NBA Regular Season 2012/13

ButtersSuki

I'm also fed up of hearing Wall is on a bad team and that if he was on a better team he'd be better. I find that highly unlikely as if he were on a better team he'd have less of the ball in his hands and would likely see his stats go down. That implies his current stats are inflated.

In his rookie season Wall was on one of the worst teams in the league and as the PG, had the ball in his hands more than any other player on the court and he was still below average. Normally the first 2 factors there would almost guarantee ROY, but he wasn't within an ass's roar of it. He's still young and has barely played 2 full NBA seasons (shortened season last year and injuries) but to be talking max is bonkers.

Even taking the players you highlighted in bold that still leaves 10 PGS in the league better than him in his position alone! And you think he's a max!

Dublin Red Devil

He's not even close to Holiday

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ButtersSuki wrote: »

Well, let's take that then - is Wall one of the 10?

No I do not

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ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm also fed up of hearing Wall is on a bad team and that if he was on a better team he'd be better. I find that highly unlikely as if he were on a better team he'd have less of the ball in his hands and would likely see his stats go down. That implies his current stats are inflated.

In his rookie season Wall was on one of the worst teams in the league and as the PG, had the ball in his hands more than any other player on the court and he was still below average. Normally the first 2 factors there would almost guarantee ROY, but he wasn't within an ass's roar of it. He's still young and has barely played 2 full NBA seasons (shortened season last year and injuries) but to be talking max is bonkers.

Even taking the players you highlighted in bold that still leaves 10 PGS in the league better than him in his position alone! And you think he's a max!

He had a fantastic season for a rookie

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Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

He's not even close to Holiday

I know, Wall is far better

Dublin Red Devil

Felexicon wrote: »

I know, Wall is far better

April fools day was yesterday

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Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

April fools day was yesterday

Again it's just my opinion. No bother if you disagree

ButtersSuki

Felexicon wrote: »

He had a fantastic season for a rookie

DeMarcus Cousins was taken 5th in that draft. Would you take him over Wall if you had the pick again?

ButtersSuki

Felexicon wrote: »

He had a fantastic season for a rookie

By below average I meant for a starting PG who was No. 1 pick, I didn't mean average as in the entirety of the league.

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ButtersSuki wrote: »

DeMarcus Cousins was taken 5th in that draft. Would you take him over Wall if you had the pick again?

At the moment yes I would. I think Cousins is an exceptional prospect and it is easier to build a franchise around a big man than a PG

ButtersSuki

Just answer this for me - do you think right now he's:
a) one of the top 10 players in his position in the league
b) one of the top 30 players in the league
c) deserving of a max on just over 160 games over 3 years

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ButtersSuki wrote: »

Just answer this for me - do you think right now he's:
a) one of the top 10 players in his position in the league - Yes
b) one of the top 30 players in the league - No
c) deserving of a max on just over 160 games over 3 years - No

I just said he'd be more deserving than Igudala not that he is deserving of a max contract

PizzamanIRL

How realistic are these results for Utah and Lakers last few games?

Lakers beat Dallas, NOH, Portland, GSW, Rockets
They lose to Memphis, Spurs and Clips

Utah beat NOH, Timberwolves, Timberwolves,
Lose to Nuggets, GSW, OKC, Memphis

That leaves Lakers 43-39 and in 8th place, Utah 42-40 in 9th.

Didn't even think about Dallas and where they might end up.

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PizzamanIRL wrote: »

How realistic are these results for Utah and Lakers last few games?

Lakers beat Dallas, NOH, Portland, GSW, Rockets
They lose to Memphis, Spurs and Clips

Utah beat NOH, Timberwolves, Timberwolves,
Lose to Nuggets, GSW, OKC, Memphis

That leaves Lakers 43-39 and in 8th place, Utah 42-40 in 9th.

Didn't even think about Dallas and where they might end up.

As a Laker fan I'm not confident we'll win any of those fixtures. Dallas are on a good run at the moment and the Rockets and GSW will cause us problems.

PizzamanIRL

Yeah they've lost so many games against teams that they should beat, so can't be too confident against any team at this stage.

ButtersSuki

Felexicon wrote: »

I just said he'd be more deserving than Igudala not that he is deserving of a max contract

Let me be clear - IMO, neither deserve a max contract at this point in their careers.

Wall because he hasn't produced yet, and Iguadola because he's almost 30 and based on his style of play (which relies heavily on pure athleticism) he's likely going to be on a downward curve from now on.

Please list your Top 10 PGs....I'm just curious where you rank Wall.

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ButtersSuki wrote: »

Let me be clear - IMO, neither deserve a max contract at this point in their careers.

Wall because he hasn't produced yet, and Iguadola because he's almost 30 and based on his style of play (which relies heavily on pure athleticism) he's likely going to be on a downward curve from now on.

Please list your Top 10 PGs....I'm just curious where you rank Wall.

I agree with your first point completely.

My Top 10 PGs

Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Russell Westbrooks
John Wall
Derron Williams
Kyrie Irving
Damien Lillard
Ty Lawson
Ricky Rubio

Something along those lines. Obviously the list changes as you get into specific team needs(e.g scoring PG, Rose is top of my list by a distance)

Oh as a by the by I think the best PG in the league is actually LBJ but he'll never allow himself to be played there full time hence I didn't take him into consideration

Paully D

Huge, huge game between the Lakers and Mavericks tonight. 03:30am start but I'm very tempted to try and say up for it. Anyone else doing the same?

Knicks/Heat (1am) and Bulls/Wizards (12am) also play tonight.

