The 9 to 5 falacy

SteelyDanJalapeno

Shenshen wrote: »

She. I'm female. Rare on the internet, but take my word for it

PM'D

Shenshen

CruelCoin wrote: »

http://venturevillage.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/woman-copy.jpg

Feeona

TiltedBrain wrote: »

I'm guessing your pretty young and pessismistic at this stage, some people have more important things in there life to be concerned about than optimizing their time around they're "hobbies".

TiltedBrain wrote: »

PM'D

Obviously :P

suicide_circus

I envy 9-5ers.
Firstly i work 9 hour shifts, not 8, with unpaid break and secondly it's shift work and i start work at 4am pretty regularly. Plays havoc with sleep patterns, mood, energy, private and social life.

Shenshen

suicide_circus wrote: »

I envy 9-5ers.
Firstly i work 9 hour shifts, not 8, with unpaid break and secondly it's shift work and i start work at 4am pretty regularly. Plays havoc with sleep patterns, mood, energy, private and social life.

I can imagine. I used to work shifts in factories during summer break while I was at school and university, and even temporarily, it's not easy.
I remember being constantly tired when I was supposed to be wide awake, and I could never sleep when I needed to.

westendgirlie

pickarooney wrote: »

Who works 9 to 5? That would mean a 35-hour week or getting paid to have lunch.

Me! Get paid for 37.5 hrs. Take 1/2 hour lunch each day

daigo75

To OP: as most people already answered, living in a routine is what most people expect and, as you have read yourself, many of them like it, because they found a way to make it work for them. Some people I met keep telling me that "it's not life, it's mental conditioning", but the truth is that there is no absolute truth. I know people who work 4AM to 1AM every day, Monday to Sunday, taking care of cattle, and would never trade it for a "boring job where you produce nothing, just sit in front of a stupid computer" (their definition).

The key is finding something you like to do, and see if you can make it your job. You don't want to work 9 to 5, but you're already sticking to a daily routine: your boxing practice. If you were proposing the same activity to me, I'd tell you that I find it boring and pointless. I'd rather go out in my garden and prepare the beds for spring, or chop some wood for this winter. It's exercise and it also produces something. This is simply to show that it all depends on the individuals.

About a method to be completely free, you have several options:
- Focus on becoming a professional boxer. I don't know your proficiency level, but, since you seem to like it, it may be a career.
- Find a hobby that you like a lot (apart from boxing) and see if it's marketable. If it is, you might have found a job that will feel like a breeze to you.
- Start your own business. This is how many people try to "escape the 9 to 5", by attempting to become their own bosses. This is a complex topic (there are dozens of ways to start a business), and you must always keep in mind that, even in best case, you will have to work much more than just 9 to 5, at least at the beginning, to make business to take off. Then you will have enough money to delegate most of the work and you will finally be "free" (yet, still with all the responsibilities deriving from being a business owner).

Internet Hero

daigo75 wrote: »

About a method to be completely free, you have several options:
- Focus on becoming a professional boxer. I don't know your proficiency level, but, since you seem to like it, it may be a career.
- Find a hobby that you like a lot (apart from boxing) and see if it's marketable. If it is, you might have found a job that will feel like a breeze to you.
- Start your own business. This is how many people try to "escape the 9 to 5", by attempting to become their own bosses. This is a complex topic (there are dozens of ways to start a business), and you must always keep in mind that, even in best case, you will have to work much more than just 9 to 5, at least at the beginning, to make business to take off. Then you will have enough money to delegate most of the work and you will finally be "free" (yet, still with all the responsibilities deriving from being a business owner).

im too slow to be a pro haha dont have the genes. dont have any hobbies i can make money from. cant start my own business, dont understand business

everyone hates there job

mariaalice

Internet Hero wrote: »

im too slow to be a pro haha don't have the genes. dont have any hobbies i can make money from. cant start my own business, dont understand business

everyone hates there job

If you like the gym and boxing why not become a gym instructor.

