Hanover Quay Dublin 2 Brothel how to resolve!

MrsF2011

Hi I am a resident in Hanover Quay Dublin 2 a quite nice area of the city centre. We are home owners and have a big mortgage on our 2 bed apartment bought in 2009. Love the area close to work (IFSC) crèche (2 small children) etc so no complaints before now apart from the odd noise pollution now & then. Up until this week when a brothel started operating out of one of the apartments in our block. I know what evidence do I have it's a brothel but trust me ITs LEGIT a brothel!!!! Suspicious chartacters loitering outside the communal areas, new tenants who are eastern European girls meeting them and returning to apartment this routine is continuous throughout the day. In fact one punter stopped me and asked for directions to our apartment block I showed him thinking it may have been a friend visiting a neighbour but out comes one of these girls bare footed a brief introduction followed before they both headed inside. I have reported to mgt co but I don't know what apartment number they are in so I don't know what else can be done about it. I'm disgusted to say the least I have 2 small children who play in the communal & external areas ( under full supervision of course) but to think what sort of characters this is going to attract to our home makes me sick not to mention how this compromises our children's safety and the security of the development. Just looking for some advice. Thank you.

Doom

I'm sure the Gardai have a vice branch, ring the bigger stations.

ABajaninCork

I would have a word with the Gards, and let the MC know you've spoken with them. See where you stand.

Slydice

Maybe record it using the camera on your phone (from a safe place) and bring the recording to the gardai? Might make your case stronger.

okiss

Are you friendly with any other apartment owners in the building?
I would tell them what you have noticed as they could have noticed also and they may be able to tell you what apartment this going on in.
They may even know the owner of the apartment. No apartment owner will want this going on in there apartment.

I would contact Pearse Street Garda Station. The public office number for here is 666 9040. If you need to go further with this the Chief Superintendent here is Michael O'Sullivan and his offices number is 1 666 9092
I got the above information from www.garda.ie.

MrsF2011

Thank you all for your advice this matter has kept me awake all night I am sick that this type of activity is on our door step. The area is either family or professional orientated I am surprised that the landlord/ letting agency would not become suspicious of such tenants when first letting the property I'd be curious to know what vetting they excercised.

Im am going to report to Guards today and also put flyers in all the communal post boxes urging residents to report such suspicious activity no matter how small to the MC and Guards. I spoke to one neighbour who was going to contact local newspaper to try and expose this activity.

Hopefully enough awareness will be raised and the tenants will be exposed and removed as soon as possible!

ABajaninCork

MrsF2011 wrote: »

Thank you all for your advice this matter has kept me awake all night I am sick that this type of activity is on our door step. The area is either family or professional orientated I am surprised that the landlord/ letting agency would not become suspicious of such tenants when first letting the property I'd be curious to know what vetting they excercised.

Im am going to report to Guards today and also put flyers in all the communal post boxes urging residents to report such suspicious activity no matter how small to the MC and Guards. I spoke to one neighbour who was going to contact local newspaper to try and expose this activity.

Hopefully enough awareness will be raised and the tenants will be exposed and removed as soon as possible!

I would be very careful about putting out flyers. I don't doubt what you say is true, but you may lay yourself open to libel (or worse). I would report the matter to the Gards and the management co., and leave it at that.

Corkbah

MrsF2011 wrote: »

Thank you all for your advice this matter has kept me awake all night I am sick that this type of activity is on our door step. The area is either family or professional orientated I am surprised that the landlord/ letting agency would not become suspicious of such tenants when first letting the property I'd be curious to know what vetting they excercised.

Im am going to report to Guards today and also put flyers in all the communal post boxes urging residents to report such suspicious activity no matter how small to the MC and Guards. I spoke to one neighbour who was going to contact local newspaper to try and expose this activity.

Hopefully enough awareness will be raised and the tenants will be exposed and removed as soon as possible!

ha ha .... the person is probably trying to sell the story to the papers.

As with putting flyers into communal boxes - you are then informing the actual apartment that you suspect something is going on so they can simply lay-low for a while if they wish.

best of my understanding of the law is that its not illegal for two consenting adults to have sex, if a girl meets a guy near her apartment and invites him in ..no issue legally, if this happens regularly - its not breaking the law - if it was there would be loads of college students arrested for having loose virtues.

the law has not yet changed to criminalise the buyer of sex so for the time being they are perfectly entitled to do what they do - unless the gardai perform a sting operation - which is very unlikely for a newly set-up brothel, for the time being the best thing you can do it report it to Gardai and let them do what they can over the coming weeks and months (dont expect anything to change quickly...investigations take time and need to jump through legal and due process in order to get a conviction)

jesus_thats_gre

From what I can gather, this has happened at one stage or another in virtually every apartment development in the city. I have seen the apartments across the road from work being raided by the Gardai a few times in the past year or two.

