Alex Ferguson on Ferdinand and Roberts

Dempsey

Winston Payne wrote: »

Do managers commonly try and fall out with their own players?

Ferguson has made a good stab at it over the years.

Tis gas that he feels embarrassed by someone that is not supporting a charity like kick it out because his brother was the victim of racism by another professional footballer.

Winston Payne

The embarrassment is that Ferdinand thinks his fit of pique takes higher precedence over the game standing together on the issue.

Dempsey

Winston Payne wrote: »

The embarrassment is that Ferdinand thinks his fit of pique takes higher precedence over the game standing together on the issue.

Seems that he and other professional players see it as a hollow gesture in light of recent events. Maybe they are highlighting that not enough is being done. The 4 match ban for Terry was a joke tbh, should have been twice that at least. Why should they feel embarrassed when the suits have let people off lightly. They are full of shíte when it actually comes to disciplining players.

EDIT

Remember that Rio's international career was ruined by this aswell

Winston Payne

Dempsey wrote: »

Seems that he and other professional players see it as a hollow gesture in light of recent events. Maybe they are highlighting that not enough is being done. The 4 match ban for Terry was a joke tbh, should have been twice that at least. Why should they feel embarrassed when the suits have let people off lightly. They are full of shíte when it actually comes to disciplining players.

There's better ways of going about it. Work with Kick It Out. They aren't big, funded to the princely sum of £300K. Would have been nice today if everybody, each and every footballer, came together for that message.

Will I Amnt

Dempsey wrote: »

To me, it looks like Ferguson was looking for an excuse to fall out with Ferdinand! If this was Rio Ferdinand in his prime, would Ferguson be passing comments like that in front of the media? I dont think so tbh

Sounds plausible alright.......……in batshìt crazy land!!!
Do you seriously think Fergie was sitting back waiting for something like this to justify dropping/moving on Ferdinand???
He's hardly well known for his sentimental side in fairness.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

Do you really want Rio in the media more talking about this? Should Joleon, Kenwynne, Gareth & co all give interviews too? I think people would be complaining just as much if they were playing this out vocally in the media tbh.

The general footballing world really doesn't take racism very seriously and that is portrayed equally clearly on this forum.

Er, of course Rio should have talked about this. If he feels the campaign is toothless then he should be saying that rather than making ambiguous statements by not wearing a t-shirt. Instead what he has done is got people talking about how he has disrespected Ferguson.

Terry was despicable in that situation. But the Ferdinands have been really poorly advised in how they've dealt with it too.

Dempsey

Winston Payne wrote: »

There's better ways of going about it. Work with Kick It Out. They aren't big, funded to the princely sum of £300K. Would have been nice today if everybody, each and every footballer, came together for that message.

Thats your opinion, they see it differently and I think they should be supported in their stance that the PFA isnt doing enough for players. Remember that its the PFA asking the players to wear these t-shirts.

Dempsey

cambo2008 wrote: »

Sounds plausible alright.......……in batshìt crazy land!!!
Do you seriously think Fergie was sitting back waiting for something like this to justify dropping/moving on Ferdinand???
He's hardly well known for his sentimental side in fairness.

No but that and his performance today could be the straw that broke the camels back! Not every rant/decision by Ferguson was/is on the money.

PhlegmyMoses

Dempsey wrote: »

Thats your opinion, they see it differently and I think they should be supported in their stance that the PFA isnt doing enough for players. Remember that its the PFA asking the players to wear these t-shirts.

They've gone about it in a real childish way. It reminds me of the Suarez t-shirt situation or the Team Bridge nonsense of a few years ago.

They had an opportunity to start a real debate about racism, the mandate of the PFA and the KIO initiative and all they've done is petty nonsense like posting on Twitter about choc ices and made a man with a lot of clout who would support such a debate, Ferguson, to look like a mug by clealry not opening a dialogue with him about what their plans were.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Er, of course Rio should have talked about this. If he feels the campaign is toothless then he should be saying that rather than making ambiguous statements by not wearing a t-shirt. Instead what he has done is got people talking about how he has disrespected Ferguson.

Terry was despicable in that situation. But the Ferdinands have been really poorly advised in how they've dealt with it too.

What do you want him to do though? Call a press conference?

Will I Amnt

Dempsey wrote: »

No but that and his performance today could be the straw that broke the camels back! Not every rant/decision by Ferguson was/is on the money.

So he was just waiting since today??

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

What do you want him to do though? Call a press conference?

Maybe? It's a pretty important issue. A radio interview, a newspaper interview, an interview with Sky Sports. Anything. A chat with Ferguson outlining how strongly he feels about it before Ferguson goes to that press conference might have helped.

It's like Ferdinand has lost sight of the issue and thinks that going renegade is the right idea. It really isn't. Open dialogue and honesty in the public forum is the only way forward here.

