Splitting South eastern hospitals

road_high

Well you hardly think the KK people and it's readers would be overjoyed with the threat that A&E services would end at St. Lukes and be centralised in WRH? I mean get real.

Deise Vu

mfitzy wrote: »

Well you hardly think the KK people and it's readers would be overjoyed with the threat that A&E services would end at St. Lukes and be centralised in WRH? I mean get real.

The Kilkenney People article just makes some vague reference to" reduction in services in Kilkenny to the benefit of WRH." A hospital without A&E is pointless in my view. Removing A&E at WRH is probably the only thing that would get out on the street protesting. So can you confirm there was actually a proposal to remove A&E from St. Lukes and patients would be obliged to go to Waterford? People in Kilkenny would be more than justified in waving bye bye to WRH if that is the case.

Dunmoreroader

Precisely. Just as I feared, it's a case of lets discommode at least half the population of our own county, not to mention the knock on effects for the rest of the region but crumbs from Dublin are more palatable than anything from Waterford.
If we could leave county allegiances aside for just 1 second; wouldn't it be better to have a 1st class major acute regional teaching hospital 1/2 hour away, within the region, rather than having to travel to Dublin for specialties? And if you believe that WRH doesn't fit that category, wouldn't the logical response be to want it to be resourced to that standard on the basis that the 1/2M people of the southeast are not 2nd class citizens, rather than shrug your shoulders and say I'd always pick a Dublin hospital given the choice over WRH?
Like I said, cutting off your nose to spite your face.

comeraghs

I know that some people in Kilkenny have no issue with travelling an extra half an hour to Dublin, but for some, especially elderly people, getting through Dublin by car is a nightmare, especially compared to Waterford where with the by-pass you don't need to enter the city at all.

I have elderly relatives in Hugginstown & honest to god forcing them to go to Dublin for care as one did in the past is just cruel.

Please support keeping WRH as a regional centre, It is in Kilkenny's best interests.

redtelephone

The KK People piece says that St. Luke's would be grouped with Naas and Portlaoise hospitals if thie plan were to go ahead. Surely in that scenario people from Carlow and north Kilkenny would gravitate towards Dublin via Naas hospital rather than via Kilkenny. Naas is not much further from Carlow than Kilkenny is, and you'd be going towards Dublin, not away from it if you needed specialised care. As a result might not the catchment area for St Luke's be reduced? IMO the whole argument seems just just silly and childish but it could lead to problems down the road, and not just for WRH.

road_high

redtelephone wrote: »

The KK People piece says that St. Luke's would be grouped with Naas and Portlaoise hospitals if thie plan were to go ahead. Surely in that scenario people from Carlow and north Kilkenny would gravitate towards Dublin via Naas hospital rather than via Kilkenny. Naas is not much further from Carlow than Kilkenny is, and you'd be going towards Dublin, not away from it if you needed specialised care. As a result might not the catchment area for St Luke's be reduced? IMO the whole argument seems just just silly and childish but it could lead to problems down the road, and not just for WRH.

What problems down the road vs staying with Wexford/WRH?

redtelephone

The plan has the potential to weaken the hospital infrastructure in the south east because if Waterford is eventually downgraded by being aligned with Cork, Wexford will have to choose between being aligned with Dublin or Cork. There are 145,000 people in Wexford county. As I said, there would be a danger of St Luke's losing patients and specialists, with most of the serious cases being moved to Dublin for treatment. This might eventually lead to loss of services here.
The two hospitals mentioned St James's and St Vincent's, are both inside the M50. It can regularly take an hour to get from Newlands Cross to St. Vincent's. As the KK People piece says, medical card holders will find it difficult to access specialist care in Dublin because of transport issues. I wonder would the Dublin hospitals even have the extra capacity to cater for up to 250,000 additional patients.

Dunmoreroader

mfitzy, how does this sit with your contention about standards at WRH?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0226/health.html

road_high

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

mfitzy, how does this sit with your contention about standards at WRH?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0226/health.html

I never even mentioned standards at WRH; look back at my posts. That was somebody else.
But seen as you adressed me regardless, putting up some survey from 3 years ago is hardly all that relevant to the hear and now.

My hunch is this is going to happen. St. Lukes Kilkenny is going to be linked to Dublin, like it or not.

