NQT/Union protest debacle

evolving_doors

Maybe I missed the reaction on this forum but did anyone see the sham protest today?

Yet again the public think all teachers are starting off on 32K.. Thanks a bunch Unions.
All the vox pop interviews in the news were about pay parity rather than actual full hours parity. Just take a look over on AH forum for the teacher bashing (if you dare!!! it's a bloodbath even by AH standards).

Thanks for the token gesture anyway ASTI.. we knew you'd be there to row in behind the profession...only thing is your ABOUT 3 YEARS TO LATE!!!

The ladder has well and truly been pulled up, the best thing the ASTI could do now is just jump on the compost heap and slowly decompose...

At least there's the Teaching Council to fight our corner for the 'profession'

rant over...

We could at least launch a major offensive on the AH forum and respond to every insane comment though...anyone game?

delta_bravo

Ive tried a few retorts but facts get in the way of a good story. The into Rep was well grilled by dobbo on sixone about loading all the cuts on new entrants. She didn't do well.

Lord TSC

Didn't even hear about the protest until I saw it in the papers yesterday. Wish it had been slightly more publicized....

evolving_doors

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Didn't even hear about the protest until I saw it in the papers yesterday. Wish it had been slightly more publicized....

I suppose the protest was meant for nqt' s only... Given that the profession is well and truly split now...

chippers

What on earth were they doing mentioning the 32k?! From an outside perspective it sounds a decent salary and not one to be complaining about. The likelihood of a qualified teacher actually starting on 32k a year is so small! Are they trying to get support from the people or turn people against us?

Lord TSC

Trying to argue this on AH is a joke, since everyone is coming in going "The starting salary is 32k, you're spoiled rotten if you're protesting bout that".

I find it ironic that the movement which was obviously designed to try and win back some support from NQTs for the unions has only served to grow the resentment towards teachers and make it harder for us to argue our stances....

rainbowtrout

I have no time for teachers that go and speak to the media at these protests and the only line they are able to trot out is 'we start on 32k' For people that have 4-5 years of third level education, they have very little cop on.


They do themselves or other teachers no favours in the eyes of the public and you get an AH style reaction.


Does it even occur to any of them to mention that of the jobs that exist, few are full time jobs, the majority are half hours or less and the reality for people on those hours is a wage of <16k. Signing on for a couple of days a week is not possible because hours are normally spread right across the whole week.

90% of the time I cringe when I see one of these people talking to the reporters.

Interestingly it was the lead story on the 6-1 news last night. I didn't think it would be considered so important as to be the first item on the news.

TheDriver

I concur trout, I found their arguments to sound petty, and especially as SUs seemed to take over the protest i.e. protesting about jobs they don't yet have. I thought it gave fuel to the fire.
Personally I would never talk to the media about any of these issues because they will always report it poorly and biased.

Terri26

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Didn't even hear about the protest until I saw it in the papers yesterday. Wish it had been slightly more publicized....

It was on the front page of the ASTI website, it was on the sideline of the ASTI website, it was e:mailed to people on the database, it was e:mailed by branch secretaries, its was e:mailed and a poster sent to shop stewards in every school who were supposed to put it up on the noticeboard, We were also asked on the website to print out either a colour or black and white version of the poster for our staffrooms.
I personally feel it was a step in the right direction but like other posters have said need to get the real actual take home pay of teachers but nqts and older members

rainbowtrout

Terri26 wrote: »

It was on the front page of the ASTI website, it was on the sideline of the ASTI website, it was e:mailed to people on the database, it was e:mailed by branch secretaries, its was e:mailed and a poster sent to shop stewards in every school who were supposed to put it up on the noticeboard, We were also asked on the website to print out either a colour or black and white version of the poster for our staffrooms.
I personally feel it was a step in the right direction but like other posters have said need to get the real actual take home pay of teachers but nqts and older members

The only reason I heard about it was because it was on the news. I'm not ASTI but we have both unions in my school and I didn't hear a word about it.

As for having on the website, that's grand but how many union members look at the website regularly? I'd say most of the staff I work with don't look at their union website from one end of the year til the next unless they have a grievance and want to check out their rights.

Would agree with TheDriver about student unions taking over. Their protest is completely pointless. They are protesting about the potential pay of graduates who have yet to gain employment in teaching. It just doesn't work. They could make that protest about any area of employment.

Graduate employment conditions are not a student union issue.

