Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

summerskin

partyguinness wrote: »

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I think you will find they are ales and stouts. Not beers.;)

Ale and stout are types of beer. I suggest you research a little more.

I think you are thinking of lagers or pilsners.

summerskin

partyguinness wrote: »

I am indeed in the West Midlands but I feel very much back in the motherland on this thread.

As do I from my location in Galway

summerskin

basillarkin wrote: »

The Boers might have something to say about that, the Brits forced to use concentration camps and sorched earth policy to win that war as military they were defeated by the farmers.

Ah but we won. That's what matters. Funny how people praise Russia for using the same policy in ww2 but criticise the British...

GRMA

summerskin wrote: »

Ah but we won. That's what matters. Funny how people praise Russia for using the same policy in ww2 but criticise the British...

Bit of a difference there between fighting the boers and that nazis.

A proud moment in the history of Empire I'm sure

basillarkin

summerskin wrote: »

Ah but we won. That's what matters. Funny how people praise Russia for using the same policy in ww2 but criticise the British...

I didn't refer to the USSR anywhere in my post

millie35

Maybe this is a larger/pilsner thread.

Nodin

summerskin wrote: »

Ah but we won. That's what matters. Funny how people praise Russia for using the same policy in ww2 but criticise the British...

...I'm fairly sure - nay, certain - that few if any praise the russians for concentration camps, at least in english language fora...

Nodin

GRMA wrote: »

Bit of a difference there between fighting the boers and that nazis.

A proud moment in the history of Empire I'm sure

...well they had rifles, which came as a shock, as you didn't go to Africa to get shot at with a rifle.

basillarkin

Nodin wrote: »

...well they had rifles, which came as a shock, as you didn't go to Africa to get shot at with a rifle.

A lot of Irishmen died fighting for British imperialism in South Africa, which was basically the boers found gold in the Transvaal and the Brits wanted it.

Nodin

basillarkin wrote: »

A lot of Irishmen died fighting for British imperialism in South Africa, which was basically the boers found gold in the Transvaal and the Brits wanted it.

Part of the pervisity of the colonial/imperial regimes was that they used conquered peoples to subjugate and conquer others.

Lelantos

GRMA wrote: »

At this stage you've just confirmed that you are full of sh!t.

Pot, kettle, black.

Mint Sauce

Not sure if its been brought up, but theres even alot of English/British people not wearing them around this rememberence day.

Am over in London at the mo, and the appeal this year is being really pushed by all elements of the Media, the press, the news, entertainment, etc etc. So much to a point that people think they are being bullied into wearing one, with reports of some people even being questioned on why they are not wearing one, even if they have donated or done charity work for the armed forces or royal british legion.

GRMA

Lelantos wrote: »

Pot, kettle, black.

I'm not the one making stuff up am I?

Nodin

Lelantos wrote: »

Pot, kettle, black.

The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

Do you have a source/sources to show that

(a) the NGA was run by IRA members

(b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?


Either back it up, or do the decent thing and withdraw the remark.

golden lane

basillarkin wrote: »

A lot of Irishmen died fighting for British imperialism in South Africa, which was basically the boers found gold in the Transvaal and the Brits wanted it.

mostly irish immigrants wanted that war.....
and gold.....

basillarkin

golden lane wrote: »

mostly irish immigrants wanted that war.....
and gold.....

Not many Irish fought on the Boer side, bar Blakes(Irish/American)and later McBride's brigade, the majority of Irish that fought were on the British side, Maurice Moore a Connaught ranger was deeply critical of the tatics used by the British over there, I have refered to them in an earlier post.

Lelantos

GRMA wrote: »

I'm not the one making stuff up am I?

Nodin wrote: »

Do you have a source/sources to show that

(a) the NGA was run by IRA members

(b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?


Either back it up, or do the decent thing and withdraw the remark.

Getting double teamed by The Chucky Brothers, " To me, to you, to me!"

Nodin

Lelantos wrote: »

Getting double teamed by The Chucky Brothers, " To me, to you, to me!"

Just do the decent thing, and either back up your statement or withdraw it.

Rascasse

Nodin wrote: »

(b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

This point is probably true. A quick google shows Sinn Fein, "Sociallist Productions', Derry Sinn Fein, RepublicanBookshop.com, all selling the metal badges, but no mention that the proceeds go the the NGA. We can safely assume, therefore, that the proceeds stay with the seller.

Further, the lack of mention of the NGA in this An Phoblacht article and this statement by Gerry Adams. If that wasn't enough, on this video on the Sinn Fein youtube channel you can see Sinn Fein launching the easter lily campaign in aid of the "Belfast National Graves Association" when the NGA say "There are no branch committees, there are no County branches, i.e. Belfast National Graves Association, Tyrone National Graves Association.".

So if you buy a lily from the NGA then they get them money. Any one else and god knows who gets it, Sinn Fein, eirigi, worse?

I also note the NGA are a private company - not a charity. Something I would find extremely dubious.

Nodin

Rascasse wrote: »

This point is probably true. A quick google shows Sinn Fein, "Sociallist Productions', Derry Sinn Fein, RepublicanBookshop.com, all selling the metal badges, but no mention that the proceeds go the the NGA. We can safely assume, therefore, that the proceeds stay with the seller.

