Residents fees

Snoopy1

Quick question
Ive just moved into a rented house.
Got a leaflet through thr letter box yesterday, saying a number of people hadnt paid the 100 euro for the residents association.
Now do I have to pay this or is up to the landlord?

Snakeblood

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Quick question
Ive just moved into a rented house.
Got a leaflet through thr letter box yesterday, saying a number of people hadnt paid the 100 euro for the residents association.
Now do I have to pay this or is up to the landlord?

I would have thought it was for the landlord, tbh.

Elvis_Presley

Nobody has to pay - it's a resident's association (may be populated by busy-bodies). Management fees must be paid. Have fun dealing with this - either cough up a hundred quid or piss your new neighbours off. Landlord isn't going to pay anything non-compulsory.

djimi

If it was me Id ignore it, but it might be worth finding out who they are and what you get for the €100. Maybe check with your landlord; it may be something that they are happy to pay each year (unlikely).

Snoopy1

Elvis_Presley wrote: »

Nobody has to pay - it's a resident's association (may be populated by busy-bodies). Management fees must be paid. Have fun dealing with this - either cough up a hundred quid or piss your new neighbours off. Landlord isn't going to pay anything non-compulsory.

I definitely do not want to cough up 100 euro.
It said they would be calling rpund to houses so im just not going to answer my door

djimi

They can call round all they want; most likely its just a group of local residents who are trying to get money out of people to cut the grass etc. Its not a legal thing and you dont have to pay. If they start getting lippy pass them the details of your landlord and tell them to contact the property owner.

Cedrus

Residents association contributions and membership of them are voluntary if they hassle you unduly report them to AGS, if you live in a nice estate, enjoy it, use it, and you want to keep it that way, pay up or chase your landlord to pay, it takes a lot to maintain green spaces.

I you like living in an overgrown ****hole with litter tumbling around in the wind, don't pay the

Elvis_Presley wrote: »

busy-bodies

and go back to your playstation.

ted1

100 is a pricey residents association. 20 quid would be the norm.

mikemac1

Ask them what it's for

A workmate lives in Lucan and the very active residents association holds a summer barbeque for the adults and games for the children a few times over the summer.

Sounds great but not everyone wants to pay for these

The money might be getting wasted or it might be something important to you OP

Cedrus

ted1 wrote: »

100 is a pricey residents association. 20 quid would be the norm.

TBH there is no norm, some estates need next to no maintenance, some which were built in the boom, were laid out just to sell houses with fancy shaped greens and loads of exotic planting which take a huge amount of expensive care.

Snoopy1

The leaflet says its for grass cutting and twice a year they organise something.
Thing is there is hundreds of houses on this estate so 100 seems quite a lot.
If I paid and theu could do something about people reserving car parking spaces with their wheely bin then id happily pay. But for 2 meet and greets, then im not bothered

L1011

ted1 wrote: »

100 is a pricey residents association. 20 quid would be the norm.

20 might be the norm if you have a very small amount of grass and nothing more.

Estate I'm in is 50. Parents estate with more grass and trees to be concerned with is 75.

ted1

MYOB wrote: »

20 might be the norm if you have a very small amount of grass and nothing more.

Estate I'm in is 50. Parents estate with more grass and trees to be concerned with is 75.

Get a couple of sheep, free grass cutting and free meat for end of summer BBQ. Win win

Lantus

RA' are voluntary but they quite often do a very good job and all the time and effort put into it is all done for FREE (that means people dont get paid.)

We make a huge effort to collect in our estate. We collect primarily just for the grass as we have so much of it. Even with a team of people it takes hours and hours to knock on doors, go back when people are not in or go back to collect if people dont have the money there.

Then there are the meetings and talking to the community garda and dealing with the council and the residents....

Theres a sliding scale of people in any estate. You get people who are willing to get stuck in and help out for the good of the community in any way they can and always donate, there are the majority (hopefully) who will often pay the fee but cannot or are unwilling to help out. And then there are those who want to neither contribute or help out but are ever so good at complaining that nothing gets done or if something does get done it hasn't been done good enough to meet their high standards.

