need an IRISH passport to buy alcohol??

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

a few weeks ago dunnes stores refused me (a lot) of alcohol using my full irish driving license !

their excuse : " you can drive when 17"

my defense: "its a full irish license and the date of birth is printed on the thing"

Them : "Doesnt matter, you can drive at 17"


i mean wtf ? i actually have no other i,d ... no garda age card cos i never saw the point to those things and my passport is out of date.

so wtf like ?

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

Wow, that is quite shocking.

Especially in a tourist economy. Perhaps we should issue age cards at the airport?
I'm not a lawyer, but is that case not a technical one meaning you have to pick a defence rather than have both defences, and that's why they lost the case.

Reasonable belief still being a defence.

Read the case the bar was charged in DC with 2 offences the first allowing persons underage on the premises that offence has reasonable belief so that charged on the facts dismissed, the second charge related to supply that only allows one defence the age card on the same facts re ID the pub convicted on the second charge.

It's really simple in relation to supply or consumption on a premises the only defence is age card it's all in the case I quoted.

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

Read the case the bar was charged in DC with 2 offences the first allowing persons underage on the premises that offence has reasonable belief so that charged on the facts dismissed, the second charge related to supply that only allows one defence the age card on the same facts re ID the pub convicted on the second charge.

So a bar would be wise not to serve young tourists without a Garda Age Card.

What an absolute clusterfuck of a piece of legislation.

ResearchWill

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

a few weeks ago dunnes stores refused me (a lot) of alcohol using my full irish driving license !

their excuse : " you can drive when 17"

my defense: "its a full irish license and the date of birth is printed on the thing"

Them : "Doesnt matter, you can drive at 17"


i mean wtf ? i actually have no other i,d ... no garda age card cos i never saw the point to those things and my passport is out of date.

so wtf like ?

It's simple get an age card! I'm like so OMG!

jluv

Rasmus wrote: »

To the OP: I doubt it is illegal to refuse a foreign passport and I'd say she made it up on the spot that it is Dunnes policy- maybe that particular store has been having problems with kids with unsuitable IDs etc . Would the case have been that the woman decided that because you ostensibly appeared Irish that you may be in possession of a mate's passport?
What did you do in the end? I'd be asking for the manager..

Think you should check that out before making ASSUMPTIONS about how a person is doing their job. Is your issue with the fact that people need to have a certain ID or the fact that a person in a supermarket follows their company policy.Have you checked the company policy as you are actually stating that she made this decision on her own..

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's simple get an age card! I'm like so OMG!

A lot of late 20s early 30s would not have one.

As I said earlier, I can see stores starting to card everyone.

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

So a bar would be wise not to serve young tourists without a Garda Age Card.

What an absolute clusterfuck of a piece of legislation.

Yes it is, but considering the crap legislation that comes out of the Dail are we supprised.

I met a TD a few years ago and I told TD what I personally thought of most recent legislation, when he answered me with "sure we are just told by the minister what way to vote, what would I know about legislation" you can imagine why I face palmed.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's simple get an age card! I'm like so OMG!

why ? im 21 like,

just because one shop has a fvcking arse policy i should run away and get an age card ?

no thanks,

i went up the road to molloys and got served there thanks to the lads being dead sound. they only ever asked me for i.d once and guess what ? the driving license did fine ! they remembered me after that !

so no, sorry but i dont plan on getting a garda age card anytime in my life.

i carry my psa license around with me at all times too if my driving license fails me.

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

A lot of late 20s early 30s would not have one.

As I said earlier, I can see stores starting to card everyone.

Well I for one if in my early 30's was being asked for Garda ID I would have been delighted.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

actually,

sainsburys in the north accept my irish driving license as ID and proof of age.

nice twist there.

ResearchWill

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

why ? im 21 like,

just because one shop has a fvcking arse policy i should run away and get an age card ?

no thanks,

i went up the road to molloys and got served there thanks to the lads being dead sound. they only ever asked me for i.d once and guess what ? the driving license did fine ! they remembered me after that !

so no, sorry but i dont plan on getting a garda age card anytime in my life.

i carry my psa license around with me at all times too if my driving license fails me.

It's not a shops policy it's the law and the relevant age to be ID'd is 23 or under. So use passport but don't be supprised if pub or club refuses entry.

MadsL

ResearchWill wrote: »

Well I for one if in my early 30's was being asked for Garda ID I would have been delighted.

