Pregnancy from rape is 'God's will' - Apparentely

vicwatson

This guy is completely deluded

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1024/breaking28.html

My favourite line in the story is

Mr Mourdock made his remark two months after Missouri Senate Republican candidate Todd Akin said that "legitimate rape" rarely leads to pregnancy.

FatherLen

we're gonna run out of popcorn soon enough

MJ23

Crazy people say crazy things.

professore

If you are a religious person (which I am NOT) this is a perfectly reasonable and logical standpoint.

krudler

professore wrote: »

If you are a religious person (which I am NOT) this is a perfectly reasonable and logical standpoint.

reason and logic have no place in religion, sure they're founded on the complete opposite of both :pac:

Abi

I wouldn't bother rising to it. Hes a bell end.

flutterflye

I heard that earlier. It made me very angry.
Luckily, I reckon this nutjob is in the vast minority with his stupid stupid opinions.

seamus

If pregnancy from rape is "intended by god", then logically the act of rape too was "intended by god".

Yeah thanks for the rape, god. You asshole.

Perhaps if Mr. Murdock* was to find HIMSELF pregnant after getting gang raped I might actually go along with the "God's will" bit.



*Jesus that's not "Howlin' Mad" Murdock from The A-Team by any chance, is it? Now it kinda makes more sense!

Latchy

He probably thinks God is an American to ...what a tool.

smash

God's a cúnt.

Grayson

It's not an unusual sentiment. Most religious people have some kind of belief in that kind of the thing. the "We can't know His plan" or "God moves in mysterous ways" opinion.

hardCopy

seamus wrote: »

If pregnancy from rape is "intended by god", then logically the act of rape too was "intended by god".

Yeah thanks for the rape, god. You asshole.

If it turns out this God guy exists, he's got a lot to answer for. I wouldn't pray to him if I did believe.

hooradiation

seamus wrote: »

If pregnancy from rape is "intended by god", then logically the act of rape too was "intended by god".

Yeah thanks for the rape, god. You asshole.

Our god is a rapey god....

Sin City

Have these Doctors been named and shamed?

Solair

I'm not being pro/anti abortion here but this kind of statement really seems like something out of another era entirely.

The fact that there's a large audience for these guy's views is really saying a lot about what's happening to parts of the United States as people seem to just become more and more conservative and religiously fundamentalist.

Modern America was built on technology, science, big cities, liberal democracy, new ideas, movies, creativity, positivity, pushing out the boundries and it was bred in a secular, largely urban America not in the conservative, bible-belt deep south.

By secularism I mean things like a good open, non-religiously biased public school system, a tolerance for all sorts of religious beliefs and none and a dynamic multicultural melting pot that was incredibly creative.

These guys are going to drag it back to the Salem Witch trial days and puritanical backwards colonial america if they're taken too seriously.

It's just amazing that they seem to have serious traction with voters and the media over there.

I don't even know how fiscal conservatives i.e. US versions of the tory party's supporters are not being totally alienated by the modern Republican party. It's really moving away from its original core vote and morphing into some kind of Christian fundamentalist movement.

It's becoming a very weird scenario !

poeticseraphim

by this logic rape is god's will..

WOW god has willed a lot of rape then...and of minors too....god is sick....

SO RAPE IS EH OKAY JUST DON'T BE GAY.

Hmmmm so i guess those peado priests were trying to do god's will....

In fairness god kinda raped mary....no asking permission..just annoncing 'bitch you are having my son'

philologos

I take it this is this weeks After Hours thread to say that anyone who is a Christian is stupid?

Idle Passerby

philologos wrote: »

I take it this is this weeks After Hours thread to say that anyone who is a Christian is stupid?

Its the same god in non-Christian religions too, you know.

hooradiation

philologos wrote: »

I take it this is this weeks After Hours thread to say that anyone who is a Christian is stupid?

Just because your saviour was on the cross doesn't mean you've got to hop up there at the slightest provocation.

Solair

philologos wrote: »

I take it this is this weeks After Hours thread to say that anyone who is a Christian is stupid?

