Am I the only one who thinks removing the kids from school to go on hols in wrong?

pickarooney

It shouldn't really be an issue at 5 years old. It's far more important that they get to see their family than anything they would learn in school in that short time frame. It's all stuff you can easily teach them yourself in any case. If there is anything they need to learn in September, find out beforehand and teach them in August instead.

deisemum

My lads are in secondary school and I've tried to avoid taking them out of school for holidays in term time over the years but when I did on a few occasions I took the last week in June where they might have missed 1 - 3 days and I took them out for one week one side of a half term to have a foreign holiday and the odd time if they had a Thursday or Tuesday off I took them out for the Friday or Monday and went on a short break.

Some families don't have much option but to take their children out of school if they've got family abroad and some parents workplaces do not allow holidays during the school holidays.

As a parent when you see a teacher take her own children out of school in term time to go on a holiday which has happened by one teacher in my childrens primary school on more than one occasion then how can a school turn around to parents and discourage parents doing the same.

ScouseMouse

I agree its not idea, but perhaps a necessary evil.

Last year we went to Orlando and to go the day after my nine year old was finished, it cost €3999.

I asked how much it would be to go a month earlier. It was €2999.

We went for two weeks but because of a bank holiday and two weeks turned into 9 days.

I agree its not ideal, but that is nothing to be sniffed at. PLUS, as she is only nine, she missed very little.

gbee

Far too much emphases is put on school, they are like a whole other dictatorship, had my own battles with them in my time.

And at the micro slow rate that school moves, I dare say that a child could miss and entire year and not actually miss anything, let alone a couple of weeks for a holiday, especially if such holiday afforded the therapeutic and medical benefits of a better climate than our infamous summer.

I always put my children first.

Charl0tte

gbee wrote: »

Far too much emphases is put on school, they are like a whole other dictatorship, had my own battles with them in my time.

And at the micro slow rate that school moves, I dare say that a child could miss and entire year and not actually miss anything, let alone a couple of weeks for a holiday, especially if such holiday afforded the therapeutic and medical benefits of a better climate than our infamous summer.

I always put my children first.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever heard.

dahamsta

Nanazolie wrote: »

If the child is 5 and learns nothing, why bother sending her to school then?

You're the person that keeps saying that; there's no mention of "learning nothing" in my post.

It's not a binary equation, a day out of school is different to a month; it becomes more of an issue as they get older, and quality of parenting and teaching is also a factor. Even social circumstance has a part to play, since a family that can afford grinds is in a better position than a family that can't.

All that being said, a 5 year old? If a 5 year old - or their class - is being affected by a week or two away from school, then there's bigger problems to worry about.

Charl0tte

dahamsta wrote:

All that being said, a 5 year old? If a 5 year old - or their class - is being affected by a week or two away from school, then there's bigger problems to worry about.

At that age my children were sent home with spellings and tables, reading and writing. Pretty much everything they came home with was new to them. Thats a week or two's worth of work you've more or less said was pointless to both teacher and pupil here.

Nanazolie

dahamsta wrote: »

You're the person that keeps saying that; there's no mention of "learning nothing" in my post.

It's not a binary equation, a day out of school is different to a month; it becomes more of an issue as they get older, and quality of parenting and teaching is also a factor. Even social circumstance has a part to play, since a family that can afford grinds is in a better position than a family that can't.

All that being said, a 5 year old? If a 5 year old - or their class - is being affected by a week or two away from school, then there's bigger problems to worry about.

Saying it this way makes more sense. I understand your point better now

Mossess

My little fellow is 5. Loves school. Yesterday’s word was HE. He will have a new word today, and tomorrow. Every day is important on many different levels. Education is the one gift that all parents in this country can/should be able to give their children. It doesn’t matter where you live, what your parents do or who you know, every child has the same right to an education. And with that Education they can go on to do whatever they decide and once they have it, it can never be taken away from them.

