€4 million to Uganda?

Atlantic Dawn

Any country which has little or no civil rights for its people and believes in witchcraft and other bo11ixoligy shouldn't get one cent of our money, same goes for any country that has the money to blow on nuclear weapons. Most of the countries of Africa are the same now or even worse than they were 20 years ago, they just don't learn with our current system of handouts to muppet governments and dictatorships.

Itwasntme.

I only skimmed through the posts so forgive me if I am repeating anything that's already been said.

The government of Uganda is very corrupt, that much is true, so that 4 million euro may very well have been channelled into the private coffers of a select elite but we don't have all the facts.

What bothers me about the OP is that it paints Ireland as a victim. Please take the time to research Ireland's foreign policy with regards to the African countries (the recent Ireland-Africa strategy would be a good place to start) with which it has bilateral relations. The Irish government may have originally been in this for 'altruistic' reasons but I doubt very much that that is the case anymore. It's not as simple as the Irish government being oh-so-benevolent at the expense of the Irish tax payer. And while you're there, you may as well look into what some of the Irish companies like Tullow oil are doing in those countries and how Ireland benefits from maintaining the status quo.

Victor

The reality is that a there are a lot of people a lot worse off than us.

A friend is an auditor. A few years ago he spent about a month in 3(?) African countries doing audits - pick random projects and see if they have been completed. All Irish Aid funding is dependent on previously funded projects being completed.

zenno

This AID money is not going to the poorest in these countries, looks like the they are trying to fix this mess.

Justine Greening has called for a major shake-up in the EU aid budget – as it emerged more than half the cash is squandered on relatively rich countries.

The International Development Secretary challenged the basis of the £10billion-a-year budget, which channels cash to countries such as Turkey, Iceland and Brazil.

She is pressing for a major shift in policy to target resources at the poorest countries.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218107/Stop-sending-aid-money-rich-countries-Cabinet-minister-Justine-Greening-tells-European-Union.html

eyescreamcone

Victor wrote: »

The reality is that a there are a lot of people a lot worse off than us.

A friend is an auditor. A few years ago he spent about a month in 3(?) African countries doing audits - pick random projects and see if they have been completed. All Irish Aid funding is dependent on previously funded projects being completed.

So what
It's time for these places to start looking after themselves.
Give them nothing - we have our own problems here.
Just pull the plug on them.
Try begging elsewhere

Hootanany

How much do we pay in foreign aid and why?

bootybouncer

Victor wrote: »

The reality is that a there are a lot of people a lot worse off than us.

A friend is an auditor. A few years ago he spent about a month in 3(?) African countries doing audits - pick random projects and see if they have been completed. All Irish Aid funding is dependent on previously funded projects being completed.

did he bang the hole off any Ugandan broads????

Chinasea

Haven't we just been begging for the last, 2, 5, 10, 20, 500 years?

zenno

Chinasea wrote: »

Haven't we just been begging for the last, 2, 5, 10, 20, 500 years?

But we are paying it back with high interest. It wasn't begging, it was a loan.

eyescreamcone

Population of Ethiopia in the mid 80s, when Bob Geldof was collecting for them...30 million

Their present population ...90 million.

Their having a laugh
Give them nothing

zenno

spambot is gone.

bootybouncer

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Population of Ethiopia in the mid 80s, when Bob Geldof was collecting for them...30 million

Their present population ...90 million.

Their having a laugh
Give them nothing

I agree......................... and oul bob needs to keep an eye on what his oul daughter is up to....................... oul both chambers are in action i believe....................wait until liam neeson unleashes the 12 incher on her

Nodin

Show Time wrote: »

So are you accusing me of being a racist???


Be careful now where you go with this one.

Ooooo, threats.

Your statement is certainly xenophobic.

barney4001

Could this money not have been shared among SVDP or other such home charities

telecaster

I wonder if boards.de has similar threads where irate Germans complain that a basket case island on the arse end of Europe keeps getting funded by them.

barney4001

zenno wrote: »

This AID money is not going to the poorest in these countries, looks like the they are trying to fix this mess.

Justine Greening has called for a major shake-up in the EU aid budget – as it emerged more than half the cash is squandered on relatively rich countries.

The International Development Secretary challenged the basis of the £10billion-a-year budget, which channels cash to countries such as Turkey, Iceland and Brazil.