pastorbarrett

I don't think it's necessary to equate a sense of purpose with the monetary gains/ success it may potentially provide. The reality is, and I hope continues to be, is that plenty of people in this country are engaged in activities (yes, mostly of the artistic/ sporting variety-and I'm not one of them) on a full-time basis at the expense of the state and often themselves too. They enrich our country and are wholly necessary to our sense of culture. It's no more or less meaningful than working the traditional 9-5. Whatever floats your boat.

daigo75

Internet Hero wrote: »

im too slow to be a pro haha dont have the genes. dont have any hobbies i can make money from. cant start my own business, dont understand business

everyone hates there job

I'm not, I don't, I can't, I don't. I think you can see for yourself that this is not an attitude that will bring you anywhere.

And, by the way, not everybody hates their job, I know a lot of people who really love it. Perhaps you don't know anyone who does, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. After all, you just wrote "you don't, can't, you're not", at least you should recognise that your view is currently limited. Take the chance to expand it.

daigo75

meridiangroup wrote: »

I don't think it's necessary to equate a sense of purpose with the monetary gains/ success it may potentially provide.

My point was simply to show that there are many ways not to feel in a 9 to 5 "prison". Success and income are absolutely secondary to having a purpose and feeling fulfilled.

pastorbarrett

Fair point. I think the key here is if you can sustain yourself doing something that is meaningful to you, then you're one of the lucky ones and onto a winner.

Agricola

The majority of people love routine in their life. Its been hammered into us since we started going to school every morning for 9am. Its a bit like religion that way, everyones indoctrinated from a young age and so most see it as something to aspire to, or at the very least are happy to go along with.

Funnily enough, most people who suddenly get a large windfall of cash, drop their previously highly sought after 40 hour a week routine and spend their days in the Caribbean sipping cocktails on the beach! They might opt for a much reduced workload, "just to keep busy" and it would usually be in an area they are interested in, their new found wealth allowing them to indulge themselves in new opportunities.

So yeah I agree. In an ideal world we could all work 25 hour weeks, get paid the same as we do now, and avoid having to be gone out of the house for 12 hours a day due to commutes, extra work, etc etc, as many many people do. But sadly, this is no utopia.

Feeona

Agricola wrote: »

Funnily enough, most people who suddenly get a large windfall of cash, drop their previously highly sought after 40 hour a week routine and spend their days in the Caribbean sipping cocktails on the beach!

But it's worth nothing really if you can't bring your friends and family with you*. Starting life all over again in the Caribbean sounds ideal, but you'd miss so much about home even if you do come from a rain soaked land like ours! Money is great alright, but it can never replace the relationships you've built up.

*general 'you'

Lollipops23

I get into work between 8 and 8.20, having gotten up at 7/ten past 7.

I leave at half 5 sharp and am home no later than 6.15pm. I have plenty of free time, and don't feel like I'm in a "prison"....

Internet Hero

theres these depressed overweight 50 year olds who come home exausted each day from work and just eat a fatty microwav diner and then just sit there wishin they had not lived past age 20.

I am scared of all that kind of thing

SEANoftheDEAD

I work 9-5... fall out of bed at 8.30...
Home at 5.15...

Gym, band practice and 2/3 nights out a week are a regular thing. And I get to see all the Manchester United matches...

Prison? Nah

optimistic_

Internet Hero wrote: »

alot of people work 9 to 5 jobs 5 days a week and dont enjoy there work. But the thing is a 9 to 5 job takes up your whole life, not just the hours if work. Outside of sleep work commute and preparing for it you have about 50 hours a week of life at the most.


you have to be up at 7 or something to get in on time so you cant stay up late or go out. you get home tired and have not much energy for something else, or maybe you have one thing you can fit in like gym or a film but the its late again and you have to be ready for next day.

a 9 to 5 takes your life. Faust got a better deal. you work to stay alive so you can work. working a 9 to 5 to life job in something you dont like is a self imposed prison sentence. or maybe not cos you have to do it no choice, life just isnt as good as people told you as a child, get over it?

Welcome to your teens.
Next you should read Animal Farm and tell people how deeply political you are.

steve9859

Internet Hero wrote: »

theres these depressed overweight 50 year olds who come home exausted each day from work and just eat a fatty microwav diner and then just sit there wishin they had not lived past age 20.

