Malahide castle. A rip off

LeoB

peteb2 wrote: »

The price of a coffee won't put people off going down to play cricket, pitch and putt, visit the playground, walk the dog. Like I said you are assuming that everyone that goes down to Malahide Castle wants to have a coffee because you did and werent impressed with the prices.

It probably wont put you or me off but I feel it will put other off who dont have the money to visit the coffee shop. As I said before I feel it should be for everyone

desbrook

LeoB wrote: »

It probably wont put you or me off but I feel it will put other off who dont have the money to visit the coffee shop. As I said before I feel it should be for everyone

After all these posts we know you have a problem with the prices in the coffee shop but it's no use moaning unless you have a better and viable solution. I've suggested creating and letting two competing units (as the Pavilions does with most kinds of shops). You've chosen to ignore my suggestion which is fair enough but nowhere have YOU suggested anything . Isn't it about time you did?

darkmockeray

Enough has been said about Avoca on this thread, it's prices are at the high end but certainly not the dearest spot for lunch, coffee/tea in Dublin, and if people don't like the prices they have plenty of other places to go to in the locality when they come out to visit the Castle.

I have some thoughts on the tour price guys, after been in contact Malahide Castle/Fingal County Council throughout this process, I learnt alot about the sorry state the Castle was in, and the realities involved in securing it for the future. It was fast approaching its last legs in its current condition as a tourist attraction/functioning building. Structurally it was really in a bad way, as it hadn't received any meaningful work since the 70's so was in dire need all round for some serious improvements and renovation. It also needed to be self sufficient, to be able to generate going forward, whatever funds that were needed for the work that was done or it wasn't going to get done.

The €12 tour price is a reflection of the debt that vital work has created plus a reflection of the wonderfully wide scope that the tour offers visitors; Walled Garden Tour, West Garden Tour, Garden Interpretive Centre, Castle Tour and the Castle Museum. All in all it's effectively a 2 hour tour, that is really stunning and enjoyable, plus you could easily take your time on a nice day and double it to 4 hours.

To put that price in perspective, the tour of Newgrange (Visitors Centre, Newgrange and Knowth Megalithic Tombs) costs an adult € 11, and the Guinness Storehouse is €16.50, and the cinema will put you back €10 - €12.

Plans are in motion for a locals loyalty membership, but ideally I would like to see a separate ticket as well as an all inclusive one so people that have done the tour of the actual Castle building itself, could get a ticket for the Secret Walled Garden as it'd be great to visit the gardens a few times a year at different seasons. The Secret Walled Garden is really so beautiful, great for a wander and a picnic with kiddies or friends.

In my opinion the Castle is a real treasure, and it's finally got the make over it deserved. We are so lucky to have it on our doorstep, and the price is comparable to various similar tours, and by going not only do you help secure the future of the Castle, but you also get to visit arguably the top historical tourist attraction in the country, and all the knowledge, adventure, and culture it provides.

My apologies if I sound like I'm preaching up on my soapbox, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the cost of the tour, and this is mine

LeoB

Eoineo wrote: »

I'm genuinely surprised that you say tour operators are pulling the castle off their itineraries. The cafe is the kind of place that tourists love to go to in my experience. Expect to see the castle & cafe jampacked over the summer when the touring season picks up.

Did you ever eat in the old cafe inside the castle before it closed? The prices were within the same range.

I spoke to about 5 tour companies and 2 had pulled it. Don't know how they price their itinerary but if you were visiting a few places in one day it would be an expensive tour? I am sure they want to pitch their prices with the best Value they can.

desbrook wrote: »

I agree with everything you say Anita except for one thing - for a true "free market " you need competition not a monopoly - private or public . Therefore FCC should really let out two units to compete with each other in the castle grounds .

desbrook wrote: »

After all these posts we know you have a problem with the prices in the coffee shop but it's no use moaning unless you have a better and viable solution. I've suggested creating and letting two competing units (as the Pavilions does with most kinds of shops). You've chosen to ignore my suggestion which is fair enough but nowhere have YOU suggested anything . Isn't it about time you did?