She is pressing for a major shift in policy to target resources at the poorest countries.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218107/Stop-sending-aid-money-rich-countries-Cabinet-minister-Justine-Greening-tells-European-Union.html

Is Ireland not one of the poorer countries now?? with the rogues and scoundrels we have in lienster house no wonder

Nodin

telecaster wrote: »

I wonder if boards.de has similar threads where irate Germans complain that a basket case island on the arse end of Europe keeps getting funded by them.

'they come over here, drink our beer, eat strange battered foods and puke on our streets...and we're still paying for them and their spud fueled lifestyle over there'

charlemont

Our money shouldn't be going to any country that treats gays in the manner Uganda does..

mikemac1

Member of the Commonweath, lets the members sort them out

If they are looking for aid from Europe the old colonial powers can look into it

Did Ireland take their resources, sell them weapons or install leaders.

All they ever got was missionaries, we owe them nothing but the Brits might

telecaster

charlemont wrote: »

Our money shouldn't be going to any country that treats gays in the manner Uganda does..

Maybe the money is being spent on campaigns to destigmatize homosexuality and to educate on how sexuality can be manifested in many healthy ways?

Funding a developing country is not an endorsement of its current situation, political ethos, society, media or religion.

telecaster

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Population of Ethiopia in the mid 80s, when Bob Geldof was collecting for them...30 million

Their present population ...90 million.

Their having a laugh
Give them nothing

Maybe less of them are starving to death?

charlemont

telecaster wrote: »

Maybe the money is being spent on campaigns to destigmatize homosexuality and to educate on how sexuality can be manifested in many healthy ways?

Funding a developing country is not an endorsement of its current situation, political ethos, society, media or religion.

Like the aid Uganda received from Evangelical nut jobs.

Victor

barney4001 wrote: »

Is Ireland not one of the poorer countries now?? with the rogues and scoundrels we have in lienster house no wonder

Wrong. Ireland is in the top 20 richest countries in the world, by income.

Estimates of Irish GDP per capita is Intl.$ 38,532-41,543 (2010-2011)

For Uganda it is Intl.$ 1,300-1,385 (2010-2011).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

vicwatson

tommyboy2222 wrote: »

No it's ok!!.

It was put into the Prince of Ugandas account. He'll clear this up!

I got an e-mail off him last week looking for my bank account details saying he need to transfer €4,000,000.00 to my account as a temporary measure.....

lightspeed

Itwasntme. wrote: »

I only skimmed through the posts so forgive me if I am repeating anything that's already been said.

The government of Uganda is very corrupt, that much is true, so that 4 million euro may very well have been channelled into the private coffers of a select elite but we don't have all the facts.

What bothers me about the OP is that it paints Ireland as a victim. Please take the time to research Ireland's foreign policy with regards to the African countries (the recent Ireland-Africa strategy would be a good place to start) with which it has bilateral relations. The Irish government may have originally been in this for 'altruistic' reasons but I doubt very much that that is the case anymore. It's not as simple as the Irish government being oh-so-benevolent at the expense of the Irish tax payer. And while you're there, you may as well look into what some of the Irish companies like Tullow oil are doing in those countries and how Ireland benefits from maintaining the status quo.

By all means please educate me as to how irish companies investing in Africa, is benefiting the irish tax payer when we are spending millions housing refugees and then donating millions at the same time.

What has the return on investment been like for the irish taxpayer under the current system?

For some odd and illogical reason you seem to doubt the stupidity of our government?

The new crowd seem exactly the same as the last so i feel your faith may well be misplaced.

All i see is business as usual. Corruption by the corrupt elite at the cost of the irish taxpayer.

I cant imagine why anybody in Ireland would take issue with bailing out our banks and yet take no issue that we bail out and facilitate corrupt dictatorships across the developing world.

dodderangler

vicwatson wrote: »

I got an e-mail off him last week looking for my bank account details saying he need to transfer €4,000,000.00 to my account as a temporary measure.....

Take it
What's the worst that can happen :P

lightspeed

Nodin wrote: »

You'll find that handing over money to fix complex problems will not result in an instant fix.

Generally speaking, money goes to projects in those countries, not the state.

Sorry, Instant fix me hole
We have been giving money to Uganda alone for the past 20 years. It really is quite funny that when people look at the Austerity programme in Ireland and Greece for example,the idea is well they have to just balance the books and pay the money they owe back. If they don't, no one is going to loan them anymore money. I accept that this is a logical argument to make. However, in the case of Africa, these countries are simply just given money with the country footing the bill fully aware that not only is it a donation and not a loan but that the corruption within these countries is widespread.

On that note, does anybody know how much money Germany gives in charitable donations (Not loans like we got).