I am scared of all that kind of thing

Well, that's not an inevitable consequence of having an office job! People such as you describe have let that happen to them, and really only have themselves to blame.

Around 40% of the days of the year you have no work at all, and those on which you do work you have a good few hours free. Anyone that can't build a meaningful life around those constraints is either lazy or has zero imagination

optimistic_

Internet Hero wrote: »

theres these depressed overweight 50 year olds who come home exausted each day from work and just eat a fatty microwav diner and then just sit there wishin they had not lived past age 20.

I am scared of all that kind of thing

Well the trick is to have a fulfilling personal life.
Exercise. Socialise. Sexualise.

Sofiztikated

Internet Hero wrote: »

im not bein lazy i just love my hobbies now. im boxing and if i was trainin for a fight i wouldnt be able to get it all done in the time left over after a 9 to 5. id have to become a part timer and id be rubbish if i couldnt drill and do my cardio. its why most 55 year old men are husks of a human being, overweight boring and terrible at eveyrtin but there gross job

Internet Hero wrote: »

theres these depressed overweight 50 year olds who come home exausted each day from work and just eat a fatty microwav diner and then just sit there wishin they had not lived past age 20.

I am scared of all that kind of thing

I know a 54 year old, and he's just 2nd or 3rd in a Half Ironman competition. He averages 50 odd hours a week at work, and works out and trains in his off time, along with traveling, learning new skills, eating, drinking, wining and dining eligible wimmenz and the like.

Get over it. Or stop trolling.

Tasden

I love my job! Started off volunteering and now work there nine to five, work weekends elsewhere as the pay isn't too great especially when I've childcare to pay for but i can say hand on heart i enjoy every second i am there! My closest friends work with me and i get to help people every day so can't complain about it taking up all my time

Lollipops23

Internet Hero wrote: »

a 9 to 5 takes your life. Faust got a better deal. you work to stay alive so you can work. working a 9 to 5 to life job in something you dont like is a self imposed prison sentence. or maybe not cos you have to do it no choice, life just isnt as good as people told you as a child, get over it?

In two weeks I'm going on the holiday of a lifetime- due to the fact that I have a good job and can thus afford to.

I also enjoy a healthy social life, and my health is ten times better than when I was in college as I take much better care of myself (8hours sleep and eating less junk).

I've worked retail jobs with less sociable hours and I have to say it killed my soul. It's depressing enough when you're in a job you hate, but when you can't even go out on the weekend with your friends it's hard not to get depressed.
All in all I'm much much happier and healthier doing the 9-5 drudge than any other job I've done.

omega man

The fallacy is that 9 to 5 exits any more. i would say most people considered to work 9 to 5 actually work office/business core hours which could mean any combination from 8 to 6 with a mix of early starts and/or late finishes occasionally. i worked shift over a 24/7 365 roster for years, yes great days off but poor sleep patterns and an ulcer later i made the switch. with kids its a plus for me and i can plan my life in advance (holidays, family gatherings and events etc). in many cases though i imagine the loss of shift pay would be a factor for not switching. so many variables involved really to say which lifestyle is better.

optimistic_

Actually just to add to lollipop above, I work a standard 9-5 (occasionally 8 or 9pm depending on what needs to be done), I study part time so in a lot of weekends for full 9 to 5 days, and two four hour sessions during the week after work, and then study on top of this – I still consider my life pretty fulfilling as I squeeze in social life, good friends, family, exercise, sleep well – And safe in the knowledge when I’m finished my studies my quality of life will improve further.
So I return to the earlier post and welcome the OP to his teens, and if he’s in his 20s wish him luck as a late bloomer.

Enjoy the anxiety. It passes when you grow up.

CruelCoin

Internet Hero wrote: »

theres these depressed overweight 50 year olds who come home exausted each day from work and just eat a fatty microwav diner and then just sit there wishin they had not lived past age 20.

I am scared of all that kind of thing

Most of those in the example you give would have done nothing when they were younger to avoid that situation.

