Alex Ferguson on Ferdinand and Roberts

flyswatter

So Sir Alex Ferguson has been having a go at Jason Roberts during the week for not supporting the Kick It Out campaign by wearing their shirt.

Rio Ferdinand has now decided not to wear it in protest against (presumably similarly to Roberts) the lack of care being taken against racism in the game recently. Ferguson is very embarassed about this and not pleased with his player.

What do people feel about this? I respect the two players decisions not to wear the shirt and think that Roberts especially is to be applauded for making his point known.

Dozen Wicked Words

Kick It Out is a charity, what would you, or Ferdinand and Roberts have them do?

So why did they refuse to wear the charity's t-shirt.

Not being cynical: Ferdinand and Roberts aren't very bright and don't understand that Kick it Out cant sanction players, teams or anyone else in any shape or form as they aren't in the FA, Premier League or any other hierarchy.

Cynical version: Ferdinand isn't very bright and Roberts is angling for a career after he finishes playing.

jenno86

I can't stand Jason Roberts.


That will be all.

PhlegmyMoses

dooferoaks wrote: »

Kick It Out is a charity, what would you, or Ferdinand and Roberts have them do?

So why did they refuse to wear the charity's t-shirt.

Not being cynical: Ferdinand and Roberts aren't very bright and don't understand that Kick it Out cant sanction players, teams or anyone else in any shape or form as they aren't in the FA, Premier League or any other hierarchy.

Cynical version: Ferdinand isn't very bright and Roberts is angling for a career after he finishes playing.

Correct. Kick It Out get £300,000 a year in funding. As I said on the United thread, if Ferdinand was serious about this, he would have explained his position and either got involved with KIO and helped to change their mandate as well as contributing some of his cash. As it is, by not saying anything, his stance looks petty and confused. Ferguson is also right to be upset with him. From his conference the previous day, it suggest that Ferdinand never bothered to let Ferguson know what his position on this was.

CSF

From what I can gather, the lads are doing this to make a point as to how players aren't sufficiently protected from the powers that be when it comes to racial abuse.

I would imagine they're a little disappointed at there not being strong enough public criticism from the charity at the shoddy bans for 2 lads found guilty (please don't make this into an argument over whether Suarez/Terry were guilty, I'm not saying they were, I'm saying the bans were pathetic for someone who was found guilty)

To be honest I'm a little bit disappointed there hasn't been more people taking a stand. Racist abuse is the kind of thing I'd be expecting at least a 6 month ban for, and the argument of 'he said something racist but he isn't a racist' should be punishable by the electric chair.

Bodhisopha

To call a black man a "choc-ice" as Ferdinand did in a round about way is more offensive than calling a black man a "little negro" or a "black cnut". If anything, the campaign should've discouraged him from wearing the shirt.

As for Roberts, he's just trying to make a name for himself.

Leiva

Bodhisopha wrote: »

To call a black man a "choc-ice" as Ferdinand did in a round about way is more offensive than calling a black man a "little negro" or a "black cnut". If anything, the campaign should've discouraged him from wearing the shirt.

As for Roberts, he's just trying to make a name for himself.

No it is not.

CSF

Bodhisopha wrote: »

To call a black man a "choc-ice" as Ferdinand did in a round about way is more offensive than calling a black man a "little negro" or a "black cnut". If anything, the campaign should've discouraged him from wearing the shirt.

Bull****. The term wigger is used commonly with ****all stigma.

MUSEIST

The problem I have with this is that I am genuinely confused as to what point ferdinand is trying to make, does he even know

CSF

MUSEIST wrote: »

The problem I have with this is that I am genuinely confused as to what point ferdinand is trying to make, does he even know

Why should he promote a charity who haven't done enough to support his brother in a time of need?

Dozen Wicked Words

CSF wrote: »

Why should he promote a charity who haven't done enough to support his brother in a time of need?