You replied to Anita blow not me but if it was meant for me you could have included a quote..

If you read through the thread you will see I have tried to reply to each post. You make a fair point and maybe it would help.

I could go with the suggestion of 2 competing for the custom. However I have to point out I have no problem with Avoca what I got was nice but pricy. Maybe Fingal should look at doing a deal of some kind with Avoca. I am sure they are paying big money to be there and Fingal could I am sure with a little imagination find a way to assist Avoca with their costs and pass these on to all customers which I did suggest earlier.

LeoB

darkmockeray wrote: »

Enough has been said about Avoca on this thread, it's prices are at the high end but certainly not the dearest spot for lunch, coffee/tea in Dublin, and if people don't like the prices they have plenty of other places to go to in the locality when they come out to visit the Castle.

I have some thoughts on the tour price guys, after been in contact Malahide Castle/Fingal County Council throughout this process, I learnt alot about the sorry state the Castle was in, and the realities involved in securing it for the future. It was fast approaching its last legs in its current condition as a tourist attraction/functioning building. Structurally it was really in a bad way, as it hadn't received any meaningful work since the 70's so was in dire need all round for some serious improvements and renovation. It also needed to be self sufficient, to be able to generate going forward, whatever funds that were needed for the work that was done or it wasn't going to get done.

The €12 tour price is a reflection of the debt that vital work has created plus a reflection of the wonderfully wide scope that the tour offers visitors; Walled Garden Tour, West Garden Tour, Garden Interpretive Centre, Castle Tour and the Castle Museum. All in all it's effectively a 2 hour tour, that is really stunning and enjoyable, plus you could easily take your time on a nice day and double it to 4 hours.

To put that price in perspective, the tour of Newgrange (Visitors Centre, Newgrange and Knowth Megalithic Tombs) costs an adult € 11, and the Guinness Storehouse is €16.50, and the cinema will put you back €10 - €12.

Plans are in motion for a locals loyalty membership, but ideally I would like to see a separate ticket as well as an all inclusive one so people that have done the tour of the actual Castle building itself, could get a ticket for the Secret Walled Garden as it'd be great to visit the gardens a few times a year at different seasons. The Secret Walled Garden is really so beautiful, great for a wander and a picnic with kiddies or friends.

In my opinion the Castle is a real treasure, and it's finally got the make over it deserved. We are so lucky to have it on our doorstep, and the price is comparable to various similar tours, and by going not only do you help secure the future of the Castle, but you also get to visit arguably the top historical tourist attraction in the country, and all the knowledge, adventure, and culture it provides.

My apologies if I sound like I'm preaching up on my soapbox, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the cost of the tour, and this is mine

My problem was not with the castle price as such, I felt the price of Tea and scone was over the top.

No body can argue with the value of Keeping a place like the castle open and safe for the public. It is a beautiful place for a walk. To compare it to a trip to the cinema??? I expect to pay into the cinema and don't object to paying into a most places. But this whole experience could well put a lot of people off going at all which was my point.

No need to apologize, you are right to have a rant every now and then, it does us good;)

Unshelved

I was there on Sunday. In contrast to LeoB's opinion, I thought the coffee - at least the takeaway coffee from Avoca which we had - was good value. I think an americano cost about €2.40, which is reasonable.

However I think at €12 entrance fee into the Castle, walled garden and west lawn is ridiculous. As someone else said, it's €11 in to see the Newgrange visitors centre with guided tours of Newgrange AND Knowth (and that's a Unesco world heritage site). In Athens I paid €12 to see the Acropolis and that also paid for entrance to all the other archaeological sites in the city.

€12 to see a nice - but frankly not exactly spectacular - castle and grounds is unrealistic. People will just do as we did - have a lovely walk in the grounds and either bring a picnic or have a nice takeaway coffee.

darkmockeray

'Unshelved' the €12 tour price is a reflection of the debt that vital work has created plus a reflection of the wonderfully wide scope that the tour offers visitors; Walled Garden Tour, West Garden Tour, Garden Interpretive Centre, Castle Tour and the Castle Museum. Did you do the tour? All in all it's effectively a 2 hour tour, that is actually really stunning and enjoyable, plus you could easily take your time on a nice day and double it to 4 hours.

