Brian Lenihan's official letter asking for our bailout has been released.

Ghandee

The official letter has now been released, funnily enough just as support for FF is once again on the rise.

This, from the BBC news on 15th of Nov 2010

Irsh ministers have sought to reassure the EU they will not be looking for a bail-out to help them deal with the country's deficit.

They said they were in constant contact with Brussels about the economic situation, which has lead Dublin to commit to 6bn euros of spending cuts in the next year alone.

Note the date on the letter.


http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11762359

More letters to be released 'shortly' apparently.

Interesting.......

davet82

Please sir, could I have some more...

smash

Bit of a boring letter.

GalwayGuy2

Hmm, the sentence before yours Faithfully is the big un.

vicwatson

This letter tells us nothing we didn't already know.

paddydriver

Thank god they printed it on recycled paper... every penny counts!

Ghandee

I personally never thought it would get released.

I wonder what the rest will contain?

jester77

No BS, straight to the point. Nothing wrong with that.

smash

Ghandee wrote: »

I personally never thought it would get released.

I wonder what the rest will contain?

more groveling

dj jarvis

what we really want is the letter from the ECB, basically telling us we had no choice , that if we did not ask for help the banking system in Europe would collapse

they called our bluff - they knew full well that we were singled out as Europe whipping boys , i would wager that we released these letters in a hope that the ECB would release the "demand" letter sent by jean "crunt " junkers

if it is shown publicly , then the EU will HAVE NO CHOICE but to cut the rates being charged for the bail out, they will look REALLY bad if they dont

so the EU is one big family ? well if this is how the other members of the " family " treat you, then we should get a divorce

squod

dj jarvis wrote: »

what we really want is the letter from the ECB, basically telling us we had no choice , that if we did not ask for help the banking system in Europe would collapse

Might effect the outcome of the inquiries into the Anglo bail-out fraud

dj jarvis

squod wrote: »

Might effect the outcome of the inquiries into the Anglo bail-out fraud

good point , but not sure ,

was the bail out for the banks not asked for before the full extent of anglos losses were revealed ?
no question of criminal proceedings were muted then, but i stand open to correction on that

squod

dj jarvis wrote: »

was the bail out for the banks not asked for before the full extent of anglos losses were revealed ?

Revealed to who? Me and every dog on the street or people in Europe? Think everyone in this country knew what bailing (or guaranteeing) Anglo meant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXi-F6vZ-Q

Stinicker

They talk of Dermot MacMurrough but this man, Bertie Ahern and the entire Fianna Fail cabinet will long be remembered as the greatest traitors ever in Irish history.

I shed no tear the day lendahand died and quite frankly the smell of karma was quite refreshing that day.

Ghandee

Stinicker wrote: »

They talk of Dermot MacMurrough but this man, Bertie Ahern and the entire Fianna Fail cabinet will long be remembered as the greatest traitors ever in Irish history.

I shed no tear the day lendahand died and quite frankly the smell of karma was quite refreshing that day.

Jesus!


I wouldn't go that far.

squod

Got to agree Stinicker. I'm not glad to see anyone pass TBH. Human life is precious. But the fact is that many people should be behind bars today. PS workers, bankers, politicians, anyone involved really.

dj jarvis

squod wrote: »

Revealed to who? Me and every dog on the street or people in Europe? Think everyone in this country knew what bailing (or guaranteeing) Anglo meant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXi-F6vZ-Q

my point was that no one knew for sure that anything criminal was done , massive losses yes , but the story that came out later ? i doubt even our feckless government knew about the golden circle , or the loans to quinn , and if they did know about it then surely they are as culpable

and in fairness the EU did not give 2 sh1ts about us , it was the domino effect on the German and french lenders they were focused on , it has been said by many politicians and jurnos that a gun was put to our head , and this letter from jean junkers is supposed to be damming for the ECB board and the EU

Stinicker

squod wrote: »

Got to agree Stinicker. I'm not glad to see anyone pass TBH. Human life is precious. But the fact is that many people should be behind bars today. PS workers, bankers, politicians, anyone involved really.

