Am I the only one who thinks removing the kids from school to go on hols in wrong?

Tombo2001

pwurple wrote: »

Since when did the foreign holiday become normal anyway? We went on hols in ireland mostly. Or twice ever, ferry to brittany.

The holiday home we stayed in this September was €450 a week, but in August it would have been €800 a week. Thats €700 over two weeks.

That was in Mayo.

I agree completely with the principal of the thing.

But a lot of people cant afford the extra.

And in general, in life, I find that the wealthier people are, the more principled and righteous they can afford to be......the likes of Bono and Angelina Jolie being prime examples.

OP, is your choice between paying extra or not paying extra. Or is your choice between not paying extra and not going. Rich persons dilemna or poor persons dilemna?

Stark

pwurple wrote: »

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about catholicism, as you've mentioned it in three posts. There are ET schools, COI schools and various other denomination schools available all over the country, and if those didn't suit either, there is no barrier to you either moving to an area with the schools you like, or joining with a group of like-minded people setting up their own school.

He's right about religion class being about indoctrination rather than education though.

Tombo2001

Stark wrote: »

He's right about religion class being about indoctrination rather than education though.

Plus, I hate when people say There are Educate Togethers if you dont like the RC......

yes there are, and you need to phone them directly from the Maternity Ward if you want to stand a chance of getting in, such are the queues. Our local Educate Together has 370 in a waiting list for 60 spots. one would think that might send a message out to someone in the DoE, but no.

planetX

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Plus, I hate when people say There are Educate Togethers if you dont like the RC......

yes there are, and you need to phone them directly from the Maternity Ward if you want to stand a chance of getting in, such are the queues. Our local Educate Together has 370 in a waiting list for 60 spots. one would think that might send a message out to someone in the DoE, but no.

not everywhere there aren't. People shouldn't assume because they live in a city that others have the same choices. I keep my child home from school if there's a big religious event on, but it still wastes a lot of school time.

Ickle Magoo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Plus, I hate when people say There are Educate Togethers if you dont like the RC......

yes there are, and you need to phone them directly from the Maternity Ward if you want to stand a chance of getting in, such are the queues. Our local Educate Together has 370 in a waiting list for 60 spots. one would think that might send a message out to someone in the DoE, but no.

We put our son's name down at birth...he was 17th on the list... :eek:

implausible

Speaking as a teacher here, it's not just the time out of school that's the issue, though it is the main one. The message being given to kids is that it's alright to skip school for a holiday, that being at school isn't important. Parental attitudes have a huge influence on kids - the mother who tells you "sure I was no good at Irish, how would my daughter be?" , the dad who lets his son stay in bed because he has a hangover, the kid who informs you that teachers know nothing anyway and the (usually) middle-class parent who tells you that little Johnny will miss nothing anyway and "sure if he does, you'll keep work for him, won't you?". The latter is on one hand completely devaluing your work and profession and on the other asking you to do extra 'nothing'!

I'm glad to see that there are parents on here who only take their kids out as a last resort and who bring them on educational holidays, but I can tell you, they're in a minority. The usual is a family going for a week in the sun and missing summer tests or kids whose parents are from another country disappearing for a month at a time, completely disrupting their learning and stalling progress in English. The irony is that in their home country, education is taken very seriously and 'failing' a year means having to repeat it.

cynder wrote: »

I know teachers who go on holidays during school term.

How the hell do they manage that? The only time off outside of school holidays and sick leave in secondary is for the funeral of a close relative or your own wedding!

byhookorbycrook

Sleepy wrote: »

So a child won't learn social skills making friends in the playground/pool of a holiday resort? They won't continue to learn through play or develop motor skills because they're not in a classroom environment?

.

My post was in answer to the one that said nothing much was done in infants classes.

gbee

implausible wrote: »

Speaking as a teacher here, it's not just the time out of school that's the issue, though it is the main one. The message being given to kids

See, there's your problem right there.

I've two issues with it, they are not spawns from goats and as children they WON'T have opinion and issues and certainly won't think like adults do.

cynder

implausible wrote: »

Speaking as a teacher here, it's not just the time out of school that's the issue, though it is the main one. The message being given to kids is that it's alright to skip school for a holiday, that being at school isn't important.



How the hell do they manage that? The only time off outside of school holidays and sick leave in secondary is for the funeral of a close relative or your own wedding!

Last year my daughter's teacher ( primary school) had a month off to go around south America. He didn't get married.

So far my 2 son's have had 3 different teachers each since September.

Now that's life, I have no issues with teachers having holidays or sick days.

implausible

gbee wrote: »

See, there's your problem right there.