Lord TSC

Terri26 wrote: »

It was on the front page of the ASTI website, it was on the sideline of the ASTI website, it was e:mailed to people on the database, it was e:mailed by branch secretaries, its was e:mailed and a poster sent to shop stewards in every school who were supposed to put it up on the noticeboard, We were also asked on the website to print out either a colour or black and white version of the poster for our staffrooms.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The only reason I heard about it was because it was on the news. I'm not ASTI but we have both unions in my school and I didn't hear a word about it.

As for having on the website, that's grand but how many union members look at the website regularly? I'd say most of the staff I work with don't look at their union website from one end of the year til the next unless they have a grievance and want to check out their rights.

To add to that, the posters in the school aren't much good to the likes of me who are unemployed and not getting near a school, let alone into the staffroom and the union message boards. I know I'm talking from personal experience here, but I'd have thought that if such a protest was taking place to raise awareness about the conditions of newly qualified teachers, it would have been a good idea to try to get the unemployed teachers on board; after all, we're the ones who would not miss a second of work to walk the streets if unnecessary...

Seanchai

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Does it even occur to any of them to mention that of the jobs that exist, few are full time jobs, the majority are half hours or less and the reality for people on those hours is a wage of <16k. Signing on for a couple of days a week is not possible because hours are normally spread right across the whole week.

Very good observation. This precise point - the partimism (my neologism) of the teaching profession should be screamed from the rooftops. The teaching profession is turning into a joke, like the demoralising, dehumanising stories I've read from John Coolahan about the status of teachers in Ireland prior to independence. To my mind, every single person who enters a teaching career has a right to make a living out of it fulltime. Addressing this problem can start with attacking the supply, namely the Irish state's refusal to put sanctions on the universities who are running these very lucrative teacher training courses for positions where there is an oversupply of teachers. That's just a start.

Oh, and did anybody read Seán Flynn's extraordinarily ignorant and uninformed article this week about what teacher's starting salary was in 2009 and what their starting salary is in 2012, here?

'In 2009, new entrants to the profession earned about €41,000. But a raft of budget and other cuts has cut the starting salary to €32,000. The cuts have already been imposed on at least 3,000 teachers. Two thousand more – due to graduate from teacher training college next year – also face this cut.'

I am absolutely certain the 2009 figure is ridiculously incorrect. What is the real 2012 starting salary?

rainbowtrout

Seanchai wrote: »

To my mind, every single person who enters a teaching career has a right to make a living out of it fulltime. Addressing this problem can start with attacking the supply, namely the Irish state's refusal to put sanctions on the universities who are running these very lucrative teacher training courses for positions where there is an oversupply of teachers. That's just a start.

Oh, and did anybody read Seán Flynn's extraordinarily ignorant and uninformed article this week about what teacher's starting salary was in 2009 and what their starting salary is in 2012, here?

'In 2009, new entrants to the profession earned about €41,000. But a raft of budget and other cuts has cut the starting salary to €32,000. The cuts have already been imposed on at least 3,000 teachers. Two thousand more – due to graduate from teacher training college next year – also face this cut.'

I am absolutely certain the 2009 figure is ridiculously incorrect. What is the real 2012 starting salary?

You know, I wouldn't have half as much a problem with the lack of jobs and the oversupply ( I know this is easy for me to say being permanent), if the jobs that existed were full hours or close to that, i.e. 18+. If teaching was similar to another profession where it was hard to get a job in that area on graduation because there weren't many openings but once you got one you were guaranteed full hours, I don't think there would be as many problems. Possibly still an oversupply of graduates but they would know that jobs were hard to come by.

As it is, those applying for the PDE think they'll get a job, many are accepted on the oversubscribed courses with a poor subject combination/one subject only/CSPE as a second subject and realistically have poor job prospects from the outset. This also needs to be addressed in a big way.


As for the figures quoted. Things have changed again Seanchai. I learned on a thread a couple of weeks ago that those entering teaching from 2012 onwards don't get allowances but will start on Point 3 of the new scale which is 32k I assume. Those who started in 2011 start on Point 1 of new scale but have allowance up to value of degree allowance. Those starting in the 6 week window from December 2010- Jan 2011 start on new scale with old allowances.


So the article isn't all that inaccurate, but no more than the protesters a couple of days ago or the unions quoted in the article, he is failing to mention that while the starting salary was good 3 years ago and the starting salary isn't bad compared to the starting salary in other professions currently, it is nigh on impossible to get a job on full hours, that's the real crux of the problem, something the unions aren't addressing either.

I think the paycut (10%, pension levy etc) came in the emergency budget in April 2009, so as of January that year the starting salary was probably still 41k