To put that price in perspective, the tour of Newgrange (Visitors Centre, Newgrange and Knowth Megalithic Tombs) costs an adult € 11, and the Guinness Storehouse is €16.50, and the cinema will put you back €10 - €12. Which really makes the Castle Tour price pretty much bang on. They are looking to bring in a year membership for people that may return regularly, plus they are now putting a plan in motion for a separate ticket for the castle or garden, which will offer a cheaper condensed tour for those that want to pick and choose. It's an incredible day out for a family, couple or individual, when you factor in the Castle grounds, the children's playground and proximity to Malahide Beach. Bring a packed lunch and you have a full day to occupy any adult or child.

Unshelved

I'm afraid that we're going to have to agree to disagree. Newgrange is world famous, older than the pyramids, is absolutely stunning and costs €1 less to visit. Malahide is a nice enough castle in lovely grounds but I'm afraid in my opinion is definitely not worth the entrance fee. I appreciate that a lot of work has gone into the restoration but quite frankly €12pp is extortionate.

If you look at the sites at the Heritage Ireland website you will see that a visit to a site comparable to Malahide is considerably cheaper. Trim Castle costs €4 to visit, Cahir Castle costs €3, and the Rock of Cashel costs €6, Newgrange is the most expensive place to visit at €11 and you can visit every Heritage Ireland site for a year for €20 if you buy a Heritage Card (I don't work for them btw).

I was at Malahide Castle on Sunday and I saw a lot of people turn away when they saw what was being charged for a visit. I'm afraid that it's far too expensive and I'd say that the visitor numbers will reflect this.

(Having said that, paying €16 into the Guinness Storehouse is beyond my comprehension altogether!)

Eoineo

LeoB wrote: »

I spoke to about 5 tour companies and 2 had pulled it. Don't know how they price their itinerary but if you were visiting a few places in one day it would be an expensive tour? I am sure they want to pitch their prices with the best Value they can.

Hardly expensive compared to other locations. I'm not 100% what the group or touring discount is but I'd be confident there is one.

Most touring companies that I'm familiar have wound up their regular schedule at this stage in the year so it's not a case of simply pulling out. Those that are still operating in the luxury tour business that I'm familiar with are still using the Castle. Disclaimer- A family member works in the touring industry.

spiderman1885

Come over to Portmarnock, I'll give you a coffee and a half eaten scone on the green for €3.

LeoB

spiderman1885 wrote: »

Come over to Portmarnock, I'll give you a coffee and a half eaten scone on the green for €3.

There will be 8 of us next week....Discount?

LeoB

Unshelved wrote: »

I'm afraid that we're going to have to agree to disagree. Newgrange is world famous, older than the pyramids, is absolutely stunning and costs €1 less to visit. Malahide is a nice enough castle in lovely grounds but I'm afraid in my opinion is definitely not worth the entrance fee. I appreciate that a lot of work has gone into the restoration but quite frankly €12pp is extortionate.

If you look at the sites at the Heritage Ireland website you will see that a visit to a site comparable to Malahide is considerably cheaper. Trim Castle costs €4 to visit, Cahir Castle costs €3, and the Rock of Cashel costs €6, Newgrange is the most expensive place to visit at €11 and you can visit every Heritage Ireland site for a year for €20 if you buy a Heritage Card (I don't work for them btw).

I was at Malahide Castle on Sunday and I saw a lot of people turn away when they saw what was being charged for a visit. I'm afraid that it's far too expensive and I'd say that the visitor numbers will reflect this.

(Having said that, paying €16 into the Guinness Storehouse is beyond my comprehension altogether!)

This over charging could cost us in the long run. Agree there has been great work done but I feel we could price ourselves out of tourists plans.

