Malahide castle. A rip off

LeoB

I was in Malahide castle on Sunday with a few friends taking some pictures as its a good spot for a walk with a few decent trails,

One of our group went into an office and was stunned to learn it was €12 into the gardens. Is this a new charge they have put on it? After our stroll we went for a snack to end our morning and I was shocked to be charged €5.50 for tea and a scone, I thought I could bring the cup home. It was only £6 into Giants Caueway and £5 to carrick a rede rope bridge (they may have increased since their new visitor centre opened.). The botanic gardens is €2 for the car park and from my last trip there it was around €4 for tea and scone.

I think this is a right rip off. If you were to go in as a family and each have tea and scone its €22. Are they trying to scare people off? On one hand we try and encourage people to go out and use public parks and walking trails and on the other we rip them off.

peteb2

no offence but its not like its some hokey little OPW cafe. Its an Avoca cafe. So it was always going to pricey. I was down there for lunch a few weeks ago. I paid close to €40 for what we'll call a mains and a dessert. But knew it was going to go like that so was perfectly prepared to do so. Costs me exactly the same in Avoca in Kilmecanoque.

subway

parking is free
access to the grounds is free
malahide village with plenty of other options for lunch is also free.
i think you basically turned what could have been a free (or relatively cheap) day out into an expensive one.

i dont know whats involved in the running of the site or how much they get from the state, but i'd imagine that a fairly expensive charge is needed to keep it running. i dont know how long its been charging that much but its on their website (just checked) so it cant be a new thing. family tickets available etc. comparing it with the giants causeway might be a bit unfair, if you take the upkeep comparison into it.

i would have agreed with you about the cafe as i always thought it was a canteen sytle place (never been in it) except, as peteb says, it recently became an avoca cafe according to their site, which is known to be more expensive in general.
there is a starbucks in malahide village, tea there would be around 2.50 and a scone is around 4 (i believe these prices are close estimates) so fairly inline with what you paid in avoca. both do good business so that would suggest theyve got the price right

desbrook

Just bear in mind Leo that for a cafe owner the length of time someone takes up a table for is as important as what they order in working out an appropriate charge . In a venue like Malahide the customer will probably have spent a considerable time walking etc and the real purpose of the tea and scone is to have a sit down and chat . Add to this the possibility that they may be sheltering from bad weather you could be looking at a lengthy stay ! I know too from a contact that the FCC charge the going rate and more to cafe owners on their amenities .
The other option is for FCC to run it themselves . I think the labour costs would double overnight and your tea and scone would also have to supplement their pension . Tea and scone for 8euro anyone ?

LeoB

Do we not pay enough in various charges to FCC without this expensive cafe? I dont care who runs the cafe but in such a public funded facility its out of the reach of people out with kids for a day. After all it is our money that goes into Fingal to maintain these grounds and I think it is over the top to charge so much. If Avoca had a shop down the main st in Malahide they could charge what they want and people could go and pay whatever they want but this is over the top in a public funded amenity.

Or maybe they just want a certain type of clientele?...

al28283

LeoB wrote: »

Do we not pay enough in various charges to FCC without this expensive cafe? I dont care who runs the cafe but in such a public funded facility its out of the reach of people out with kids for a day. After all it is our money that goes into Fingal to maintain these grounds and I think it is over the top to charge so much. If Avoca had a shop down the main st in Malahide they could charge what they want and people could go and pay whatever they want but this is over the top in a public funded amenity.

Or maybe they just want a certain type of clientele?...

Do your taxes go to the cafe itself?

peteb2

You don't have to go into the Cafe. As people have pointed out there are numerous other places you can go in the village. The cafe isn't operated by Fingal so your charges have nothing to do with this.

Again feel free to walk around the grounds of the castle that your charges pay for but you don't have to pay in for. And what charges do you pay to FCC? Because I only pay the bin charge to a private operator and the household charge. I didnt recall a castle-cafe levy!