Rasmus

I think it is ok if is an exception, rather than the rule. I don't think it is a good idea for annual (or even bi-annual!) family holidays. Kids miss out on end of term fun and play-date planning, not just school work. Once in a blue moon will not affect the child though - and I would not cancel a special trip or family event (for example, if you have overseas relatives waiting etc) on account of school term.

Sleepy

How much effort do people think is involved in covering a weeks' classroom learning in a one-on-one environment?

A 5 year old spends what, 9am to 1pm in school? Including an hour or so of breaks and playtime a day, most likely an hour or two of worthless religious indoctrination a week, an hour of PE, Art & Crafts, Story Time etc. Would be interested to hear a teacher's viewpoint on it but I'm guessing there's maybe, what, 8-10 hours of actual education going on in a junior/senior infants class per week?

Definitely not a blanket bad thing, but something to be avoided if possible. I was taken on a holiday during school, and I think my visit to Kennedy Space Center is a far bigger influence on my career path (engineer) than whatever I would have learned in the two weeks of primary school I missed.

To this day I want to go back and successfully land the shuttle sim

eviltwin

I've done it a few times. The most she has ever missed in one trip is 2 or 3 days and its never been a problem. I wouldn't do it at the start of a new year or in an exam year but other than that I would do it. Kids can learn a lot by travelling too. I don't see any evidence that it has been detrimental to her school work. She got her JC results this year and did really well so I am happy but I agree it depends on the child.

IvyTheTerrible

It's not something I'd want to get into the habit of. I remember myself how hard it was for me to catch up in Maths, for example, if I was a few days off sick. And I'm good at maths.

And I think the suggestion of asking the teachers to prepare work for the child missing school is a bit rich!

pwurple

Sleepy wrote: »

How much effort do people think is involved in covering a weeks' classroom learning in a one-on-one environment?

A 5 year old spends what, 9am to 1pm in school? Including an hour or so of breaks and playtime a day, most likely an hour or two of worthless religious indoctrination a week, an hour of PE, Art & Crafts, Story Time etc. Would be interested to hear a teacher's viewpoint on it but I'm guessing there's maybe, what, 8-10 hours of actual education going on in a junior/senior infants class per week?

Thank feck I'm not a teacher. What other job is held to account like this? I was a classroom assistant a few times when I was younger on my college hols, in junior and senior infants. The workload is massive. Class sessions are 15 minutes long. And how can you dismiss arts and crafts and all the rest so easily? The skills they learn in arts and crafts help with their dexterity, how they hold a crayon teaches them how to hold a pen and write. The more you practice that grip, the better you get, and the easier it is to write. Not to mention increasing their concentration. Storytelling teaches them creativity, increases their vocabulary and encourages group cooperation. Religion teaches them moral values, social context to things going on in their lives like Santa and easter eggs and yet more vocabulary... PE for teamwork, physical skills...I can go on and on, but I'm sure you get the point. It is ALL education. Even the breaks, where they learn to eat and behave in a social setting, and clean up after themselves.

Very naive to think those things are for distraction or babysitting purposes.

Tipsygypsy

I've been in that position. When my eldest was young I was adamant that he wouldn't miss school unless it was absolutely necessary, my husband (and his family) see it as no problem to miss a week here or there. Over the years I've relaxed a bit about it, I don't mind a day or two here or there for exceptional circumstances - weddings away, special trips etc, especially if the trip wouldn't be affordable otherwise (dearest flights always at weekend). Mine are only in primary school yet, but they do get so much from EVERY day, things that we don't realise they are learning, what you see coming home as homework is such a tiny fraction of what is covered during the day.

While I do think a week is too much we have done a full week when the opportunity of a cheap skitrip came up -and to be fair it was a fantastic experience for them, and it was a learning experience in its own right - and our FANTASTIC teachers were more than willing to send coursework and homework to keep the boys up to speed, the school had no problem with it all. I would try to avoid doing it again in the future if at all possible, but that said, if you offered me an all expenses paid trip to the alps that could only be taken during school term we'd be gone.


