Deposit % being kept for carpet cleaning/exterior window cleaning/curtain cleaning?

cormie

Just putting this up for someone who has told me that as they are moving out, they are expected to get the carpets and exterior windows cleaned from their own money or else it will be taken from their deposit. The problem is, they are in a 5th floor apartment so both window cleaning and carpet cleaning would cost a few hundred I'm sure. The curtains are also expected to be cleaned. The apartment has a minor mould issue and some mould has spread to one of the curtains.

I had it in my head that as these are general wear and tear on a property and the cleanliness or lack of, of the exterior windows is certainly no responsibility of the tenants. The carpet is as you would expect any carpet to be after 3 years and the curtains, well curtains don't really get anything but general wear and tear and the mould is surely an issue the landlord is responsible for also?

Is it possible that they may have to pay for these things, even if it's in the lease they signed or is it just the agency/landlord trying to chance their arm? Also, what if the lease they signed was only for 12 months and they didn't sign again for the other 2 years?

Any feedback appreciated.

cormie

If anyone has any advice on this, it would be appreciated as they are to move out very soon

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cormie wrote: »

If anyone has any advice on this, it would be appreciated as they are to move out very soon

Contact threshhold.
Its unreasonable

Castlehaven

Jimmy Fast Pentagon wrote: »

Contact threshhold.
Its unreasonable

Requesting the 5th floor windows to be cleaned externally is unreasonable although most standard leases make a tenant liable for window cleaning. It is almost definitely part of the block management companies responsibilities to clean the windows externally and therefore paid for in the service charge by the landlord.

It is not unreasonable to ask a tenant to clean carpets or curtains if they are dirty. Dirt is not fair wear and tear and the PRTB have supported this fact in adjudications.

The landlord has to provide receipts to support any deductions.

cormie

Thanks for the replies.

When you say dirt is not fair wear and tear? What if they are just a bit "old". I mean the tenants in question are all in the habit of taking off their shoes immediately as they come in the front door and they each have their slippers they wear around the house. There are no obvious stains etc, the carpet is probably just not as new looking as it was when they first moved in. Same with curtains.

With regards the landlord providing receipts, I think the tenants believe they have to get all this done themselves and pay for it themselves in order to get the full deposit back, as opposed to the landlord getting it done and deducting. It's rented through an agency also.

JustAThought

I would fat them to go to FLAC & ask. Or, agreed, to ring threshold who are specifically dealing with these issues.

Windows-totally rubbish-5th floor!!? It's a management company issue.

Dirty carpets & curtains covered with mould - sounds reasonable .

If the didn't sign a second or third year lease I think there is a new law that I
Plies they have security of tenure & it's assumed the lease rolls over- they'd have to check if this means they are bound by the original terms. they've had 3 years to sort it out - the day before they loose their deposit is a bit last minute.

Threshold.

Castlehaven

JustAThought wrote: »

I would fat them to go to FLAC & ask. Or, agreed, to ring threshold who are specifically dealing with these issues.

Windows-totally rubbish-5th floor!!? It's a management company issue.

Dirty carpets & curtains covered with mould - sounds reasonable .

If the didn't sign a second or third year lease I think there is a new law that I
Plies they have security of tenure & it's assumed the lease rolls over- they'd have to check if this means they are bound by the original terms. they've had 3 years to sort it out - the day before they loose their deposit is a bit last minute.

Threshold.[/Quote

In the absence of a lease the 2004 Residential Tenancies act still applies. The act is always superior to any lease. The tenants will also have gained the protection of a Part 4 tenancy as soon as the first 6 months of the initial lease had elapsed

They would be bound by the terms in the original lease (except any fixed term lease restriction) as long as those terms are in accordance with the 2004 RTA and not contrary to their statutory rights.

Cleaning issues are always very subjective and hard to prove. Personally if I had tenants who had been in a property for three years, and had behaved well, and assuming cleaning was not extreme I would just accept the cleaning cost myself.

It is always better to have a property professionally cleaned (with a receipt) since this is a provable level of cleanliness at the start of a tenancy.

djimi

External window cleaning of an apartment block is the responsibility of the management company.

Carpet/curtain cleaning expenses can only be claimed where the damage/dirt is beyond normal wear and tear.

This landlord is quite obviously trying to pull a fast one. Get plenty of pictures of the state of the place, and then contact Threshold for advice. Make it known to the landlord that you are fully prepared to lodge PRTB case if necessary.

cormie

Thanks again for the input everyone. So I guess the question is, what is considered beyond normal wear and tear?

djimi

Stains, tears, excessive dirt etc. I dont know if there is an official definition of "normal wear and tear" but imagine yourself what you would consider to be acceptable degredation over the period of time!

cormie

Yeah and I believe that the condition of the carpet is actually very good considering it's been 3 years since a cleaning. The fact everyone removes their shoes within a meter of the front door makes a big difference and there's no wine stains or tears or anything like that either. Same with the curtains bar a bit of mould but this itself may be considered fault of the building itself?

Sulla Felix

Any mould would be due to improper ventilation/insulation, no?

cormie

Yeah, mould growing around windows etc I believe is a ventilation issue and is the responsibility of the landlord from what I know?

Milk & Honey

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Any mould would be due to improper ventilation/insulation, no?

A lot of it is due to occupant behaviour. Running washing machines and dryers with the windows closed and in some cases blocked up causes a lot of mould.

djimi

cormie wrote: »

Yeah, mould growing around windows etc I believe is a ventilation issue and is the responsibility of the landlord from what I know?

Did you inform the landlord of the problem? They can only be held liable for issues that they have been made aware of! The tenant is actually liable for such issues if they made no effort to get them rectified.

cormie

I'm not sure if the landlord was informed on the mould issue. The mould can be cleaned off the curtains anyway and the place will be given a good clean before being vacated. Just want to make sure for the tenants that they aren't being asked to do unreasonable, costly things.

sunnysoutheast

cormie wrote: »

Yeah, mould growing around windows etc I believe is a ventilation issue and is the responsibility of the landlord from what I know?

The rental agreement we have with our tenant states that the they must "...keep the property at all times well and sufficiently aired and warmed during the tenancy." and I have seen similar in pretty much every other contract I've seen. Difficult to say without seeing but drying clothes etc. throws a huge amount of vapour into the air and if this has caused damage to the curtains then I'd say the tenant could be at least partially liable. We once had tenants who closed every wall and trickle vent in the house and also blocked up the chimney. When they moved out we had to repaint several of the walls because of condensation staining.

As for cleaning, I'd suggest that what is "reasonable" depends on what was done prior to move-in. Only if the place was (demonstrably) professionally cleaned then the landlord is right to expect cleaning to the same standard on moving out.

I don't see how the tenant is liable for external window cleaning as this should be done on a block basis and, effectively, included in the rent every month.

SSE

cormie

Thanks for your input. The mould issue was there when the tenant I know moved in, in place of another tenant who isn't the lease holder. It was cleaned and the person in particular ALWAYS has the windows open but there's now a tiny bit on one of the curtains. Will be easy to clean anyway.

I think it's been established that they are no way responsible for the exterior window cleaning, now we'll have to see if the state of the carpet can be down to wear and tear. The curtains can get a quick wipe.

BostonB

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for your input. The mould issue was there when the tenant I know moved in, ...

The LL needed to be informed of this and a record kept of such communication.

cormie

I'm not sure if there was anything said between tenant and agency about the mould so if they have to clean the curtains properly, so be it. Just as long as the carpets and windows aren't there's to worry about