Brain Stroking

CSF wrote: »

I mean, really, what is the point in having all the Premiership players wear tshirts when the issue isn't even taken seriously.

I think that is Ferdinand's and Roberts' point bang on the head. It is a valid one too.

Whether they could have made their point differently is another story.

Dempsey

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

They've gone about it in a real childish way. It reminds me of the Suarez t-shirt situation or the Team Bridge nonsense of a few years ago.

They had an opportunity to start a real debate about racism, the mandate of the PFA and the KIO initiative and all they've done is petty nonsense like posting on Twitter about choc ices and made a man with a lot of clout who would support such a debate, Ferguson, to look like a mug by clealry not opening a dialogue with him about what their plans were.

The opportunity isnt lost, its demonstrated that how it is not being dealt with properly. It has highlighting further that punishments arent fitting the crimes when it comes to racism.

Maybe Ferguson should have opened dialogue with Ferdinand before having a go at Roberts in the media. Maybe he knew that Ferdinand wasnt going to listen to him, much like he hasnt listened to him over his twitter account and trying to best manage the situation to his advantage.

Brain Stroking

Winston Payne wrote: »

There's better ways of going about it. Work with Kick It Out. They aren't big, funded to the princely sum of £300K. Would have been nice today if everybody, each and every footballer, came together for that message.

But the message is meaningless given recent events. It is, as someone has already pointed out, lip-service and nothing else.

Dempsey

cambo2008 wrote: »

So he was just waiting since today??

No, he's hardly sentimental is what I meant. The rift with Beckham didnt happen over night though

Will I Amnt

Dempsey wrote: »

No, he's hardly sentimental is what I meant. The rift with Beckham didnt happen over night though

It was pretty obvious he wasn't happy with how Beckham conducted himself off the pitch.
There was nothing to suggest he was waiting on something like this to have it out with Ferdinand.

Winston Payne

Brain Stroking wrote: »

But the message is meaningless given recent events. It is, as someone has already pointed out, lip-service and nothing else.

That's an issue for the game's legislators. Addressing that issue will take both pressure and unity. I don't think the cause was served by what happened today.

Dempsey

cambo2008 wrote: »

It was pretty obvious he wasn't happy with how Beckham conducted himself off the pitch.
There was nothing to suggest he was waiting on something like this to have it out with Ferdinand.

It wasnt long ago that Ferguson was at odds with him over his use of twitter and now this. You couple that with his comments about Roberts, even go back to his 'Dalglish sacked over Luis Suarez row' comments and you have a manager with a bruised ego looking to avoid being embarrassed by his own players or the club being embarrassed by a player. Ferdinand clearly isnt one for moving on the issue and I think it will be a case of him supporting his brother over what Man Utd thinks is best for him if he is pushed some more on this issue. The hairdryer treatment wont work here!

Cienciano

Fair play to rio and roberts. Fergie should never of commented on roberts,was none of his business

PhlegmyMoses

Dempsey wrote: »

The opportunity isnt lost, its demonstrated that how it is not being dealt with properly. It has highlighting further that punishments arent fitting the crimes when it comes to racism.

Maybe Ferguson should have opened dialogue with Ferdinand before having a go at Roberts in the media. Maybe he knew that Ferdinand wasnt going to listen to him, much like he hasnt listened to him over his twitter account and trying to best manage the situation to his advantage.

In this situation, there is one person who knows what their plans are and another who can only guess what the other's plans are, that is if he even suspects that the other person has plans in the first place. The person who knows what the their plans are is the one who should open the dialogue.

I wasn't overly happy with Ferguson's handling of the Roberts thing but that is a footnote now. The real issue is racism in football. If Ferdinand actually wants to make a difference, let's hear his ideas on how we can change things.

What kind of mandate does he want KIO to have? What does he feel they have done wrong? Will he start his own campaign using the huge monetary resources available to him and his fellow black professionals?

As it stands, it's a guessing game. He is most likely annoyed about the Terry thing. That's cool but it's time to get past that and start focusing on trying to improve things.

Corholio

To be fair I can see where everybody is coming from in this case.

Roberts is taking a stand against what he sees as inaction from the F.A. on racial issues, the F.A.'S 'face' in terms of racial issues is Kick It Out, so he took a stand against them.

Ferdinand has obvious family reasons for it.

Ferguson has his opinion on it of course. Just speculating, but I wonder if United as a club had agreed to wear the t-shirts, and then Ferdinand for some reason went against it and this shows United up a bit. He has legitimate reason to be angry here if that is the case.

In fairness, Roberts does a lot of work for charity and I'm sure he didnt just go about this stance lightly. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

Kirby

Dempsey wrote: »

Tis gas that he feels embarrassed by someone that is not supporting a charity like kick it out because his brother was the victim of racism by another professional footballer.