Considering next year we have the gathering it is vital for us that we pitch all our tourist attractions keenly and don't take the quick buck. I suspect tourist numbers will be up in 2013 so we have an opportunity to market every site and generate repeat business.

3GAINSBOROUGH

How much is it to just view the Castle only?

Scortho

LeoB wrote: »

Yes I do think they should have some input, it tax payers money that paid for a lot of the development. And yes DAA should also stop these places ripping people off. At every turn Irish people are getting screwed but it just aint good enough when its happening in public parks.

If Avoca are getting the place rate and rent free then yes, FCC should have an input on pricing.
However if as i suspect Avoca are paying rents and significant rates, then surely they're allowed operate it as a private enterprise, as thats what it is.

I suspect FCC when deciding whether to operate it themselves, or lease it out, obviously felt that the Avoca option was more viable.
If I'm going into a park that has a coffee shop I have the option to pay for it or not!
I know with Avoca, that while the price may be higher, they offer a really good product that I will enjoy!

Also its a free market. If you think you can offer the same quality at a lower price then when it tenders again, you're more than welcome to apply!

Also Maybe next time though, bring a picnic!

shoegirl

subway wrote: »

i dont know whats involved in the running of the site or how much they get from the state, but i'd imagine that a fairly expensive charge is needed to keep it running. i dont know how long its been charging that much but its on their website (just checked) so it cant be a new thing. family tickets available etc. comparing it with the giants causeway might be a bit unfair, if you take the upkeep comparison into it.

There was always a charge for the tours of the house (no idea what it was), but a lot of the old businesses and exhibitions that were in the place for a good few years were booted out by the OPW to rejig the place.

I believe the Avoca cafe is very good - this is very much a place for ladies who lunch, and the quiet large minority who've been untouched by the downturn. Its debatable how much the change was needed. The Malahide setup had been largely the same since the 1970s and there probably was a case for bringing in an attractive operator like Avoca. That said, I think you can still park for free and wander around most of the grounds for nothing. <snip>

Beasty

Whilst constructive criticism is fine, please do not make derogatory remarks about businesses

Thanks

Beasty

LeoB

shoegirl wrote: »

There was always a charge for the tours of the house (no idea what it was), but a lot of the old businesses and exhibitions that were in the place for a good few years were booted out by the OPW to rejig the place.

I believe the Avoca cafe is very good - this is very much a place for ladies who lunch, and the quiet large minority who've been untouched by the downturn. Its debatable how much the change was needed. The Malahide setup had been largely the same since the 1970s and there probably was a case for bringing in an attractive operator like Avoca. That said, I think you can still park for free and wander around most of the grounds for nothing. <snip>

People always, well nearly always expect to pay to tour a big house like Malahide. I have no problem with this. But adding the cost of a tour and a visit to this new cafe will I FEEL put it way out of the reach of ordinary people and I dont like that

The Avoca cafe is excellent I agree but for here its overpriced in my opinion. If the minority of ladies want to do lunch that's great, perish the thought the majority who have been hit by the recession want to do lunch. It aint a playground for the rich;)

I am not sure there was ever huge change needed. Change for the sake of change? There are ways to improve loads of things

peteb2

Sweet Jeebus Leob. I think its been said to death at this stage but just once more - no one is making you go to the coffee shop!! There are a number of local establishments within a five 5 min walk. Out the gate of the park, and into Dunphy. At the diamond and go to ITSA.

I'm far from a lady who lunches. We've been seriously hit by the recession. But you know what, I'll still go down. Because sometimes its nice to treat yourself. And it really isn't that pricey for a coffee and a scone!

Stheno

peteb2 wrote: »

And it really isn't that pricey for a coffee and a scone!

5.50 for a coffee and a scone/pastry is what I would consider decent enough price wise.

Go to starbucks in pavillions and you'll pay at least that!

Or O'Briens

Tea and a scone might be about 50 cent less.

