Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Nodin

Japer wrote: »

Well said. Something like a third of the British administration in India was composed of Irish people, so we can hold our heads high in the knowledge we helped bring the British system of law and order, education, railways, engineering etc to the sub-continent.
..........

The "British system of law" in india often seemed to take one form for the natives and quite another for the Brits.

...the fact that Irish people took part in a criminal enterprise is nothing to be proud of.

Greentopia

Would I wear one? not for any reason other than I thought it might look nice on my lapel. Or my hat, or shawl or whatever.

If I had relatives who fought and dies in WW1 then perhaps I would out of respect also, but I don't.

philologos

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Are you really trying to contend that wearing the Royal British Legion's red poppy means you commemorate all those who died in war, including Russian soldiers, IRA volunteers, ANC activists, Mau Mau insurgents, German soldiers...?

If you really believe that, then you're wearing the wrong symbol because the RBL's red poppy specifically only commemorates those who fought for the British Empire/Commonwealth/state. Why are you trying to portray it as an inclusive commemoration of all victims of war, when even the RBL which produces the red poppy explicitly only commemorates the dead on the British (and not even the Allied - Russians are excluded) side?

I remember the dead at war and it's futility at this time of year. Many including the CofE see it for this purpose from past experience.

bnt

I would wear a poppy if I could find one. That's the only reason I haven't in previous years. Can they be found in Dublin, or do I have to jump on the train to Belfast?

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

gurramok

bnt wrote: »

I would wear a poppy if I could find one. That's the only reason I haven't in previous years. Can they be found in Dublin, or do I have to jump on the train to Belfast?

You'll find one at the local Orange hall.

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

Thousands of Irish died in WW1 and WW2. They should be Remembered irregardless of the likes of you.

As for all this British Occupation Bull****..........Frankly people need to get over it.

The topic is about the poppy and the objection to its purchase from the RBL whose funds go to British soldiers who murdered Irish unarmed civilians in NI.

bobbysands81

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

Thousands of Irish died in WW1 and WW2. They should be Remembered irregardless of the likes of you.

As for all this British Occupation Bull****..........Frankly people need to get over it.

Do you see the contradiction in your post?

bobbysands81

Does a poppy commemorate the many Irishmen who were in the British Army who were shot dead by the British Army for being deserters?

golden lane

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What a bizarre question. The answer is no by the way.

What a strange angle you've come at this from.

If someone attacks your children do you have the right to defend them?

Also, do/would you wear a poppy?

well, they were targets from the seventies to the nineties....

targeted by irishmen.......as every child in the uk and northern ireland was.....

i have no problem wearing a poppy.......yes, i do contribute to the appeal...

and will always contribute to it....

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Does a poppy commemorate the many Irishmen who were in the British Army who were shot dead by the British Army for being deserters?

All those executed (not just Irishmen) have received pardons and are (I believe) recorded as casualties of the war, so yes, it remembers them as well.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

philologos

You can get them at your local CofI church bnt or direct from the RBL.

bobbysands81

golden lane wrote: »

well, they were targets from the seventies to the nineties....

targeted by irishmen.......as every child in the uk and northern ireland was.....

i have no problem wearing a poppy.......yes, i do contribute to the appeal...

and will always contribute to it....

But you've no problem giving money to the child killers in the British Army?

bobbysands81

I pity the poor beggars on the streets of England rattling their cans trying to get a few pennies from the folk passing them by. These people have 'given so much to Britain' but seem to be ignored by the British Govt and are forced to beg.

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

All those executed (not just Irishmen) have received pardons and are (I believe) recorded as casualties of the war, so yes, it remembers them as well.

'Casualties of war' - murder has never sounded so nice.

gurramok

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

Kingsmill.

What? Kingsmill bread? Recommend it.

K-9

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But you've no problem giving money to the child killers in the British Army?

If that was the yardstick neither side of the Northern conflict would get anything.

karma_

Fratton Fred wrote: »

All those executed (not just Irishmen) have received pardons and are (I believe) recorded as casualties of the war, so yes, it remembers them as well.

They got pardons? That's great I'm sure they are all delighted with that... oh, wait.

LordSutch

Aodh Rua wrote: »

Yawn. Troll elsewhere.