In 10 years, they will be carding everyone - I'm in my 40s with grey in my beard and hair and get carded in almost every bar and store in the US.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's not a shops policy it's the law and the relevant age to be ID'd is 23 or under. So use passport but don't be supprised if pub or club refuses entry.

I've never in my life being refused from a pub or bar ( a lot of places dont ask for ID from me) but the ones that do ask , my driving license does fine !


actually heres a great one. the dunnes i was refused in, one of the lads i was in school with worked there too. fecking same year in school and everything and i said that to your woman and her reply ?

"ah i was at his 21st last week"

but sorry, still cant !

ResearchWill

MadsL wrote: »

In 10 years, they will be carding everyone - I'm in my 40s with grey in my beard and hair and get carded in almost every bar and store in the US.

I have never been carded in the US, well once when I was 25 by an armed police officer. There was one time in Vegas but that was been escorted out of a casino when I was 40 but that was cause I was sooooooooooooooooo drunk, again the guy was armed that sure sobers you up lol.

SPQRI

BrendaN_f wrote: »

so i have 2 passports, 1 irish 1 non-irish. i use the non-irish one as i.d since i rarely use it and wouldn't be a big deal to lose.

anyway, was in dunnes last night trying to buy some drink, and the lady behind the counter refused to accept my passport as valid i.d. she claimed they can only accept age cards or IRISH passports (by order of the gardai, no less).

im just curious as to how this could possibly be legal??

Are you legally entitled to purchase alcohol?

SPQRI

It's a €3,000 fine for selling alcohol/tobacco to a minor so this person was well within their rights not to serve this person.

BrendaN_f

Rasmus wrote: »

To the OP: I doubt it is illegal to refuse a foreign passport and I'd say she made it up on the spot that it is Dunnes policy- maybe that particular store has been having problems with kids with unsuitable IDs etc . Would the case have been that the woman decided that because you ostensibly appeared Irish that you may be in possession of a mate's passport?
What did you do in the end? I'd be asking for the manager..

i went to the off-licence and bought the same drink (but paid about 2 euro extra lol). hmm i doubt that was the case, given that im half black (yes the other passport is african, didn't mention this because i knew it would affect the direction of the thread)

jluv wrote: »

Think you should check that out before making ASSUMPTIONS about how a person is doing their job. Is your issue with the fact that people need to have a certain ID or the fact that a person in a supermarket follows their company policy.Have you checked the company policy as you are actually stating that she made this decision on her own..

thing is, she didn't say anything about it being company policy, she said it was by order of the gardai

BrendaN_f

SPQRI wrote: »

Are you legally entitled to purchase alcohol?

of course, im 19, i would hardly show her i.d. proving myself to be a minor, would i?

ResearchWill

BrendaN_f wrote: »

i went to the off-licence and bought the same drink (but paid about 2 euro extra lol). hmm i doubt that was the case, given that im half black (yes the other passport is african, didn't mention this because i knew it would affect the direction of the thread)

thing is, she didn't say anything about it being company policy, she said it was by order of the gardai

I would put it down to bad training the only valid ID is Garda Age Card, it would be very wrong to only accept Irish Passport and not others.

SPQRI

BrendaN_f wrote: »

of course, im 19, i would hardly show her i.d. proving myself to be a minor, would i?

It might not have been a valid passport!!!
How was she to know?

And although you are 19, there is not a birthdate stamped on your
forehead to make her decision any easier!

Ravelleman

Feathers wrote: »

From what I can see, the act governing it specifically mentions both passport and drivers license as valid forms of 'age documents' as it puts it.

Do you have any references (off Boards.ie ) that show this has been overturned since? Not saying your wrong, just interested.

It was the 'Consumer Issues' forum. Found it for you. Check post #6. Apparently there will be a Supreme Court review at some stage.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80437632

It contains a link to a case on courts.ie so it's not just boards-thought.

ResearchWill

Ravelleman wrote: »

It was the 'Consumer Issues' forum. Found it for you. Check post #6. Apparently there will be a Supreme Court review at some stage.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80437632

It contains a link to a case on courts.ie so it's not just boards-thought.

Yup knew I posted this case before.

jluv

BrendaN_f wrote: »

i went to the off-licence and bought the same drink (but paid about 2 euro extra lol). hmm i doubt that was the case, given that im half black (yes the other passport is african, didn't mention this because i knew it would affect the direction of the thread)

thing is, she didn't say anything about it being company policy, she said it was by order of the gardai

The order of the gardai to her company perhaps. Trust me if you're if your the person serving you may want to serve the person but you have to really really think about what you do as you are liable to be prosecuted aling with the manager and store..No pressure eh;)

Agent Smith

Damm Foreigners


Coming over here, trying to buy our Booze.....