No, not at all.

I think it's more when someone starts to be narrow-minded, inward looking, refuses to challenge their own views or debate anything, becomes totally irrational, and adopts a 'my way or the highway' attitude to life, that they are definitely on a road to stupidity.

It doesn't matter what religious view point they have christian or otherwise or if they're an atheist. When someone starts to think that their view of the world is the only view of the world and that anyone who challenges that view should be shut out (or worse) that you start to have a bit of a problem.

Those kinds of dogmatic views can be about religion, nationality / patriotism, politics, even obsessives about particular brands of IT product start to become annoying after a while.

It is mind-boggling that someone can come out with a statement like that guy's and actually expect to be taken seriously in a political context.

I mean what's his take on say I donno murder? Is that just god's will too and perhaps we shouldn't bother prosecuting anyone for those crimes?

How about armed robbery ? Or, drug dealing ?

His logic is not exactly wonderful and it's MASSIVELY offensive to rape victims.

smash

hooradiation wrote: »

Just because your saviour was on the cross doesn't mean you've got to hop up there at the slightest provocation.

Allegedly on the cross

philologos

hooradiation wrote: »

Just because your saviour was on the cross doesn't mean you've got to hop up there at the slightest provocation.

Oh, believe me, I've got no intention of getting up there

I'm just noticing the typical trends on After Hours. In retrospect, it seems that all he's said from reading the article is although pregnancy through rape is deeply unfortunate and difficult, that a child born from rape is not necessarily a bad thing.

humanji

philologos wrote: »

I take it this is this weeks After Hours thread to say that anyone who is a Christian is stupid?

Don't start.

And everyone else, stick to the topic. I know many of you are desperate for an anti-religion rant, but stick to the topic which is about a statement from one guy.

krudler

philologos wrote: »

I take it this is this weeks After Hours thread to say that anyone who is a Christian is stupid?

Just ones who make stupid statements.

flutterflye

philologos wrote: »

Oh, believe me, I've got no intention of getting up there I'm just noticing the typical trends on After Hours. In retrospect, it seems that all he's said from reading the article is although pregnancy through rape is deeply unfortunate and difficult, that a child born from rape is not necessarily a bad thing.

If he did say that, I doubt people would be that angry.
But he didn't.
Maybe he meant to say that? Who knows.
All I know is that the way he said it is deeply offensive and insensitive, and downright stupid.

Lyaiera

philologos wrote: »

Oh, believe me, I've got no intention of getting up there I'm just noticing the typical trends on After Hours. In retrospect, it seems that all he's said from reading the article is although pregnancy through rape is deeply unfortunate and difficult, that a child born from rape is not necessarily a bad thing.

No, a child born from rape isn't a bad thing, if the woman wants to carry the pregnancy to term (and is ready to deal with the child.) Forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term that was caused by a rape is immoral.

Corkfeen

philologos wrote: »

Oh, believe me, I've got no intention of getting up there I'm just noticing the typical trends on After Hours. In retrospect, it seems that all he's said from reading the article is although pregnancy through rape is deeply unfortunate and difficult, that a child born from rape is not necessarily a bad thing.

His exact words "And, I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."...

Mark200

philologos wrote: »

Oh, believe me, I've got no intention of getting up there I'm just noticing the typical trends on After Hours. In retrospect, it seems that all he's said from reading the article is although pregnancy through rape is deeply unfortunate and difficult, that a child born from rape is not necessarily a bad thing.

Go to 3:08 here to see what he said:

Rayne Wooney

God's will?
So say if a highly religious woman is raped and becomes pregnant, will she accept that it is just god's will?

I've read that the punishment for the man who rapes is to marry his victim, would the woman marry the man who raped her, following god's will?

I'm sure Mr Mourdock would say yes to both of these questions, but I find it hard to believe any woman could actually do this

PopePalpatine

seamus wrote: »

If pregnancy from rape is "intended by god", then logically the act of rape too was "intended by god".