Dunmoreroader

You assume standards are better in Dublin by default - that's what I was addressing.
If it is a done deal about St. Luke's, I would say fine leave them off except the knock on effects re potential WRH downgrade far outweigh the benefits for everyone in the Southeast as puddie has already outlined and, yes, that still includes Kilkenny.
It would be ironic if the SEHB / HSE Southeast region was sundered from the home of its HQ, would it not?
It would also be an abomination.
Let's hope it is not a done deal.

Deise Vu

mfitzy wrote: »

I never even mentioned standards at WRH; look back at my posts. That was somebody else.
But seen as you adressed me regardless, putting up some survey from 3 years ago is hardly all that relevant to the hear and now.

My hunch is this is going to happen. St. Lukes Kilkenny is going to be linked to Dublin, like it or not.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about St Lukes A&E being closed down, so I repeat, if there was a plan to close down St Lukes A&E as you have claimed, St Lukes would be right to take the Dublin option.

If, as I suspect, this is not the case then the population of Kilkenny needs to have a really serious think about this potential breakup. The only reason a Cork doctor is advocating for this split is so more resources will go to his Cork hospital and they won't experience any cuts because they will all be made in the South East. That is the reality of how Irish society works and if you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.

road_high

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

You assume standards are better in Dublin by default - that's what I was addressing.
If it is a done deal about St. Luke's, I would say fine leave them off except the knock on effects re potential WRH downgrade far outweigh the benefits for everyone in the Southeast as puddie has already outlined and, yes, that still includes Kilkenny.
It would be ironic if the SEHB / HSE Southeast region was sundered from the home of its HQ, would it not?
It would also be an abomination.
Let's hope it is not a done deal.

Has that not already happened? I.e. HSE South HQ is in Cork.

I'd much rather be treated in a big hospital with huge throughput and expertise is what I'm saying. Some people would prefer a smaller hospital closer to home, that's their persoanl choice. It wouldn't be mine. Except for A&E which is critical service.

road_high

Deise Vu wrote: »

I noticed you didn't answer my question about St Lukes A&E being closed down, so I repeat, if there was a plan to close down St Lukes A&E as you have claimed, St Lukes would be right to take the Dublin option.

If, as I suspect, this is not the case then the population of Kilkenny needs to have a really serious think about this potential breakup. The only reason a Cork doctor is advocating for this split is so more resources will go to his Cork hospital and they won't experience any cuts because they will all be made in the South East. That is the reality of how Irish society works and if you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.

It was mooted early 2011. And before you say it was just speculation, it was very same as the rumours/talk about WRH.
Wexford, Clonmel and St. Lukes services for A&E were to be centralised in WRH.

Deise Vu

mfitzy wrote: »

It was mooted early 2011. And before you say it was just speculation, it was very same as the rumours/talk about WRH.
Wexford, Clonmel and St. Lukes services for A&E were to be centralised in WRH.

Mooted by whom?

road_high

Deise Vu wrote: »

Mooted by whom?

Hospital management and local TD's/politicians. I doubt they were making it up.

Deise Vu

mfitzy wrote: »

Hospital management and local TD's/politicians. I doubt they were making it up.

There would be an immediate outcry. Did any of this even reach the local newspapers? Even a rumour like this would have people out with pitchforks and torches.

road_high

Deise Vu wrote: »

There would be an immediate outcry. Did any of this even reach the local newspapers? Even a rumour like this would have people out with pitchforks and torches.

There was. It was late 2010/early 2011. Then the new govt got in and it died down as €13 million was allocated for new A&E facility at St. Lukes. It was definitely in the KK People.

redtelephone

mfitzy wrote: »

There was. It was late 2010/early 2011. Then the new govt got in and it died down as €13 million was allocated for new A&E facility at St. Lukes. It was definitely in the KK People.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/secret-plan-to-downgrade-st-luke-s-1-2170946

Finnbar01

I can see consultants along with their support staff moving to Cork or Dublin hospitals if this plan goes ahead.

Deise Vu

redtelephone wrote: »

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/secret-plan-to-downgrade-st-luke-s-1-2170946

I have no idea what a 'hot laboratory' is but there is absolutely no mention of A&E here. The source of this 'story' is a completely unbiased FF TD quoting a 'secret' plan'. And you are willing to become the hind teat of a Dublin Hospital's budget on the strength of that?

There really is no hope for us in the South East.

redtelephone

Deise Vu wrote: »

There really is no hope for us in the South East.

Sadly that's true the region seems to be tearing itself apart. As I said before its childish but the old prejudices seem to always win out.