Just report it and follow up on it until it is sorted. I wouldn't be getting too worked up about as visitors to these types of places literally just want to get in and get out as quickly as possible - and unnoticed at that.

07734

One small bit of advice; don't be too visible as the person trying to get them out, it might cause an unpleasant reaction from the people behind it. Call the Gardai and leave it at that. Definitely not flyers!

JustAThought

I would get the gaurds involved and INSIST that they follow up - apparently you have to go down to the station to make a complaint in writing - " ours" won't do it over the phone but will pretend to - so there's no follow up possible or history of complaints. So go down .& make a formal complaint.

I would ask people about the house number first - you can't complain properly if you don't know who or wherethe issue is from.
here's a solution I had for a local problem. I set up an email account ( estate name @ gmail.com) did up a flier asking for responses ( my name was not on it) & put it in all the doors one evening in my estate. I got a few abusive emails & over 80 supportive responses & a lot of info I would never have got otherwise. & I got our local problem fixed.

What I would also ask for from the gaurds is a few community watch stickers. I would put them on the entrance to the appartment block ( & no - I wouldn't bother setting up a community watch). And then I would print off a few signs & stick them up on tbd access doors & lampposts -
Brothel-Watch. All suspicious activity being recorded. Images & car registrations being handed to the gaurds daily.

That should put a few of the " customers" off.

Did you contact Rhuana?

A Primal Nut

If it is just a small operation (the two girls advertising themselves online) then I would say a hint of gardai involvement might be enough to put them off. As the previous poster said, those Brothel Watch signs would definitely scare the customers off. Would be could to get some other residents involved rather than doing it all yourself though (for safety reasons).

djimi

I lived next to a brothel for a while. Your best option is to get onto the Gardai; they will have a unit set up for this, will almost certainly be aware of it, and will be glad of any evidence that you can provide for them.

Chances are however these people will not want to stay put for long. Id be amazed if they dont pack up and leave after a few months.

One thing I will say is do not under any circumstances start making this a personal project and trying to drum up the support of neighbours or whatever; you have no idea what these people are like and it is not worth the consequences of the possible repurcussions. Its my experience that these people will want to remain as low key as possible and aside from the coming and goings Id be amazed if you know that they are there; get in contact with the Gardai if you wish but do not be seen to be doing anything more than that.

Victor

Corkbah wrote: »

best of my understanding of the law is that its not illegal for two consenting adults to have sex, if a girl meets a guy near her apartment and invites him in ..no issue legally, if this happens regularly - its not breaking the law - if it was there would be loads of college students arrested for having loose virtues.

Prostitution, by itself, is not an offence. However, it would appear that other offences are being committed, including brothel keeping. It will also be contrary to the lease on the property.

ibebanging

Live and let live. Everyone's entitled to make a living.

fiacha

Corkbah wrote: »

the law has not yet changed to criminalise the buyer of sex so for the time being they are perfectly entitled to do what they do - unless the gardai perform a sting operation - which is very unlikely for a newly set-up brothel, for the time being the best thing you can do it report it to Gardai and let them do what they can over the coming weeks and months (dont expect anything to change quickly...investigations take time and need to jump through legal and due process in order to get a conviction)

Spot on.

There are very few appartment blocks in the city that have not had at least one escort service running from it.
I wouldn't worry about your safety. I'd imagine 99% of men going to an escort for sex are not peadofiles or rapists. The other 1% are just as big a risk to you anywhere on the street.

The appartments are often owned by "pimps" / agencies and are sublet to escorts or other "pimps".
Even if the working girls were involved in renting the property, they are unlikely to have met the agent wearing fishnets and a rubber skirt so there would be no indication that the new tenant was up to no good:D

The situation you have described sounds like the typical setup used by organised prostitution gangs. The girls get moved around from location to location. It's worth remembering that many of these girls are traffic'd and are not involved in prostitution by choice, so they deserve to be treated with some compassion. No harm in putting up posters warning residents about men hanging around the block, but I wouldn't mention prostitution or the women you have seen.

Keep track of dates / times of men coming and going (pardon the pun) and keep sending details to the management company and the Gardai. The vice squads do keep track of escorts / agencies and will send someone around to check it out. As posted above, the guards can't do anything unless there are more than two girls working there. The more people reporting it to the gardai, the better.