So too is the act of bashing this fucker's head in.

philologos

Mark200 wrote: »

Go to 3:08 here to see what he said:

Admittedly, I don't find it wholly objectionable. It depends on how you understand God's sovereignty and the argument as to the problem of evil. There's a third option, sometimes what is evil, God intends for good.

When we speak of God's will, as Christians we can use it in 3 ways, 2 Biblically sound, the other not so really.
1. What God has done, or will do in this Creation.
2. What God has commanded of His people in this Creation.
3. What God's plan is for our lives.

3 is the wooly one (as if 1 is the case, we can already know what God's will is for our lives by the very fact it will happen, we don't need to guess or seek it out). 1 and 2 are very Biblically sound.

The obvious Biblical example is when Joseph is sold into slavery in Egypt by his brothers, Joseph says to his brothers when they are reunited at the end of the Genesis account:

Genesis 50:19-21 wrote:

But Joseph said to them, “Do not fear, for am I in the place of God? 20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today. 21 So do not fear; I will provide for you and your little ones.” Thus he comforted them and spoke kindly to them

In this case, God intended the evil that happened to Joseph for good. I suspect in this case the speaker is arguing the same. Rape is a great evil, but life even as a result of pregnancy even from rape is a blessing.

I have no issue with that, and I don't see how it's objectionable.

loveisdivine

philologos wrote: »

Rape is a great evil, but life even as a result of pregnancy even from rape is a blessing.

.

A blessing to who? I can really imagine after giving birth to a baby concieved by rape, your first though would be "oh well I'm so blessed to have been raped, now I have this little bundle of joy"

jaja321

philologos wrote: »

Rape is a great evil, but life even as a result of pregnancy even from rape is a blessing.

I have no issue with that, and I don't see how it's objectionable.

A blessing for who? I'm not sure many rape victims would see it that way.

krudler

philologos wrote: »

In this case, God intended the evil that happened to Joseph for good. I suspect in this case the speaker is arguing the same. Rape is a great evil, but life even as a result of pregnancy even from rape is a blessing.

I have no issue with that, and I don't see how it's objectionable.

Good thing you can't become pregnant by rape then isn't it. Hear that ladies, unwanted pregnancy through sexual assault is a blessing.

fuck off.

jaja321

krudler wrote: »

Good thing you can't become pregnant by rape then isn't it. Hear that ladies, unwanted pregnancy through sexual assault is a blessing.

fuck off.

Exactly - very easy for someone who will never have to go through that to say. **** like that drives me crazy.

kowloon

Just noticed this after looking at the above video.

Nodin

hooradiation wrote: »

Just because your saviour was on the cross doesn't mean you've got to hop up there at the slightest provocation.

I salute you Sir. That was a good one.

philologos

krudler wrote: »

Good thing you can't become pregnant by rape then isn't it. Hear that ladies, unwanted pregnancy through sexual assault is a blessing.

fuck off.

Charming, that isn't what I said. What I said was that rape isn't a good thing whatsoever at all and neither did he.

What I did say is that a life irrespective of how it is conceived is still a great blessing.

How about you put away the expletives and stop strawmanning what I'm saying with faux-outrage?

krudler

philologos wrote: »

Charming, that isn't what I said. What I said was that rape isn't a good thing whatsoever at all and neither did he.

What I did say is that a life irrespective of how it is conceived is still a great blessing.

How about you put away the expletives and stop strawmanning what I'm saying with faux-outrage?

Are you saying pregnancy through rape is a good thing or aren't you? Can we skip to the part where you run away from a thread when called out on your bullsh1t, you know how this goes by now.

Ellis Dee

This guy is clearly confusing God's will with the rapist's willy.:D

Wouldn't it be a wonderful world for rapists if they could do the crime and their imaginary friend the sky fairy - the instigator and accessory before, during and after the fact - could do the time? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wingnuts like those Teabaggers are, however, right according to what passes for logic in their confused minds insofar as everything is supposed to be part of some kind of divine plan. We shouldn't be surprised at anything that flows from the lips of anyone who believes anything so absurd.:)

philologos

krudler wrote: »

Are you saying pregnancy through rape is a good thing or aren't you? Can we skip to the part where you run away from a thread when called out on your bullsh1t, you know how this goes by now.