Nuri Sahin

I'd have Wall around 6 or 7 myself. His return has coincided with Wizards form drastically improving and he's been, but to be in the Top 5 PG's overall? I'm not so sure. I'll wait till I see him and the Wizards over the course of an entire season (for the most part) before saying he's a top 5 PG. He has the ability anyway to reach that level.

I adore Lillard but he's a lot higher than I'd have him or that I'd have imagined in people's Top PG lists.

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Yeah they've lost so many games against teams that they should beat, so can't be too confident against any team at this stage.

And won games they've far more often than not struggled against and had some big calls go in their favour. I rather see the Lakers in the playoffs than not don't get me wrong, for entertainment sake at least, but not in the manner that is going on at present.

Paully D wrote: »

Huge, huge game between the Lakers and Mavericks tonight. 03:30am start but I'm very tempted to try and say up for it. Anyone else doing the same?

Knicks/Heat (1am) and Bulls/Wizards (12am) also play tonight.

For certain I will be anyway.

Smartly Dressed

I know next to nothing about basketball but I'm trying to learn. I was told by someone that because of his injuries and attitude, Dwight Howard will never be anything more than a serviceable big man from now on - not the franchise player he could've been. Is this true? Can he recover his old form?

Dublin Red Devil

Felexicon wrote: »

I agree with your first point completely.

My Top 10 PGs

Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Russell Westbrooks
John Wall
Derron Williams
Kyrie Irving
Damien Lillard
Ty Lawson
Ricky Rubio

Something along those lines. Obviously the list changes as you get into specific team needs(e.g scoring PG, Rose is top of my list by a distance)

Oh as a by the by I think the best PG in the league is actually LBJ but he'll never allow himself to be played there full time hence I didn't take him into consideration

:P Now you just taking the piss mate.

First of all, your list is completely disqualified by not having Tony Parker

Kyrie Irving is twice the player John Wall is.

Where is Stephen Curry ?

Do you even watch this league?

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Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

:P Now you just taking the piss mate.

First of all, your list is completely disqualified by not having Tony Parker

Kyrie Irving is twice the player John Wall is.

Where is Stephen Curry ?

Do you even watch this league?

I consider Curry a SG not PG.

They're just my top 10.
I think Wall could make the Cavs better than they are now if him and Irving switched
I knew the Tony Parker one would raise a few eyebrows

kmart6

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I know next to nothing about basketball but I'm trying to learn. I was told by someone that because of his injuries and attitude, Dwight Howard will never be anything more than a serviceable big man from now on - not the franchise player he could've been. Is this true? Can he recover his old form?

Who knows, nobody can answer that question!

Dublin Red Devil

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I know next to nothing about basketball but I'm trying to learn. I was told by someone that because of his injuries and attitude, Dwight Howard will never be anything more than a serviceable big man from now on - not the franchise player he could've been. Is this true? Can he recover his old form?

He can recover from injury. That's not the problem. The problem with Dwight is in his head. Right now he does not have the mental toughness to be a leader on any team in the NBA never mind the Lakers. So you're half right.

He can be a great asset to any team in this league But I don't think he will ever be "The Guy" on an NBA team

kmart6

Carcharodon wrote: »

That very well may be the case, especially Wade but I think it would be naive to think that the higher powers of Miami didn't say, hey... screw these guys, they didn't give us their stars so we are not going to them ours.
Pop had the balls to call it like it was last year.

So like I said completely different things!

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Do the posters who said LBJ and Wade were injured genuinely believe that?

Nobody said they injured, I said they were listed as being out with injuries!

Nuri Sahin

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I know next to nothing about basketball but I'm trying to learn. I was told by someone that because of his injuries and attitude, Dwight Howard will never be anything more than a serviceable big man from now on - not the franchise player he could've been. Is this true? Can he recover his old form?

Comes across as mentally weak by many accounts.

Nuri Sahin

Brian Windhorst @WindhorstESPN
No LeBron James, Dwyane Wade or Mario Chalmers for Heat tonight vs. Knicks

Dublin Red Devil

Paully D wrote: »

Huge, huge game between the Lakers and Mavericks tonight. 03:30am start but I'm very tempted to try and say up for it. Anyone else doing the same?

Knicks/Heat (1am) and Bulls/Wizards (12am) also play tonight.

I'll probably get few hours sleep first and wake up around 3am for LA Vs Dallas.

padraig_f

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I know next to nothing about basketball but I'm trying to learn. I was told by someone that because of his injuries and attitude, Dwight Howard will never be anything more than a serviceable big man from now on - not the franchise player he could've been. Is this true? Can he recover his old form?

I'm not a big Howard fan, just because of his less-than-intense attitude more than anything, but I think any team in the league would give up significant pieces if they thought they could get him. Even with his questionable attitude, he was Defensive Player-of-the-Year multiple times and brought his team to a Finals (where they were beaten 4-1). 7-footers have historically bad injury records, but he would be a worthwhile risk for any team.

ButtersSuki

Felexicon wrote: »

I agree with your first point completely.

My Top 10 PGs

Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Russell Westbrooks
John Wall
Derron Williams
Kyrie Irving
Damien Lillard
Ty Lawson
Ricky Rubio

Something along those lines. Obviously the list changes as you get into specific team needs(e.g scoring PG, Rose is top of my list by a distance)

No Parker? No Curry? Come on....it's not about whether you consider them PGs or not, but to completely out of hand dismiss Tony Parker as the starting PG on the arguably 2nd best team in the league, a perennial All Star, multiple ring winner and Finals MVP on a whim is shocking. If Wall goes on to have half the career Parker has, he'll be doing well.