I've two issues with it, they are not spawns from goats and as children they WON'T have opinion and issues and certainly won't think like adults do.

Apologies if the word 'kid' is so confusing; it's short for 'children' and quicker than typing 'children' or 'students' all the time.

Are you saying that children/students/young people don't have opinions? If so, when do you think they develop them and what do you think influences those opinions? In my experience, parents have a huge influence on how their offspring think. Taking them out of school willy-nilly gives the impression (consciously or subconsciously) that school is not important. Your progeny are like sponges.

golden lane

to miss school for a few weeks at a young age, will not have any affect whatsoever on a young childs future education......

but it may teach the child how to live and enjoy life, whilst living within your means.....

a very important lesson in today society....and the key to future happiness....

Tombo2001

gbee wrote: »

I've two issues with it, they are not spawns from goats and as children they WON'T have opinion and issues and certainly won't think like adults do.

So the Kids Halloween Costume I bought for my 4 year old last night is actually for a goat? How did Tesco and I get both confused on that.

Kids dont have opinions. Thats a good one.

Tombo2001

golden lane wrote: »

to miss school for a few weeks at a young age, will not have any affect whatsoever on a young childs future education......

but it may teach the child how to live and enjoy life, whilst living within your means.....

a very important lesson in today society....and they key to future happiness....

I think to be fair to implausible, that does completely devalue the profession.....

If your hypothetical boss said to you......you know what, nobody around here would miss you if you were gone for a month, your absence wouldnt make any difference to the long term health of the place.....how would you feel about it.

golden lane

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I think to be fair to implausible, that does completely devalue the profession.....

If your hypothetical boss said to you......you know what, nobody around here would miss you if you were gone for a month, your absence wouldnt make any difference to the long term health of the place.....how would you feel about it.

i don't "get" this reply to my post....??????

Tombo2001

golden lane wrote: »

i don't "get" this reply to my post....??????

well thats a pity as its fairly self explanatory.

golden lane

Tombo2001 wrote: »

well thats a pity as its fairly self explanatory.

yes, so is the bible........but what has it got to do with taking a holiday with children during school times.....????

gbee

Tombo2001 wrote: »

So the Kids Halloween Costume I bought for my 4 year old last night is actually for a goat? .

Don't demean yourself.

implausible

golden lane wrote: »

yes, so is the bible........but what has it got to do with taking a holiday with children during school times.....????

I think Tombo is trying to say that it devalues the profession of teaching to say that a child will miss nothing if s/he disappears for a few weeks i.e. the teacher will be doing nothing important. That would be akin to telling an employee in another sector that their work is not valued and s/he won't be missed.

Deise Vu

golden lane wrote: »

to miss school for a few weeks at a young age, will not have any affect whatsoever on a young childs future education......

but it may teach the child how to live and enjoy life, whilst living within your means.....

a very important lesson in today society....and the key to future happiness....

I agree that a few weeks missed won't make much difference and some of the teachers posting are deluded if they they think a week of their teaching is worth the €2K a family could save by travelling out of season.

However there are two crucial issues which need to be considered. The most obvious one is a few weeks on holidays every year added to sick days most definitely will make a difference to a child's education. Secondly, I very much doubt your children understand the economic reasons for taken in-term holidays and what you are probably teaching them is that if you can avoid things you don't like and do things you like and to hell with the consequences, then go right ahead. I'm not convinced that's a life lesson I'd like to inculcate in my children.

In my limited experience, it is usually the ones who can least afford to miss school who are the ones who take early holidays (and that's with all due respect to all you taking 'educational' holiday).

Tombo2001

implausible wrote: »

I think Tombo is trying to say that it devalues the profession of teaching to say that a child will miss nothing if s/he disappears for a few weeks i.e. the teacher will be doing nothing important. That would be akin to telling an employee in another sector that their work is not valued and s/he won't be missed.

Wasnt what I was trying to say, it was what I did say.........

Tombo2001

I'm sure the point has been made already,

There is the effect it has on the wider class.

Your kid is gone for two weeks.

Your kids best friend doesnt know what to do for two weeks when your kid is gone. And vice versa.

Tombo2001

gbee wrote: »

Don't demean yourself.

Fantastic advice, I'll remember not to.

byhookorbycrook

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/holidays-in-school-year-harm-pupils-education-211917.html

Jogathon

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/holidays-in-school-year-harm-pupils-education-211917.html

I see all the parents here not having strong views on this and I see anyone who has been involved in teaching or in the education field being quite definite in their view that it is a bad thing. Maybe people should listen to the professional educators on this one!

