The 9 to 5 falacy

fishy fishy

bluecode wrote: »

I worked office hours for nearly fourteen years. 8:30 to 5 with an early finish on Fridays. The fact is the OP is right. It can be soul destroying if you don't like your job and I hated it. But I had a plan that kept me going.

But the actual 9 to 5 cliche is rare these days more like 5:30 officially but who the hell gets off that early anymore. My wife supposedly works those hours but she almost never gets out on time. Finishing at 7 is relatively common. Someone who said you have 6.5 hours to spend obviously don't have long commute, don't need to eat dinner and never has to work late.

I worked shift for a few years. It's not bad. The long weeks are compensated for by the time off. But then again a lot of people can't cope with time off. They haven't a clue what to do with themselves. Their life is so wrapped up with their job. I note several on this thread.

The really bad thing about shifts is the night shift. I would have worked a month of nights followed by a month of days. It wears you down. If you can help it never work nights.

Fact of the matter is the eight hour day, five day week suits a lot of people. People who have quite a narrow focus in their lives. That's fine for them. They're prepared to settle for a compromise. For the rest of us we know we only get one shot at this life and sometimes you have to do things differently.

I can hardly imagine having to go to work every day and only having weekends off anymore. Been there done that, not going back.

what a weird statement to make. I don't think doing "shift work" is the result of "getting one shot at this life". Standing on an assembly line for twelve hours at a time does not constitute "a different" way of thinking.

Feeona

Internet Hero wrote: »

i dont have a job im studying and have plenty of time off and live near college so I have time to enjoy relaxed walks nice meals late at night cinema trips and having no strict routine. I am just Lookin at the future and thinkin how a 9 to 5 is the end of all of that and my life would be a long drawn out misery if that happened. even the 10% of time you had free would be lived with the weight if the 90% misery hangin over it. don't want that

"To the student who knows,
That to have one of those
Would be su-i-ciiiiiiide, ever'body sing!

Da da da da da da da da, da da da da da da da da, da da da da da da da da alright.
We're go-ing where the air is freeeeeeee"

fishy fishy

Internet Hero wrote: »

people get home around 6, allot get home at half 6. youve been up since 7 and working 9 to 5. then on top of that you dont like your job, its an obligation. that weighs on you and your not going to be artisticaly productive or able to commit to things that take more than a couple of hours as you have to be thinkin of getting home to get to bed so you can be up the next day.

the point is it isnt just 9 to 5 it is almost your whole life. i dont work im in college now but im wondering what im heading into and whats the point if it sucks as bad as it seems and you just work to stay alive and stay alive just to work. seems like a crazy way to spend your only life.

thats negative thinking and that can be rectified. It seems to me you might be afraid of a bit of work. Get stuck in, do your work and enjoy your weekends off, (much better than a monday or tuesday) your holiday/vacation time. You won't know yourself.

Not liking your job is a different story - if you don't like your job, fix it or move.

wilkie2006

bluecode wrote: »

But the actual 9 to 5 cliche is rare these days more like 5:30 officially but who the hell gets off that early anymore. My wife supposedly works those hours but she almost never gets out on time. Finishing at 7 is relatively common. Someone who said you have 6.5 hours to spend obviously don't have long commute, don't need to eat dinner and never has to work late.

I've never had a "nine to five" that's actually nine to five. Nine to seven or eight is pretty normal, even nine to 11pm or 12am happens more regularly than I'd like.

Internet Hero

fishy fishy wrote: »

thats negative thinking and that can be rectified. It seems to me you might be afraid of a bit of work. Get stuck in, do your work and enjoy your weekends off, (much better than a monday or tuesday) your holiday/vacation time. You won't know yourself.

Not liking your job is a different story - if you don't like your job, fix it or move.

i couldnt pour my life into a black hole of a job i dont like. id end up gettin depressed and dyin off.....

CruelCoin

Internet Hero wrote: »

alot of people work 9 to 5 jobs 5 days a week and dont enjoy there work. But the thing is a 9 to 5 job takes up your whole life, not just the hours if work. Outside of sleep work commute and preparing for it you have about 50 hours a week of life at the most.


you have to be up at 7 or something to get in on time so you cant stay up late or go out. you get home tired and have not much energy for something else, or maybe you have one thing you can fit in like gym or a film but the its late again and you have to be ready for next day.

a 9 to 5 takes your life. Faust got a better deal. you work to stay alive so you can work. working a 9 to 5 to life job in something you dont like is a self imposed prison sentence. or maybe not cos you have to do it no choice, life just isnt as good as people told you as a child, get over it?

