Photographing Children - Joe Duffy Show

thebaz

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

same as... i don't have children myself, but if i did, i probably wouldn't be too happy. however, if a photographer asked, i'd probably not be bothered.
people are too freaked these days over children and pictures so it's just safer to ask, or don't bother. keep your stealthy street pics to those over 18 lol

agree, I have children myself, but ther is a near hysteria about photographing children today , a McCarthyism - I am sure the more heinous child photgraphy is done in private , and not in public.

Children , need protection , but like the old , the rich , the poor are also part of our life ...

the guy in the park should have deleted the images, when the guardian was so unhappy, in my mind

Paulw

sineadw wrote: »

Just on a legal point, parks aren't public land. They belong to the OPW and you DON'T have the right to photograph whomever you wish, although you still can't be told to show or delete shots.

But there are no laws nor by-laws for OPW parks that forbid photography, so how can you say that the photographer doesn't have a right to take photos? :eek: The OPW only require a permit to be obtained for a commercial shoot.

http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/Dublin/StStephensGreen/

Photography / Video allowed: Yes, but permit required for commercial purposes.

Only a court can force you to show/delete images. If you are breaking the law (in this case the photographer wasn't), then the images would be required as evidence in a court of law. If you are not breaking the law, then no one has the right to ask/demaned you delete the images.

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Obviously the Park Ranger does not know this then.

The park ranger was totally correct in what he did/said. The photographer was within his rights to take photos and had broken no law.

melekalikimaka

yeah i'd be of the opinion to give them the ol finger if there was any sort of attitude, if i was asked politely what were my intentions and if it was communicated in a civil manner that as a parent and concerned about jimmy savilles and the likes lurking on the interwebs finding pics of my kiddie, and would I mind if i did not take photos and for peace of mind maybe delete any taken, i'd smile and do it happily.

DaireQuinlan

Paulw wrote: »

But there are no laws nor by-laws for OPW parks that forbid photography, so how can you say that the photographer doesn't have a right to take photos? :eek: The OPW only require a permit to be obtained for a commercial shoot.

http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/Dublin/StStephensGreen/

Photography / Video allowed: Yes, but permit required for commercial purposes.

Only a court can force you to show/delete images. If you are breaking the law (in this case the photographer wasn't), then the images would be required as evidence in a court of law. If you are not breaking the law, then no one has the right to ask/demaned you delete the images.



The park ranger was totally correct in what he did/said. The photographer was within his rights to take photos and had broken no law.

No, sinead is quite right. You -don't- have the 'right' to take photographs in (say) stephens green as you do in a public place. The warden can at any point ask you to stop taking photographs, and have you removed from the park if you refuse. It's a permission granted to you by the owners of the property.

Paulw

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

No, sinead is quite right. You -don't- have the 'right' to take photographs in (say) stephens green as you do in a public place. The warden can at any point ask you to stop taking photographs, and have you removed from the park if you refuse. It's a permission granted to you by the owners of the property.

But, the OPW site states that photography is permitted, hence granting you permission, with the clause that commercial photography requires a permit. Also, the park warden did not ask the photographer to stop, and clarified that the photographer was within his right to take photos.

Yes, I agree that a park warden has the power to ask you to stop and/or remove you from the park, but in this situation, the warden deemed that nothing wrong was done.

thefizz

What disturbs me most about all this is that Denis was actuay listening to the Joe Duffy show

jpb1974

Hanging around outside playgrounds, pointing a lens through a fence, taking photos of kids... ask yourself "would you do it?".

Whether it was legal or not I think the photographer was stupid... feck all common sense and just asking for trouble.

mdebets

tricky D wrote: »

The Gardaí can take his name and check him out later for previous, but that's about it.

Under what law?

Tallon

jpb1974 wrote: »

Hanging around outside playgrounds, pointing a lens through a fence, taking photos of kids... ask yourself "would you do it?".

Whether it was legal or not I think the photographer was stupid... feck all common sense and just asking for trouble.