To enjoy your older years you have to work bloody hard in your younger years.

Short of winning the lotto/getting a large inheritance, i fear you are setting yourself up to be exactly that kind of person....

kowloon

I have to get up 2 hours before I go to bed and do a 60 hour shift in the mine for tuppence. I get 10 minutes for lunch, a month and only get a thimble of stagnant water and the hair from a rat's arse in mouldy bread. And I'm glad I have it this good!

fishy fishy

Agricola wrote: »

The majority of people love routine in their life. Its been hammered into us since we started going to school every morning for 9am. Its a bit like religion that way, everyones indoctrinated from a young age and so most see it as something to aspire to, or at the very least are happy to go along with.

Funnily enough, most people who suddenly get a large windfall of cash, drop their previously highly sought after 40 hour a week routine and spend their days in the Caribbean sipping cocktails on the beach! They might opt for a much reduced workload, "just to keep busy" and it would usually be in an area they are interested in, their new found wealth allowing them to indulge themselves in new opportunities.

So yeah I agree. In an ideal world we could all work 25 hour weeks, get paid the same as we do now, and avoid having to be gone out of the house for 12 hours a day due to commutes, extra work, etc etc, as many many people do. But sadly, this is no utopia.

completely disagree - sipping cocktails in carribbean is okay for a few weeks, but it becomes quite boring. People need some sort of structure or reason to get up no matter how rich or poor they are. Sipping cocktails in the carribbean just wouldn't do it for somebody that had a brain in their head. It would be the same as sitting at home doing nothing.

KyussBishop

Work to live, not live to work. There's not really any particular reason why work hours couldn't be reduced, even to 20 hours a week or so; it's the cost of living, the distribution of money/profits, and the state of the labour market (high unemployment, little bargaining power), among many other things, that makes conditions unsuitable for it.

Meeting rent/mortgage costs are going to be one of the bigger cost of living factors which will eat up your income long term, which you simply can't avoid, and there's no reason why they need to be as high as they have been and still are now; this is a big factor in the cost of living (and thus, high working hours) which is perfectly adjustable.
This and many other aspects of the cost of living (oil, food, and other unavoidable essentials) are often heavily manipulated (directly or indirectly) by economic 'rent seekers', who look to make unearned profits without corresponding effort, and all this can be tackled if there was simply the political will for it (much of it just isn't even on the radar of political discussion).

A good work ethic is important and very desirable (even better when you love the work you do, and are happy working well above needed hours), but it makes you a sucker when you're working hard just to subsist, or when you're disproportionately padding the pockets of a corporate hierarchy, or multiple layers of economic 'rent seekers'.

People should have the freedom of being able to attain a good life without needing to dedicate an excessive amount of their time to get there, and those that put in that extra time should be well rewarded for it; unearned income and economic rent seeking should be stamped out, because distribution of money is a zero-sum game, where someone else (often many people) have to lose, in order for someone to win an unearned gain.

HeyThereDeliah

Internet Hero wrote: »

theres these depressed overweight 50 year olds who come home exausted each day from work and just eat a fatty microwav diner and then just sit there wishin they had not lived past age 20.

I am scared of all that kind of thing

You are scared of being old fat and alone ?

Life is what you make it, you are young and your future is in your own hands, it can be fun exciting and worth living or it can be dull and boring, the choice is always yours.
Don't knock the 9/5 job until you have experienced other jobs first, it's really not that bad at all. Having to choose that or sit at home all day I think most of us would go with the 9/5.

renofan

I'm in an office job since June '98 and my hours are usually 9 to 6. Plus up till august last year I drove 56 miles to work. Worked for the day and then drove 56 miles home. Man I loved it! Rarely home before half 7. Was okish during the summer but rotten in the winter. I moved last year so now it only takes from 20 to 30 mins to get to work. So now I'm home between 20 past to half 6 and not tired from the driving. I didn't realise how tired I really was until I moved.

07Lapierre

BizzyC wrote: »

9 to 5???

It's a falacy alright, I work 7 to 6....

