The Greatest Nation on Earth

NIMAN

none of them

endacl

Reindeer wrote: »

I dislike jumping into these discussions, even off of the After Hours forum, but I see this point mishandled so often I want to address it at least for posterity.

The INTERNET has been around for a very long time. I was using it before many of you were born. The internet is simply the global communication system using the TCP/IP protocol suite, AKA IPS(Internet Protocol Suite). This protocol, which every transaction you are currently making on-line resides, was adopted and implemented by the United States Department of Defense in 1982. It was designed to resist the curtailment of information flow if multiple failures or an attack should occur, and it does that extremely well. Most folks confuse 'The Web' which uses HTML et. al. protocol to be 'The Internet'. The Web works as a layer placed upon the Internet. I was using the Internet to transfer files and interact with folks at other institutions in University before Mosaic landed on the scene(both in the US and abroad). The "Information Super-highway" has been around long before your average journalist knew what it was, and if not for it there would be no WWW as it currently is.

What I really want to say about this thread, and others like it, is many posters in such threads often manage to better demonstrate their own ignorance far more so than they can prove the drawbacks of the societies they wish to denounce. The ignorance and prejudice of some of these posts are simply astounding, even by AH standards.

Reindeer. Don't mind all the high tech guff. Settle the other ongoing debate. Are you indigenous to Iceland or not?

People want to know.

RADIUS

kincsem wrote: »

Iceland. According to the Global Peace Index, Iceland is the most peaceful country in the world, due to its lack of armed forces, low crime rate, and high level of sociopolitical stability.

Here it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iceland_satellite.jpg

Iceland is peaceful due to it's lack of people. There are more people in Cork than Iceland.

charlemont

I'd think countries like Japan, Denmark, Canada, Norway, New Zealand are top rate countries, They are all nations with an excellent standard of living and they don't tend to attract negative attention either.

But for all its faults our own country is a great place too..Lots of people would love the opportunities and freedoms we have here so I'm grateful to be Irish.

Eve_Dublin

charlemont wrote: »

I'd think countries like Japan, Denmark, Canada, Norway, New Zealand are top rate countries, They are all nations with an excellent standard of living and they don't tend to attract negative attention either.

But for all its faults our own country is a great place too..Lots of people would love the opportunities and freedoms we have here so I'm grateful to be Irish.

Not to be rude but you've always been one of the biggest moaners about Ireland on Boards and you've stated a million times that if you didn't have a kid here, you'd be out of here in a flash followed by a load of rabble rabble. What's changed? Glad to hear you've seen sense btw.

hjkgfjsd

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Not to be rude but you've always been one of the biggest moaners about Ireland on Boards and you've stated a million times that if you didn't have a kid here, you'd be out of here in a flash followed by a load of rabble rabble. What's changed? Glad to hear you've seen sense btw.

What has Ireland achieved since independence, apart from signing away our nations to ze germans? Don't kid yourself. Ireland has never been a society of fairness and equality. Never. We don't jail bankers that ruined the country, yet jail people for not paying TV licences? Face the fact. Ireland is not a democracy. I am actually in the process of changing my citizenship from Irish to British. That is how much anger I feel towards this country and it's shambolic governance. It's seen as a sin to most Irish people, but I don't care. I have lost complete faith in the country.

Death and Taxes

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

What has Ireland achieved since independence, apart from signing away our nations to ze germans? Don't kid yourself. Ireland has never been a society of fairness and equality. Never. We don't jail bankers that ruined the country, yet jail people for not paying TV licences? Face the fact. Ireland is not a democracy. I am actually in the process of changing my citizenship from Irish to British. That is how much anger I feel towards this country and it's shambolic governance. It's seen as a sin to most Irish people, but I don't care. I have lost complete faith in the country.

In my opinion we are better off without those who see Britain as superior to Ireland, Britain a country who started an Illegal war in Iraq, has the blood of tens of thousands of innocent victims on its hands, has been repeatedly found guilty in the European Court of gross abuses of human rights, and indeed torture.
yep buddy you sure are going up in the world!

