Landlord Issue - Rented Room

GrumPy

Hi Guys,

Apologies in advance for the long post.

I've been renting a room in a house for a number of months. Recently, a friend began renting one of the other free rooms in the house. The house owner lives in England and only visits Ireland a few times a year. We pay rent directly to her account each month manually with online banking, and there is no written agreement in place. It was verbally agreed however, that it was the specific rooms we were renting and she could visit with notice to use the rest of the house herself for a couple of days the odd time - which is fine.

She had an argument with my housemate on Friday morning (I wasn't around) but seemed to loose the head about how clean the kitchen was and blamed my friend. I had emailed her the previous night letting her know the kitchen sink was leaking. She blamed my housemate on breaking this sink, and ranted and raved about how wonderful I was, and how unreasonable he was.

Now obviously I'm taking sides with my housemate, whom I know many years and is a very laid back, religious individual. The lady lady however is a very excitable older woman whom I only got a chance to speak to this evening and was incredibly rude and said on a number of occasions "I don't want to talk about that" when I challenged her on comments she was making. (I was calm and polite at all times, I had 3 days of planning for this conversation.)

She basically gave my housemate a day to move out, which she quickly realised was unreasonable. When the PRRTB were mentioned, this week turned into a month's notice. She was very forceful to remind me her brother-in-law is a gaurd, the prrh (yes, her words) had no power over room lettings and she COULD kick him out tomorrow because it's her house (despite actually now giving him a month to find somewhere)

She also claimed how difficult he was, and how "other people I know that know him" feel the same about his manner.

Long story short, she claimed to try "reason" with him this morning with the full intention of "resolving the matter" which fell apart because of his reaction to the conversation. This conversation was recorded, and it's all bull****, she lied about what happened and my housemate's version of events are accurate.

Both myself and my housemate have already started looking for new places (although, she's happy for me to stay, her issue is with him) because well, even if the situation was resolvable neither of us would want to live in this place anymore!

Can anyone tell me what rights the landlord & us as tenants actually have in a situation like this? No lease, no contract, just renting rooms in a house owned by an English person who mostly lives in England!

She claims the PRTB have no control over her, but when it was mentioned she went from 1 weeks notice to 4, and felt the need to type up and print a letter to my housemate. (Which her brother-in- law apparently typed out in the station for her cause she has no printer.... )
Sorry for length of post! Neither of us plan on staying regardless of outcome, I'm just very curious about how (and even if!) this kind of situation could be resolved legally if that was a path we wished to take.

Thanks

ABajaninCork

AFAIK, you're only renting rooms and the PRTB doesn't apply in your case as you're only renting the rooms under licence. Unfortunately, the landlady CAN throw you out with little or no notice. I stand to be corrected on this, and I'm sure someone will soon be along to either confirm or correct what I'm saying.

She's given you and your mate a month, right? If I were you, I'd get busy looking for somewhere else to go. Perhaps the two of you could find a flat/house to rent together?

Did you pay a deposit? When leaving, I would make sure your room is in apple-pie order. Take dated pictures with a copy of the day's paper placed in a prominent place.

not even wrong

She claims the PRTB have no control over her, but when it was mentioned she went from 1 weeks notice to 4

She is correct. You are not a tenant, you are living there on license therefore you have next to no rights under the Residential Tenancies Act.

Elvis_Presley

She may be using the rent a room scheme where she can rent rooms and not pay tax on the first 10k. However, she must live there. I think you need to start asking her about her tax affairs. As she is non-resident, you should be with holding 20% of her rent as tax. I reckon the best way to resolve this is to question her tax affairs, move out and when you get your deposit back - report her to revenue. She's playing dirty, you might as well!

GrumPy

Elvis_Presley wrote: »

She may be using the rent a room scheme where she can rent rooms and not pay tax on the first 10k. However, she must live there. I think you need to start asking her about her tax affairs. As she is non-resident, you should be with holding 20% of her rent as tax. I reckon the best way to resolve this is to question her tax affairs, move out and when you get your deposit back - report her to revenue. She's playing dirty, you might as well!

Yes, I'm fairly certain she's part of no scheme, and she doesn't live here! Her home address is in the UK with her husband and she works there too.

The PRTB thing is good too know, despite them not being a body I could deal with in this situation. The tax implications for her sub-letting rooms in a house she doesn't reside are obviously a concern for her; based on her reaction. We've already started looking for places, so hopefully this will all end nicely and we get away from her. I just listened back over our conversation, it's genuinely shocking how unreasonable she is. Interrupting me when I am talking, and dismissing my comments. I guess some people are just bloody rude - incredibly difficult to communicate with her effectively, and I really did hear her out and stay calm during it.

Thank god for smartphones. I know it's not cool recording people without their permission, but knowing how the conversation was probably going to go, I figured it was a good idea to have an audio copy, so I don't think I'm crazy later on thinking I went in all guns blazing or anything!

Will be glad to get out of here asap!

odds_on

GrumPy wrote: »

Yes, I'm fairly certain she's part of no scheme, and she doesn't live here! Her home address is in the UK with her husband and she works there too.