You have missed the point completely. Racism, charity, kick it out...............absolutely nothing to do with Fergie's annoyance. Zilch.

It's about the fact that he announced to the world that X was going to happen during a press conference and than Rio turned around and did Y. That is what he means when he says he was embarrassed. It made him look foolish and not in control. That's what the problem is. The lack of communication. He is blaming Rio for not telling him first. And he has a point.

newballsplease

Ny man woman or child has a right to stand up to their own beliefs. SAF is wrong in this case in saying that he expected Rio to wear the Kick it out shirt.
If the man doesnt believe that its not doing any good then dam right he should make a stance.
"he will be dealth with"? Such a threat by ur manager, seriously?

Im a utd fan all my life but in this case im going totally against fergie.

Yes he made him look bad after what fergie said in his conference but surely it shoulda been known by then that rio wouldnt wear the shirt.

No excuses for racism in football and EVERYTHING possible should be done to either highlight it and ban it.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Maybe? It's a pretty important issue. A radio interview, a newspaper interview, an interview with Sky Sports. Anything. A chat with Ferguson outlining how strongly he feels about it before Ferguson goes to that press conference might have helped.

It's like Ferdinand has lost sight of the issue and thinks that going renegade is the right idea. It really isn't. Open dialogue and honesty in the public forum is the only way forward here.

Unnecessary. There will be plenty of papers in touch with him now and he will be able to put his point forward, assuming Fergie allows him.

CSF

Kirby wrote: »

You have missed the point completely. Racism, charity, kick it out...............absolutely nothing to do with Fergie's annoyance. Zilch.

It's about the fact that he announced to the world that X was going to happen during a press conference and than Rio turned around and did Y. That is what he means when he says he was embarrassed. It made him look foolish and not in control. That's what the problem is. The lack of communication. He is blaming Rio for not telling him first. And he has a point.

Well Fergie really shouldn't have gone telling the media things he didn't know. He made himself look the fool.

FatherTed

Dempsey wrote: »

Seems that he and other professional players see it as a hollow gesture in light of recent events. Maybe they are highlighting that not enough is being done. The 4 match ban for Terry was a joke tbh, should have been twice that at least. Why should they feel embarrassed when the suits have let people off lightly. They are full of shíte when it actually comes to disciplining players.

EDIT

Remember that Rio's international career was ruined by this aswell

Also, Hodgson backed Terry and refused to call up Rio Ferdinand so as to not upset England's lionheart. It's a bit funny now that the FA are complaining about the dispicable actions by Serbia in the game during the week. When they had this Terry case and the Suarez case they took their sweet time and didn't give much punishment. They have no problem giving an 8 month ban to Ferdinand for missing a drug test yet just 4 games for JT...:rolleyes:

CSF

FatherTed wrote: »

Also, Hodgson backed Terry and refused to call up Rio Ferdinand so as to not upset England's lionheart. It's a bit funny now that the FA are complaining about the dispicable actions by Serbia in the game during the week. When they had this Terry case and the Suarez case they took their sweet time and didn't give much punishment. They have no problem giving an 8 month ban to Ferdinand for missing a drug test yet just 4 games for JT...:rolleyes:

It's actually a sad indictment of modern football that cheating in football matches is considered a significantly worse crime than racial abuse.

jive

CSF wrote: »

It's actually a sad indictment of modern football that cheating in football matches is considered a significantly worse crime than racial abuse.

Well with cheating in football you have to consider the $$$$, with racism you must consider sticks and stones etc. You could argue that the lawww and feeeeelings and eeeemotions are more important than money but then I could argue that you're very idealistic.

The one time I'll agree with Platini on something - racism is a societal problem. Sure you can dish out the bans left, right and centre but it won't change anything. People must remember that a lot of footballers are absolute simpletons, trying to get them to change in any way is like pissing against the wind. As that tit Platini said, it's a societal problem.

CSF

jive wrote: »

Well with cheating in football you have to consider the $$$$, with racism you must consider sticks and stones etc. You could argue that the lawww and feeeeelings and eeeemotions are more important than money but then I could argue that you're very idealistic.

The one time I'll agree with Platini on something - racism is a societal problem. Sure you can dish out the bans left, right and centre but it won't change anything. People must remember that a lot of footballers are absolute simpletons, trying to get them to change in any way is like pissing against the wind. As that tit Platini said, it's a societal problem.

Simplifying racist abuse as being merely to do with feelings and emotions is way off the mark, I mean what isn't? Every crime has a victim or else nobody would care.

So what if racism is a societal problem? That's no reason to not come down on racist abusers like a tonne of bricks. Even if it doesn't fix the problem it'll still give the culprits the punishment they deserve.