Modding a pump shotgun; what is allowed?

mayhem#

I have a Mossberg 500 which I would like to mod a bit by adding a telescopic (not folding) buttstock, a picatinny rail and a vertical handgrip on the fore-end.
No idea which one of these are allowed so would appreciate some input.

Witcher

Need a restricted licence for the telescopic stock and depending on how the Gardai see it possibly one for a pistol grip foreend too.

Sparks

They're all allowed; but the telescoping buttstock will require you to get a restricted licence and you'll have to be sure the overall length doesn't fall below 60cm.
Also, the pistol grip might fall foul of the Idontlikethelookofthat test (and since the SI just says a pistol grip, and doesn't mention where on the shotgun it has to be, someone could get imaginative and cause you a headache).

mayhem#

So best idea is to waltz down to the local copshop and just ask?

Sparks

Pretty much. Have some prep work done first though - photos of the parts, and reasons why you need them. The farther anything odd that you need from the local Super with regard to licences is from a whim, the more likely it is to get the nod, in general.

mayhem#

Thanks, will prepare a neat little folder before I go.
And shower & shave of course!

Grizzly 45

mayhem# wrote: »

I have a Mossberg 500 which I would like to mod a bit by adding a telescopic (not folding) buttstock, a picatinny rail and a vertical handgrip on the fore-end.
No idea which one of these are allowed so would appreciate some input.

Also,ask yourself do you really need the hasle of these bits?? I was like you at one stage and needed every "tacticool" bits on a shotgun imagineable..In the end I proably had an extra unnecessary 15 lbs of junk on the gun that did nothing to improve its accruacy or pointability.:eek:

The folding /telescoping stocks,are about the most uncomfortable yokes you can use to fire a gun especially a 12 GA shotgun,and I've fired a good few versions of them.:) They are unpleasent to shoot,as the recoil is now beng deliverd down a narrow bar or tube into a recoil pad of some sort,rather than being absorbed by sa mass of wood or plastic.
Most of the pistol grips are based on a varient of an AR15 pistol grip which is way too narrow to properly absorb the recoil,or are made out of plastic that is non recoil absorbing and hurt like hell if you shoot heavy loads.

Unless you have a need to store your shotgun in a really confined space or wear body armour while shooting,[and then the "pros";) will actually go for the shortest barrel length possible with a full stock,and have the barrel re choked.]
BUT
They really look good though no matter what..:pac::):)!!

Picitinny rails...Meh!! Not unless you are going to put a holosight /red dot scope on the gun,and they are personal prefence taste thing.
Been dicking around with one here for an airsoft on mine,[no point in spending stupid money on somthing and finding out you dont really like it or it does nothing for you in the end;)],
TBH I'm not too impressed with them,but thats just me.I feel there is nothing that couldnt be sorted by a good High Viz open shotgun sight,without the worries of batteries failing,or it being knocked askew,zeroing etc.

Pistol grip forend.
If you can get the model that looks like a Thompson smg foregrip,you are in biz.:cool:.They are great recoil reducers and fun and I find the new Mossbergs plastic foreend way too small for my hands.
Downside,is they get caught up in everything,and proably fail the Idoanlikedelookodat test:rolleyes:
Two things you can do both proably as effective and are legal on an unrestricted gun.

1]Get a piece of webbing belt or sling and mount it under the pump slide so you have a loop which you put your palm thru to grip the slide.It serves the same purpose of the vertical pistol grip and doesnt get hung up in everything.Some mount it so it is secured both on the fore and rear of the slide,or others have a double loop mounted at the front. It works.:)

2] Get a so called angled foregrip,which actually isnt a foregrip at all!!
It is a add on part with a front "spur" that prevents your hand from slipping off the grip into the muzzle path.Unlikely unless you have a 12 in shotgun barrel,:eek:but it beefs up the pump handle alot and looks good.