Yes I would! If I thought it would help my shot

You can't blanket ban something like that. If there was no fence, and the chap was wearing a suit, and an RTE Jacket would anyone care? No!

jpb1974

You can't blanket ban something like that.

Not sure anyone said you could.

If there was no fence, and the chap was wearing a suit, and an RTE Jacket would anyone care?

If my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle. That's be a totally different set of circumstances. Not the situation that's being discussed.

would anyone care? No!

That's a pretty sweeping assumption.

magicbastarder

Tallon wrote: »

You can't blanket ban something like that. If there was no fence, and the chap was wearing a suit, and an RTE Jacket would anyone care? No!

actually, some people would care more. if someone was taking pics for RTE, it would increase the likelihood that the shots would end up being used on TV.

Tallon

jpb1974 wrote: »

If my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle. That's be a totally different set of circumstances. Not the situation that's being discussed.

You don't know that!

You're hearing a story, on Joe Duffy, from an irate father, who thinks a peado took a photo of his kid! He's obviously going to exaggerate!

I seriously doubt half of what he was moaning about happened, and as I said previously, I doubt he went over and spoke politely

OldGoat

jpb1974 wrote: »

Hanging around outside playgrounds, pointing a lens through a fence, taking photos of kids... ask yourself "would you do it?".

Whether it was legal or not I think the photographer was stupid... feck all common sense and just asking for trouble.

I spent about an hour this weekend shooting in a crowded playground - both sides of the boundry (there is no fence).
No one passed any comment or even gave me a curious look (that I noticed). I wandered through the playground in the company of another man taking shots of anything that caught my imagination.

jpb1974

You're hearing a story, on Joe Duffy, from an irate father, who thinks a peado took a photo of his kid! He's obviously going to exaggerate! I seriously doubt half of what he was moaning about happened, and as I said previously, I doubt he went over and spoke politely

I never heard him refer to the photographer as a peado.

I don't know whether he was exaggerating or not.

I don't know whether what he was 'moaning' about , as you put it, happened or not.

I don't know if he spoke politely or not.

I am assuming that something close to what was reported happened, and assuming it is true then I think it was stupid.

If it didn't happen and the story is totally and utterly fabricated my view still stands - As a father, I wouldn't want my child being photo'd by a total and utter stranger outside a playground without my consent. There's no arguement there. It's my opinion, it's my view, that's it.

If it isn't against the law and there was nothing I could do about it, I'd take my child and leave.

Sometimes I bring my child to the playground and there are teenagers there smoking, shouting and cursing. I doubt they are breaking the law (maybe the smoking, maybe the cursing, I really don't know), but it doesn't change the fact that I don't like the behaviour, I'd like to tell them to either stop or feck off but I don't. I just leave.

The point being - I think there is behaviour that may be viewed by some as in-appropriate, can cause trouble, but may be total legal. If photographers are happy to potentially court controvery with parents then I think that is stupid.

I don't have problems with people taking pictures of childeren, but I think it should be done in a manner that is somewhat respectful and transparent to parents in order to avoid problems. Personally I'm not going to get on my high horse if my kid ends up in someone's Spire photo by chance, but I don't want some guy floating around outside a playground taking direct pictures of him without my consent.

challengemaster

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

same as... i don't have children myself, but if i did, i probably wouldn't be too happy. however, if a photographer asked, i'd probably not be bothered.

This is something I find rather funny about the whole thing. Asking to take photos in the first place doesn't ensure you're not a paedo, it just means you could be a polite one.

It may seem like that's not helping the case, but personally I think that shows how ridiculous the whole thought process about this is.

dirtyghettokid

well if you are asking to take a photo of a child, you obviously have a reason for it, in which you would discuss with the parent.
otherwise, taking random photos of children is a weird thing to do, unless you know them, that is.

smash

EyeBlinks wrote: »

Isn't it odd to think taking photos of kids in public is odd

Sad this is that if it was a woman taking the photos there'd probably be no questions asked!

Neeson

Can someone put up a direct link to the podcast. I can't get the page up with it on it. Thanks.