I once had somone slam a door in my face because a leaflet was delivered a bit late and (IHHO) didn't offer sufficient time for him to prepare. And that was a nice example. The fact I had been walking around for hours and was frozen goes unseen. People see the few seconds of you and dont realise the hours and hours of work behind the scenes. Its a thankless job made better by people who appreciate it and seeing that more people are enjoying the +ve benefits. Its made worse by idiots and selfish people who dont want to pay or lift a finger but want to bend your ear as to the many crimes you have comitted by cutting the grass to 45mm instead of 35mm height.

I dont like the idea of Landlords being responsible for this as its not the same as a management fee which is a legal agreement.

Renters often are of an opinion that they are not part of the community and I find it terribly frustrating as they enjoy all the same amenities, walk their dogs, their kids play on the greens etc. There is some social distortion that makes them disconnect with things like this. Take a step into an apartment and its like boarding a spaceship off to another planet as far as many are concerned.

Still, encouragement and moving forward. Why not spend an hour with the RA going over the costs and see hoe it benefits you. Walk around the grass areas. there may be much more than the bit you drive past to get to your house. Envisage how much work there would be in maintaining it.

And be thankful that someone has given two hoots to do it for nothing.

Penny Dreadful

Snoopy1 wrote: »

The leaflet says its for grass cutting and twice a year they organise something.
Thing is there is hundreds of houses on this estate so 100 seems quite a lot.
If I paid and theu could do something about people reserving car parking spaces with their wheely bin then id happily pay. But for 2 meet and greets, then im not bothered

You could write to the head of the association and say that €100 is too much for you to pay and you can contribute X.
Also, if you have a problem that you'd like to have discussed at a meeting (such as the one you've mentioned above) why not attend? Its not fair to leave all of the work to a few people.
It might also be a good way to meet some of your neighbours. Who knows you might actually like them.

mikemac1

Lantus wrote: »

Renters often are of an opinion that they are not part of the community and I find it terribly frustrating as they enjoy all the same amenities, walk their dogs, their kids play on the greens etc. There is some social distortion that makes them disconnect with things like this. Take a step into an apartment and its like boarding a spaceship off to another planet as far as many are concerned.

Understandable though, some owners look down on renters

And renters can live in an estate for years and get zero say in anything.

When my bike got vandalized I contacted the councillor who gave me copies of letters to the superintendent.
I was on to the councillor about getting garda patrols which we had but were cut back and had feedback on closing off the shortcut through our estate favoured by kids knacker drinking

Doing more then many owners tbh

I can't attend any meetings held by the management company, I can't vote on anything but the landlord who moved out 4 years ago can.
Renting four years but it wouldn't matter if I was renting 4 months, I'm still a renter and management company won't listen to me.

I can email the management agent alright but it's 50/50 if I even get a reply.

Residents committees are slightly different as anyone can get involved but still, there will be some who will dismiss the opinion of a renter
Who are you??

Paulw

Mikemac1 - there is a massive difference between a management company and a resident's association. A management company is a legal entity with members and responsbility. The management company must answer to it's members, who are the unit owners.

If you want to attend management company AGM and vote, then why not ask your landlord (if he is not attending) if you could attend as his proxy (he will need to complete a proxy form for this). That way, you can have a voice and a vote.

Otherwise, you have no say. Your lease is with your landlord, and any issues are directly between you and your landlord.

If there are management company issues, then the company must deal with the landlord, as a member of the company.

But, a resident's association is just a group of people getting together for a common goal. They have no power and no legal standing. They don't have to respond to anyone and don't have to answer to anyone.

mikemac1

Of course there is a difference

But my post wasn't about legal points

I quoted the post about renters not giving a damn

Agent Smith

Let the Landlord Pay


I wouldnt pay anything like that unless i owned the house.


Say you move out in 2 months, would you get a refund?

the_syco

Depends on a couple of things;
How long do you intend on staying there?
Do you walk around the estate?
Do you use the green areas?
Do you have kids?