I hate to see people go also but the scale of suffering inflicted by this man and his actions to me saw his quick demise as pure karma. Hundreds of young people have committed suicide the last few years due to the dire state of the country. Their blood is on the hands of Fianna Fail and Lenihan's actions that fateful day and night (of the banking guarantee).

krudler

" Go on go on go on go on..."

dj jarvis

Stinicker wrote: »

I hate to see people go also but the scale of suffering inflicted by this man and his actions to me saw his quick demise as pure karma. Hundreds of young people have committed suicide the last few years due to the dire state of the country. Their blood is on the hands of Fianna Fail and Lenihan's actions that fateful day and night (of the banking guarantee).

not just his actions in fairness , dont forget c mc creavey, and brian cowen done a load of damage long before he took the ministry

the seeds for this disaster were sown in the late 80's - not one man

KERSPLAT!

@Stinicker The man deserved to die? Are you for ****in real?

squod

dj jarvis wrote: »

my point was that no one knew for sure that anything criminal was done , massive losses yes , but the story that came out later ? i doubt even our feckless government knew about the golden circle , or the loans to quinn , and if they did know about it then surely they are as culpable

and in fairness the EU did not give 2 sh1ts about us , it was the domino effect on the German and french lenders they were focused on , it has been said by many politicians and jurnos that a gun was put to our head , and this letter from jean junkers is supposed to be damming for the ECB board and the EU

You'd have to ask why they did it. Why Joan Burton was told to f'off when she said the very idea of bailing Anglo was madness. I followed the story very closely in the lead up to, during and after the treason of Sept 2008.

Like that bloke in the video said. It was done unilaterally, in the dead of night, without consulting Europe .

Zebra3

Unless the OP is part of the elite the thread title is wrong.

It was not "our bailout".

dj jarvis

squod wrote: »

You'd have to ask why they did it. Why Joan Burton was told to f'off when she said the very idea of bailing Anglo was madness. I followed the story very closely in the lead up to, during and after the treason of Sept 2008.

Like that bloke in the video said. It was done unilaterally, in the dead of night, without consulting Europe .

but do you think the ECB and EU knew about the extent of criminal proceedings at anglo when the " offered " the cash ?
and how it was offered ? , no, anglo TOLD the government they were about to go tits up and take the house of cards down with it
i do not believe that anglo told ANYONE of all the dealings , i think the blanket guarantee would not gone ahead , instead a guarantee for BOI and AIB but not anglo , they could have let it go

but as we all know , they went and sold us ALL down the river

View

dj jarvis wrote: »

what we really want is the letter from the ECB, basically telling us we had no choice , that if we did not ask for help the banking system in Europe would collapse

You'll probably find the ECB's letter was along the lines of:

"Your budgetary math is very interesting but doesn't appear to add up. Could you therefore please explain where all the "missing money" to fund this is going to come from?"

At which point the DoF spotted the mistake in their math and went "Oh crap" and the rest is history.

Fishooks12

Some really disgusting people saying disgusting things they would probably never say in real life here, well two anyway.

Zebra3

IPAM wrote: »

@Stinicker The man deserved to die? Are you for ****in real?

He was a bigger criminal than any of the drug dealing scumbags and armed robbers who populate this country.

His betrayal of the Irish people will cause far more damage than any of the other degenerates.

But he wore a suit and not a woolly face so that's all right then, yeah? :rolleyes:

squod

dj jarvis wrote: »

but do you think the ECB and EU knew about the extent .....

I think the ECB knew. I doubt that the government of the day would let Europe know. They didn't even tell us

Ghandee

Zebra3 wrote: »

Unless the OP is part of the elite the thread title is wrong.

It was not "our bailout".