Why? If your work hours are 9am - 5pm why do you start at 7 and finish at 6pm?

griffdaddy

I get up around seven
Get outta bed around nine
I don't worry about nothin' no
Cause worryin's a waste of my, time

YFlyer

pickarooney wrote: »

Who works 9 to 5? That would mean a 35-hour week or getting paid to have lunch.

Lab technicians at colleges get two hours break a day.

YFlyer

kowloon wrote: »

I have to get up 2 hours before I go to bed and do a 60 hour shift in the mine for tuppence. I get 10 minutes for lunch, a month and only get a thimble of stagnant water and the hair from a rat's arse in mouldy bread. And I'm glad I have it this good!

You Lucky Bastard

Cabbage_Head

If you couldn't handle a 9-5 job then you certainly aren't cut out to be a farmer, 5.30am til 6 or 7pm 365 days a year. And during calving season, your on call 24/7.

And you can't leave your workboots at the door, theres always worry on your mind, will the sick calf make it through the night, is the fencing around your sheep REALLY that secure, please stop raining or else everything i have will be destroyed.

9-5 are fantastic working hours, its like being in school except now you have no homework and more money. What's to be afraid of? you really think arsing around in college watching jeremy kyle by day and drinking cans by night can really last forever?

bluecode

fishy fishy wrote: »

would not be for me either. but check out alternative 9 - 5 - you will be surprised.

Which would you prefer blue code

a 9 - 5 job in an office with weekends off, etc.

or 12 hour shifts standing on an assembly line.

Assembly line work, although not 9 - 5 would be the most mind wrecking job in my opinion. Who cares if you have three days off in a row - you would probably using them learning how to think again.

Fishy fishy, I've done both and hated both. On the assembly line, 3 days, 12 hours a day. Nightmare even with weekends off. You worked flat out except for your breaks. So I know all about it. I did have another job shift job which was alright for the most part and another 9 -5 job. The 9 to 5 was easily the best I had because I wasn't tied to the office. It was at Dublin airport. Part of it involved driving people around and going off myself on any excuse.

But all told, I prefer my current job even though it has it's downsides. I can work 12 to 16 hours a day, sometimes eight days in a row and lots of weekends. Then I can be off for weeks without pay. But it beats my old office job hands down. People actually envy me and tell me I have the best job in the world. I don't think so.

Horses for courses. If you like routine of 9-5 and accept the compromises Then go for it.

Not for me.

Madam_X

jester77 wrote: »

No one is forced to work in a job they don't like. If you don't like your job then get off your ass and get a job you like

They are stuck until they find something they'd prefer - can take a long time. Also, with kids and a mortgage etc it's not a light decision to move jobs; would have to be similar pay and other conditions on offer. Not always feasible. Definitely not always feasible to retrain part-time when those factors are there. A person could also have a job they initially don't mind, but after 15 years and changes within the company they may go off it. It's not as simplistic as you say. I agree with you a person should try being as positive and proactive as they can be, but there are cold realities too.

Ah look, I thought the same as the OP when I was his age (a child) too, but then I grew up and experienced reality. Office hours with every or most weekend off is the biz. Having worked jobs with shifts ending at 11pm and on the weekends (and I know that isn't even the worst) I'm still so delighted about my work hours these days: earliest start - 8am, latest finish - 6pm; no weekends apart from very occasional on-call work from home for just a short while.
What alternative to making a living would you suggest OP? I mean, you need an income for doing a lot of enjoyable stuff in your free time.

fishy fishy

bluecode wrote: »

Fishy fishy, I've done both and hated both. On the assembly line, 3 days, 12 hours a day. Nightmare even with weekends off. You worked flat out except for your breaks. So I know all about it. I did have another job shift job which was alright for the most part and another 9 -5 job. The 9 to 5 was easily the best I had because I wasn't tied to the office. It was at Dublin airport. Part of it involved driving people around and going off myself on any excuse.

But all told, I prefer my current job even though it has it's downsides. I can work 12 to 16 hours a day, sometimes eight days in a row and lots of weekends. Then I can be off for weeks without pay. But it beats my old office job hands down. People actually envy me and tell me I have the best job in the world. I don't think so.