If i didn't work i wouldn't have me uber pc, my twice yearly trips abroad (outside the fugging eu), my nice car, nice house, hobbies etc.

Fair enough, don't work. Stay at home in your bedsit with your ps3. I'll stay working tyvm.

Internet Hero

CruelCoin wrote: »

If i didn't work i wouldn't have me uber pc, my twice yearly trips abroad (outside the fugging eu), my nice car, nice house, hobbies etc.

Fair enough, don't work. Stay at home in your bedsit with your ps3. I'll stay working tyvm.

you cant do any hobbies. you dont have the time if you have a 9 to 5 job. you can do bits and pieces but youd never be really good at any of them...depressin

miamee

CruelCoin wrote: »

If i didn't work i wouldn't have me uber pc, my twice yearly trips abroad (outside the fugging eu), my nice car, nice house, hobbies etc.

Fair enough, don't work. Stay at home in your bedsit with your ps3. I'll stay working tyvm.

That's pretty much it - work or go on the dole. You'd have plenty of time and no money for hobbies on the dole but wages, paid holidays, work experience, opportunity for promotion (or transfer to a job you like better) when you have a job.

Internet Hero

miamee wrote: »

That's pretty much it - work or go on the dole. You'd have plenty of time and no money for hobbies on the dole but wages, paid holidays, work experience, opportunity for promotion (or transfer to a job you like better) when you have a job.

life is a big sucky catch 22 then. you either have time for hobbies but no money to afford them or a bit of money to afford them but no time (and a crushed soul from a gross job in many cases). wow, just realised life sucks and then you die! haha wish i was never born

Feeona

Internet Hero wrote: »

you cant do any hobbies. you dont have the time if you have a 9 to 5 job. you can do bits and pieces but youd never be really good at any of them...depressin

The problem is though while you're off work enjoying the few hobbies you CAN do without spending lots of money, your friends are at work. It gets very boring after a while believe me! The social aspect of work can never be underestimated.

bluecode

fishy fishy wrote: »

what a weird statement to make. I don't think doing "shift work" is the result of "getting one shot at this life". Standing on an assembly line for twelve hours at a time does not constitute "a different" way of thinking.

You need to re-read what I said. I don't advocate shift work as the answer. It might suit some alright. They use the time off for their hobbies whatever they may be. I know quite a few people like that. Their job is just a means to an end. To my mind anyone satisfied with the 9 to 5 grind is selling themselves short.

But my real point is that there are other ways of living your life. Someone mentioned Chef's hours. But many Chef's love their job. There are any number of examples. Any creative job, anyone running their own business. Most of the best and really interesting jobs don't operate office hours. My job doesn't feel like a job anymore.

Each to his own of course.

chrissb7

I'm a student as well and I personally will say you need work or some form of something.I did the whole "I don't know what I want to do with my life for a while" working the odd couple of 3 months here and there up until I was 20.It's a crap existence to have no routine and be bored sitting around demotivated and growing bored.How could you appreciate anything if you didn't have a bit of hardship. Life's only one shot and you should be happy in your job but the truth of the matter is that you're never going to 100% love everything. You make it out as if you're in a death sentence pigeon holed into one certain career.You're not at all. Working and having routine helps shape life and in all honesty does great things for your social life.Take this from a repeat L.C student who was in school from 8.45am til 9pm at night 5 days a week, cramming in one years work in one.Hardest and Best thing that ever happened to me.I had purpose and enjoyed Saturday and Sunday that much more.In my mind humans need to have drive and a purpose.Purpose comes with a drive to do something you want.So find that and you'll be flying.

Shenshen

Internet Hero wrote: »

people get home around 6, allot get home at half 6. youve been up since 7 and working 9 to 5. then on top of that you dont like your job, its an obligation. that weighs on you and your not going to be artisticaly productive or able to commit to things that take more than a couple of hours as you have to be thinkin of getting home to get to bed so you can be up the next day.

the point is it isnt just 9 to 5 it is almost your whole life. i dont work im in college now but im wondering what im heading into and whats the point if it sucks as bad as it seems and you just work to stay alive and stay alive just to work. seems like a crazy way to spend your only life.