Oops

Silly error on my part! Well spotted zebra.

dj jarvis

sure what is done is done

the focus of our Muppet Government is to get the rates lowered, and the term length into 40 plus years , best of a bad deal , becasue anyone that thinks we are going to get a right off is deluded.

we , and our children and even our grand children will be paying for this for a long time

as much as i want to see people jailed - it WILL NOT change the above

KERSPLAT!

Zebra3 wrote: »

He was a bigger criminal than any of the drug dealing scumbags and armed robbers who populate this country.

His betrayal of the Irish people will cause far more damage than any of the other degenerates.

But he wore a suit and not a woolly face so that's all right then, yeah? :rolleyes:

Breaking out the rolleyes already... Well played sir

I didn't say anything was alright, what I'm saying is he didn't deserve to die for his actions

up for anything

The title of this thread should be changed to "Thirty Pieces of Silver". :mad::mad:

Stinicker

Zebra3 wrote: »

He was a bigger criminal than any of the drug dealing scumbags and armed robbers who populate this country.

His betrayal of the Irish people will cause far more damage than any of the other degenerates.

But he wore a suit and not a woolly face so that's all right then, yeah? :rolleyes:

Lenihan and the entire Fianna Fail cabinet and their fellow fraudsters in the banks and light touch regulators are the biggest criminals in Ireland. They committed treason against the country. Whilst Lenihan died an awful death and this is regrettable, him and the rest of them were guilty and only punishment for what they done should be death. The great shame is really that it was Lenihan who died first and not Bertie Ahern, a man who'd I'd gladly act as executioner for.

Fianna Fail effectively stole €200 billion to bailout out their failed cronies. In alot countries like the pan-arab world there would have been an uprising and those responsible would pay dearly. However in Ireland there is effectively 1million people with practically nothing totally dependent on the state, the dole has acted as a bribe for civil peace while the middle class are pummeled. If the dole was to disappear things would degenerate here very fast.

tayto lover

squod wrote: »

Got to agree Stinicker. I'm not glad to see anyone pass TBH. Human life is precious. But the fact is that many people should be behind bars today. PS workers, bankers, politicians, anyone involved really.

You are going to need a lot of bars.

poeticseraphim

Zebra3 wrote: »

He was a bigger criminal than any of the drug dealing scumbags and armed robbers who populate this country.

His betrayal of the Irish people will cause far more damage than any of the other degenerates.

But he wore a suit and not a woolly face so that's all right then, yeah? :rolleyes:

He did not do anything illegal.The bankss lied to him more than likely.He believed they were solvent that it was a liquidity issue. But they were completely insolvent. He made the garantee because he did not believe it would ever become an issue where he would have to actually stand by it she was stupid enough to believe them.

Irish banks had trouble borrowing from the world financial service so when the property bubble burst American banks in particular worried about the exposure to the crisis so they stopped lending bankers kept turning up at govt buildings asking for assistance in order to secure liquidity lenihan made a public garantee he believed they were solvent it was to enable the banks to function but borrowing costs and debt soared.

He made a garantee to ensure the world system would allow irish banks to function not just the eu would have put the pressure on but the Americans too..not so much to make the garantee but probably that they would not lend without collatoral or something he made a publiC garentee putting the sovreign behind the banks. He did not have to do it but he had to do something to collatoralize the Irish system.

They would have insisted on something in exchange for funds probably not the way lenihan presented it though he never thought we would have to pay as he though he was garanteeing solvent banks. There were companies that advised against it we know now.So yes thy would ot have lent without collateral but that did not mean they wanted a sovereign garantee specifically.He just wanted to keep cash flowing and needed to.The criminals are the accountants and perhaps the then regulator. Lenihan was just an idiot and very sick.What should have happened was a request for a bailout as soon as the banks had trouble borrowing on the markets ...the banks should have been forced to reognize those losses then recapitalized and certain bondholders burnt. It was the delay and the stupid belief that insolvent banks were actually solvent that made for a disaster.