All that said, I'm not the only parent, and my husbands views are as valid as mine, trying to strike a balance on issues like this isn't easy. But what I would say is that it is between you and your partner, the in-laws need to respect whatever decision YOU BOTH come to.

Penny Dreadful

areyawell wrote: »

Dont take school so seriously, really! 14 years of it and where does it get you no-where. Only thing you have to do well in is your final year of college to get 1:1 or 2:1 or 2:2. People who take school so serious is ridiculous. Its like a holiday and the school system is a joke in ireland

School is serious, it is important and it does get you places. Try not going at all and see how far from nowhere you get.

planetX

Quite often I've found our primary school schedules holidays like mid-terms so they don't co-incide with uk schools. Which is great for people going on real holidays, but no good for those of us who need to see family over there. I have no problem taking my son out of school so he can see his family. If I didn't you could be sure that would be the week they would be in the church every day wasting everyone's time.

CelticRambler

It very much depends on whether the time off is for "holiday" or the "travel". Taking a child out of school just to sit on a beach and build sand-castles is of dubious value, but taking them to visit far-away family or to actively explore foreign places - yes, even at the age of five - is worth at least half a dozen letters of the alphabet.

In a previous life, my busiest time at work was the school holidays, all of them. Being self-employed, that was my only "holiday pay" so we regularly took our children out of school. This was in the UK and it was a major hassle, every day having to be approved by the board of governers, but (a) worth it for our family's quality of life, and (b) worth it for the children's education, not least because they all returned from trips proud of the fact that they could "speak" German/French/Italian. Maybe only three words then, but it gave them a taste for communicating in foreign languages that they've developed since.

As for "missing out" - well, as one enlightened head teacher remarked when I raised this matter when our two eldest were in secondary school, there are many children who have to miss great chunks of school time due to illness and other "legitimate" reasons. It's the school's job to accept that their pupils lead many different kinds of lives and respond accordingly.

tacofries

pwurple wrote: »

I know right, the children who have 9 weeks off in the summer, plus easter, christmas and mid-terms, must have no idea how to live their life, versus those who take that extra one on top of it. :rolleyes:

And it seems fairly unlikely to me that someone with 515 points in the LC would have the grammar and punctuation of that post, so I won't be believing that one in a hurry either.

I guess if a parent doesn't value an education highly in the first place, then nothing will change their priorities. We all have different values.

Takin the usual holidays off does not teach them how to live their life. Learning that you don't have to be forced into things (like school) and miss out on happy occassions because of it, does. You learn to do what makes you happy :rolleyes:



Also misses "unlikely" :rolleyes: , do you realise that you do a minimum of 6 subjects in the leaving cert, and that of those six subjects, in only 1 does punctuation count for a significant amount of marks (10 %). Thus, punctuation works out to be worth 10points out of a possible 625. Going by that, how can you justify sayin that it is "very unlikely" that I got 515points in my leaving cert due to the standard of punctuation in my previous post!? :rolleyes:

I suppose its been so long since you did your leavin cert that you forgot how the system works?? :rolleyes:

P.s. see. We can both use :rolleyes: to be condescending :rolleyes:

dzer2

We take the kids out of school every year the 3rd week in January to go skiing. We have 5 children and they love going to school and rarely miss a day otherwise. We dont go on a sun holiday as I nor the children could sit around all day. We save in the region of 2k by doing this as it is a low season week. While the children are out of school we have spoke to the teachers involved, they said they wouldnt give any work to the children to be completed on the trip but that they were to bring back a project on the trip and have a concept of the language and be able to have some phrases to show the classes. The older twins at this stage can read a menu and order their food in german the younger ones know numbers and say hello please and Thanks. The way this country is going these traits will be very much needed in the future. Its what you make of the time off that counts.

angeldaisy

I always avoided taking my son out of school for holidays, he would miss the odd day through illness or hospital visits. but this week he's going to miss 3 days, as we need to visit family and to travel at the weekend would have cost me twice as much.
So the decision was made for us both to travel midweek missing school (I'm a mature student). My son (7) actually wanted to bring his school books with him - so he could do his work:D. However I believe that the education he receives outside of school is just as important as in school.