I don't know, maybe you should read my post first instead of seeking to be outraged at a relatively non-controversial position. Although evil exists, it can work out for good. I've seen this to certain degrees in my own life. There are a lot of bad / painful things that people go through and on occasion they can work out for good even if intended for evil.

That's the position in short that I can see. For as long as you're interested in pulling an elaborate strawman from his position you'll come up with whatever the heck you like.

g'em

philologos wrote: »

I don't know, maybe you should read my post first instead of seeking to be outraged at a relatively non-controversial position. Although evil exists, it can work out for good. I've seen this to certain degrees in my own life. There are a lot of bad / painful things that people go through and on occasion they can work out for good even if intended for evil.

philologos I respect your Christian take on the situation, I honestly do. But people are going to react to this fervently and perhaps have a go at you because the opinions you hold sound like they are putting a positive spin on the act of rape itself.

As a woman, to hear someone try to tell me that the outcome of a crime as heinous, personal and degrading as rape is a 'blessing' is something that I can't even comprehend. Rape (of man or woman) invokes primal fear and anger, it is evil on every level possible. In order for me to be able to consider the outcome a blessing it would involve making some sort of peace with the act itself, and I just don't see myself being able to do that. Not hypothetically anyway.

So with respect to your beliefs, I really don't think that the "babies are a blessing" argument has ANY place to play in discussions of rape.

ScumLord

Well god did rape Mary so there's some precedent there that he's cool with rape.

super_furry

Yep, their God is a dick.

3ndahalfof6

So he raped Mary.

philologos

g'em: how do you think society should understand children born through rape? I think my framework as a Christian helps me to understand how I should see other people irrespective of circumstances namely as people born in the image of God. As a result this motivates how Christians seek to love and respect others even those who viciously hate them or what they stand for.

People can react how they like. Taking a strawman of what is said is dishonest though. I've not said rape was positive, if others construe it that way that's lying. Good can sometimes emerge from evil, I think that's true of life that cones out of a horrific situation like that.

Death and Taxes

Who is this guy? A spokesman for the Catholic Hierarchy, or the PRO for Youth Defence?:mad:

Paddycrumlinman

philologos wrote: »

Charming, that isn't what I said. What I said was that rape isn't a good thing whatsoever at all and neither did he.

What I did say is that a life irrespective of how it is conceived is still a great blessing.

How about you put away the expletives and stop strawmanning what I'm saying with faux-outrage?

Man, I've read your Jesus / God s hit on here for a while now and you are really taking the fooking biscuit with your religious bull-****.

You are a deluded troll my friend, and if you really believe a life that is created out of Rape is a great blessing, which I'm assuming is a blessing from your stupid fooking god, well sir you are truly crazy and are in for a major disappointment at some stage.,

You are a sick twisted individual I have to admit. Wow factor is just crazy.

ScumLord

philologos wrote: »

g'em: how do you think society should understand children born through rape? I think my framework as a Christian helps me to understand how I should see other people irrespective of circumstances namely as people born in the image of God.

I don't think anyone in modern society blames the child for what happened to their mother but you do seem to be validating the actions of the rapist making him out to be a tool for gods work.

Yes a child is "a blessing" and the mother will more than likely love them regardless but just because a child of rape can be good, normal and a benefit to the parent doesn't make the rapist a considerate person for bestowing that gift on his victim. The ends don't justify the means because that woman could have gone on to have a child in a more traditional family, with a mother and father and without all the anguish.

Unless there's evidence the children of rape turn out to be super productive members of society I think there's no evidence that children of rape are a necessity to gods plan.

super_furry

See that's all well and good but why are people attempting to make laws based on something they can't prove exists? They not only claim to be certain of the existence of a mystical all powerful being that we can't verifibily see, hear or touch. But that they also know what this invisible man wants and that they have the right to tell others how to live their lives and how to behave on the basis of what they think this invisible man wants.