The PRTB thing is good too know, despite them not being a body I could deal with in this situation. The tax implications for her sub-letting rooms in a house she doesn't reside are obviously a concern for her; based on her reaction. We've already started looking for places, so hopefully this will all end nicely and we get away from her. I just listened back over our conversation, it's genuinely shocking how unreasonable she is. Interrupting me when I am talking, and dismissing my comments. I guess some people are just bloody rude - incredibly difficult to communicate with her effectively, and I really did hear her out and stay calm during it.

Thank god for smartphones. I know it's not cool recording people without their permission, but knowing how the conversation was probably going to go, I figured it was a good idea to have an audio copy, so I don't think I'm crazy later on thinking I went in all guns blazing or anything!

Will be glad to get out of here asap!

The landlady does not appear to be renting rooms in her principle or main residence as she appears to live in the UK, thus the OP and his friend are not licensees/lodgers but have tenancies (oral). They must be registered with the PRTB and any notice of termination must be in accordance with the RTA 2004.

However,

It was verbally agreed however, that it was the specific rooms we were renting and she could visit with notice to use the rest of the house herself for a couple of days the odd time - which is fine.

A licensee may also be described as persons occupying accommodation in which the owner is not resident under a formal licence arrangement with the owner where the occupants are not entitled to its exclusive use and the owner has continuing access to the accommodation and/or can move around or change the occupants.

The OP must decide if the above applies to him and his house mate specifically as regards:

1. exclusive use
2. the owner having continuing access to the accommodation (and the fact that the landlady requires permission to stay in the house on occasions).
3. if the bedrooms are specifically designated or if the landlady can move around or change the occupants

GrumPy

odds_on wrote: »

The landlady does not appear to be renting rooms in her principle or main residence as she appears to live in the UK, thus the OP and his friend are not licensees/lodgers but have tenancies (oral). They must be registered with the PRTB and any notice of termination must be in accordance with the RTA 2004.

However,


A licensee may also be described as persons occupying accommodation in which the owner is not resident under a formal licence arrangement with the owner where the occupants are not entitled to its exclusive use and the owner has continuing access to the accommodation and/or can move around or change the occupants.

The OP must decide if the above applies to him and his house mate specifically as regards:

1. exclusive use
2. the owner having continuing access to the accommodation (and the fact that the landlady requires permission to stay in the house on occasions).
3. if the bedrooms are specifically designated or if the landlady can move around or change the occupants

This is all really useful, thank you. It seems she should have been paying tax regardless of if she has the right to kick us out or not.
I may indeed approach the revenue when we do move out to let them know the situation to check up on her!

dearg lady

GrumPy wrote: »

This is all really useful, thank you. It seems she should have been paying tax regardless of if she has the right to kick us out or not.
I may indeed approach the revenue when we do move out to let them know the situation to check up on her!

if she's non resident in the country you should have been withholding tax before paying rent over to her.. so if you go to Revenue, surely it will be you who owes the tax money. I would say just fond somewhere new, and chalk it up to experience.

odds_on

dearg lady wrote: »

if she's non resident in the country you should have been withholding tax before paying rent over to her.. so if you go to Revenue, surely it will be you who owes the tax money. I would say just fond somewhere new, and chalk it up to experience.

But as I understand it, the bank account into which the rent was being paid is in Ireland and therefore, the tenants could claim that they did not have realized that the landlady lives outside the RoI.

djimi

I would say that your best bet here is to contact Threshold, who will listen to all the details of the tenancy and the situaiton and will be able to properly advise what your legal rights are and how you should handle the situation.

A word of warning on the rental tax; its the tenants responsibility to withhold this and declare it to revenue. To all those who are suggesting that the OP use the revenue as a stick to beat the landlord with, just make sure that the OP wont be landing themselves with a sizable bill from revenue by doing so...

whatnext

The mentioning of the Garda is the bit that bothers me.

"I" would dig my heels in on this one and regard this as a threat of some kind.
I would be very clear and polite and ask if this was a threat of some kind, ask for his name, station and rank.

Good to know that our over worked Gardai have the resources an time to act as property managers, probably while on paid overtime.

the_syco

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Did you pay a deposit? When leaving, I would make sure your room is in apple-pie order. Take dated pictures with a copy of the day's paper placed in a prominent place.

This.

=-=

Also, when your moving out, mention the dated pictures of the clean room, and ask for her PPS number so you can claim back rent relief off the revenue.

=-=

As for the brother-in-law in the Gardai, try to get a name and station, as the Revenue will probably need it (I'm assuming the Irish bank account is his :rolleyes: and that he transfers the money to the landlady after holding the 20% back for revenue:pac:).

You see, I'm thinking there is no brother-in-law, and even if there is, I doubt he'd want anything to do with the landladys tax dodging, so if he comes into the picture drop the words "revenue", "withholding 20% tax", "PPS number", and he should disappear in a puff of smoke like an evil genie in a Disney movie.

GrumPy

Hmmm...

Seems it's the tenants duty to retain the tax?

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/tenancy-issues/tax-obligations-of-tenants-whose-landlord-lives-ab/

Seems retarded to me!

Anyway, I'll probably be moved out around the same time she has requested my housemate leaves. I'll make sure to clean up real good and take pictures. Also, I'll try time it so if she doesn't return the deposit, I won't have paid for the last current month so she can't rip me off. I get the impression she'll try troll me before I move out!