Well, let's see, shall we?

I work 8 - 4.30 most days, my commute is about half an hour (traffice dependent).
On a regular day, I get up at around 6 (cause I need that long in the mornings), get to work for 8. I like doing my job, it's very involved and luckily a fairly "democratic" company. So I get to tailor my work, I get to work on improving processes, involved in a lot of projects, etc. The office is nice, I get along grand with most of my colleagues.
At lunch, I usually go for a nice walk, weather permitting. Currently, I go to yoga class once a week on my lunch break.

I get home around 5pm most days. After I feed the cats, I usually go for a swim for about an hour (will have to stop that soon, though, the sea is getting a bit nippy now ), then get home, shower and cook tea. I love cooking, one of my big, big hobbies.
One evening a week, I'm taking a pottery class, which lasts from 6 to 9.
On other evenings, I will do some work around the garden, another one of my hobbies.
Other than that, I would read, I paint, or I might go out with friends for a meal occasionally.

I'm usually in bed aroun 10pm.
I can honestly say that I do not feel that my artistic side is suffering from me having a job, on the contrary. I'm finding it highly inspiring, both in a positive and negative sense.
Work is part of my life, yes, but it's not my whole life. I don't spend my free time thinking about it, I spend it enjoying things I cannot do while at work.

Seriously, grow up. You sound like a spoilt child that's just been told it will in future have to help do the dishes or it won't get dessert.

Shenshen

Internet Hero wrote: »

you cant do any hobbies. you dont have the time if you have a 9 to 5 job. you can do bits and pieces but youd never be really good at any of them...depressin

You can't afford any hobbies unless you work.
Take your pick.

homemadecider

Am I the only one who enjoys their job? I have flexible working hours, great colleagues and very interesting and varied workload. I quite like going in in the mornings!

Internet Hero

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, let's see, shall we?


Seriously, grow up. You sound like a spoilt child that's just been told it will in future have to help do the dishes or it won't get dessert.

but this is what it really is haha you have to do the dishes and you can have the dessert when ur finished. but wait, the time to clean the dishes will take up most of the dessert eatin time and you probably wont want any dessert anyway cos youll be so depressed and tired. maybe you should just go to bed a die off!

fishy fishy

Internet Hero wrote: »

i couldnt pour my life into a black hole of a job i dont like. id end up gettin depressed and dyin off.....

sometimes you might have to do a job that you don't like in order to advance yourself to a job that you do like - it's called "life". Nobody gets their dream job handed to them on a plate unless daddy owns the business. You have to work to achieve what you want.

xpletiv

What job is actually 9-5 except for those poxy bankers and politicians and public servants?

Everyone I know with real jobs are 9-6.

fishy fishy

Internet Hero wrote: »

you cant do any hobbies. you dont have the time if you have a 9 to 5 job. you can do bits and pieces but youd never be really good at any of them...depressin

if that's your excuse, by all means believe it - the real world however, is a lot different.

laziness is a bad trait.

Shenshen

homemadecider wrote: »

Am I the only one who enjoys their job? I have flexible working hours, great colleagues and very interesting and varied workload. I quite like going in in the mornings!

I wouldn't say I love my job, as I said if I had the money I probably wouldn't do it.
But I like it well enough. It's fun, it's creative, it's challenging, I get on with my colleagues.
And I get paid for it. It's win-win, really.

The Cool

It's hardly as bad as some of ye are making out. I'm relatively new to the 9-5.30 craic. Before this it was retail, waitressing, deli cheffing - student summer or short term jobs that I stuck with for a few months at a time to save dosh for college. They were fine at the time because it was short term. But I couldnt stick any of those jobs long term. The whole craic of having to put in a request weeks in advance for a hope of having a weekend off, knowing your work timetable a week in advance, trying to organise getting together with your friends because you work every saturday night without fail... I think THAT is soul destroying.
Now, I'm out of the house from 7.50am to 6.50pm. I have my routine of 5 early mornings in a row and then two lie-ins. I know that I will always have Saturday and Sunday free, and my friends know this as well so they don't even need to ask if I'm working or not on such a day. My OH works 8.30-5 so it means that we have the same time off together which is lovely.