The whole system cocked it up to be honest. When the IMF and the Americans realized the IMF wanted to write the banking dbt partially off as they tought our theen sovreign debt was sustainable but not bank debt...the fed possibly the ecb was having none of it and insisted it be tied to sovereign debt. They did not just make him give the garantee they made him in exchange for funds which he should not have been putting into insolvent banks anyway.

But it was the banks and reglator at fault legally and the minister was simply in over his head.

cazzak79

He didn't have the right expertise wrong person that
Did the job
The anger should be out towards bertie ahern, Brian cowan etc and the bankers that put us in this mess

up for anything

poeticseraphim wrote: »

He did not do anything illegal.The bankss lied to him more than likely.He believed they were solvent that it was a liquidity issue. But they were completely insolvent. He made the garantee because he did not believe it would ever become an issue where he would have to actually stand by it she was stupid enough to believe them.

Irish banks had trouble borrowing from the world financial service so when the property bubble burst American banks in particular worried about the exposure to the crisis so they stopped lending bankers kept turning up at govt buildings asking for assistance in order to secure liquidity lenihan made a public garantee he believed they were solvent it was to enable the banks to function but borrowing costs and debt soared.

He made a garantee to ensure the world system would allow irish banks to function not just the eu would have put the pressure on but the Americans too..not so much to make the garantee but probably that they would not lend without collatoral or something he made a publiC garentee putting the sovreign behind the banks. He did not have to do it but he had to do something to collatoralize the Irish system.

They would have insisted on something in exchange for funds probably not the way lenihan presented it though he never thought we would have to pay as he though he was garanteeing solvent banks. There were companies that advised against it we know now.So yes thy would ot have lent without collateral but that did not mean they wanted a sovereign garantee specifically.He just wanted to keep cash flowing and needed to.The criminals are the accountants and perhaps the then regulator. Lenihan was just an idiot and very sick.What should have happened was a request for a bailout as soon as the banks had trouble borrowing on the markets ...the banks should have been forced to reognize those losses then recapitalized and certain bondholders burnt. It was the delay and the stupid belief that insolvent banks were actually solvent that made for a disaster.

The whole system cocked it up to be honest. When the IMF and the Americans realized the IMF wanted to write the banking dbt partially off as they tought our theen sovreign debt was sustainable but not bank debt...the fed possibly the ecb was having none of it and insisted it be tied to sovereign debt. They did not just make him give the garantee they made him in exchange for funds which he should not have been putting into insolvent banks anyway.

But it was the banks and reglator at fault legally and the minister was simply in over his head.

Jesus, the man was the finance minister - that should count for something.

He thought... he believed.. :rolleyes:

If I was to say that I took out a bank loan in 2006 which I thought and I believed I could pay back but can't because I a simpleton... sorry, simply in over my head, there would be a queue of posters to call me a stupid cnut for not knowing that I was putting a further hole in an already sinking ship.

The man was in charge of the country's finances - he should have checked and double-checked and not just thought!

Zebra3

poeticseraphim wrote: »

He did not do anything illegal.

He stole our money to prop up a bank that was a casino for the Galway Tent brigade.

poeticseraphim

up for anything wrote: »

Jesus, the man was the finance minister - that should count for something.

He thought... he believed.. :rolleyes:

If I was to say that I took out a bank loan in 2006 which I thought and I believed I could pay back but can't because I a simpleton... sorry, simply in over my head, there would be a queue of posters to call me a stupid cnut for not knowing that I was putting a further hole in an already sinking ship.

The man was in charge of the country's finances - he should have checked and double-checked and not just thought!

It has been established in the UK that Irish banking acountants neglected Irish company law when doing accounts and that there was a technical flaw in EU banking legislation.

Banks were prohibted from reognizing losses until the borrower contacted them first but in reality the time between the borrower contacting them and the problem of payment causiing a problem could be years.