Well in defence of Iwasfrozen, the concept of Ireland being a colony/former colony is only a recent concept (hard to beleve now), maybe even as recent as since the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, which unleashed all kinds of new terms & ideas/understandings as to who we are/were and where we are going. To Unionists the 'colony' term holds little weight. Reason: because we are not part of another continent, we are joined at the hip literlly, geographically, culturally and in many other ways to the neighbouring island GB. To finish, I guess it all depends on what you want to project about your past. A long suffering 'Colony' - or one part of a small group of islands who have had their family squabbles down through the centuries, Big Brother (GB) being the powerhouse of the world for much of that time, with Ireland being the smaller less powerful island heavily involved in that relationship. This is not to say that GB parliaments have not mistreated Ireland, but just that we the people of Ireland & Britain are so intertwined as two islands in (a group of islands together) on the periphery of Europe.

Hidalgo

personally I have no problem with anyone wearing a poppy, whatever floats one's boat.

What annoys me is that in recent years anyone working on English TV is expected to wear one, no matter what your nationality is. I wonder if a guest presenter/analyst etc didn't wear one, would it affect their chances of future jobs.

Its become a joke at this stage, with soccer teams having them emblazoned on their jerseys. More a fashion statement than anything now.

LordSutch

Well said Hidalgo, that's exactly the point I was making way back in post#331.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81508349&postcount=331

Japer

Aodh Rua wrote: »

hey deserve commemoration due to some tribal/ethnic characteristic?

Actually no. The charity does not discriminate on terms of "tribal/ ethnic charactieristic " as you call it, or on grounds of race, religion, gender or sexuality.Hundreds of thousands of Irish people volunteered for the UK armed services during their lives, and millions from commonwealth nations. None of the Irish people I ever heard of / talked to said they were descriminated against by the forces, or were treated unfairly. All deserve our respect and we should remember their fallen comrades, so the likes of you can live in peace and freedom. If nobody done the dirty work / stood up for defence of these islands, you would be speaking Spanish, German or Russian by now. If you lived during the Spanish inquisition, were one of the many millions murdered by the Nazis or in a Russian gulag, you would realise how lucky we were / are.

Hidalgo

I don't wear one and don't intend on doing so anytime soon, but can anyone clear up the following.

Does money raised go to soldiers who lost their lives in WWI onwards or also to those who died in conflicts such as Egypt, India, Meopotamia, Ireland etc etc.

Many of those who were stationed in these regions were ex-service men from WWI but were then taking part in the type of actions that Britain railed against especially in WWII.

Celly Smunt

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But you've no problem giving money to the child killers in the British Army?

eh,bit presumptuous calling the british army the only child killers.

Hidalgo

Japer wrote: »

Actually no. The charity does not discriminate on terms of "tribal/ ethnic charactieristic " as you call it, or on grounds of race, religion, gender or sexuality.Hundreds of thousands of Irish people volunteered for the UK armed services during their lives, and millions from commonwealth nations. None of the Irish people I ever heard of / talked to said they were descriminated against by the forces, or were treated unfairly. All deserve our respect and we should remember their fallen comrades, so the likes of you can live in peace and freedom. If nobody done the dirty work / stood up for defence of these islands, you would be speaking Spanish, German or Russian by now. If you lived during the Spanish inquisition, were one of the many millions murdered by the Nazis or in a Russian gulag, you would realise how lucky we were / are.

Then again, is speaking English any different than speaking Spanish. Should Ireland bow down and say thanks sir to England for taking over this island for hundreds of years. When you mention 'dirty work' do you include British involvement in WWI.

Finally, comparing the Spanish Inquisition to acts committed by the Nazis or Russian gulags is farcical at best. Many towns in Spain saw an inquisitor once a generation or so, the same cannot be said of your other examples. The oppression during the Spanish Inquisition was very similar to what went on during the same period in other European kingdoms.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

gurramok

pmcmahon wrote: »

eh,bit presumptuous calling the british army the only child killers.

True, then why fund the BA soldiers who murdered those kids through your purchase of a poppy?
You're not being asked to fund retired IRA child killers, are not all children who are murdered equal victims?

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

'Casualties of war' - murder has never sounded so nice.

You're not really I'm a position to judge to be honest, not when you give yourself the user name of a prominent member of an organisation who's strategy was to target civilians and carried out more than their fair share of murder.

Judgement Day

gurramok wrote: »

You'll find one at the local Orange hall.