Supporting his brother is the PFAs job. Irregardless, if Ferdinand wants to make a point, he should have the balls to tell his manager before the manager goes on national television and says his players will be wearing the t shirts.

The Reading manager Brian McDermott:

"Jason has had a very strong view of it and I respect Jason's view," he told Sky Sports News. "It was important to him what he did today. I 100 per cent back him."


Suprised Fergie isn't giving his player the same level of support tbh.

Leiva

Gill

Mikeyt086

lol Rio is just givin' Fergie a nuva merkin' innit. lol Fergie u got well merked blad.

MUSEIST

rarnes1 wrote: »

The Reading manager Brian McDermott:

"Jason has had a very strong view of it and I respect Jason's view," he told Sky Sports News. "It was important to him what he did today. I 100 per cent back him."


Suprised Fergie isn't giving his player the same level of support tbh.

Just like ferdinand it's not exactly clear what his point is. Is he saying the charity are not doing enough and thus having a go at them or is it a point against the fa and bans not being long enough/

Red Crow

Bodhisopha wrote: »

To call a black man a "choc-ice" as Ferdinand did in a round about way is more offensive than calling a black man a "little negro" or a "black cnut". If anything, the campaign should've discouraged him from wearing the shirt.

As for Roberts, he's just trying to make a name for himself.

lol

CSF

dooferoaks wrote: »

Supporting his brother is the PFAs job. Irregardless, if Ferdinand wants to make a point, he should have the balls to tell his manager before the manager goes on national television and says his players will be wearing the t shirts.

Fair enough on the Fergie communication thing. He probably kept it quiet knowing Fergie wouldn't let him not wear one.

So what do this charity do then? Other than get footballers to wear t-shirts? I'd have certainly been expecting them to expressing their disgust at the FAs treatment of the issue and I'm sure Rio and co figured they'd be getting this support last time they wore tshirts in support.

I mean, really, what is the point in having all the Premiership players wear tshirts when the issue isn't even taken seriously.

Mr Magnolia

John Terry roared to Rio's brother in the most derogatory manner and SAF is embarrassed because Rio refused to wear a t-shirt.

There's a mind-shift required.

mosstin

dooferoaks wrote: »

Supporting his brother is the PFAs job. Irregardless, if Ferdinand wants to make a point, he should have the balls to tell his manager before the manager goes on national television and says his players will be wearing the t shirts.

Bull****. Why should a black player support a token organisation that the FA seemingly support in order to give the impression that they're doing something about racism? Why should ALL players have to wear the t-shirt just because SAF says so? He dug his own hole on this one.

CSF

MUSEIST wrote: »

Just like ferdinand it's not exactly clear what his point is. Is he saying the charity are not doing enough and thus having a go at them or is it a point against the fa and bans not being long enough/

Do you really want Rio in the media more talking about this? Should Joleon, Kenwynne, Gareth & co all give interviews too? I think people would be complaining just as much if they were playing this out vocally in the media tbh.

The general footballing world really doesn't take racism very seriously and that is portrayed equally clearly on this forum.

Jayob10

Kick it out is a box ticking exercise by the suits in the FA

You can just imagine someone in the FA ticking the box- "Fund kick it out, solve racism problem, check"

They are basically paying the black players lip service in the "fight against racism", so I say fair play to Ferdinand and Roberts for refusing to go along with this bullsh*t exercise the FA run to make themselves sleep easier at night.

Its all just for show and nothing is really being done when you see that the former national team captain getting off with a slap on the wrists despite being caught on camera.

The media are also getting on the bandwagon too, expressing faux pas "outrage" at any racism, referring to Luis Suarez at any opportunity as near poster boys for racism in British football.

For most, its just an exercise that they have to been seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing anything about the problem.

MUSEIST

CSF wrote: »

Do you really want Rio in the media more talking about this? Should Joleon, Kenwynne, Gareth & co all give interviews too? I think people would be complaining just as much if they were playing this out vocally in the media tbh.

The general footballing world really doesn't take racism very seriously and that is portrayed equally clearly on this forum.