IvySlayer

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

It's also the same country that put man on the moon, invented the foundations for the internet, the lightbulb and the camera, and produced the scientist who first observed that the universe is expanding

George LeMaitre says hi!!

German science and American money put man on the moon.

jjn2

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

What has Ireland achieved since independence, apart from signing away our nations to ze germans? Don't kid yourself. Ireland has never been a society of fairness and equality. Never. We don't jail bankers that ruined the country, yet jail people for not paying TV licences? Face the fact. Ireland is not a democracy. I am actually in the process of changing my citizenship from Irish to British. That is how much anger I feel towards this country and it's shambolic governance. It's seen as a sin to most Irish people, but I don't care. I have lost complete faith in the country.

Ignoring for a second how ridiculous the idea is that we've signed away our nation to the Germans, if you had to choose between being ruled by the Germans or the British, why wouldn't you choose the Germans?

They've contributed more to the world in terms of science, mathematics and learning than the British, their economy is fairer and more equal than the British economy, and in terms of democracy, I think most people would agree that proportional representation is a whole lot better than first past the post.

Unlike the British, most Germans are ashamed of the evil aspects of their history, and unlike the British, their crimes were mainly those of one generation, not spread across more than a century around the world (and several centuries in Ireland).

OneArt

Owryan wrote: »

The BRITISH !!!!!!!!!!!

Did you not watch that series on sky where they proclaimed their brilliance and took credit for everything ever invented or made?????

Shower of self obsessed pricks

But of course. They invented the cat.

hjkgfjsd

jjn2 wrote: »

Ignoring for a second how ridiculous the idea is that we've signed away our nation to the Germans, if you had to choose between being ruled by the Germans or the British, why wouldn't you choose the Germans?

Unlike the British, most Germans are ashamed of the evil aspects of their history, and unlike the British, their crimes were mainly those of one generation, not spread across more than a century around the world (and several centuries in Ireland).

The European Central Bank runs this country from now on, not Dail Eireann. This has been repeated on the radio since Nov 2010, so I don't know how you are claiming that Ireland is in control. We don't even have our own currency anymore, foreigners from Brussels and Frankfurt known as "the troika" govern this country. That word is associated with the Soviet Union, where people were executed without trial by a trio of commissioners. A bunch of unelected puppets like the EU.

I would choose the British, because despite the bad they have inflicted on Ireland in the past, it's nothing in comparison to the genocide against the Jews commited by the Germans. Better the devil you do know. The Brits aren't Foreigners in Ireland. Germans are. Like it or not, the British never had an agenda to racially kill out the Irish race, or people who they deem as "lesser". They're not ashamed? I call BS on that, you can get arrested for wearing a nazi symbol or speaking about it in a way which shows Germany in a negative light. Open about it my hole. If it wasn't for the British fighting against them in WW2, I would be living under a Nazi flag. Germans are the absolute last nation I would pick for running this once proud country.

karma_

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

If it wasn't for the British fighting against them in WW2, I would be living under a Nazi flag. Germans are the absolute last nation I would pick for running this once proud country.

Not again.....

jjn2

I would choose the British, because despite the bad they have inflicted on Ireland in the past, it's nothing in comparison to the genocide against the Jews commited by the Germans. Better the devil you do know. The Brits aren't foreigners in Ireland. Germans are. Like it or not, the British never had an agenda to racially kill out the Irish race, or people who they deem as "lesser". They're not ashamed? I call BS on that, you can get arrested for wearing a nazi symbol or speaking about it in a way which shows Germany in a negative light. Open about it my hole. If it wasn't for the British fighting against them in WW2, I would be living under a Nazi flag. Germans are the absolute last nation I would pick for running this once proud country.