He did not take out a loan as such. He became the garantee for a loan for banks whose losses according to EU banking law and certain credit rating agencies did not exist yet.

Basically you garanteed for a friend taking out a loan. When you checked their acounts it would have looked ok.

It even looked ok enough for the FED and the ECB or they would not have accepted a garantee as collatoral.

It would have taken a thorough clean independant audit the likes of which they cannot even seem to do now in Germany, France and Spain.

He should not have made the Garantee..but people must know what would have happened. And it is likely we would still be held to aount for it anyway.

Iceland is still actually paying back those loans you know. They just did not pay it through the banks. But they had to pay back all the bondholders with innterest.

http://lucas2012infos.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/all-the-money-from-iceland-comes-back-good-news-for-dutch-savers-24-october-2012/

But Iceland did exactly the correct thing in my opinion...

But we could not have ...we have no currency

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9312181/Iceland-has-taken-its-medicine-and-is-off-the-critical-list.html

You are right to be angry but you are placing the blame in on place and that is incorrect.

You lose your ability to act within a monetary union.

Not that Iceland had a choice ...and the crucial factor in allowing them to function on the international markets has proved to be application to EU membership.

To be honest the Garantee is besides the point...Spain made none Italy made non Portugal made none...

The blame belongs to the whole system. The Irish regulator at the time to be honest was woeful. And yes some to Lenihan and a lot to the Government. But i blame The Irish regulator a lot.

Lenihan was not Minster in Greece and Spain etc....

In placing the blame soley with him you are letting a lot of people off.

Not to mention so MANY people who took on mortgages they knew they had no hope of paying back.

It was a credit binge. And people voting FF

Irish banks lent other peoples savings to some Irish people who had no clue both in business and personal loans.

The garantee is not the reason we are in the state we are in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932012_Icelandic_financial_crisis

Even Iceand had to pay it back...but it worked out better...

And it was PARTIALLY our bailout...

squod

dj jarvis wrote: »

as much as i want to see people jailed - it WILL NOT change the above

I'm pretty sure it would/will. We have seen so many times politicians backtracking when someone puts it up to them. A multi-billion euro fraud is probably going to mean heads rolling here, there and everywhere.

squod

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Some really disgusting people saying disgusting things they would probably never say in real life here, well two anyway.

Dunno if that includes me. Everything I have said here I have said elsewhere and publically.

B0jangles

Zebra3 wrote: »

But he wore a suit and not a woolly face so that's all right then, yeah? :rolleyes:

Apologies in advance, totally trivial and off-topic but this is bloody hilarious - is it a colloquial term for a balaclava?

poeticseraphim

squod wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it would/will. We have seen so many times politicians backtracking when someone puts it up to them. A multi-billion dollar fraud is
probably going to mean heads rolling here, there and everywhere.

The Irish electorate have known FF and Bertie were committing fraud for years and it was in the Papers. As a sovereign nation with us the people as it's sovereign we elected them. That is what sovereignty and soveriegn debt means. You are responsible for the Govt the majority elect. Saying people were lied to is th same excuse you say is not good enough for Lenihan. Besides the papers were full of Bertie's misdeeds. The EU tore MC Creevy a new one for ages. It did nnot stop the electorate from re-electing them. So they lied?? Well the banks lied to Lenihan...We as an electorate could have checked and re-checked...we could have chosen not to trust those w plaed trust in....That is what you are saying Lenihan should have done. He was an idiot...lesson here is do your research as an eletorate...if you live in a ountry of moronic gombeens ...move or learn to be very understanding


You really think the FED and the ECB would care if Irish politicians were jailed or worse? That it would mean politicians would be able to get a write off that would mean many people in other countries would lose their savings?

It was banks that committed fraud. And it is countries abroad that hold the purse strings.