The RA in my estate ask for €65 (about 400 houses in my estate) but some of the old folk only give €20. For that, all the green areas get cut two or three times a year, the trees get pruned and/or radically cut back if they're causing people hassle or blocking out the street lights. They mulch the remains, and the mulch into the flower areas. Also, once a year the volunteers go around the estate cleaning up the grass from the cracks in the road, other the general items.

They also put the signs up to stop people letting their dogs foul on the green areas where kids play, and have installed a path to replace a "muddy shortcut" trail.

djimi

My main issue with such fees is that in the case of the example above, 400 houses at €65 a pop comes to €26000, and even if you consider that only maybe half the houses will actually pay, thats still well in excess of €10000. While I appreciate that people need to be paid for their time and effort, thats an awful lot of money to collect for getting the grass cut and a bit of a tidy up.

Lantus

mikemac1 wrote: »

Of course there is a difference

But my post wasn't about legal points

I quoted the post about renters not giving a damn

It would be wrong to say that renters dont give a damm. Many are incredibly enthusiastic about where they live and get stuck in. In terms of an RA as an OMC as pointed out is a very different kettle of fish. Many long term renters just dont get involved compared to owners. People dont move about that much that a years worth (and mainly the summer) of a donation to the RA should be seen as something to get out of.

djimi wrote: »

My main issue with such fees is that in the case of the example above, 400 houses at €65 a pop comes to €26000, and even if you consider that only maybe half the houses will actually pay, thats still well in excess of €10000. While I appreciate that people need to be paid for their time and effort, thats an awful lot of money to collect for getting the grass cut and a bit of a tidy up.

Well half is a great result! I know of some large estates where 10% to 20% is considered very good as a return. A 100 houses at averge €40 might be a better guess which is around 4k for the above estate not the lofty 10k plus figures you seem to 'imagine' they are collecting. Again in the absence of real data guessing is a very dangerous game.

You have many people out who are very hard to contact, people who dont have money and ask you to come back and some who wont give plus the usual houses that are vacant etc. Its a massively time consuming job for any volunteer who goes around collecting. One of the toughest.

In terms of money it costs a lot but its subject to the grass areas. Hiring machines and the fuel can be expensive. If you need ride one's then you usually need push mowers and strimmers as well due to way grass is laid out in an estate. fuel is expensive these days.

If they are paying for a contractor to do the work 10k wont get you very far for a medium to large bit of grass.

People have a perception that a few k' wll go a long way but it is easily swallowed up and then you have people wanting BBQ's and playgrounds installed all from the same cash reserve.

Until you have budgeted and undertaken a cost exercise its all just finger in the air activites so I always advise people not to 'guess' that something seems like a lot or a little unless they have actual data to support such a statement. People are often surprised at just how much simple grass cutting and a clean up can be. They often always overestimate how much money is collected.

Cedrus

There seems to be a huge underestimation of the effort which goes into maintaining an estate, people who cut the few square metres of their garden dismiss it as bit of grass cutting without ever considering that the public areas are measured in hectares not metres, the plants that have to be replaced when broken by their angelic children also have to be 3-4 times the size that they would put in the average garden at 6-8 times the cost.
As said above fuel is expensive and so is insurance which we all have to pay.

djimi

Lantus wrote: »

People have a perception that a few k' wll go a long way but it is easily swallowed up and then you have people wanting BBQ's and playgrounds installed all from the same cash reserve.

Until you have budgeted and undertaken a cost exercise its all just finger in the air activites so I always advise people not to 'guess' that something seems like a lot or a little unless they have actual data to support such a statement. People are often surprised at just how much simple grass cutting and a clean up can be. They often always overestimate how much money is collected.

Is this information made available to residents in the area? Does someone actually sit down and keep accounts and records of how much the services cost compared to how much money is brought in?

Lantus

djimi wrote: »

Is this information made available to residents in the area? Does someone actually sit down and keep accounts and records of how much the services cost compared to how much money is brought in?

Good question. It really depends on the people within the association and their approach. Their ability to keep records and good accounts of all their expenditure and the appointment of a treasurer role.