Bottom line - if you aren't happy, vote with your feet. You had a choice and you chose to pay for your scone and tea.

subway

LeoB wrote: »

Do we not pay enough in various charges to FCC without this expensive cafe?

i pay more than enough with the need to fund cafes in castles tbh. not sure what your point is anymore. avoca pay a fee to fingal, avoca charge what the market will take.
the other option is FCC run it, which as pointed out will probably be more expensive and provide a very basic catering cafe which probably wont get any business anyway.

pinkypinky

I believe the gardens have been newly renovated as well - they'll be opening the walled garden to the public for the first time in decades next year too. There was always a charge into the botanic garden part before it closed for doing up.

Avoca is expensive - you know what you're getting into with it. It's a max 15 minute to the village where there are lots of other options.

LeoB

peteb2 wrote: »

You don't have to go into the Cafe. As people have pointed out there are numerous other places you can go in the village. The cafe isn't operated by Fingal so your charges have nothing to do with this.

Again feel free to walk around the grounds of the castle that your charges pay for but you don't have to pay in for. And what charges do you pay to FCC? Because I only pay the bin charge to a private operator and the household charge. I didnt recall a castle-cafe levy!

Bottom line - if you aren't happy, vote with your feet. You had a choice and you chose to pay for your scone and tea.

Are you telling me my charges and tax over the years did not help fund this? Is parking free in Malahide town? Maybe they should have a fee for parking €1. My simple point is this is a public funded park which I have contributed to over many years, like many others. Fingal have created a market here which I feel excludes a growing number of people in this climate.

I have voted with my feet and so have 2 tour operators who I spoke to last evening about another matter, this just happened to come up hense the thread. Its an awful pity as the place looks wellbut I feel pretty sure more will follow suit. It would be great to see more people use the park and grounds but make it afordable for everyone not just the people with money in their pockets.

Paulw

Just wondering, if you have raised the issue with the cafe managament and with Fingal Co Co?

eddiem74

LeoB wrote: »

Or maybe they just want a certain type of clientele?...

Hopefully, nice to have a cuppa away from the peasant folk...:P :pac:

peteb2

LeoB wrote: »

It would be great to see more people use the park and grounds but make it afordable for everyone not just the people with money in their pockets.

People can use the park and their grounds without having to pay to have coffee. There's no charge for parking at the weekend. You don't have to visit the walled gardens, there is plenty more space for just wandering around the park.

And to be honest I think you are wrong about an awful lot more people following suit. Whilst people may not visit the gardens - and to be honest a lot more probably didnt which is why it is not the council operating the place - the cafe and shop in the courtyard will do quite well as other Avoca facilities do. You are paying for quality food. If you dont believe it maybe try more than a scone next time but be prepaped to pay!!

LeoB

Paulw wrote: »

Just wondering, if you have raised the issue with the cafe managament and with Fingal Co Co?

Have sent email to F.C.C today. I did not mention it to manager when I was there, I should have. I think Fingal should have some input or put a cap on what they charge.

snowey07

I had a scone in a pub in town last week - Got the bill and it was €4.50 !!!!!!!!!!! Queried it and the girl just looked at me

Mr.Wemmick

The trouble with places like this now is if it they do over charge, they lose custom.. and in order to keep themselves in business and recuperate their loses, they up their charges. Round and round it goes..

It's just like the country really.. the costs are running far too high and we all have less money to spend.

Good luck with FCC. There should indeed be some clarity towards the cost of running the place and the amount they charge the public.

peteb2

LeoB wrote: »

Have sent email to F.C.C today. I did not mention it to manager when I was there, I should have. I think Fingal should have some input or put a cap on what they charge.

Why do you think Fingal should have the ability to put a cap on what a private operator charges? That's like saying that the DAA should stop people getting fleeced for a sandwich when they pass security at the airport!

People are running a busines and entitled to charge what they feel is a reasonable price and what people are prepared to accept. People ARE prepared to accept because the place is jam packed most of the time. If you think it's outrageous, don't go for a coffee and a scone. Its that simple. If its refreshment you seek and aren't fussed about the ambience, well i;m sure the Centra shop on the corner of the Diamond in Malahide does a perfectly respectable coffee for €2 and scone for €1. Just don't expect a table or chair!