I used to help out with a group providing support to prostitutes, so I've seen plenty of these setups in operation all over the city.


Don't loose sleep over it, there are probably more agencies / independent girls working in your block that you haven't noticed. Don't listen to the Joe Duffy brigade claiming that there will be hoards of perverts roaming the halls looking to molest every woman or child they meet.

murphaph

ibebanging wrote: »

Live and let live. Everyone's entitled to make a living.

I support legalisation and regulation of the sex industry. However, it is a commercial activity/business and no more than you can open a beauty salon, massage parlour or tanning studio in a random apartment in a residential development (without PP that you will, quite rightly, never get) you simply can't open a brothel in a residential development. It's just not on.

I'm sure if I opened some business next door to your home that resulted in all manner of commercial visitors calling at all hours of the day or night, you'd have a problem with it too.

StillWaters

Whilst prostitution is not illegal, brothel keeping and pimping is, so this is a criminal matter for the Gardai. Other than reporting it to the Gardai and MC, I wouldn't do much else. Less than savoury characters are behind these operations.

mikemac1

Call up the Legion of Mary

They'll sort out an angry crowd with some crucifixes and placards and will drive the sinners and hussies outta town

Worked for the Monto

MrsF2011

fiacha wrote: »

Spot on.

There are very few appartment blocks in the city that have not had at least one escort service running from it.
I wouldn't worry about your safety. I'd imagine 99% of men going to an escort for sex are not peadofiles or rapists. The other 1% are just as big a risk to you anywhere on the street.

The appartments are often owned by "pimps" / agencies and are sublet to escorts or other "pimps".
Even if the working girls were involved in renting the property, they are unlikely to have met the agent wearing fishnets and a rubber skirt so there would be no indication that the new tenant was up to no good:D

The situation you have described sounds like the typical setup used by organised prostitution gangs. The girls get moved around from location to location. It's worth remembering that many of these girls are traffic'd and are not involved in prostitution by choice, so they deserve to be treated with some compassion. No harm in putting up posters warning residents about men hanging around the block, but I wouldn't mention prostitution or the women you have seen.

Keep track of dates / times of men coming and going (pardon the pun) and keep sending details to the management company and the Gardai. The vice squads do keep track of escorts / agencies and will send someone around to check it out. As posted above, the guards can't do anything unless there are more than two girls working there. The more people reporting it to the gardai, the better.

I used to help out with a group providing support to prostitutes, so I've seen plenty of these setups in operation all over the city.


Don't loose sleep over it, there are probably more agencies / independent girls working in your block that you haven't noticed. Don't listen to the Joe Duffy brigade claiming that there will be hoards of perverts roaming the halls looking to molest every woman or child they meet.

I spoke with Guards today they basically said there was nothing they could do YET what with the apartment number not established, and they would rather "catch them in the act" than turn up unannounced. They did say they had received complaints from other residents so hopefully someone in the building will be able to come forward with the apt number sooner rather than later. They will also contact the MC to raise awareness of allegations of suspicious illegal activity being carried out within the development. I hope this adds weight to my complaint and from what ive heard there is CCTV footage within the complex which maybe able to pinpoint the apartment.

I agree these girls are probably trafficked and nothing but a drop in the ocean compared to the large organised ring they are most likely recruited by. These girls are aged between 16-18 years of age there is no way they would be able to afford to rent one of these properties unless business was thriving of course and if it was I doubt they were the ones pocketing the cash. They look like they couldn't even boil a egg let alone live by themselves unsupervised.

"live and let live" ? @ibebanging How would you like this going on next door while you have 2 young children under 4 yrs? not to mention my husband is away at least once a month Im not saying Im going to be attacked or anything but its very unsettling to know this is going on only yards from my home. Sure my first encounter with one of these girls was when I caught her peering through my 3 yr olds bedroom window!! I am in a grou level unit so we have our own front door etc, and there looking through the window was a strange looking girl. To be fair to her she was on her phone and looked lost I went outside to see if she needed help or was looking for a neighbour but she just walked up the street talking on her phone. She passed by again an hour or so later this time more interested in the units across from me, and with a number of break ins around here over the summer I thought this could be a potential break in or something that could lead to one. It was only in the days that followed when the Brothel came to light and I seen this girl again acting "suspiciously" with a male I came to the rather obvious conclusion that she was involved.