Shenshen

Internet Hero wrote: »

but this is what it really is haha you have to do the dishes and you can have the dessert when ur finished. but wait, the time to clean the dishes will take up most of the dessert eatin time and you probably wont want any dessert anyway cos youll be so depressed and tired. maybe you should just go to bed a die off!

Ok I have to rectify that.
Most children have more sense. Spending 10 minutes drying the dishes would not depress a child so badly it wouldn't want dessert any more.

I think at this point I should recommend professional help for you.

ChubbyHubby

bluecode wrote: »

But my real point is that there are other ways of living your life. Someone mentioned Chef's hours. But many Chef's love their job.

No they don't. Most chefs are stuck in a kitchen churning out food designed by the head chef. They'd be on their feet all day long as well as working unsociable hours.

There are any number of examples. Any creative job, anyone running their own business. Most of the best and really interesting jobs don't operate office hours. My job doesn't feel like a job anymore.

Yeah and how many creative jobs are out there and how many people can succeed in running their own business? Actually interesting or rewarding jobs outside of 9-5 is very rare and not open to the average person.

fishy fishy

bluecode wrote: »

You need to re-read what I said. I don't advocate shift work as the answer. It might suit some alright. They use the time off for their hobbies whatever they may be. I know quite a few people like that. Their job is just a means to an end. To my mind anyone satisfied with the 9 to 5 grind is selling themselves short.

But my real point is that there are other ways of living your life. Someone mentioned Chef's hours. But many Chef's love their job. There are any number of examples. Any creative job, anyone running their own business. Most of the best and really interesting jobs don't operate office hours. My job doesn't feel like a job anymore.

Each to his own of course.

you have a very narrow view of what a 9 - 5 job is then. Are you just thinking of bankers, and office workers - broaden your horizon and realize there are extremely interesting 9 - 5 jobs around - you just have to take the blinkers off.

of course there is plenty of time to socialize, do night classes, hobbies in the evening time, but then again some people thinks the day ends at 6 p.m.

Internet Hero

fishy fishy wrote: »

if that's your excuse, by all means believe it - the real world however, is a lot different.

laziness is a bad trait.

im not bein lazy i just love my hobbies now. im boxing and if i was trainin for a fight i wouldnt be able to get it all done in the time left over after a 9 to 5. id have to become a part timer and id be rubbish if i couldnt drill and do my cardio. its why most 55 year old men are husks of a human being, overweight boring and terrible at eveyrtin but there gross job

Internet Hero

Shenshen wrote: »

Ok I have to rectify that.
Most children have more sense. Spending 10 minutes drying the dishes would not depress a child so badly it wouldn't want dessert any more.

I think at this point I should recommend professional help for you.

doesnt add up, its not 10 mins, its most of your life doing the metaphorical dishes and then a few mins left over for after to eat dessert as you cry into your icecreams.

and i dont need help haha im happy now, just realisin how depressed others are and how depressed i will be in the future if i have a job like that

fishy fishy

Internet Hero wrote: »

im not bein lazy i just love my hobbies now. im boxing and if i was trainin for a fight i wouldnt be able to get it all done in the time left over after a 9 to 5. id have to become a part timer and id be rubbish if i couldnt drill and do my cardio. its why most 55 year old men are husks of a human being, overweight boring and terrible at eveyrtin but there gross job

get a trip - Im thinking you are a troll at this stage
syanora.

miamee

Internet Hero wrote: »

life is a big sucky catch 22 then. you either have time for hobbies but no money to afford them or a bit of money to afford them but no time (and a crushed soul from a gross job in many cases). wow, just realised life sucks and then you die! haha wish i was never born

The really smart people get a job doing their hobby

Shenshen

Internet Hero wrote: »

doesnt add up, its not 10 mins, its most of your life doing the metaphorical dishes and then a few mins left over for after to eat dessert as you cry into your icecreams.

and i dont need help haha im happy now, just realisin how depressed others are and how depressed i will be in the future if i have a job like that

Doing the dishes before enjoying dessert is 10 minutes.
Doing the work before enjoying your free time is half your day, with the other half being free time.

I would suggest you find a job you enjoy, and if possible not involving mathematics, you don't seem to have a very good grasp of simple figures.