Are you for real. Has the last year not actually happened in your world. The constant media reaction to the suarez and terry incidents show that racism is taken extremely seriously by the greater footballing world in england. Some might say the response to both incidents was disporportionate to what actually happened when you consider the other things and abuse which goes on in football. The fa has clear rules about how long they can ban players for, if a player has a problem with that then they should call for longers bans publicly instead of refusing to wear an anti racism charities logo before a game which to me seems rather pointless.

Jayob10

MUSEIST wrote: »

Are you for real. Has the last year not actually happened in your world. The constant media reaction to the suarez and terry incidents show that racism is taken extremely seriously by the greater footballing world in england. Some might say the response to both incidents was disporportionate to what actually happened when you consider the other things and abuse which goes on in football. The fa has clear rules about how long they can ban players for, if a player has a problem with that then they should call for longers bans publicly instead of refusing to wear an anti racism charities logo before a game which to me seems rather pointless.

the outrage was nothing but a load of posturing to be honest. A competition to show who was the most outraged.

Its more important to be seen to be outraged as opposed to actively seeking solutions.

Just because they are not throwing banana's onto the pitch like the Serbian's doesn't mean they are any more refined.

The whole Danny Rose episode was more an opportunity to brag about how "we are not like this in the UK", more than anything.

CSF

MUSEIST wrote: »

Are you for real. Has the last year not actually happened in your world. The constant media reaction to the suarez and terry incidents show that racism is taken extremely seriously by the greater footballing world in england. Some might say the response to both incidents was disporportionate to what actually happened when you consider the other things and abuse which goes on in football. The fa has clear rules about how long they can ban players for, if a player has a problem with that then they should call for longers bans publicly instead of refusing to wear an anti racism charities logo before a game which to me seems rather pointless.

For every tabloid trying to sell a few more papers there's a gigantic army of people on Internet forums who try to treat racist abuse has something thrown around by the PC brigade, and then those slightly less ridiculous who treat it in the same bracket as like a bad tackle or something.

Then you have the national association who think racist abuse is worthy of only a 4 match ban, and an international association who think hundreds of fans roaring racist abuse is less bad than revealing your Paddy Power boxers.

MUSEIST

CSF wrote: »

For every tabloid trying to sell a few more papers there's a gigantic army of people on Internet forums who try to treat racist abuse has something thrown around by the PC brigade, and then those slightly less ridiculous who treat it in the same bracket as like a bad tackle or something.

Then you have the national association who think racist abuse is worthy of only a 4 match ban, and an international association who think hundreds of fans roaring racist abuse is less bad than revealing your Paddy Power boxers.

Fair enough but how does not wearing a 'kick it out' campaign t-shirt in any way change any of that.

~Rebel~

MUSEIST wrote: »

Fair enough but how does not wearing a 'kick it out' campaign t-shirt in any way change any of that.

Well, for a start, people are talking about it.

I don't know if this was in any way their intention, but this has gotten the movement far more publicity than simply wearing the tshirts would have.

mosstin

MUSEIST wrote: »

Fair enough but how does not wearing a 'kick it out' campaign t-shirt in any way change any of that.

Why should he promote something he doesn't believe in and that, as a black footballer, he sees as making not a whit of difference to the issue of racism in England?

GavRedKing

Storm in a tea cup TBH.

Fergie might have a private word with him but other then that nothig will happen.

Vertigo100

Simple fact that fergie isn't happy about is that Ferdinand obviously didn't make it clear he wouldn't wear it. I doubt it rio had said during the week he wouldn't wear it. If he did fergie wouldn't have said what he said at Fridays press conference.

Dempsey

To me, it looks like Ferguson was looking for an excuse to fall out with Ferdinand! If this was Rio Ferdinand in his prime, would Ferguson be passing comments like that in front of the media? I dont think so tbh

Winston Payne

Dempsey wrote: »

To me, it looks like Ferguson was looking for an excuse to fall out with Ferdinand! If this was Rio Ferdinand in his prime, would Ferguson be passing comments like that in front of the media? I dont think so tbh

Do managers commonly try and fall out with their own players?