The topic is about the poppy and the objection to its purchase from the RBL whose funds go to British soldiers who murdered Irish unarmed civilians in NI.

Well I'll be wearing one and buying it, as I do every year, in rebel Enniscorthy outside a local supermarket. I consider myself very lucky to have grown up in the first generation of my family for many years not to have had to join the forces - thanks to the sacrifices made by millions of others. Some posters in this thread really need to grow-up, same old ****e every November, nobody's forcing you to wear a poppy.

gurramok

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well I'll be wearing one and buying it, as I do every year, in rebel Enniscorthy outside a local supermarket. I consider myself very lucky to have grown up in the first generation of my family for many years not to have had to join the forces - thanks to the sacrifices made by millions of others. Some posters in this thread really need to grow-up, same old ****e every November, nobody's forcing you to wear a poppy.

Of course you would wear it and label objectors "to grow up". You're a self proclaimed Unionist. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80553785&postcount=24 A pity you did not declare your background to others in this thread. By the way, i'm Nationalist.

old hippy

gurramok wrote: »

Of course you would wear it and label objectors "to grow up". You're a self proclaimed Unionist. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80553785&postcount=24 A pity you did not declare your background to others in this thread. By the way, i'm Nationalist.

LOL @ an old, old, story.

2012 and we're still labelling ourselves?

Let ye and ye wear your silly poppies and lillies and be done with it. There's far more important things to be worrying about.

Lelantos

bobbysands81 wrote: »

'Casualties of war' - murder has never sounded so nice.

The IRA quite liked the sound of it too

Nodin

philologos wrote: »

I remember the dead at war and it's futility at this time of year. Many including the CofE see it for this purpose from past experience.

...which is irrelevant, as I showed here....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81521664&postcount=446

lordsutch wrote:

Well in defence of Iwasfrozen, the concept of Ireland being a colony/former colony is only a recent concept (hard to beleve now), maybe even as recent as since the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, .

...bollocks.

Japer wrote:

All deserve our respect and we should remember their fallen comrades, so the likes of you can live in peace and freedom. If nobody done the dirty work / stood up for defence of these islands, you would be speaking Spanish, German or Russian by now..

The poppy funds do not go towards WW1 and II families, graves etc, but all ex service personnell. Nobody involved in the business of empire deserves respect.

FrattonFred wrote:

You're not really I'm a position to judge to be honest, not when you give yourself the user name of a prominent member of an organisation ..

He could be called Robert Mugabe and it would make no difference to the fact that funds from the poppy benefit veterans of Iraq, Kenya, Aden, Rhodesia and the rest.

Judgementday wrote:

I consider myself very lucky to have grown up in the first generation of my family for many years not to have had to join the forces - thanks to the sacrifices made by millions of others...

The millions of others who resisted and put an end to the Empire across the globe?

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

He could be called Robert Mugabe and it would make no difference to the fact that funds from the poppy benefit veterans of Iraq, Kenya, Aden, Rhodesia and the rest.

There you go with that acorn again....

They also go to help those injured in Bosnia, the Falklands, Kosovo, The first Iraq war (Hey, even the IRA called a ceasefire when that was on to allow the British army to concentrate forces on liberating Kuwait) Sierra Leone, Afghanistan (You know, the UN sanctioned operation, unreservedly supported by the Irish).

And lets face it, the ones I'm talking about are generally a bit more recent and therefore a lot more likely to have ex soldiers in need of assistance than the ones you keep banging on about.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There you go (.........)on about.

NI and the 2nd Iraq war were "recent" too. The truth of the matter is its about supporting ex-British service personnell.

ejmaztec

Nodin wrote: »

NI and the 2nd Iraq war were "recent" too. The truth of the matter is its about supporting ex-British service personnell.

I wouldn't imagine that any of them are living here, so they wouldn't be reaping the benefits of a poppy collection in Ireland.

Nodin

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wouldn't imagine that any of them are living here, so they wouldn't be reaping the benefits of a poppy collection in Ireland.

....in which case they're more than likely veterans of the older conflicts and the point still stands.

ejmaztec

Nodin wrote: »

....in which case they're more than likely veterans of the older conflicts and the point still stands.

As I said in a previous post, those people are probably long since dead.

Nodin

ejmaztec wrote: »

As I said in a previous post, those people are probably long since dead.