Deise Vu

redtelephone wrote: »

Sadly that's true the region seems to be tearing itself apart. As I said before its childish but the old prejudices seem to always win out.

Lowest per capita income per region, lowest 3rd level qualifications, no decent airport, no university, no IDA office, no hope. And now they want to move the hospoitals to Dublin and Cork as well?

It's like the opposite of Pol Pot. We are driving everyone out of the regions into the capital. I wonder could the Dead Kennedys do a good song for us?

Dunmoreroader

PRINT THIS OFF AND STICK IT ON YOUR CAR!

fuzzy dunlop

Deise Vu wrote: »

I have no idea what a 'hot laboratory' is but there is absolutely no mention of A&E here. The source of this 'story' is a completely unbiased FF TD quoting a 'secret' plan'. And you are willing to become the hind teat of a Dublin Hospital's budget on the strength of that?

There really is no hope for us in the South East.

This is the nub of it. For at least 25000 Kilkenny people WRH is closer than St. Lukes by far and therfore WRH is "their hospital". This is a conservitave estimate as it only includes the electoral area next to Waterford. When you include the people living in the Southern half of the other electoral areas i.e Callan and Thomastown then almost half the county's population is either closer to WRH or equidistant between St Lukes and WRH. It is time to put grievences aside here and realise that a downgrade of WRH for the disaster it is. Any dividend by a tenuous link between St Lukes and a Dublin Hospital will only benefit about half the county of Kilkenny if it is a benefit at all. Also the idea that Dublin is only an extra 30 minutes away from Kilkenny than Waterford is patently untrue. At any time of day except late at night it takes an hour to get from say somewhere like Naas to Heuston station by car. It sometimes can take this just to get to the M50 such as when a minor accident occurs. I know this because I commuted it for 12 years until last January. By comparison the journey from Carlow to Waterford is 40 minutes by car and Kilkenny City is done comfortably in 25 minutes. Their is no comparison between the two journies.The one to Dublin is far more strenuous before any illness is taken ino consideration.

Dozen Wicked Words

I think the Kilkenny A+E under threat idea all stemmed from WRHs Clinical Director back in 2009. Dr Landers pitched the idea that only WRH should have consultant led A+E in the region, which would, in theory mean Kilkenny lost their A+E.

Kilkenny People story from 2009

mydogjack

Max Powers wrote: »

I and most people prefer to rely on facts and information from professionals whos job it is to assess such things - cleanliness, efficieny etc rather than unqualified speculation.

Ahem, for the second time, as you seem to be more than a little slow on the uptake, I've worked/work in both hospitals and have a "professional" view on my comment. "Unqualified speculation"would surely apply to you, not me, and again I will say, WRH has a way higher proportion of infection than any other hospital in the region.

fuzzy dunlop

mydogjack wrote: »

Ahem, for the second time, as you seem to be more than a little slow on the uptake, I've worked/work in both hospitals and have a "professional" view on my comment. "Unqualified speculation"would surely apply to you, not me, and again I will say, WRH has a way higher proportion of infection than any other hospital in the region.

No offence but your "professiona viewl" sounds a bit suspect. We're basically supposed to believe an anonymous internet poster over the national broadcaster and the HSE which manages all the states hospitals. Sorry but what your saying is frankly ludicrous.

mydogjack

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No offence but your "professiona viewl" sounds a bit suspect. We're basically supposed to believe an anonymous internet poster over the national broadcaster and the HSE which manages all the states hospitals. Sorry but what your saying is frankly ludicrous.

Would you rather believe somebody who has grammatical errors such as "viewl"? But on a serious note I am a HSE employee and a professional also. Nothing "ludicrous" Mr. Fuzzy Dunlop!

fuzzy dunlop

mydogjack wrote: »

Would you rather believe somebody who has grammatical errors such as "viewl"? But on a serious note I am a HSE employee and a professional also. Nothing "ludicrous" Mr. Fuzzy Dunlop!

A bit sensitive aren't we? My car mechanic is a professional.He also works for the HSE. That doesn't mean I would trust his opinion on how to run a hospital. That would be ludicrous.And the fact is your Jesuitical use of the word "professional" to describe your relationship with the HSE suggests your spoofing somewhat. Whatever your "profession" it certainly isn't respected enought to overule a HSE audit.

Dozen Wicked Words

There are probably infection control rates available for both hospitals if you ask. Not sure the cleanliness standards of the Dublin hospitals are going to be any better than Waterford though, which is surely more pertinent than comparing them with St Lukes?