So getting back to a comment of "live and let live" I'm sorry but creepy prostitute peering in my 3 year old daughters window NOT EXCEPTABLE regardless if your a prostitute or not it's just not on and very unsettling.

burstbuckle

Don't forget to post the number of the apartment when you find out

Victor

burstbuckle wrote: »

Don't forget to post the number of the apartment when you find out

Constructive posts only please.

You do realise that you were just soliciting for an under-age prostitute?

Moderator

Victor

MrsF2011 wrote: »

These girls are aged between 16-18 years of age

Make sure you mention this to the gardaí, however, telling ages can be difficult.

MrsF2011

Indeed I did mention this to the guards. Ages are hard to tell as I know some can look alot younger than they actually are but these girls looked the same age as some of other residents school and college going daughters. I guess all I can do now is await for response from MC on the matter. With nearly 3k paid a year in mgt fees I do hope they try and resolve.

djimi

I wouldnt have thought that it would be hard to establish the apartment number? It was pretty obvious with my neighbours; noone has that many different visitors throughout the day and night

gosuckonalemon

MrsF2011 wrote: »

"live and let live" ? @ibebanging How would you like this going on next door while you have 2 young children under 4 yrs? not to mention my husband is away at least once a month Im not saying Im going to be attacked or anything but its very unsettling to know this is going on only yards from my home. Sure my first encounter with one of these girls was when I caught her peering through my 3 yr olds bedroom window!regardless if your a prostitute or not it's just not on and very unsettling.

#

Why do you think that men who are having consenual sex (albeit for money) have any interest in your young children? I think you are thinking of paedophiles.

Prostitutes are used by people from all backgrounds including judges, doctors and even the gardai. People who have sufficent incomes to be able to splash 150-200e in a half hour.

Don't panic. This is a common issue in city centre complexes. They will be gone in a couple of months to another complex.

Out of interest how has it not been possible to find out the number?

djimi

Our place was eventually vandalized by someone who decided to spray Hookers Out all over the front of the building. While the apartment itself generally kept to themselves, and in fairness most of the blokes who frequented the place appeared to want to remain as low key as possible, there were some times when there were some very dodgy characters hanging around, and considering the unwanted attention a brothel could attract from both undesirable punters and also the likes of whoever decided to deface our building, Id say its not really the kind of thing you want going on in the place where you live.

If it was as simple as two concenting adults having intimate relations then it wouldnt be a problem, but it is far from being as black and white as that. I can guarantee that anyone who lived beside a brothel would not have the attitude live and let live...

MrsF2011

I'm not by no means having a go at prostitutes here and my issue is not with whether they are consenting adults or not. Call me old fashioned but I just don't want to be living under a brothel. I have seen the punters come and go and I admit they were all clean cut i.e. they didn't scream out pedophile stereotype I'm basically saying this is a residential area please leave. Who would want to live on the door step of a brothel by choice? True there are brothels all over the city operating out of residential areas but surely that doesn't constitute me and residents here turning a blind eye and accepting the issue as norm? Am I that naive to complain?

As I said myself and the other residents are ground level occupants so basically visitors loiter outside our doors when entering and leaving the building once they are inside we wouldn't know what apt they are visiting as we don't have access. Right now we are depending on the residents inside the block to establish the floor and apt number. I believe several reports have been made to the Guards other than those I already know about so maybe these reports may have been more informative.

Agent Smith

Are you sure its a brothel?


They could just be very into their sex parties.

morebabies

I too have young children, and though I feel the utmost compassion for the prostitutes who may be caught in a vicious cycle of dependence on their pimps for drugs/money, I too would hate to be living beside a brothel, and I would be as desperate as the OP to get it closed.

Would I be naive to think there is also a strong possibility drugs would be on the premises too? I know in every apartment complex some residents will have drugs in their homes, but would I be wrong to automatically assume drugs and brothels go hand in hand. Genuine question here - correct me if I'm wrong.

Victor

morebabies wrote: »

but would I be wrong to automatically assume drugs and brothels go hand in hand. Genuine question here - correct me if I'm wrong.

I think there would be a mixed bunch.

Certainly many 'street' prostitutes are heavily involved in drugs.

Shelli2

I have to visit GNIB on Burgh Quay quite regularly due to the nature of my job, they have lots of posters up about the trafficking of underage women in the sex industry and how to report it, it might be worth checking out. If i'm there over the next few days i'll try to remember to get the details for you, but if you are passing just go into the main waiting area and you can see the posters yourself.

Victor

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's not 2007 anymore!


Take those prices and halve them and it's still above average

So I'm told

Constructive, on-topic posts only please.

Moderator