter. But time will tell how that all works out.

pitkan

I've been following this and the previous threads on the household charge and ,really and truely, when you stand back from it and see it for what it is, it must surely rank as the all time number one Irish joke.
It goes like this: "Howya. Listen, we haven't a clue who you are but would you ever mind filling out the form enclosed, now don't forget the dogs name if ya have one, and send it back with 100 euro and we'll get up on your back next year"
Hogan dumped this on Revenue foolishly thinking that this would put an end to the protests he faced everywhere he went.
It seems that there is a new threat every week now as to what Revenue will do.Oddly enough, Mick Wallace, a tax defaulter, is exempt from this household charge so I say Revenue, bring it on, I won't be returning your form next March and this suggests to me that you know as little about us as the ESB and others from which a data base was to be produced.