Are you serious? You can get arrested in Germany for denying the Holocaust, not for trying to show Germany in a negative light. As for saving us in WW2, the countries the British "protected" during WW2 got occupied by the Nazis. If anyone saved us from the Nazis, it's the Americans and the USSR.

hjkgfjsd

jjn2 wrote: »

Are you serious? You can get arrested in Germany for denying the Holocaust, not for trying to show Germany in a negative light. As for saving us in WW2, the countries the British "protected" during WW2 got occupied by the Nazis. If anyone saved us from the Nazis, it's the Americans and the USSR.

You can get a criminal record in Germany for wearing nazi symbols on say, a tshirt or jacket in public. They don't seem too open as you profess, if they aren't even willing to discuss that topic without jailing people. Contrast that with the Queen visit to Ireland last year, where nobody got a criminal record. That is a highly strict form of censorship. Apart from Mao or Stalin, the Nazi regieme was perhaps the most efficient mass human death experiment the world has ever seen. It's detailed in every secondary school History textbook in this country.

karma_

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

You can get a criminal record in Germany for wearing nazi symbols on say, a tshirt or jacket in public. They don't seem too open as you profess, if they aren't even willing to discuss that topic without jailing people. Contrast that with the Queen visit to Ireland last year, where nobody got a criminal record. That is a highly strict form of censorship. Apart from Mao or Stalin, the Nazi regieme was perhaps the most efficient mass human death experiment the world has ever seen. It's detailed in every secondary school History textbook in this country.

Germany is forthright and honest about what they did during the war, and unlike other nations with unsavoury actions in their history, the Holocaust is taught to every German child.

jjn2

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

You can get a criminal record in Germany for wearing nazi symbols on say, a tshirt or jacket in public. They don't seem too open as you profess, if they aren't even willing to discuss that topic without jailing people. Contrast that with the Queen visit to Ireland last year, where nobody got a criminal record. That is a highly strict form of censorship. Apart from Mao or Stalin, the Nazi regieme was perhaps the most efficient mass human death experiment the world has ever seen. It's detailed in every secondary school History textbook in this country.

Are you trying to wind people up, or do you really think that the Germans have those laws because they hope everyone will forget about the Holocaust if they don't see any swastikas?

Capt'n Midnight

jjn2 wrote: »

unlike the British, their crimes were mainly those of one generation, not spread across more than a century around the world (and several centuries in Ireland).

Before WWI Germany had lots of colonies overseas. Pacific islands, 1/4 of New Guinea, and a couple of colonies in Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_German_colonies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maji-Maji Today, the area in Tanzania where the Maji Maji war took place is one of the largest wildlife reserves in Africa. Because the Germans depopulated the area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

jjn2

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Before WWI Germany had lots of colonies overseas. Pacific islands, 1/4 of New Guinea, and a couple of colonies in Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_German_colonies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maji-Maji Today, the area in Tanzania where the Maji Maji war took place is one of the largest wildlife reserves in Africa. Because the Germans depopulated the area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

That's why I said that it was mainly one generation. I wasn't in any way trying to imply that the Germans didn't have a colonial empire, or commit atrocities in their empire. This is actually a good example of my other point though, namely that the Germans don't tend to deny the evil of their history. There's no revisionist historiography in Germany claiming that the Africans were just the unfortunate victims of an unavoidable food shortage. Massacres and starvation due to repressive government policy were common throughout the British empire, but whereas it would be more or less unanimous among Germans, and German historians, that their empire wasn't a force for good, you could hardly deny that many British people have a more nostalgic memory of their empire.

bb1234567

karma_ wrote: »

Germany is forthright and honest about what they did during the war, and unlike other nations with unsavoury actions in their history, the Holocaust is taught to every German child.

Hmm I dont know about that..I was talking to a german who said she learnt very little about german history during school.Well the dark history atleast.

wendell borton

Austria? Once one of the great powers, but since then nothing ever seems to happen there.