Mossess

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/holidays-in-school-year-harm-pupils-education-211917.html

The facts speak for themselves

cynder

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/holidays-in-school-year-harm-pupils-education-211917.html

Holidays in school year ‘harm pupils’ education’

By Niall Murray, Education Correspondent
Thursday, October 25, 2012
Parents who regularly take children out of school to avail of cheaper holidays risk damaging their education.
The warning comes as figures show the average primary pupil misses 11 days of the 183-day school year. The figure for second-level students is even higher, missing, on average, 13 of the 165 days of required attendance.

The National Education Welfare Board said that if a child missed school to go on a package holiday every year, they will have missed a full year’s education by the time they get to Leaving Certificate.

Dan O’Shea, Munster regional manager of the education and welfare board, said families were more prepared to take children out of school as the recession hit home.

"It’s a difficult choice to make," said Mr O’Shea. "We recognise that holidays are cheaper during school term and that’s regrettable. But the law says that it’s up to parents to ensure a child attends every day school is open.

"The average package holiday is 10 school days. But if a child is at school for eight years in primary and six at second level, they would miss 10 days every year for eight years of primary and six years of second level. That’s 140 days, the equivalent of almost a full year in school if you’re taking a package holiday during term every year."

The National Education Welfare Board is legally obliged to follow up and contact parents of any child who misses at least 20 days in any school year. About 31,400 primary and 24,700 second-level pupils miss school every day.

Mr O’Shea was speaking before the welfare board’s annual celebration of full attendance by children at Cork City schools. More than 70 young people were recognised for non-absences ranging from eight to 14 years, up slightly on recent years.

"They’re the fortunate group that have avoided any illness or family bereavement over many years at school and we realise there will be children absent for genuine reasons all the time," said Mr O’Shea.

"But, with effort and dedication, children can attain full attendance."

He said research had shown that children who attended and participated more regularly did better in later life, had greater job security, and were financially more secure.

Meanwhile, thousands of teachers marched on the Dáil yesterday against further education cuts.

Gerry Breslin, president of the second-level school union Asti, told about 2,000 supporters that education cuts affect children and young people’s lives today and in the future.

TUI president Gerry Craughwell warned that education cuts do not heal.

"Any further cuts to the education system will have a profound effect on our society, on our young people, and on our chances of economic recovery."

---

OK, I cant see here one single case of a child failing the leaving cert or junior cert, because they went on a holiday once a year for 8 years or 14 years or even 1 year, NOT 1. There are no stats, is just one guys opinion. There are plenty of kids who miss school more than 10 days a year for ilnesses and do fine.

With dedication they dont miss one day, BULL! you cant stop your child from getting sick, flu, colds, tummy bugs, strep throat, tonsilitus, chest infections and so on and on and on.

cynder

Mossess wrote: »

The facts speak for themselves

What facts there are no statistics in there, not one. my lady has 6 years left i'll come back with her results, but so far in secondary 1st year she has got mostly A's, a couple of B's, 1 C and 1 D. Business Studies, German, English,Technology being her best subjects (all A's), next up would be Maths and Irish (C and B's) and worst subject Science (D's).

gbee

Mossess wrote: »

The facts speak for themselves

Rubbish. TBH, just plain odd BS

"He said research had shown that children who attended and participated more regularly did better in later life, had greater job security, and were financially more secure. "

Total fabrication and fanciful rhetorical euphemistic fantasialand, ie utter nonescense .

We should call for the resignation of Mr O'Shea if indeed he has been quoted correctly, certainly not one to be in charge of anything educational

Sleepy

TBH, when I heard the story mentioned on Newstalk yesterday morning I assumed it was another case of a crack investigative journalist getting their stories from boards.ie yet again...

As already stated, it's an editorial piece that, as far as I can see, refers to the "research" of someone multiplying 10 by 14 and coming up with a straw man.

pwurple

You expect The Examiner to put in the research links as well?

Guys, come on, use the internet, yor're most of the way there. There are loads of these studies, all showing the same thing. And in fairness, I don't know why they continue to do them. I would have thought it was blatently obvious that missing out on two or three weeks every year would have an impact. There are 160 school days in a year. Assuming even that the child is never sick or never has a bereavement their whole school lives, taking the 10 days every year for a holiday every year over their lives is the equivalent of skipping a whole year. It makes a difference, whether you like it or not.

There are plenty of cases (especially in the travelling community) of children missing time and failing the junior cert. Children were historically taken out of school for farm-work, and there was an impact on the educational standards and of farmers long term.

Now, you can certainly argue that you know there is an impact, but the money is more important for your family. But saying there is no impact is just head-in-the-clouds.

It's all priorities. Everyone's are different.