Its Picitinny rail mounted ,so you will have to put a Picitinny rail along the pump foregrip,and make sure they are well mounted on the foregrip,as there is alot of stress on anything mounted up there.
Hope this helps somwhat or gives you some other ideas.
G

bravestar

Like Grizzly 45 said, I too have gone down the Tacticool road before. Waste of time unless you have a REALLY specific need. All that remains on my remington 870 is a hogue overmold 12" LOP stock and forend, a hi viz fiber optic front bead and a receiver mounted side saddle (handy for quick reloads when hunting).

Pistol gripped, telescopic shotgun stocks are just not comfortable and I found, made the firearm, VERY awkward (Unless it had a very short barrel which would be way too short for this country)

clivej

I have this coming for my maverick 88.
It's NOT a pistol grip and has a built in recoil system

Blackhawk Talon Thumbhole Shotgun Stock

mayhem#

@Grizzly 45 I take your point on the stock but I want to replace the current wooden stock as I want something more "resistant". Might opt for a synthetic stock rather than a telescopic but the jury's out on that one for the moment.
The vertical foregrip; yes I was looking at both the "Thompson style" one as well as the ones with the spur. Might go for the former as it looks like something that will give a lot more positive grip.
I also see your point re the Piccatinny rail but as I want to mount a light under the barrel and as a lot of vertical foregrips are mounted on those I don't have much choice.
Believe me I am not going for the "zombie-killer gun" look. I just want to shotgun to be more durable, quicker to handle and yes, I do need a light on the front....

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

It's NOT a pistol grip

Yikes clive, how big is your thumb?

clivej

Of your looking for a synthetic and forend then ill be sell mine if the Blackhawks works out good

mayhem#

Clive, would they fit a Mossberg 500?

garv123

clivej wrote: »

I have this coming for my maverick 88.
It's NOT a pistol grip and has a built in recoil system

Blackhawk Talon Thumbhole Shotgun Stock

How do you remove the old 88 synthetic stock from the receiver on the 88? I was looking at mine when I had it disassemmbled for painting and couldn't see anyway of removing it.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=mayhem#;81399300]@Grizzly 45 I take your point on the stock but I want to replace the current wooden stock as I want something more "resistant". Might opt for a synthetic stock rather than a telescopic but the jury's out on that one for the moment.

The vertical foregrip; yes I was looking at both the "Thompson style" one as well as the ones with the spur. Might go for the former as it looks like something that will give a lot more positive grip.

It certainly will..I had a 18 in Mossberg in the US with both front and rear Thompson grips and you could belt 3in maggies out of it all day if you wanted to..Not that you would hit much mind beyond 10 meters.:p

I also see your point re the Piccatinny rail but as I want to mount a light under the barrel and as a lot of vertical foregrips are mounted on those I don't have much choice.

Barrel clamp to hold the light either below /left/right??Leaving the pump grip free to mount whatever??

Witcher

mayhem# wrote: »

@Grizzly 45 I take your point on the stock but I want to replace the current wooden stock as I want something more "resistant". Might opt for a synthetic stock rather than a telescopic but the jury's out on that one for the moment.
The vertical foregrip; yes I was looking at both the "Thompson style" one as well as the ones with the spur. Might go for the former as it looks like something that will give a lot more positive grip.
I also see your point re the Piccatinny rail but as I want to mount a light under the barrel and as a lot of vertical foregrips are mounted on those I don't have much choice.
Believe me I am not going for the "zombie-killer gun" look. I just want to shotgun to be more durable, quicker to handle and yes, I do need a light on the front....

What's going to be your valid reason for the pistol grip and telescopic stock when you apply for your restricted licence?

clivej

mayhem# wrote: »

Clive, would they fit a Mossberg 500?

Yes just screw it on, see answer below.

garv123 wrote: »

How do you remove the old 88 synthetic stock from the receiver on the 88? I was looking at mine when I had it disassemmbled for painting and couldn't see anyway of removing it.