:pac:

Depp

http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0029/s082o28300.jpg

this is my bus id...have another one that says im 18 for buying drink aswel...always works

mikemac1

Buy Smithwicks, nobody asks for ID

Yet another tip I've learned from After Hours

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

mikemac1 wrote: »

Buy Smithwicks, nobody asks for ID

Yet another tip I've learned from After Hours

no thanks.

on a side note, just for the craic today while in tesco i bought a bottle of non alcoholic kopparberg !

used the self service till, accepted it and completed transaction without hassle,

but AFTER i got the receipt and was going the assistant was confused why the machine didnt stop me for id....

she asked me for id.. had nothing on me apart from psa license in wallet. no problems.

Agent Smith

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

no thanks.

on a side note, just for the craic today while in tesco i bought a bottle of non alcoholic kopparberg !

used the self service till, accepted it and completed transaction without hassle,

but AFTER i got the receipt and was going the assistant was confused why the machine didnt stop me for id....

she asked me for id.. had nothing on me apart from psa license in wallet. no problems.

Living up to your name....

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Agent Smith wrote: »

Living up to your name....

well i got a strange look off the garda at the breath test check point on the way home when they saw the bottle of kopparberg in my cup holder and i passed the breath test :pac:

took some explaining but atleast she was nice about it

Leftist

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Some countries might not have as tight control over the issuing of passports as Ireland has.

laughable comment.

suicide_circus

Luckily our tourist industry isn't largely based on going on the piss ....

Feathers

ResearchWill wrote: »

Yup knew I posted this case before.

Cheers for the link alright, interesting case. From a layman's reading of it though, I though it was drawing the distinction between having a age card produced (lowercase, as in the 'age document' mentioned elsewhere) & other 'reasonable belief' that existed previously - I.e. you couldn't say 'he was bald so I assumed he was over 18'.

In the case, the girl produced a passport and drivers licence to gain entry which wasn't het own, but we don't know how obvious that should have been to the bouncer without seeing it (I guess one good plus for the age card is that it has a photo of you at 18, whereas if you got your passport at 16 & are claiming to be 21 you could look completely different.) Wasn't sure f Waxy's case fall down on the fact that they accepted a passport at all, or that they accepted one that looked nothing like the girl.

What confuses me is that if the 1988 act introduced Age Cards & the 2000 act amended that to sole defence (just Garda cards, no other docs), does section 15 of the 2003 act (which mentions drivers licence, passport, etc as valid 'age documents') not widen that out again?

ResearchWill

Feathers wrote: »

Cheers for the link alright, interesting case. From a layman's reading of it though, I though it was drawing the distinction between having a age card produced & other 'reasonable belief' that existed previously. I.e. you couldn't say 'he was bald so I assumed he was over 18'.

In the case, the girl produced a passport and drivers licence to gain entry which were fake, but we don't know how obvious that should have been to the bouncer without seeing it (I guess one good plus for the age card is that it has a photo of you at 18, whereas if you got your passport at 16 & are claiming to be 21 you could look completely different.

What confuses me is that if the 88 act introduced age cards & the 2000 act amended that to sole defence, does section 15 of Tue 2003 act not widen that out again?

Section 15 which inserted section 34(A) has nothing to do with the consumption, sale or supply of drink, it says

The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not allow a person who is aged at least 18 years but under the age of 21 years to be in the bar of those premises between 9.00 p.m. and 10.30 a.m. on the following day (12.30 p.m. if the following day is a Sunday) if the person does not produce an age document to the holder.


As I pointed out the case posted in the DC had two charges the first allowing a person under 18 to be on the premises the second charge was serving drink. The DC dismissed the first charge as a passport had been produced (turned out to be fake) but the court felt it could not dismiss the second charge on exactly the same facts. So the challenge was taken to the legislation as it created a strict liability offence.

Feathers

ResearchWill wrote: »

As I pointed out the case posted in the DC had two charges the first allowing a person under 18 to be on the premises the second charge was serving drink. The DC dismissed the first charge as a passport had been produced (turned out to be fake) but the court felt it could not dismiss the second charge on exactly the same facts. So the challenge was taken to the legislation as it created a strict liability offence.

Ah OK, cool — thanks for clarifying again & apologies for my slow uptake
Interesting that they'd make a distinction between the two.