After all who's to say that their education doesn't suffer when teachers are away? One of his teachers last year seemed to take a day off every week for hurling matches - which results in the class being split up into other years and doing work sheets?

I think as long as it's not for too long, or done repeatedly, it shouldn't impact on the child's education.
Unfortunately in this time of austerity not many of us have the luxury to travel exactly when we would like to.

thesimpsons

think its very wrong to take children of any age out of school for holidays. A foreign holiday is not essential. I've seen so many of my nieces/nephews or friend's kids taken out in May/June on the basis that they don't do anything at this time of the year but they miss the memories of school tours, sports days, having class out in the garden on a nice day, etc.

by the way, one of my kids got 515 in leaving cert too - she only got D3 in english though. grammar is important but don't belittle the points of someone who isn't good in english but might be a master in maths/physics subjects.

pickarooney

Charl0tte wrote: »

At that age my children were sent home with spellings and tables, reading and writing. Pretty much everything they came home with was new to them. Thats a week or two's worth of work you've more or less said was pointless to both teacher and pupil here.

In that case those in this thread saying the Irish education system was slow and useless are bull****ting. In French schools the five-year olds don't do anything near that complicated in school. They mostly draw, do collages and count and learn a few words.

Nanazolie

pickarooney wrote: »

In that case those in this thread saying the Irish education system was slow and useless are bull****ting. In French schools the five-year olds don't do anything near that complicated in school. They mostly draw, do collages and count and learn a few words.

:eek: That's a big change from when I was in school in France. We would start at 8h30 am, finish at 4.30pm and I remember painfully learning how to write (I couldn't hold my pen correctly - still can't - and I remember the teacher staying with me during breaks until I had the correct hold). We also did puppet theatre and collage and art and craft (oh, those beautiful and so useful string holders, all hand-stiched! ), but the core of the day was definitively writing / spelling / reading / maths. At 5, a child would be in 'Grande section de maternelle' and preparing for 'Cours Preparatoire 1ere année' (CP), where kids are supposed to know the fundations of writing. But I heard that the French president is looking at abolishing homeworks, so I guess a lot has changed in the curriculum and the way of teaching

egan2020

We're lucky with our primary school in that in recent years, they introduced a system whereby the kids are given less time off during the year, i.e. where some nearby school might be given the Tuesday off after a bank holiday, our school is open. They get a substitute in for the day if there's a staff training day. The end result is that they finish in June a week earlier than most schools so families can get a cheaper holiday than they would if they had to wait a week later.

Sleepy

pwurple wrote: »

And how can you dismiss arts and crafts and all the rest so easily? The skills they learn in arts and crafts help with their dexterity, how they hold a crayon teaches them how to hold a pen and write. The more you practice that grip, the better you get, and the easier it is to write. Not to mention increasing their concentration.

Am I the only one who's kids spend significant chunks of their day at home drawing? Or who'd pack the crayons and colouring books for a holiday?

Storytelling teaches them creativity, increases their vocabulary and encourages group cooperation.

And so, I read to my children, make up stories about Prince [eldest] and Princess [youngest] with them. Group cooperation? I think getting a family through an airport would teach them more about that tbh

Religion teaches them moral values, social context to things going on in their lives like Santa and easter eggs and yet more vocabulary...

Religion teaches children that a wizard with a beard who loved his own son so much he killed him is the be all and end all of the universe. That things can be accepted "just because" or "because I / an ancient book/ says so". That's not education. It's the very, very opposite of it: indoctrination.

PE for teamwork, physical skills...I can go on and on, but I'm sure you get the point. It is ALL education. Even the breaks, where they learn to eat and behave in a social setting, and clean up after themselves.