Mr.Wemmick

LeoB wrote: »

People always, well nearly always expect to pay to tour a big house like Malahide. I have no problem with this. But adding the cost of a tour and a visit to this new cafe will I FEEL put it way out of the reach of ordinary people and I dont like that

The Avoca cafe is excellent I agree but for here its overpriced in my opinion. If the minority of ladies want to do lunch that's great, perish the thought the majority who have been hit by the recession want to do lunch. It aint a playground for the rich;)

I am not sure there was ever huge change needed. Change for the sake of change? There are ways to improve loads of things

Am I the only person on this thread to get what you're talking about?

The majority of people in Ireland can't afford these prices, and that's why many places are upping the charge all the time because fewer of us are going through the doors. It's a no-win situation with so many services at the moment, I wonder where it'll end.

Fine if you know in advance what the charges are in the Castle, you can then bring your own snacks/lunch or find a cheaper place to drink coffee but new visitors, like many of us, will be caught off-guard with the cost, and with hungry, eager kids in tow, its no joke when you have been stung for a price you can't afford.. and not everyone will know there's a cheaper place around the corner.

The point here being that there is a reasonable amount one should expect to pay for a coffee, but here in Ireland it has become more and more expensive, ridiculously so..

Giving out to Leo for having a normal reaction to an ongoing-problem, and for taking the time to write about it and inform others of the costs is a bit off to say the least.

I for one, get it! So thanks for the info on this thread, appreciate it.

LeoB

peteb2 wrote: »

Sweet Jeebus Leob. I think its been said to death at this stage but just once more - no one is making you go to the coffee shop!! There are a number of local establishments within a five 5 min walk. Out the gate of the park, and into Dunphy. At the diamond and go to ITSA.

I'm far from a lady who lunches. We've been seriously hit by the recession. But you know what, I'll still go down. Because sometimes its nice to treat yourself. And it really isn't that pricey for a coffee and a scone!

Sweet Jeasus peteb2 why did you bother to reply? I have tried to reply to as many posts as possible. I treat myself and my good wife regularly and expect to pay stiff prices depending on where we go and thats fine as the restaurants have serious overheads. But just for you In this place I dont think its right.

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Am I the only person on this thread to get what you're talking about?

The majority of people in Ireland can't afford these prices, and that's why many places are upping the charge all the time because fewer of us are going through the doors. It's a no-win situation with so many services at the moment, I wonder where it'll end.

Fine if you know in advance what the charges are in the Castle, you can then bring your own snacks/lunch or find a cheaper place to drink coffee but new visitors, like many of us, will be caught off-guard with the cost, and with hungry, eager kids in tow, its no joke when you have been stung for a price you can't afford.. and not everyone will know there's a cheaper place around the corner.

The point here being that there is a reasonable amount one should expect to pay for a coffee, but here in Ireland it has become more and more expensive, ridiculously so..

Giving out to Leo for having a normal reaction to an ongoing-problem, and for taking the time to write about it and inform others of the costs is a bit off to say the least.

I for one, get it! So thanks for the info on this thread, appreciate it.

Very good post and very valid. You are right the majority of people cant afford these prices but I have the feeling parts this park is not really for the majority, its reserved for an elite clientele.

Look at the amount of people who holiday abroad because they cant afford the prices being charged here and as result we have a lot of places closing down. Malahide castle while still beautiful has gone out of reach of a lot of ordinary people.

peteb2

As i've already said, we are far from the elite in my household and I happily would go down there. I know what I am getting. And i know what I expect to pay in the place.

If you don't like it, vote with you feet as you already have!

Mr.Wemmick

LeoB wrote: »

Look at the amount of people who holiday abroad because they cant afford the prices being charged here and as result we have a lot of places closing down. Malahide castle while still beautiful has gone out of reach of a lot of ordinary people.

You're telling me! Just spent a brief time in Switzerland and it's cheaper than here.. and over the border in Germany, it's cheaper again.

Why, when our lovely country is so broke, and when each of us have so little money to spend, are costs so high? Oh but wait, high charges to pay for each other's, and the country's, debt. How long is that going to last - a recession within a recession, a downward spiral.

It's symbolic - the cost of that cup of coffee.