Dempsey

Winston Payne wrote: »

Do managers commonly try and fall out with their own players?

Ferguson has made a good stab at it over the years.

Tis gas that he feels embarrassed by someone that is not supporting a charity like kick it out because his brother was the victim of racism by another professional footballer.

Winston Payne

The embarrassment is that Ferdinand thinks his fit of pique takes higher precedence over the game standing together on the issue.

Dempsey

Winston Payne wrote: »

The embarrassment is that Ferdinand thinks his fit of pique takes higher precedence over the game standing together on the issue.

Seems that he and other professional players see it as a hollow gesture in light of recent events. Maybe they are highlighting that not enough is being done. The 4 match ban for Terry was a joke tbh, should have been twice that at least. Why should they feel embarrassed when the suits have let people off lightly. They are full of shíte when it actually comes to disciplining players.

EDIT

Remember that Rio's international career was ruined by this aswell

Winston Payne

Dempsey wrote: »

Seems that he and other professional players see it as a hollow gesture in light of recent events. Maybe they are highlighting that not enough is being done. The 4 match ban for Terry was a joke tbh, should have been twice that at least. Why should they feel embarrassed when the suits have let people off lightly. They are full of shíte when it actually comes to disciplining players.

There's better ways of going about it. Work with Kick It Out. They aren't big, funded to the princely sum of £300K. Would have been nice today if everybody, each and every footballer, came together for that message.

Will I Amnt

Dempsey wrote: »

To me, it looks like Ferguson was looking for an excuse to fall out with Ferdinand! If this was Rio Ferdinand in his prime, would Ferguson be passing comments like that in front of the media? I dont think so tbh

Sounds plausible alright.......……in batshìt crazy land!!!
Do you seriously think Fergie was sitting back waiting for something like this to justify dropping/moving on Ferdinand???
He's hardly well known for his sentimental side in fairness.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

Do you really want Rio in the media more talking about this? Should Joleon, Kenwynne, Gareth & co all give interviews too? I think people would be complaining just as much if they were playing this out vocally in the media tbh.

The general footballing world really doesn't take racism very seriously and that is portrayed equally clearly on this forum.

Er, of course Rio should have talked about this. If he feels the campaign is toothless then he should be saying that rather than making ambiguous statements by not wearing a t-shirt. Instead what he has done is got people talking about how he has disrespected Ferguson.

Terry was despicable in that situation. But the Ferdinands have been really poorly advised in how they've dealt with it too.

Dempsey

Winston Payne wrote: »

There's better ways of going about it. Work with Kick It Out. They aren't big, funded to the princely sum of £300K. Would have been nice today if everybody, each and every footballer, came together for that message.

Thats your opinion, they see it differently and I think they should be supported in their stance that the PFA isnt doing enough for players. Remember that its the PFA asking the players to wear these t-shirts.

Dempsey

cambo2008 wrote: »

Sounds plausible alright.......……in batshìt crazy land!!!
Do you seriously think Fergie was sitting back waiting for something like this to justify dropping/moving on Ferdinand???
He's hardly well known for his sentimental side in fairness.

No but that and his performance today could be the straw that broke the camels back! Not every rant/decision by Ferguson was/is on the money.

PhlegmyMoses

Dempsey wrote: »

Thats your opinion, they see it differently and I think they should be supported in their stance that the PFA isnt doing enough for players. Remember that its the PFA asking the players to wear these t-shirts.

They've gone about it in a real childish way. It reminds me of the Suarez t-shirt situation or the Team Bridge nonsense of a few years ago.