They had a follow up on it on the show yesterday as well.

pullandbang

Neeson wrote: »

Can someone put up a direct link to the podcast. I can't get the page up with it on it. Thanks.

They had a follow up on it on the show yesterday as well.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81368877&postcount=3

Neeson

pullandbang wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81368877&postcount=3

That brings up links to the latest show which is from the 23rd. I want to listen to the fella ringing in, which was on the 22nd.

When i click this nothing happens? www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml

Does it work for anyone else?

Neeson

Sorry, i see it now.

pullandbang

Seems the follow up callers were a bit more level headed and pragmatic about the whole thing.

Jimmy Bottlehead

I genuinely don't see the fuss over photos being taken in a playground...

Surely if someone is an actual paedophile, they'll look for far worse images on the internet?
And even if they're banned from taking photos, what's stopping them just staring at the kids anyways?

I honestly feel it's a huge overreaction from our overtly-PC society.

crusher000

It's not about being PC it's about protecting children and THEIR rights. Most clubs/schools don't allow parents to take group photos any more due to the fear (mis guided or not) that the images even if taking innocently end up on the internet or on the papers where would be peados get to see the child thus drawing their attention to the child. I recently asked a photographer to accompany me to take photos to promote an event. Asked the club for permission (I was known by the club) and gave us the go ahead. He hadn't the lens of the camera when a mother (known to me as well) came over and asked what we were doing. once I explained and said I had permission she had no problems. Guys there's the real world and the forum world and thankfully the two don't corrsepond where of the cuff statements aren't how the real world works.

Baltrux

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I genuinely don't see the fuss over photos being taken in a playground...

Surely if someone is an actual paedophile, they'll look for far worse images on the internet?
And even if they're banned from taking photos, what's stopping them just staring at the kids anyways?

I honestly feel it's a huge overreaction from our overtly-PC society.

Totally agree with Jimmy! on the other hand: I love taking pic's of my kids in the playground where they are totally natural and enjoying themselves without "forced" smiles. When I'm in a playground with the kids the last thing I want to do is upset other parents, when I first got my camera I'd make sure my kids were on there own when I shot them and I'd make sure people could see my lense cap was on when I wasn't I was totally paranoid which is a shame as I'd see loads of great shots of other kids. As Jimmy said are paedo's not into alot worse!!!

thebaz

crusher000 wrote: »

It's not about being PC it's about protecting children and THEIR rights. Most clubs/schools don't allow parents to take group photos any more due to the fear (mis guided or not) that the images even if taking innocently end up on the internet or on the papers where would be peados get to see the child thus drawing their attention to the child.

Do paedos get their kicks from children innocently playing in the open ?

I would assume they amuse themselves with images of children being horrificly abused in very private and disturbing settings.
These days I rarely take images of children , because of society's distorted view on this matter - and to re-iterate, I think REAL child abuse is a despicable cowardice act , the lowest form of human behaviour.

milos

"It's not about being PC it's about protecting children and THEIR rights. Most clubs/schools don't allow parents to take group photos any more due to the fear (mis guided or not) that the images even if taking innocently end up on the internet or on the papers where would be peados get to see the child thus drawing their attention to the child."

Should misguided "fear" rule us. The chances of any peado trawling the internet and targeting a child from a photo seems very remote. Yet this idea is instilling fear in parents minds and thus painting togs as a danger to children.

I would love to take pictures in public of happy children playing but because I am a middle aged overweight man I have a terrible fear of being wrongfully accused of being a peado.

Also what rights are you infringing on when you take a pic of a child.

crusher000

Don't know what peados think ? Haven't researched the matter. I have kids and work with kids in clubs I'm invovled with. Agree that some peoples views on photgraphing kids can be over the top but at the end of the day if it lessens the threat to kids all for it. Most people don't have an issue with any of the policies regarding photographing kids as they see the reasons behind it and have nothing to hide.

Neeson

Joe Duffy is a tube. Even he thought you needed parent's permission.

thebaz

Neeson wrote: »

Joe Duffy is a tube. Even he thought you needed parent's permission.

ther was a woman on from Clontarf ....