So after 20 years, educate me as to the difference it has made?
Do they now require less aid than 20 years ago? Are they more sustainable?
Is their less conflict and more tolerance towards each others religions and beliefs?
Is there a better education system with less corrupt police, politicians and officials?

Annasopra

charlemont wrote: »

Our money shouldn't be going to any country that treats gays in the manner Uganda does..

I'm not really sure if I agree with that. Scott Long has made a very good argument against it

http://paper-bird.net/2012/06/26/resources-for-the-unbelievers-on-aid-conditionality-and-lgbt-rights/

Nodin

lightspeed wrote: »

Sorry, Instant fix me hole
We have been giving money to Uganda alone for the past 20 years. It really is quite funny that when people look at the Austerity programme in Ireland and Greece for example,the idea is well they have to just balance the books and pay the money they owe back. If they don't, no one is going to loan them anymore money. I accept that this is a logical argument to make. However, in the case of Africa, these countries are simply just given money with the country footing the bill fully aware that not only is it a donation and not a loan but that the corruption within these countries is widespread.

Sweeping generalisations, oversimplifications.....How long did it take to sort out the land problem alone here?

lightspeed wrote: »

On that note, does anybody know how much money Germany gives in charitable donations (Not loans like we got)..

Has your google broke?

Nodin

lightspeed wrote: »

By all means please educate me as to how irish companies investing in Africa, is benefiting the irish tax payer when we are spending millions housing refugees and then donating millions at the same time.

.......

It's not an either/or equation.

Hootanany

Hootanany wrote: »

How much do we pay in foreign aid and why?

Bump

lightspeed

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20120625-43361.html

Anybody interested in how much is actually been given by Eu countries to Africa should realy have a read of the above.

If you scroll to the end you will see the following
"The report praises countries like Ireland, which despite serious economic woes, is committed to meeting its foreign aid pledges.".

Its interesting that Germany although they are given a sizable amount, have only actually donated around havlf of what they were supposed to donate in foreign aid.

If the german tax payer is sick of giving loans of money to Ireland and Spain,I wonder how they feel about our generous nature when it comes to foreign aid?

Hootanany

Stop it right now

lightspeed

Nodin wrote: »

Sweeping generalisations, oversimplifications.....How long did it take to sort out the land problem alone

So i take it that means that the correct answer is too inconvenient for you to acknowledge.

Are things better or worse?
If you are going to make the argument that the biilions that has already been pumped into many of these African countries has made things better, please provide examples and evidence to back up your claim.
How long does it take to sort out the corruption problem?

We have been giving money to Uganda and other corrupt governments for over 20 years and things are still corrupt. I reckon most Irish tax payers would be of the opinion that the deadline has passed.

Do you think we should continue to give millions of euro for another 20 years or more to African countries and cross our fingers that it will actually go to poor people while the irish people continue to suffer and struggle?

What makes you think that the above is the democratic will of the peopleof Ireland?

Why do we have a mickey mouse referndum supposedly for childrens rights in this country and yet the irish people have never been given the oppurtunity by referendum to decide if Irish tax payers money should be donated overseas?

dark crystal

lightspeed wrote: »

So after 20 years, educate me as to the difference it has made?
Do they now require less aid than 20 years ago? Are they more sustainable?
Is their less conflict and more tolerance towards each others religions and beliefs?
Is there a better education system with less corrupt police, politicians and officials?

I'd like to know this too. In real terms, how has the aid given to these countries actually helped it's (poorest) people and what changes have these countries made in terms of social progression, inclusion, law and order, corruption and equality.

Also, who oversees how this aid is utilised?

vicwatson

dodderangler wrote: »

Take it
What's the worst that can happen :P

Oh of course I gave him my bank account details

Nodin

lightspeed wrote: »

So i take it that means that the correct answer is too inconvenient for you to acknowledge.

..........

No, it means that your short term thinking is beset with oversimplications and generalisations......
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0719/Africa-s-compelling-progress-toward-peace-and-prosperity

Japer

lightspeed wrote: »

If the german tax payer is sick of giving loans of money to Ireland and Spain,I wonder how they feel about our generous nature when it comes to foreign aid?

They expect us to pay them back interest on the money we fritt away on overseas dictators each year.
For every year we give €600 million to fund corruption and arms programmes in the third world, this second world country will be paying back €1200 or 1500 million by our children / grandchildren in years to come.

I agree with the poster who wrote wondering why
"do we have a mickey mouse referndum supposedly for childrens rights in this country and yet the irish people have never been given the oppurtunity by referendum to decide if Irish tax payers money should be donated overseas? "

Show Time

The entire Continent of Africa is a money black hole to the rest of the world.