Scanlas The 2nd

Internet Hero wrote: »

people get home around 6, allot get home at half 6. youve been up since 7 and working 9 to 5. then on top of that you dont like your job, its an obligation. that weighs on you and your not going to be artisticaly productive or able to commit to things that take more than a couple of hours as you have to be thinkin of getting home to get to bed so you can be up the next day.

the point is it isnt just 9 to 5 it is almost your whole life. i dont work im in college now but im wondering what im heading into and whats the point if it sucks as bad as it seems and you just work to stay alive and stay alive just to work. seems like a crazy way to spend your only life.

I used to have that attitude, now I found a job I like, so I'm happy. You can have fun in work too.

Shenshen

miamee wrote: »

The really smart people get a job doing their hobby

Or turn their job into their hobby. Either works well

Internet Hero

Shenshen wrote: »

Doing the dishes before enjoying dessert is 10 minutes.
Doing the work before enjoying your free time is half your day, with the other half being free time.

I would suggest you find a job you enjoy, and if possible not involving mathematics, you don't seem to have a very good grasp of simple figures.

ok its long established its not half your day. love how u got straight to insults though haha you seem happy for sure

jinxremoving

i used to think that too. but the reality of working a 9-5 is different than ideals. I dont hate my job, I dont love it. there are aspects i like which keep me going. eventually i'd like to work for myself but who knows. I am training for a marathon and baking a million things in evenings and weekends that keeps me going.

witchgirl26

Internet Hero wrote: »

you cant do any hobbies. you dont have the time if you have a 9 to 5 job. you can do bits and pieces but youd never be really good at any of them...depressin

Who says you can't have hobbies? I work 8.30 to 5 Mon to Fri & have a 30 min commute each way. I do an evening course in crafts one evening a week, I do other crafts at home too the other evenings and I’m not bad at them. I read a lot too, watch a couple of programs on tv, walk, swim, meet friends for dinner etc etc. Your time is what you make of it.

And yes I’ve had the terrible long commute & the overtime in work before and I still managed to keep on top of my hobbies and interests as well as make time for friends. It’s called a work/life balance. Can take a while to figure it out but you do coz you go mad otherwise. I work to live not live to work.

Shenshen

Internet Hero wrote: »

ok its long established its not half your day. love how u got straight to insults though haha you seem happy for sure

How is it not half your day?
I get up at 6, I got to bed at 10, that's 16 hours, give or take. Of those 16 hours, I work 7.5, 8 - 4.30 with 1 hour lunch. Factoring in my commute of 1 hour a day, I spend pretty much half my day with work-related activities. The other half I can do what I like.

As I said, stay away from any job requiring maths. Or spelling.

bluecode

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

No they don't. Most chefs are stuck in a kitchen churning out food designed by the head chef. They'd be on their feet all day long as well as working unsociable hours.

Yeah and how many creative jobs are out there and how many people can succeed in running their own business? Actually interesting or rewarding jobs outside of 9-5 is very rare and not open to the average person.

To use a cliche, if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. There is no such thing as an average person. If I got myself out from under a boring tedious nine to fiver anyone can. That's a rather defeatist attitude. Is that all you're prepared to settle for?

you have a very narrow view of what a 9 - 5 job is then. Are you just thinking of bankers, and office workers - broaden your horizon and realize there are extremely interesting 9 - 5 jobs around - you just have to take the blinkers off.

of course there is plenty of time to socialize, do night classes, hobbies in the evening time, but then again some people thinks the day ends at 6 p.m.

Very few of the interesting 9-5 jobs are really 9-5. Yes I know there are interesting jobs with office hours. But a lot of them are not, yes banking, civil service where people are just time serving. Not a life I'd like.

Internet Hero

Shenshen wrote: »

How is it not half your day?
I get up at 6, I got to bed at 10, that's 16 hours, give or take. Of those 16 hours, I work 7.5, 8 - 4.30 with 1 hour lunch. Factoring in my commute of 1 hour a day, I spend pretty much half my day with work-related activities. The other half I can do what I like.

As I said, stay away from any job requiring maths. Or spelling.

your being obtuse and internet agressive so im just putting you on ignore. if you had a point that wasnt already adressed and refuted itd be ok but your stuck on page one of what im on about and throwin out insults so bye bye

BizzyC

9 to 5???

It's a falacy alright, I work 7 to 6....

Feeona

Internet Hero wrote: »

ok its long established its not half your day. love how u got straight to insults though haha you seem happy for sure

There are people on here trying to tell you how a working life isn't all bad, and you come back with that? It makes you sound like a waster with a superiority complex!

