Dogs being mistreated?

Dan133269

Hello people,

I would just like to get your opinions on this please.

Basically I've been living in Brussels for 2 years now. When I first moved here I noticed an alcoholic beggar in the city centre who was begging for money on the footpath. He had with him a group of dogs, maybe 5, all of whom were asleep. Over the course of living here for 2 years, I have passed him at least 20 times, at different times of the day and he is always found in the same position in the city centre. Basically, it's an area that gets an awful lot of footfall from tourists and people just passing through. It is an incredibly noisy and crowded area. Anyway, literally every time I have passed him, except once, the dogs have all been asleep. He usually has them lined up in a little bed and covered with a blanket, with their heads sticking out.

I've recently noticed that he has some new pups, and they are suckling their mother who is asleep. My question is - considering the amount of occasions I have passed him, all of which have been at different times of the day and the dogs are asleep - is it likely that he is drugging the dogs in order to evoke sympathy or pity from passers-by so he'll get more money? My other half has also passed him several times when I was not with her and every time, she has observed that the dogs are asleep.

The reason I'm asking is because I would like to report him to some animal welfare society if my allegation is correct. Unfortunately, Belgian society is extremely indifferent when it comes to injustice or suffering, so I would like to get the objective opinions of those who are more familiar with dogs before I speak to any authorities.

Thanks in advance for any replies. I know I may have made a sinister assumption, but if so, you can rest assured it's simply erring on the side of caution in favour of the dogs' welfare.

Odysseus

I doubt that he is giving the dogs drugs. If you are that concerned why not stop and talk to the poor guy; maybe even buy him a coffee and have a chat with him.

Dan133269

To be honest, I get the impression this guy is not exactly in need of a cup of coffee. I often see tourists taking photos of the dogs and giving him money. Anyway, if he is mistreating his dogs, he's not the kind of person I would like to buy a cup of coffee for.

My main question is - is it likely these dogs are being sedated or drugged as they are sleeping so much? The mrs said that most of them are spaniels, and spaniels are generally very energetic and spritely. Surely someone familiar with dogs must have an idea, 5 dogs, most of whom are spaniels constantly asleep in a busy, noisey city centre area. Are they drugged or not?

EDIT: By the way, the mrs asked him why are the dogs always asleep, and he pretended not to understand her.

Whispered

Are the dogs definitely alive?

OldNotWIse

There's nothing wrong with being concerned for the welfare of the dogs. I hope you find some answers, and that the poor dogs will be ok.

I agree with Odysseus, there is also a suffering person there who obviously doesnt want to live on the street.

kylith

I doubt he's drugging them. If you saw my two during the day you'd think they were drugged because they only move as far as the water bowl, then back to bed. If there is nothing for a dog to do, it usually does nothing.

loveisdivine

Perhaps the dogs could be malnourished? This could possibly make them more lethargic.

areyawell

Maybe he is electrocuting them to knock them out or hitting them over the head with a shovel or using chloroform to knock them out.:rolleyes:

Or a more logical explanation is that he walks them for a couple of hours every day before he starts begging because he has nothing else to do and when there tired he has them trained to enter the basket and go to sleep like a normal routine?

He could be an early riser and and wake the dogs up early and they are nothing getting enough sleep so they sleep when he is begging and has them trained to enter the basket and has them in this routine the whole time.


Jesus OP, I never saw someone so naive.

anniehoo

areyawell wrote: »

Jesus OP, I never saw someone so naive.

I wouldnt call this naivity in the slightest and is a very valid question to ask.People do ridiculous things to their pets all the time, this man could be no different. Yes the man is a beggar, but ive had first hand experience of this type of person giving mild sedatives (easy and very cheap to get) to their pets for the sole purpose of enhancing the "awww factor" and therefore increasing the donations. It's a no brainer, cute animals=more cash.Do you not think its odd that every single time he sees these dogs they're fast asleep???If you work or volunteer in animal rescue you become wise to peoples tricks and if anything areyawell you're being the naive one.

But...BUT there's also the flipside and genuine beggars who do beg with their animals who are legitimately tired for natural reasons. The only answer is to contact the equivalent of the RSPCA there and see what they say.

DBB

areyawell wrote: »

Jesus OP, I never saw someone so naive.

Mod note: areyawell, please note to "attack the post, not the poster" as per the forum charter, and indeed it is a sitewide policy.
You don't have to agree with other posters, but you can disagree in a civil manner.
Do not respond to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Ronnie Beck

I gave my collie painkillers(from a vet) for a knee ligament injury. He slept like a baby for the five days. He was eight months old at the time. In saying that and he's two now he's fond of a snooze during the day. The only way to know for sure would be to follow him. If the dogs are out walking for a few hours every day this may well be there chance for a bit of a kip during the day. If they are young spaniels and he locks them up somewhere and only takes them out for begging then you could presume they're drugged.

Ann22

An awful thought to think he's drugging them. Maybe he's giving them sups of his wine? Hard to believe he'd spend money on drugs. Hope he's feeding them! There's a chance the man shows them the nearest they have to love. What a sad story op.