...then who, exactly, gets the money?

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

...then who, exactly, gets the money?

This, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81489233&postcount=240

Japer

Nodin wrote: »

" ex-British service personnell "

Millions of people around the world - including hundreds of thousands of Irish people - are proud to have served as " British service personnell", and the charity remember their dead and helps in a small way surviving personnell and their families who may be in need, inc some in Ireland. The money the charity gets in Ireland stays in Ireland. British service personnell are generally highly respected around the world, as high as an army / navy / air force of so many hundreds of thousands of people can be. Even their enemies respect them. Time you left your bitterness behind.

ejmaztec

Nodin wrote: »

...then who, exactly, gets the money?

I remember reading in one of these annual threads something about old graves getting maintained etc... I wouldn't have thought they'd collect enough money to do much else here.

In my opinion the British government should cough up, as they were the ones ultimately responsible for sending these people off into battle. The veterans in need shouldn't need hand-outs from charities.

Nodin

Japer wrote: »

Millions of people around the world - including hundreds of thousands of Irish people - are proud to have served as " British service personnell", and the charity remember their dead and helps in a small way surviving personnell and their families who may be in need, inc some in Ireland.............

Yes, I'm sure the same folk that imprisoned Gandhi, put down risings all over Africa and Asia are "proud" and indeed may well be on hard times now....I struggle to see why I should rate them any differently to a KGB veterans organisation however. I also fail to see how "some in Ireland" is relevant. Am I supposed to go "O its ok" if somebody responsible for shooting down Malays, Burmese or Kenyans happens to be Irish?

Nodin

ejmaztec wrote: »

I remember reading in one of these annual threads something about old graves getting maintained etc... I wouldn't have thought they'd collect enough money to do much else here.

In my opinion the British government should cough up, as they were the ones ultimately responsible for sending these people off into battle. The veterans in need shouldn't need hand-outs from charities.

A seperate charity could be founded to cater for graves for WW1 and WW2 veterans. Other than that, we hit the same difficulty again.

Fratton Fred

ejmaztec wrote: »

I remember reading in one of these annual threads something about old graves getting maintained etc... I wouldn't have thought they'd collect enough money to do much else here.

In my opinion the British government should cough up, as they were the ones ultimately responsible for sending these people off into battle. The veterans in need shouldn't need hand-outs from charities.

WWi and WWII graves are maintained by the CWGC, not the RBL. http://www.cwgc.org/

ejmaztec

Fratton Fred wrote: »

WWi and WWII graves are maintained by the CWGC, not the RBL. http://www.cwgc.org/

It looks like whoever posted the source of my information was wrong.:(

Japer

Nodin wrote: »

I struggle to see why I should rate them any differently to a KGB veterans organisation however.

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did not volunteer for the KGB. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did join the UK forces, and many gave their lives fighting for the freedom of speech you have today, and which exists in most English speaking countries around the world. If you think the British armed forces are comparable to the Nzis or the KGB, maybe you would prefered to live in a world in which they won? ( WW2 and the cold war ). Yes or no?

May I remind you that British service personnell are generally highly respected around the world, as high as an army / navy / air force of so many hundreds of thousands of people can be. Even their enemies respect them. Time you left your bitterness behind.

Madam

Japer wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did not volunteer for the KGB. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people did join the UK forces, and many gave their lives fighting for the freedom of speech you have today, and which exists in most English speaking countries around the world. If you think the British armed forces are comparable to the Nzis or the KGB, maybe you would prefered to live in a world in which they won? ( WW2 and the cold war ). Yes or no?

May I remind you that British service personnell are generally highly respected around the world, as high as an army / navy / air force of so many hundreds of thousands of people can be. Even their enemies respect them. Time you left your bitterness behind.

Being respected doesn't mean your liked though(just saying:)).

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You're not really I'm a position to judge to be honest, not when you give yourself the user name of a prominent member of an organisation who's strategy was to target civilians and carried out more than their fair share of murder.

On that very basis I presume you refuse to wear a poppy?

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

On that very basis I presume you refuse to wear a poppy?

Nope, I'll ne wearing one on Nov 11th but I will also respect people wearing the easter Lilly come March.

I recognise that both symbols have a wider symbolic meaning that goes beyond the narrow perceptions shown on this thread.