Justin1982

jjn2 wrote: »

Ignoring for a second how ridiculous the idea is that we've signed away our nation to the Germans, if you had to choose between being ruled by the Germans or the British, why wouldn't you choose the Germans?

They've contributed more to the world in terms of science, mathematics and learning than the British, their economy is fairer and more equal than the British economy, and in terms of democracy, I think most people would agree that proportional representation is a whole lot better than first past the post.

Unlike the British, most Germans are ashamed of the evil aspects of their history, and unlike the British, their crimes were mainly those of one generation, not spread across more than a century around the world (and several centuries in Ireland).

Generally the Germans seem better than the British at most things they attempt, whether it be warfare, creating a socialist society, building cars, playing soccer or science. Neglecting the second world war, the Germans really have a fantastic, positive history. First World War can be neglected I think. Germans lost it but I'm not so sure they were the bad guys as much as they were portrayed to be by Anglo/American media.

I'd still prefer to be British rather than German. Its more to do with British culture compared to German culture.

Red Pepper

Lars1916 wrote: »

Papua New Guinea

Hmmm, I was there about 15 years ago. Passed through Port Moresby briefly on the way to a jungle expedition. Port Moresby was rough, scary rough. Still get a shiver thinking about it.

charlemont

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Not to be rude but you've always been one of the biggest moaners about Ireland on Boards and you've stated a million times that if you didn't have a kid here, you'd be out of here in a flash followed by a load of rabble rabble. What's changed? Glad to hear you've seen sense btw.

A few cans followed by a few pints...:p

Rasheed

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

I am actually in the process of changing my citizenship from Irish to British. That is how much anger I feel towards this country and it's shambolic governance. It's seen as a sin to most Irish people, but I don't care. I have lost complete faith in the country.

Good, hope that British citizenship is rushed through because you're fcuk all use here to anyone with that mentality.

I'm not anti British or think that Ireland is the greatest nation. But it's my nation and I love living here.

Changing citizenship because of disagreeing with the government and their policies is like changing the football team you support because of a bad season.

RADIUS

wendell borton wrote: »

Austria? Once one of the great powers, but since then nothing ever seems to happen there.

Vienna is regularly ranked number 1 in publications as the best place to live and work in the world. I don't know how true that is but it's certainly a place I would love to visit one day.

Madam_X

Rasheed wrote: »

Good, hope that British citizenship is rushed through because you're fcuk all use here to anyone with that mentality.

I'm not anti British or think that Ireland is the greatest nation. But it's my nation and I love living here.

Changing citizenship because of disagreeing with the government and their policies is like changing the football team you support because of a bad season.

Yeh, angry about their country and its people (which includes themselves) and their apathy, so turning their back on it... Makes sense.
I don't think any nation is the greatest (although I can think of a few dictatorships that are the worst). Forgetting about all the political/historical stuff though, there are cultures I'm drawn to for their musical, literary, film, television etc output and their collective sense of humour - English and Scottish in particular. I find America fascinating too, and eastern Europe and China and Japan. But these are just personal preferences. Whatever about what's deemed self congratulatory like that programme The British, I still find British people in general very self deprecating.

Rasheed

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh, angry about their country and its people (which includes themselves) and their apathy, so turning their back on it... Makes sense.

I don't think any nation is the greatest (although I can think of a few dictatorships that are the worst).

So true, every country has had their own problems whether past or present. Look at Greece, their rich culture, history and beautiful scenery. They are having their problems but they'll survive.

The giving out about ones own country, even on the other thread, 'Things you notice when you come back to Ireland', drives me soft.

If you hate it that much, fcuk off and go to these 'great places' you've come from instead of pontificating about the state of here.

RADIUS

Rasheed wrote: »

So true, every country has had their own problems whether past or present. Look at Greece, their rich culture, history and beautiful scenery. They are having their problems but they'll survive.

The giving out about ones own country, even on the other thread, 'Things you notice when you come back to Ireland', drives me soft.