Jaysus, people like you are a pain in the ar*e!

Shenshen

Internet Hero wrote: »

your being obtuse and internet agressive so im just putting you on ignore. if you had a point that wasnt already adressed and refuted itd be ok but your stuck on page one of what im on about and throwin out insults so bye bye

In short, you don't want ot hear anything about the real world.
You are happy to call everyone working a 9 to 5 job unartistic, depressed, boring, unfit and pathetic, and stick two fingers in your ears when people are trying to show you some facts.
After insulting a sizeable part of the working population of this country, you now act the hurt innocence when you cannot bend the numbers to make them show what you want them to.

Yes, I think I'll take being ignored by you as a compliment, thank you.

fishy fishy

bluecode wrote: »

To use a cliche, if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. There is no such thing as an average person. If I got myself out from under a boring tedious nine to fiver anyone can. That's a rather defeatist attitude. Is that all you're prepared to settle for?


Very few of the interesting 9-5 jobs are really 9-5. Yes I know there are interesting jobs with office hours. But a lot of them are not, yes banking, civil service where people are just time serving. Not a life I'd like.

would not be for me either. but check out alternative 9 - 5 - you will be surprised.

Which would you prefer blue code

a 9 - 5 job in an office with weekends off, etc.

or 12 hour shifts standing on an assembly line.

Assembly line work, although not 9 - 5 would be the most mind wrecking job in my opinion. Who cares if you have three days off in a row - you would probably using them learning how to think again.

YFlyer

The lab technician here at the university work from 9 till 5.

They are in at 9. Have two coffee breaks of 30 minutes each and an hour lunch break. Out the door by 5.

These breaks can vary so they can manage to get time to go to the gym or a lunch time run.

mariaalice

If anyone is interested they should look up the term wage slave....also look up the right to useful unemployment


When the first factories were build they had to pay high wages to get people to go an work in them, not because they were horrible places which they were...it was because people were giving up their Independence to be there own master.... because when you went in to the factory you were no longer a craft man ( self employed in modern terms ) making something with your own labour which you then sold...people were well aware how giving up weaving cloth in your home and going in to a factory to weave cloth for a wage was a lowering of your status in society.

Internet Hero

Feeona wrote: »

There are people on here trying to tell you how a working life isn't all bad, and you come back with that? It makes you sound like a waster with a superiority complex!

Jaysus, people like you are a pain in the ar*e!

he was bein mean to me. i wasnt insulting him and he was sayin mean stuff back at me for no reason im not a waster, in col and im insecure but not superiotity complex!

Feeona

Internet Hero wrote: »

he was bein mean to me. i wasnt insulting him and he was sayin mean stuff back at me for no reason im not a waster, in col and im insecure but not superiotity complex!

Ok, but it did seem that you were giving him a hard time for nothing ya numpty!

CruelCoin

Internet Hero wrote: »

you cant do any hobbies. you dont have the time if you have a 9 to 5 job. you can do bits and pieces but youd never be really good at any of them...depressin

I get home at 5:20 and don't go to bed untill 2am. Thats 9 bloody hours.....

I get a cleaning lady in for a bit each week, and she does more in her 3 hours than i can do in tripple that time. Mega free time boost tha one.

I have all the time in the world!

Shenshen

Feeona wrote: »

Ok, but it did seem that you were giving him a hard time for nothing ya numpty!

She. I'm female. Rare on the internet, but take my word for it

Feeona

Shenshen wrote: »

She. I'm female. Rare on the internet, but take my word for it

And I thought I was here on my own shouting into the wind :pac:

CruelCoin

Shenshen wrote: »

She. I'm female. Rare on the internet, but take my word for it

http://venturevillage.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/woman-copy.jpg

SteelyDanJalapeno

Internet Hero wrote: »

im not bein lazy i just love my hobbies now. im boxing and if i was trainin for a fight i wouldnt be able to get it all done in the time left over after a 9 to 5. id have to become a part timer and id be rubbish if i couldnt drill and do my cardio. its why most 55 year old men are husks of a human being, overweight boring and terrible at eveyrtin but there gross job

I'm guessing your pretty young and pessismistic at this stage, some people have more important things in there life to be concerned about than optimizing their time around they're "hobbies".