LeoB

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

The trouble with places like this now is if it they do over charge, they lose custom.. and in order to keep themselves in business and recuperate their loses, they up their charges. Round and round it goes..

It's just like the country really.. the costs are running far too high and we all have less money to spend.

Good luck with FCC. There should indeed be some clarity towards the cost of running the place and the amount they charge the public.

Fair point made there. I agree this could well backfire. The cost of doing business is excessive so Maybe FCC could do something with their rates?

peteb2 wrote: »

Why do you think Fingal should have the ability to put a cap on what a private operator charges? That's like saying that the DAA should stop people getting fleeced for a sandwich when they pass security at the airport!

Yes I do think they should have some input, it tax payers money that paid for a lot of the development. And yes DAA should also stop these places ripping people off. At every turn Irish people are getting screwed but it just aint good enough when its happening in public parks.

peteb2 wrote: »

People are running a busines and entitled to charge what they feel is a reasonable price and what people are prepared to accept. People ARE prepared to accept because the place is jam packed most of the time. If you think it's outrageous, don't go for a coffee and a scone. Its that simple. If its refreshment you seek and aren't fussed about the ambience, well i;m sure the Centra shop on the corner of the Diamond in Malahide does a perfectly respectable coffee for €2 and scone for €1. Just don't expect a table or chair!

People are running a business in a public park so its not as if Avoca in this case have poured millions into the castle and grounds over they years. I have no wish to go to Malahide village but I do like the castle and grounds and dont expect to be ripped off. If people want a nice coffee and scone let them go to a nice coffee shop in the village and let all people enjoy the castle and grounds.

peteb2

I stand to be corrected. But is it not a park operated in trust on behalf of the Talbot family?

People can enjoy the grounds, as i've mentioned before there is a huge amount of park that you don't get charged into. It's just the walled gardens that your bug-bear is with so stop dragging all the grounds into it!

LeoB

peteb2 wrote: »

I stand to be corrected. But is it not a park operated in trust on behalf of the Talbot family?

People can enjoy the grounds, as i've mentioned before there is a huge amount of park that you don't get charged into. It's just the walled gardens that your bug-bear is with so stop dragging all the grounds into it!

Not so much a bug bear as fed up getting ripped off. I enjoy the place every time I go there as do my kids and friends. But the prices are way out of reach of a lot of people and just because its in Malahide or ran by Avoca does not give them the right to fleece people.

Avoca in its pwn right is a very nice place but when in a park or castle grounds like this they or anyone else running a coffee shop should have set guidlines as to what they can charge.

al28283

LeoB wrote: »

Avoca in its pwn right is a very nice place but when in a park or castle grounds like this they or anyone else running a coffee shop should have set guidlines as to what they can charge.

Why?

Ella

LeoB wrote: »

Have sent email to F.C.C today. I did not mention it to manager when I was there, I should have. I think Fingal should have some input or put a cap on what they charge.

Are you having a laugh? Should Dublin city council do the same for all the cafes in the city centre? You get free use of the grounds in the castle, free playground for the kids and free parking. Bring a flask of tea and your own scones with you next time.

Anita Blow

LeoB wrote: »

I enjoy the place every time I go there as do my kids and friends. But the prices are way out of reach of a lot of people and just because its in Malahide or ran by Avoca does not give them the right to fleece people.

You aren't forced to go to Avoca. If you feel the prices are out of reach, then don't go there. Many people clearly don't feel they're out of reach as the place is constantly packed since it opened.
If you don't want to pay their prices, then go somewhere in the village. You can't expect a private business to change their prices because you don't want to walk into the village.

LeoB wrote: »

Avoca in its pwn right is a very nice place but when in a park or castle grounds like this they or anyone else running a coffee shop should have set guidlines as to what they can charge.