They had an opportunity to start a real debate about racism, the mandate of the PFA and the KIO initiative and all they've done is petty nonsense like posting on Twitter about choc ices and made a man with a lot of clout who would support such a debate, Ferguson, to look like a mug by clealry not opening a dialogue with him about what their plans were.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Er, of course Rio should have talked about this. If he feels the campaign is toothless then he should be saying that rather than making ambiguous statements by not wearing a t-shirt. Instead what he has done is got people talking about how he has disrespected Ferguson.

Terry was despicable in that situation. But the Ferdinands have been really poorly advised in how they've dealt with it too.

What do you want him to do though? Call a press conference?

Will I Amnt

Dempsey wrote: »

No but that and his performance today could be the straw that broke the camels back! Not every rant/decision by Ferguson was/is on the money.

So he was just waiting since today??

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

What do you want him to do though? Call a press conference?

Maybe? It's a pretty important issue. A radio interview, a newspaper interview, an interview with Sky Sports. Anything. A chat with Ferguson outlining how strongly he feels about it before Ferguson goes to that press conference might have helped.

It's like Ferdinand has lost sight of the issue and thinks that going renegade is the right idea. It really isn't. Open dialogue and honesty in the public forum is the only way forward here.

Brain Stroking

CSF wrote: »

I mean, really, what is the point in having all the Premiership players wear tshirts when the issue isn't even taken seriously.

I think that is Ferdinand's and Roberts' point bang on the head. It is a valid one too.

Whether they could have made their point differently is another story.

Dempsey

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

They've gone about it in a real childish way. It reminds me of the Suarez t-shirt situation or the Team Bridge nonsense of a few years ago.

They had an opportunity to start a real debate about racism, the mandate of the PFA and the KIO initiative and all they've done is petty nonsense like posting on Twitter about choc ices and made a man with a lot of clout who would support such a debate, Ferguson, to look like a mug by clealry not opening a dialogue with him about what their plans were.

The opportunity isnt lost, its demonstrated that how it is not being dealt with properly. It has highlighting further that punishments arent fitting the crimes when it comes to racism.

Maybe Ferguson should have opened dialogue with Ferdinand before having a go at Roberts in the media. Maybe he knew that Ferdinand wasnt going to listen to him, much like he hasnt listened to him over his twitter account and trying to best manage the situation to his advantage.

Brain Stroking

Winston Payne wrote: »

There's better ways of going about it. Work with Kick It Out. They aren't big, funded to the princely sum of £300K. Would have been nice today if everybody, each and every footballer, came together for that message.

But the message is meaningless given recent events. It is, as someone has already pointed out, lip-service and nothing else.

Dempsey

cambo2008 wrote: »

So he was just waiting since today??

No, he's hardly sentimental is what I meant. The rift with Beckham didnt happen over night though

Will I Amnt

Dempsey wrote: »

No, he's hardly sentimental is what I meant. The rift with Beckham didnt happen over night though

It was pretty obvious he wasn't happy with how Beckham conducted himself off the pitch.
There was nothing to suggest he was waiting on something like this to have it out with Ferdinand.

Winston Payne

Brain Stroking wrote: »

But the message is meaningless given recent events. It is, as someone has already pointed out, lip-service and nothing else.

That's an issue for the game's legislators. Addressing that issue will take both pressure and unity. I don't think the cause was served by what happened today.

Dempsey

cambo2008 wrote: »

It was pretty obvious he wasn't happy with how Beckham conducted himself off the pitch.
There was nothing to suggest he was waiting on something like this to have it out with Ferdinand.

It wasnt long ago that Ferguson was at odds with him over his use of twitter and now this. You couple that with his comments about Roberts, even go back to his 'Dalglish sacked over Luis Suarez row' comments and you have a manager with a bruised ego looking to avoid being embarrassed by his own players or the club being embarrassed by a player. Ferdinand clearly isnt one for moving on the issue and I think it will be a case of him supporting his brother over what Man Utd thinks is best for him if he is pushed some more on this issue. The hairdryer treatment wont work here!

Cienciano

Fair play to rio and roberts. Fergie should never of commented on roberts,was none of his business