If you hate it that much, fcuk off and go to these 'great places' you've come from instead of pontificating about the state of here.

Would you ever go and ask my a*se. Giving out about our own country is what makes us Irish.

I'll have my free speech and complain all I want.

GenPol

Jan Hus wrote: »

I hate to generalise but Americans in my experience tend to lack basic intelligence. This is after all the nation of Sarah Palin, she is fairly representative of most Americans.

Saying Sarah Palin is fairly representative of most Americans is as insulting and false as saying that you are fairly representative of most of your countrymen.


My answer would be Singapore. Their education system, success with multiculturalism and multilingualism, as well as their egalitarianism are in particular what makes them stand out to me.

Madam_X

A lot of Irish people bitch about Ireland because they're only kids and it's "cool" too. I like living in Ireland and other elements I'd look at when determining how good a country is, is quality of life - we have it really good here. Also human rights record - very good here. Social equality - could be better here. Better than Amerikay though. Good education system here.
Health service and transport though - crap.

RADIUS

Madam_X wrote: »

A lot of Irish people bitch about Ireland because they're only kids and it's "cool" too. I like living in Ireland and other elements I'd look at when determining how good a country is, is quality of life - we have it really good here. Also human rights record - very good here. Social equality - could be better here. Better than Amerikay though.

So people who complain about something in Ireland are just trying to be cool?

Everyone complains about their country. How can we improve as a nation if we are not critical of ourselves? Just because someone complains doesn't mean they automatically have to "fcuk off somewhere else".

This isn't the USSR where we cannot complain about our government.

Madam_X

RADIUS wrote: »

So people who complain about something in Ireland are just trying to be cool kids?:rolleyes:

No? I've listed negatives in that post myself (edited it). I didn't say people complaining about something in Ireland, I referred to people who just blurt out Ireland is a sh1t-hole without thinking, without comparing it to other countries... from their laptops.

RADIUS

Well to read posts from the likes of Rasheed (Which you thanked) It appears that some people would rather those who complain about Ireland to "fcuk off " somewhere else.

Rasheed

RADIUS wrote: »

Would you ever go and ask my a*se. Giving out about our own country is what makes us Irish.

I'll have my free speech and complain all I want.

I don't agree on everything that goes on here either, I not of the opinion that it's some utopia.

But if another prick comes near me in town, with a tan and a put-on accent preaching how they 'this' thing is so much better in 'that' country and how we should do things like the French/Americans/Chinese etc, I'll fcuking blow.

To come home with this air of superiority because they have gone further than Santa Ponza and prefer the way things are done there, good, off with ya then and stay there.

Madam_X

I'm assuming Rasheed means those who just whinge indiscriminately (the ones I mentioned) and complain about apathy (yet do nothing themselves) and feel they're superior to other Irish people.
Constructive criticism though is of course a good thing.

Red Pepper

No country is perfect and Ireland has its pros and cons like any other country. I love living here and I try to make the best of it.

However...

We must always strive to make it a better country and not simply accept the status quo. There is always room for improvement.

Killer Wench

hjkgfjsd wrote: »

The United Kingdom. By a very long shot. There would be no American Constitution without the British Magna Carta, upon which the concept of rule of law is based on. Common law is a very old British concept still in use in modern legal systems .

It is true that our rule of law is based upon English Common Law, but our Constitution was inspired by the Constitution of the League of Peace and Power aka the Iroquois Confederacy.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/iroquois.asp

Killer Wench

There simply isn't a greatest nation. There are too many diverse tribes, bands, communities, languages, systems of government, thought processes, power structures, and so on, to make this type of decision. I think many nations contribute many great things to the world stage. Some countries are great at generating hope, some are great at cultural contributions, etc.

We could say...

The greatest social welfare state... Canada?

The greatest contemporary cultural state... the US?

The greatest ancient cultural state... Greece?

The greatest ancient political state... Greece?