Dan133269

Thanks for replies. I've sent a couple of e-mails to animal rights groups telling them the facts of what I've seen and what I fear may be the case. I'll let you know what happens.

Dan133269

Dan133269 wrote: »

Thanks for replies. I've sent a couple of e-mails to animal rights groups telling them the facts of what I've seen and what I fear may be the case. I'll let you know what happens.

And who did you contact regards to human rights ? I mean there is a homeless man begging, obviously in need of help.

Maggie 2

I have an old greyhound in the house and she sleeps for a good 23 hours a day! So it wouldn't be unusual, if the dogs were comfy and well fed, they would snooze the day (and night) away.
You are right to act on your concerns and I hope you are proven wrong.

OldNotWIse

Maggie 2 wrote: »

I have an old greyhound in the house and she sleeps for a good 23 hours a day! So it wouldn't be unusual, if the dogs were comfy and well fed, they would snooze the day (and night) away.
You are right to act on your concerns and I hope you are proven wrong.

Yup, I've a young JRT and she will sleep for hours at a time if let, but when I take her out she's mental :rolleyes:

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

And who did you contact regards to human rights ? I mean there is a homeless man begging, obviously in need of help.

Maybe you could forward him the details for the places you ring every time you see a homeless person?

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Maybe you could forward him the details for the places you ring every time you see a homeless person?

Well i am in Ireland and the one i volunteer in would be my first point of call.

Odysseus

I don't know but it seems clear to me the easy thing to do is just have a chat with the guy. I know some people are afaird of homeless people, maybe even addicts, but a simply chat shoulod clear up the question.

Interact with the dogs whilst having a chat, a person should have a good idea from that. As for contacting services it seems to me if the owners life improves the dogs quality of life should follow.

I have worked with homeless addicts for too many years most guys begging on the street are quite approachable, well they need to be if they want cash. Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens from the OP's e-mails.

We are talking of the life of another person and their pets; it shouldn't be a pissing contest.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

Well i am in Ireland and the one i volunteer in would be my first point of call.

Good. We have some people here concerned with animal rights, some concerned with human rights - I always love to see a nice balance dont you?:)

Incidentally, you do realise that the two are not mutually exclusive?? Just because OP has expressed concern for the dogs does not automatically mean he does not care for people - it is possible to do both! And caring for the dog doesnt make him any worse than the (no doubt) thousands of people who walk by this man every day and see not the man or his dogs!

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Good. We have some people here concerned with animal rights, some concerned with human rights - I always love to see a nice balance dont you?:)

Yes and i balance it up asking about the homeless person :rolleyes:

Reminds me of the time the Irish lad jumped into the liffey to save his rabbit. There were calls from Animal rights people to have his rabbit removed as he was not fit to look after it, yet he risked his life. Maybe they were right, but i prays the people who thought outside of the box and approached the person, offered to help him and help him feed his pets.

OldNotWIse

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes and i balance it up asking about the homeless person :rolleyes:

Reminds me of the time the Irish lad jumped into the liffey to save his rabbit. There were calls from Animal rights people to have his rabbit removed as he was not fit to look after it, yet he risked his life. Maybe they were right, but i prays the people who thought outside of the box and approached the person, offered to help him and help him feed his pets.

No I think you were just trying to get at the poster tbh Anyway, I'm not arguing this point with you. Some people care about animals, some about people, some both, some neither. With the exception of the last group, I think all are good people in their own way and I think its sad when you feel the need to have a go at someone because they are concerned for one group or another.

Afaik, they man in question was offered a job subsequent to the event but did not accept it as he did not want to re-locate and be far away from his partner. Also, the piece of filth who threw the animal in the river and as a result endangered this mans life is facing charges.

Irish Stones

In this part of the world it's illegal to beg with "the help" of a pet.
When we see such a situation and report it to the police, they come and see if the pet is alright and anyway there's the possibility that the pet is taken away from the beggar with the charge of mistreating.
AFAIK these dogs are kept quiet and calm by mean of some slight drug. In a couple of occasions I also saw cats sat quietly by the homeless person and we all know that a cat doesn't stay in a place against its will unless it is sedated.

Odysseus

Irish Stones wrote: »

In this part of the world it's illegal to beg with "the help" of a pet.
When we see such a situation and report it to the police, they come and see if the pet is alright and anyway there's the possibility that the pet is taken away from the beggar with the charge of mistreating.
AFAIK these dogs are kept quiet and calm by mean of some slight drug. In a couple of occasions I also saw cats sat quietly by the homeless person and we all know that a cat doesn't stay in a place against its will unless it is sedated.

I couldn't agree with that approach, but out of interest has there been any cases where this has been proven? I have come across many different cases of pets being given various drugs over the years; however, I have never experienced that. What I would have experienced ranges from pets been given some of whatever drug is been abused [for the laugh:rolleyes:] to various drugs been given to dogs that would be involved in fights.

Ronnie Beck

When I was working in Bulgaria children used to beg in the streets holding 6 week old puppies. They'd have a new one every few days .