Anyway there have been court cases and legal preceedings.

goodie2shoes

Stinicker wrote: »

They talk of Dermot MacMurrough but this man, Bertie Ahern and the entire Fianna Fail cabinet will long be remembered as the greatest traitors ever in Irish history.

I shed no tear the day lendahand died and quite frankly the smell of karma was quite refreshing that day.

that's a bit harsh. i have no ill-will towards Lenihan. i actually felt sorry for him.

he hadn't a clue what was going on. he was landed in a position he wasn't qualified or trained for. he was very poorly advised. and of course he was dying.
he was let down very badly by his own party colleagues imo.

squod

poeticseraphim wrote: »

.

But it was the banks and reglator at fault legally and the minister was simply in over his head.

There's no evidence for this. If a hundred and one people are telling you not to guarantee Anglo (as we now know they were) and the bank was very obviously in a complete financial jock then why bother?

You have to question why the guarantee was extended also. It was really, and I mean really obvious a couple of months after the first guarantee was made that Anglo was a black hole. That the now pillar banks needed propping up to secure or insulate them from Anglos loses and various developers were going belly up in a massive market turn around after prices had peaked and started falling.

squod

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Anyway there have been court cases and legal preceedings.

And there will be many more. As things usually go in Ireland, the culprits get found out twenty years down the line. We're doing an '80s style Catholic church on this one. Moving the problem to another parish eg: Germany and burying the bad news behind fluff and misinformation to put people off the scent.

goodie2shoes

squod wrote: »

There's no evidence for this. If a hundred and one people are telling you not to guarantee Anglo (as we now know they were) and the bank was very obviously in a complete financial jock then why bother?

You have to question why the guarantee was extended also. It was really, and I mean really obvious a couple of months after the first guarantee was made that Anglo was a black hole. That the now pillar banks needed propping up to secure or insulate them from Anglos loses and various developers were going belly up in a massive market turn around after prices had peaked and started falling.

like many other people you seem to have all the answers after the event. unfortunately we plum out of crystal balls.

squod

goodie2shoes wrote: »

like many other people you seem to have all the answers after the event.

The only people who wanted to bail Anglo at the time were Anglo and the previous government. Every other advisor (except McWilliams) told them not to AFAIK. Even McWillaims said the first guarantee should be used as a window for debt negotiation. Something that never happened.

poeticseraphim

squod wrote: »

There's no evidence for this. If a hundred and one people are telling you not to guarantee Anglo (as we now know they were) and the bank was very obviously in a complete financial jock then why bother?

You have to question why the guarantee was extended also. It was really, and I mean really obvious a couple of months after the first guarantee was made that Anglo was a black hole. That the now pillar banks needed propping up to secure or insulate them from Anglos loses and various developers were going belly up in a massive market turn around after prices had peaked and started falling.

It has been proven actually. That this was fact in released correspondance between Lenihan and Honohan.

Absolutely there was evidence for this the regulator Patrick Neary has been proven to have written to Lenihan to insist upon the garantee and even going so far as to say he would announce it himself.

This has been released in a letter.

Lenihan was worried he has not enough time to fully disuss it it with the cabinet.


Given a decline in Irish property values and the freezing-up of the world's interbank market in 2007, it was certain by the start of 2008 that the Irish banking system would have great difficulty in financing its day-to-day operations.This trading difficulty, and inadequate and/or lax supervision by the regulator, led to a series of government interventions, starting with a guarantee in September 2008.

The December 2008 hidden loans controversy within Anglo Irish Bank led to the resignations of three executives, including chief executive Seán FitzPatrick. A mysterious "Golden Circle" of ten businessmen are being investigated over shares they purchased in Anglo Irish Bank in 2008.

There have been reports that Patrick Neary knew YEARS ahead of these loans. YEARS BEFORE LENIHAN BECAME FINANCE MINISTER.