Why? It's a private business. It's ridiculous to suggest government should dictate how much a cafe can charge for a scone. If the prices are too high, then the market will decide and the place will go out of business. Until then, the place is packed and doing good business.

desbrook

Anita Blow wrote: »

You aren't forced to go to Avoca. If you feel the prices are out of reach, then don't go there. Many people clearly don't feel they're out of reach as the place is constantly packed since it opened.
If you don't want to pay their prices, then go somewhere in the village. You can't expect a private business to change their prices because you don't want to walk into the village.

Why? It's a private business. It's ridiculous to suggest government should dictate how much a cafe can charge for a scone. If the prices are too high, then the market will decide and the place will go out of business. Until then, the place is packed and doing good business.

I agree with everything you say Anita except for one thing - for a true "free market " you need competition not a monopoly - private or public . Therefore FCC should really let out two units to compete with each other in the castle grounds .

deelite

I go to Malahide Castle with the children regularly and we all enjoy it immensely and we bring our own flask / sandwiches etc because we couldn't afford the cafe prices. On the other hand we also go down to Glencree, lovely walks, scenery etc., and we go to a lovely cafe in the Glencreen Centre (not Avoca afaik) and for myself ( coffee) and the 3 kids had meals the price was just under 20 euro.

I would like if Malahide Castle had a similar set-up.

LeoB

al28283 wrote: »

Why?

Ella wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? Should Dublin city council do the same for all the cafes in the city centre? You get free use of the grounds in the castle, free playground for the kids and free parking. Bring a flask of tea and your own scones with you next time.

The last time I checked O'Connell St, Grafton, St nor Temple Bar were not in public parks;)

Anita Blow wrote: »

You aren't forced to go to Avoca. If you feel the prices are out of reach, then don't go there. Many people clearly don't feel they're out of reach as the place is constantly packed since it opened.
If you don't want to pay their prices, then go somewhere in the village. You can't expect a private business to change their prices because you don't want to walk into the village..

The prices are not out of my reach I just think its another rip-off.

Anita Blow wrote: »

Why? It's a private business. It's ridiculous to suggest government should dictate how much a cafe can charge for a scone. If the prices are too high, then the market will decide and the place will go out of business. Until then, the place is packed and doing good business.

Why? Its a private business being ran in a public park

Im not suggesting Goverment say how much someone charges for a scone but in a public park/castle grounds where families go I think the prices charged are over the top.

Make it more affordable and get more people in? Maybe Fingal or Avoca want a certain clientele going there.

peteb2

Once again if you dont want to pay that much for coffee, just dont buy coffee there.

LeoB

Once again I think its just another Irish rip-off.

I can well afford it but quite a few cant. Quite a few will be put off going there and that's not what it should be about. It should be about getting people in and enjoying the whole place.
On the other hand, If people want coffee in Avoca let them head for Avoca in Kilmacanogue or some nice little coffee shop in Temple Bar.

peteb2

The price of a coffee won't put people off going down to play cricket, pitch and putt, visit the playground, walk the dog. Like I said you are assuming that everyone that goes down to Malahide Castle wants to have a coffee because you did and werent impressed with the prices.

Anita Blow

LeoB wrote: »

Why? Its a private business being ran in a public park

Im not suggesting Goverment say how much someone charges for a scone but in a public park/castle grounds where families go I think the prices charged are over the top.

Make it more affordable and get more people in? Maybe Fingal or Avoca want a certain clientele going there.

Exactly, it's a private business. It doesn't matter if it's in a public park or not.
As said before, the place is packed so there's obviously many people who don't feel the prices are over the top.
The cafe is not a central feature of Malahide Castle and it is a 10 minute walk from a village full of cafes. I really doubt it factors into people's decision to visit the park that much.

Eoineo

I'm genuinely surprised that you say tour operators are pulling the castle off their itineraries. The cafe is the kind of place that tourists love to go to in my experience. Expect to see the castle & cafe jampacked over the summer when the touring season picks up.

Did you ever eat in the old cafe inside the castle before it closed? The prices were within the same range.