There is no legal requirement to show residents this info and often most are not bothered. If the grass gets cut then the 20/40/60 you donated was money well spent.

If you are interested you should be able to request this from your association and there is no good reason why they wouldn't want to explain it all to you and show records. The best place to do this is a AGM or meeting where they can make documents available and answer questions to a wide group as dealing one to one can be very time consuming. Aproach your chairman and ask about this if you or several others are interested.

We always publish what we collected to everyone and details of all our costs are made available to everyone.

L1011

mikemac1 wrote: »

I was on to the councillor about getting garda patrols which we had but were cut back and had feedback on closing off the shortcut through our estate favoured by kids knacker drinking

Closing a shortcut just leaves two dead-ends where they can knacker drink with impunity and undisturbed, and makes people more car dependent.

the_syco

djimi wrote: »

My main issue with such fees is that in the case of the example above, 400 houses at €65 a pop comes to €26000, and even if you consider that only maybe half the houses will actually pay, thats still well in excess of €10000. While I appreciate that people need to be paid for their time and effort, thats an awful lot of money to collect for getting the grass cut and a bit of a tidy up.

There are eight reasonable green areas, and one very large green area all of which gets cut in four times a year. The company also prunes/cuts the trees, and mulches the waste. Then another bundle of money goes to the buying of trees and plants that are planted by volunteers to make the estate look nice. Most years we break even, but it's in the residents best interests to ensure the place looks nice, as their kids use the greens, and it helps them if they're selling their house that they live in a nice looking estate.

djimi wrote: »

Is this information made available to residents in the area? Does someone actually sit down and keep accounts and records of how much the services cost compared to how much money is brought in?

In my estates RA case, yes. There is a record kept, and sometimes there is money left over from the previous year which is just left in the kitty.

MYOB wrote: »

Closing a shortcut just leaves two dead-ends where they can knacker drink with impunity and undisturbed, and makes people more car dependent.

Having witnessed the destruction that the drunks get up to, such as stealing wipers, smashing car windows, egging houses, terrifying old people, sometimes closing shortcuts can be beneficial. As for the gap; if you close off the "other" side where the scum come from, it's usually very effective. People will still moan about it, as they'll have to walk a little extra, but in the long term, the people living next to the shortcut will be happier.

L1011

the_syco wrote: »

Having witnessed the destruction that the drunks get up to, such as stealing wipers, smashing car windows, egging houses, terrifying old people, sometimes closing shortcuts can be beneficial. As for the gap; if you close off the "other" side where the scum come from, it's usually very effective. People will still moan about it, as they'll have to walk a little extra, but in the long term, the people living next to the shortcut will be happier.

I'd generally prefer that we don't end up with US style dead end housing estates where people have to drive *everywhere* rather than please a small number of householders. They knew the shortcut existed when they bought the house. The shortcut isn't the issue - the people are. Get the authorities to deal with *them*.

If anyone attempted to block the rights of way on the two shortcuts in to my estate, I'd go all the way to court to prevent it.

Cedrus

Agent Smith wrote: »

Let the Landlord Pay


I wouldnt pay anything like that unless i owned the house.


Say you move out in 2 months, would you get a refund?

Say you stay for 2 months and your children enjoy the facilities and even break the odd tree, say you walk every evening in the safe landscaped estate, say you let your dog out every night to **** indiscriminately? You still wouldn't contribute?

Cedrus

djimi wrote: »

Is this information made available to residents in the area? Does someone actually sit down and keep accounts and records of how much the services cost compared to how much money is brought in?

There is absolutely no reason or excuse why any agency collecting money should not be able to account for it. The standards of reporting will vary depending on the skillset of those responsible and the legal requirements (which don't apply to RAs as yet) but a simple contribution x No. of houses - outgoings = debt/retain report / daybook is not beyond anyone who can muster the organisational skills to run a committee.

However, there are some people with accounting qualifications, PM experience, or worst of all post grad students who demand, "Semi pixelated contra projections in the seventh dimension with the integer in Sagittarius" ** before they part with their crispy notes.

** I made that up but it's no madder sounding than some of the things I've been asked for