Very naive to think those things are for distraction or babysitting purposes.

And it's very naieve to assume none of them would be done in the same time outside of a school environment. My daughter learns far more from me than she does from her playschool teacher, why? Because she gets far more one on one time with me and because I probably try to teach her more. My biggest worry about her starting junior infants is that she'll be bored out of her head because she already knows her alphabet, numbers, basic maths, and despite a total lack of any encouragement to do so, seems to be able to read.

Why then don't I keep her with me 24 / 7? Because I need to earn money to put a roof over her head and food on her plate. Division of labour is one of the cornerstone's of society's and a foundation upon which human development has occurred. I do what I'm good at, and people who are good at teaching large numbers of children at the same time do what they're good at and become teachers. And, like it or not, there's only so much they can cover with a large number of children to teach and 15 hours (before including for breaks and non-academic learning (i.e. the stuff a child will be learning on holidays too). It's not denigrating teachers to say this. I'm sure most teachers could cover a week's worth of junior or senior infants learning with a child in a morning in a one to one environment. Not being a qualified teacher, it might take me a bit longer but I don't see it as something that can't be done with your child by having a quick peak ahead in their books and using the lessons as something to pass the time when sitting in an airport lobby or beside a swimming pool.

Home schooled children to tend to do better academically after all. I'd not be a fan of it for fear of the lack of social interaction with peers that one gets in the school system even if I could afford to do it but a week out of a primary school year isn't going to cause those problems.

I agree that it's ALL learning: even building sand castles, playing in the pool and saying "Gracias" to the man who you bought the ice cream from

PS: Would love to see the number of you who thanked pwurples post that are teachers btw! If you're that quick to see an offence to your profession where none exists, I'd look at changing careers tbh, you've clearly no confidence in your abilities at it.

pwurple

thesimpsons wrote: »

think its very wrong to take children of any age out of school for holidays. A foreign holiday is not essential. I've seen so many of my nieces/nephews or friend's kids taken out in May/June on the basis that they don't do anything at this time of the year but they miss the memories of school tours, sports days, having class out in the garden on a nice day, etc.

by the way, one of my kids got 515 in leaving cert too - she only got D3 in english though. grammar is important but don't belittle the points of someone who isn't good in english but might be a master in maths/physics subjects.

Thesimpsons, I agree entirely with you, school shouldn't be missed. And my post wasn't directed at you, as your son wasn't on here bragging how well educated he was despite missing a load of school. It sounds like he actually attended and you have your head screwed on right. The poster 'tacofries' was doing that, and the post was directed at him/her. You can't claim to be well educated if you can't even string a simple sentence together.

pwurple

Sleepy wrote: »

And it's very naieve to assume none of them would be done in the same time outside of a school environment. My daughter learns far more from me than she does from her playschool teacher, why? Because she gets far more one on one time with me and because I probably try to teach her more. My biggest worry about her starting junior infants is that she'll be bored out of her head because she already knows her alphabet, numbers, basic maths, and despite a total lack of any encouragement to do so, seems to be able to read.

LOL! Thinly veiled My Child Is SUCH a GENUIS. Send them around, I need some help with my tax returns!

Sleepy wrote: »

I agree that it's ALL learning: even building sand castles, playing in the pool and saying "Gracias" to the man who you bought the ice cream from

No reason that can't be done during holidays, and then you get both. Win win.

Sleepy

lol, not at all. Most children can learn to read from about the age of 3 IME.

I've pro-actively encouraged the numbers and maths as it was something I struggled with in school and she seems to be similarly wired to how I was as a child. The alphabet and reading I'm pretty sure she's picked up from us doing our eldest's homework with him and encouraging his reading. Like most siblings, they're competitive and she gets a kick out of beating him to reading a word!

EDIT: just finished the latest Ross O' Carroll Kelly last night and read your post in Sorcha's voice!