Best to let them all either learn how to farm or mine the land and if the natives are to lazy or stupid to even manage that than let them all die off and repopulate the lands with folks who are willing to do some work.

Japer

our population cannot support the worlds poor anyway. We have a population of 4 million odd ( the majority of whom are old / young / unemployed /struggling with negative equity or students ) and the population of the country of Indonesia alone is over 100 million.

Nodin

Show Time wrote: »

The entire Continent of Africa is a money black hole to the rest of the world.

Best to let them all either learn how to farm or mine the land and if the natives are to lazy or stupid to even manage that than let them all die off and repopulate the lands with folks who are willing to do some work.

No, no racism there......

uch

Ladies and Boy's, my brother lived in Uganda for 10 years and he said the only thing wrong with Uganda is that Ugandans are running the country

Capt'n Midnight

lightspeed wrote: »

After 20 years and things are just as corrupt as ever. I dont understand it, we take in refugees to this country from places like Uganda, foot the bill for housing and welfare, and then we also give millions of euro to the Ugandan government as well?

20 years ?

20 years ago the Rwandan civil war was creating tensions which lead to the genocide and then spilled over in to the even worse Congo wars involving Uganda.

So perhaps 6 million dead by the time it quietened down nearly 10 years ago.

A lot has changed since then.


www.irishaid.gov.ie/uganda.html

Since 1986, Uganda has transformed from a nearly failed state to a country that has achieved consistently high economic growth rates. Uganda’s GDP is currently approximately 5%, significantly higher than the 3.3% recorded for the Sub-Saharan region. Poverty levels declined significantly from 56% in 1992 to 31% in 2005.

There have also been steady improvements in health (immunisation has increased from 63% in 2002 to 89% in 200%) and education (84% of children are now enrolled in schools)

Yeah it's corrupt over there, but it's not as if we are just handing the government a bag of money to spend how they like. Look at the amounts siphoned off by politicians and their cohorts here over during the boom. How many stories have we heard about brown envelopes , and how many stories did we not hear about ?

Yes the corruption is a matter of degree and the work ethic , but the big difference is that millions haven't died in recent years.

Capt'n Midnight

Originally Posted by lightspeed View Post
By all means please educate me as to how irish companies investing in Africa, is benefiting the irish tax payer when we are spending millions housing refugees and then donating millions at the same time.

From a few years ago about one boat from Killybegs. In one single expedition the Atlantic Dawn catches the same as what 7000 traditional fishermen would catch in a whole year. A lot of ex fishermen from Mauritania have become economic migrants and headed to Europe.

Just in case anyone was wondering if we were some how instrumental in creating the refugee/migrant problems.

mikemac1

Spanish trawlers do the same to us

bootybouncer

its in the sun it must be true

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4610342/Familys-4million-benefits-plot-spanned-18-years.html

gobnaitolunacy

Borrowing money to give it away again, makes loads of sense.

jaja321

Show Time wrote: »

The entire Continent of Africa is a money black hole to the rest of the world.

Best to let them all either learn how to farm or mine the land and if the natives are to lazy or stupid to even manage that than let them all die off and repopulate the lands with folks who are willing to do some work.

Wow.

SWL

telecaster wrote: »

I wonder if boards.de has similar threads where irate Germans complain that a basket case island on the arse end of Europe keeps getting funded by them.

Your knowledge of your Country’s present economic difficulties are embarrassingto read, you really should educate yourself on how Ireland is paying; it seems happily,the unsecured debts and Germanys/EU role in that transfer of wealth.

But that won't make you seem enlightened about the ways of the world, iffact if you want to get outraged start with the fact Irish citizens are noweconomic salves to a system not of their making.

Irelands is in this state because it has too many people like you livinghere.

Annasopra

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

20 years ?

20 years ago the Rwandan civil war was creating tensions which lead to the genocide and then spilled over in to the even worse Congo wars involving Uganda.

So perhaps 6 million dead by the time it quietened down nearly 10 years ago.

A lot has changed since then.


www.irishaid.gov.ie/uganda.html





Yeah it's corrupt over there, but it's not as if we are just handing the government a bag of money to spend how they like. Look at the amounts siphoned off by politicians and their cohorts here over during the boom. How many stories have we heard about brown envelopes , and how many stories did we not hear about ?

Yes the corruption is a matter of degree and the work ethic , but the big difference is that millions haven't died in recent years.

At last. Someone with understanding, knowledge and awareness.