Take off the rubber shoulder pad and there is a nut that holds the stock on. Look and you will see 2 small hidden holes in the pad for the 2 screws, posi drive heads. You will need a long extension for the nut socket.

clivej

Blay wrote: »

What's going to be your valid reason for the pistol grip and telescopic stock when you apply for your restricted licence?

'........your valid reason for the pistol grip and telescopic stock.......'

And there lays the reason that you won't get any of the bits your looking to fit. :o:o

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

'........your valid reason for the pistol grip and telescopic stock.......'

And there lays the reason that you won't get any of the bits your looking to fit. :o:o

Yeah....
...but on the other hand,

Firearms Act, Section 3(13) wrote:

(13) A person who—
(a) knowingly gives false or misleading information to an issuing person in relation to an application for a firearm certificate or for its renewal,
(b) forges a document purporting to be a firearm certificate or uses or knowingly possesses it, or
(c) with intent to deceive, uses or alters a firearm certificate or uses a firearm certificate so altered,
is guilty of an offence and liable—
(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment or a term not exceeding 6 months or both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €20,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

So that's a rather dangerous line to try to walk along without margin - I mean, you don't even have to be done for lying, just giving "misleading information".

mayhem#

No need to mislead or lie.
Q: Why do you want a different stock & fore-end?
A: So I can hold the shotgun more securely & safely, reducing the risk of dropping at possibly resulting in an accidental discharge sir!

;-)

Sparks

mayhem# wrote: »

No need to mislead or lie.

+1

Thing is, to us it's neither misleading nor lying to us. We know the stock's safe, that it doesn't matter if it's a straight, thumbhole or pistol stock. And we know that (say) clivej's not some random nutter, that he knows what he's doing and is a safe shooter. But the AGS don't have ten years of shooting behind them, nor any knowledge of who we are, so some of them occasionally take less enlightened viewpoints and it is misleading or lying to them. And now you're in a court with the judge trying to decide whose viewpoint to accept?

Best to just explain stuff than to try to get round them really. And if they're just not having it, well, what do you think they'd do if you did an end run? Not worth the hassle in the long run.

juice1304

Sparks wrote: »

+1

Thing is, to us it's neither misleading nor lying to us. And we know that (say) clivej's not some random nutter

I would'nt be so sure of that :D:p

Sparks

juice1304 wrote: »

I would'nt be so sure of that :D:p

Oh, be fair. He's not random...

Witcher

mayhem# wrote: »

No need to mislead or lie.
Q: Why do you want a different stock & fore-end?
A: So I can hold the shotgun more securely & safely, reducing the risk of dropping at possibly resulting in an accidental discharge sir!

;-)

Good luck getting that to work for ya, unless you have arthritis or another musculoskeletal condition that prevents you using a standard pump action the CS will use that application as a placemat for his coffee mug.

Remember restricted licences are granted on the condition that no unrestricted fiream will do the job..people without medical conditions like arthritis are using pump actions everyday without dropping and accidently discharging them. Telling the Gardai you can't be trusted not to drop a loaded gun probably isn't a good idea either.

sfakiaman

Sparks wrote: »

+1

But the AGS don't have ten years of shooting behind them,

Change that to between them and you are about right.

clivej

Sparks wrote: »

+1
'..........that (say) clivej's not some random nutter, that he knows what he's ..........

juice1304 wrote: »

I would'nt be so sure of that :D:p

Sparks wrote: »

Oh, be fair. He's not random...

I think 'Her Indoors' would agree with you's both :eek::eek::eek:

Anyway 3 more medals won, 2 silver, 1 bronze in gallery comps. this weekend. I may be bonkers but I can shoot straight ;)

300 (17X) first 300 in comp. and still only came second

It wasn't me!

clivej wrote: »

I may be bonkers but I can shoot straight ;

Not sure that's helping the image any Clive! I see competition shooting is keeping you from pestering the wildlife though, welcome to my world!