Nodin

GenPol wrote: »

Saying Sarah Palin is fairly representative of most Americans is as insulting and false as saying that you are fairly representative of most of your countrymen.


My answer would be Singapore. Their education system, success with multiculturalism and multilingualism, as well as their egalitarianism are in particular what makes them stand out to me.

..it's a bit of a police state though, ruled for a long time by an autocratic wanker.

endacl

Nodin wrote: »

..it's a bit of a police state though, ruled for a long time by an autocratic wanker.

Singapore isn't a nation. It's an economy.

Grayson

[QUOTE=Madam_X;81465631Health service and transport though - crap.[/QUOTE]

You left out the obvious. The weather.

Nodin

Grayson wrote: »

You left out the obvious. The weather.

It's foul, and its miserable, but for 99% of the time once you're on dry land its not lethal.

galwayrush

Canada, they gave us Rush.

smurgen

Another reason i like Japan so much that i forgot to mention in My initial post is the way The jananese true their elderly.as far as i know the children of elderly parents Have to look after them or face prosecution.kinda like child social services.i think Its a policy every country could take up.

As regards other countrys i agree germany seems a fantastic country and the people there rebuilt so well after ww2. The us and the uk are great countries but i dislike them both.i think the uk commited many atrocities over the years and fails to adequately acknodledge them like germany did.Also i dislike the fact they kiss americas ass so much.

The us then is a tough one.i dislike them i think because everything is polarized there.the inequality between rich and poor is massive and social mobility is some of the lowest in the developed world.however the do extremely impressive things like put man on the moon,create countless inventions etc....

I remember hearing before the idea that you should judge a society on how they treat their most vulnerable and it stuck with me.that in my mind is why I love japan and have a dislike for the us

Rascasse

smurgen wrote: »

that in my mind is why I love japan and have a dislike for the us

The Japanese have an awful reputation for racism and xenophobia though. Hopefully something that changes over time.

endacl

Rascasse wrote: »

The Japanese have an awful reputation for racism and xenophobia though. Hopefully something that changes over time.

They're not spoken highly of among the cetacean community either...

markesmith

Rascasse wrote: »

The Japanese have an awful reputation for racism and xenophobia though. Hopefully something that changes over time.

That's because the Shogun (Tokugawa I think) for about 450 years enforced isolationism - it's referred to as the Edo Period, and probably still affects the outlook of Japanese towards outsiders. Very interesting history, Japan.

I'd say Japan, or maybe Sweden/Canada. The Dutch seem to be pretty good too.

Madam_X

smurgen wrote: »

The us and the uk are great countries but i dislike them both.i think the uk commited many atrocities over the years and fails to adequately acknodledge them like germany did.

And you love Japan?! Look up Naanking Massacre and the film Men Behind The Sun. Keep a puke basin at close proximity. And don't look up the state's apology/acknowledgement because you won't find it.

That said, I wouldn't blame a nation today for atrocities committed decades or centuries ago. A nation's history does not define it in its entirety.

smurgen

Madam_X wrote: »

And you love Japan?! Look up Naanking Massacre and the film Men Behind The Sun. Keep a puke basin at close proximity. And don't look up the state's apology/acknowledgement because you won't find it.

That said, I wouldn't blame a nation today for atrocities committed decades or centuries ago. A nation's history does not define it in its entirety.

Yeah you're right there it's a hypocrital view on my part.I think I have it because the british seem to love their history and are proud of it when many out their conquests caused so much misery whereas the Japanese aren't.the way the Japanese treated the Chinese was horrific too. Comparable to the way the Jews were treated in germany. But The modern day japanese seem a lot milder and peaceful whereas the british still seem to love warfare

Madam_X

I don't get the impression the Japanese are proud of those atrocities, but apparently the general sentiment towards them is indifference, which isn't too great either.
Britain is so ethnically diverse I would really suspect the jingoism is mostly an older generation thing.