Anglo Irish was nationalised in January 2009 when the Irish government determined that recapitalisation would not be enough to save the bank. Since then it has emerged that Anglo Irish falsified its accounts before it was nationalised, with circular transactions between it and another bank, Permanent TSB, being uncovered. Denis Casey, the chief executive of Irish Life and Permanent, the company that owns Permanent TSB, resigned in the aftermath of this revelation.

Recapitalisation was however carried out at Ireland's two largest banks, Allied Irish Bank (AIB) and Bank of Ireland (BoI), with bailouts of €3.5 billion confirmed for each bank on 11 February 2009.


The reason it was extended was simple...when the markets heard the garantee they poured money into solid banks...so they thought , they were insolvent. Certain bondholders threatened to sue such as th Russian Abramovitch. It is almost certain bonds for that time would have to be stood by. The amounted to more that the govt had....even to sustain the system the Govt needed a bailout.



The IMF etc did not make them put up a garantee...but once it was there they were not going to allow it to be dropped and still allow the Govt to borrow at the same rate. That would be crazy.

The deficit was still IS still huge.

It is absolutely clear fat that the financial insolvency went back years before Lenihan and that it was probably known by Neary for years.

And it has been proven accounts were falsified and credit rating agnies with major underwriting relationships with the banks involved advised the Govt poorly.

Lenihan was a gifted Lawyer...no experience of finance.

Do you know on the night of the decision of th Bailout...some of his colleagues refused to even go to the evening meeting ??? Cars were sent around to the house of one TD who refused to leave his house that night.

If you know anything about banking..you know they were trying to prevent a devastating bank run for Ireland the next day.

He had little govt support ...the Banks lying their asses off and losses that technically did not exist and secret loans .....and the regulator had been in the knnow for years and was telling him either make the garantee or i will....(he legally could not but anyway)

The only thing that seemed to worry anyone about the garantee by the way including the EU ...was that it put no cap on bankers pay...NOT EVEN THE ECB HAD A CLUE...

Lenihan was badly advised lied to threatened and backed into an impossible situation.

Prof Patrick Honohan govenor of the central bank said it was not really the ministers fault.

Anyway, even if ministers had taken another decision, European leaders might have insisted on some form of guarantee, in his opinion.

'Mr Honohan said the refusal of Ireland's international lenders to allow losses to be imposed on senior bondholders at failed banks -- such as Anglo -- and the guarantee were key factors that tipped the country into a bailout.

"The extensive socialisation of losses -- initially through the September 2008 guarantee and subsequently when the Troika refused to countenance burden sharing with the unguaranteed senior bondholders -- has been rightly subject to extensive criticism," Mr Honohan said.

"Losses should be shared by both junior and senior creditors, where necessary, in cases where the banks are put into resolution," he added.'

They tchnically did not force Lenihan to baiout the banks...but they probably would have..

But it was a terrible mistake that the Troika now understands....

poeticseraphim

squod wrote: »

The only people who wanted to bail Anglo at the time were Anglo and the previous government. Every other advisor (except McWilliams) told them not to AFAIK. Even McWillaims said the first guarantee should be used as a window for debt negotiation. Something that never happened.

No that is what Mc Williams said after the event.

And no every adviser was actually telling them the banks were solvent.

The only thing they were worried of was the garantee did not cap the payy of bankers.

That was what they were advising against ...not the actual garantee itself.

No one had a clue about the secret loans except Neary the regulator (and those involved)who had known for years and was advising in writing that Lenihan garantee the banks.

steve9859

Stinicker wrote: »

I hate to see people go also but the scale of suffering inflicted by this man and his actions to me saw his quick demise as pure karma. Hundreds of young people have committed suicide the last few years due to the dire state of the country. Their blood is on the hands of Fianna Fail and Lenihan's actions that fateful day and night (of the banking guarantee).

Jesus Christ....you write that like you genuinely believe that he did it on purpose. That he had a painless way out and instead he thought 'no, let's not do that, let's screw everyone'.