LeoB

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

You're telling me! Just spent a brief time in Switzerland and it's cheaper than here.. and over the border in Germany, it's cheaper again.

Why, when our lovely country is so broke, and when each of us have so little money to spend, are costs so high? Oh but wait, high charges to pay for each other's, and the country's, debt. How long is that going to last - a recession within a recession, a downward spiral.

It's symbolic - the cost of that cup of coffee.

Agree again. I cant understand the mentality of it at all. We need incentives to get things moving in a positive way but all to often we do the opposite. I dont think it can last much longer without more casualties and DCN is one area that cant take much more - the cost of a coffee (tea)

martinn123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

You're telling me! Just spent a brief time in Switzerland and it's cheaper than here.. and over the border in Germany, it's cheaper again.

Why, when our lovely country is so broke, and when each of us have so little money to spend, are costs so high? Oh but wait, high charges to pay for each other's, and the country's, debt. How long is that going to last - a recession within a recession, a downward spiral.

It's symbolic - the cost of that cup of coffee.

Not sure what part of Switzerland you were in, but I can state its not cheaper.
I have a son in Basle, and have visited him on a few occasions.
They pay little income tax there, its all direct taxation so a pint is E8, and a simlpe meal, say pizza, with a glass of wine over E20 each, I don't drink coffee but I know its a lot more than here.

Germany is cheaper, as Basle is on the border, my son travels across to do any major shopping, and he can claim back the VAT at the border as he is leaving the EU.

But back to Malahide, I can see Leo's point, but Avoca is upmarket, so if you don't like the price, move on.
Just because its in a public park makes no difference, it's a business with overheads.

Dizzyblonde

I'm looking forward to a trip to the Avoca coffee shop in Malahide castle because I love their cakes etc, but it's not something I'd do all that often. And its not somewhere I'd have brought my kids when they were young. It is very upmarket and because Avoca are so popular I'd say they'll do very well.

I have a question about the castle tour - is it a proper guided tour again? We first did the tour a long time ago and it was with a guide, but afterwards they changed it to a "push the button and listen to the speaker" tour which just isn't the same and you certainly wouldn't pay the price they're charging nowadays for it.

Mr.Wemmick

martinn123 wrote: »

Not sure what part of Switzerland you were in, but I can state its not cheaper.
I have a son in Basle, and have visited him on a few occasions.
They pay little income tax there, its all direct taxation so a pint is E8, and a simlpe meal, say pizza, with a glass of wine over E20 each, I don't drink coffee but I know its a lot more than here.

Germany is cheaper, as Basle is on the border, my son travels across to do any major shopping, and he can claim back the VAT at the border as he is leaving the EU.

But back to Malahide, I can see Leo's point, but Avoca is upmarket, so if you don't like the price, move on.
Just because its in a public park makes no difference, it's a business with overheads.

Lived in Zürich for many years, travel back now and then.. have friends and family there. It's cheaper: rubbish collection, cup of coffee, breakfast.. many services, complete cover with health insurance, of course you can go and eat and drink coffee in very expensive places in the top end of town and pay the huge prices. But if you want to do Switzerland on the cheap, you can. I know I have done it for years.. in Ireland, with a family, unless you stay indoors and cook everything yourself, it's hard to eat out, have a coffee, do whatever cheaply.. you need to plan and budget for it.

martinn123

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Lived in Zürich for many years, travel back now and then.. have friends and family there. It's cheaper: rubbish collection, cup of coffee, breakfast.. many services, complete cover with health insurance, of course you can go and eat and drink coffee in very expensive places in the top end of town and pay the huge prices. But if you want to do Switzerland on the cheap, you can. I know I have done it for years.. in Ireland, with a family, unless you stay indoors and cook everything yourself, it's hard to eat out, have a coffee, do whatever cheaply.. you need to plan and budget for it.

Well,

My wife says I am grumpy,

My '' Female Friend'' says I am putting on weight.

But my Broker says I should move to Zurich

Maybe they are all right.

The Hill Billy

And we are done here...
Nothing new is being added to the discussion.

tHB