Horses for courses. If you like routine of 9-5 and accept the compromises Then go for it.

Not for me.

sounds like a complete nightmare.

Emeraldy Pebbles

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Work should be your fun as Stephen Fry says

It's easy for an upper-middle class well-connected twonk to say that.

Capt'n Midnight

Internet Hero wrote: »

alot of people work 9 to 5 jobs 5 days a week and dont enjoy there work.

Never had a 9 to 5 job.

On paper I've had 37.5 hour / 40 hour jobs but the nature of IT is that you spend a lot of extra time even at home related to it.

dgt

7 till 4 job during weekdays, along with weekend jobs and college.

No excuse whinging about a 9-5, I love how things are at the moment

Sorcha16

Work thread on Boards = My-job-is-tougher-than-yours contest

B.A._Baracus

I used to work in 11850 years ago. 12 hour shifts - work 3 days one week, then 4 days the next. Get paid every two weeks. Was off the weekend (having to work the odd saturday once is a blue moon)

It was actually grand. Sure you wouldnt have a life on the working days. But the 3/4 days off made up for it. Could still go out at the weekend. Pay was actually decent.

.. ony problem was that the amount of calls you would take per day were unreal. We had a system where we could check our "stats" to see if we would get a pay bonus. Personal record of answering 1100+ calls in one shift. Looking back I dont know how I, or anyone on my team managed it. No wonder we all quit.

neemish

35 hours a week - but rarely 9-5. Most evenings and weekends. Generally never have an evening at home mid week. Mind you, there is the odd lie on to make up for it - well sometimes. But its a job and I can pay the bills and even have a bit of craic after that, so eff it

Cabbage_Head

When I was in university the one thing I most looked forward to was getting a job with set work hours so that i could develop a routine. Routine is good!

Theres a big difference in making your own routine (organising things around your job) and being beat into following a routine (when in school and living with your parents)

who_me

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Never had a 9 to 5 job.

On paper I've had 37.5 hour / 40 hour jobs but the nature of IT is that you spend a lot of extra time even at home related to it.

Someone recently commented to me that some companies and some countries have different work cultures. Some are more relaxed, where there might be flexi-time, and no problem if you want to check out the internet for a quick browse; but you often end up working longer hours. In others, you work the precise 8 hours per day never more, but while at work you're working for every minute of it.

IT often tends to be the former, and if there's no division between work and home it can really be exhausting. My longest 'shift' was 10am to 7pm the following day, and after days like that you really get sick of the job regardless of what you're doing or whatever perks it could offer.

Now, I focus on working harder during the day, and getting away earlier and not thinking about work. And I'm a lot happier for it. Apart from now, when I'm on the Internet... but shush... say nothing.

It is a pity we spend the best days of our lives inside, sitting at a desk, making money so we can retire when we're too feeble to enjoy the time off and freedom..

steve9859

who_me wrote: »

It is a pity we spend the best days of our lives inside, sitting at a desk, making money so we can retire when we're too feeble to enjoy the time off and freedom..

Assume that the average person sleeps for 7 hours a night. And there are 10 days bank holiday, and 25 days annual leave

So there are 225 days of work in a year, out of 365. 61.6% of days are work days.

Say you work for 8 hours a day and travel for 2. That is 10 hours of your 17 waking hours.

That means you would be working for 36% of your time that you are not in bed in a year. Less than 3 hours in 10 if you live near the office or work your 8 hours a day from home

Personally, I don't think that that is particularly excessive. That is loads of time to do stuff....hobbies, holidays etc.

I have an office job. but certainly dont feel that I am spending the best days of my life inside. I'm out and about doing stuff every day...

Fighting Irish

Irishcrx wrote: »

All pretty true , but in general 9-5 pays better than shift work and I get my weekend's free to play and watch football on a Saturday and do as little as possible on a Sunday rather than not having any weekends to myself. I'm happy with this arrangement.

you work 40 hours a week just so you can watch football and laze about? seems like a fairly sh1t deal to me