Further, the lack of mention of the NGA in this An Phoblacht article and this statement by Gerry Adams. If that wasn't enough, on this video on the Sinn Fein youtube channel you can see Sinn Fein launching the easter lily campaign in aid of the "Belfast National Graves Association" when the NGA say "There are no branch committees, there are no County branches, i.e. Belfast National Graves Association, Tyrone National Graves Association.".

So if you buy a lily from the NGA then they get them money. Any one else and god knows who gets it, Sinn Fein, eirigi, worse?

I also note the NGA are a private company - not a charity. Something I would find extremely dubious.

There are a number of different lillies on sale. Eirigi have nothing to do with Sinn Fein. The accusation is that the NGA gave funds to SF and was run by IRA members.

partyguinness

All this talk and comparison with the Easter Lilly is a red herring...

How many do you actually see?
How many presenters/people on Irish TV will wear one?
How many sports players will wear them around easter time attached to jerseys?
How many newspapers will have it on the front page of their paper?

Lelantos

GRMA wrote: »

Vast majority went to the NGA which looks after the graves and monuments of Irish patriots.

Nodin wrote: »

There are a number of different lillies on sale. Eirigi have nothing to do with Sinn Fein. The accusation is that the NGA gave funds to SF and was run by IRA members.

Never let it be said i dont correct you, i said the the vast majority of lilly sales went to sinn fein & other organisations, i never said NGA gave money to sinn fein

Nodin

Lelantos wrote: »

Never let it be said i dont correct you, i said the the vast majority of lilly sales went to sinn fein & other organisations, i never said NGA gave money to sinn fein

Thats what it reads to me.

The NGA is a supposed non party affiliated organisation, but it was run by IRA members, so that wasn't true. The vast majority of sales went to Sinn Féin & other organizations.

Fratton Fred

partyguinness wrote: »

All this talk and comparison with the Easter Lilly is a red herring...

How many do you actually see?
How many presenters/people on Irish TV will wear one?
How many sports players will wear them around easter time attached to jerseys?
How many newspapers will have it on the front page of their paper?

the original arguement, back in the day, was that people who wear the easter lilly are in no position to pontificate about the Poppy. Both remember the good and the bad soldiers.

The Poppy would remember those that carried out crimes in Kenya, the Lilly those that murdered innocent people on the streets on Ireland and England.

Lelantos

Nodin wrote: »

Thats what it reads to me.

Ah, but context is everything, you should have read in what it was reply to. Nowhere did I say the NGA gave funds to Sinn fein, its ok though, I shan't ask you to "do the decent thing"

Judgement Day

irish-stew wrote: »

Not sure if its been brought up, but theres even alot of English/British people not wearing them around this rememberence day.

Am over in London at the mo, and the appeal this year is being really pushed by all elements of the Media, the press, the news, entertainment, etc etc. So much to a point that people think they are being bullied into wearing one, with reports of some people even being questioned on why they are not wearing one, even if they have donated or done charity work for the armed forces or royal british legion.

It has been but has little to do with this discussion, and more to do with namby pamby, politically correct bull**** that bedevils establishment Britain today. Worrying about whether or not broadcasters are wearing poppies while cutting the defence budget to shreds is the establishment's way of dealing with things. :rolleyes:

Nodin

Lelantos wrote: »

Ah, but context is everything, you should have read in what it was reply to. Nowhere did I say the NGA gave funds to Sinn fein, its ok though, I shan't ask you to "do the decent thing"

It's a bit odd you're taking that tack now, given how many times I've asked about and quoted that. More than a "bit" in fact.

gurramok

Judgement Day wrote: »

It has been but has little to do with this discussion, and more to do with namby pamby, politically correct bull**** that bedevils establishment Britain today. Worrying about whether or not broadcasters are wearing poppies while cutting the defence budget to shreds is the establishment's way of dealing with things. :rolleyes:

Cutting the UK's defence budget is a good thing yes? Less weapons sold abroad to various civil wars is good for the world.

Lelantos

Nodin wrote: »

It's a bit odd you're taking that tack now, given how many times I've asked about and quoted that. More than a "bit" in fact.

No, I was just correcting your glaring mistake chucky

Judgement Day

gurramok wrote: »

Cutting the UK's defence budget is a good thing yes? Less weapons sold abroad to various civil wars is good for the world.

Selling weapons abroad has nothing to do with the defence budget. The defence budget deals with spending on Britain's armed forces and for decades they have been expected to carry out a their duties with insufficient funding. I'm sure that that makes you very happy - being a Little Irelander - but to anyone looking at the big picture it's not very comforting.

gurramok

Judgement Day wrote: »

Selling weapons abroad has nothing to do with the defence budget. The defence budget deals with spending on Britain's armed forces and for decades they have been expected to carry out a their duties with insufficient funding. I'm sure that that makes you very happy - being a Little Irelander - but to anyone looking at the big picture it's not very comforting.

So less soldiers have a chance to kill with costly deadlier weapons, still a good thing? You come across as a poster that likes war, hope not?;)

Rascasse

partyguinness wrote: »

How many presenters/people on Irish TV will wear one?
How many sports players will wear them around easter time attached to jerseys?
How many newspapers will have it on the front page of their paper?

You don't see any of course as it is political. The poppy appeal is not.

With Sinn Fein, eirigi, RSF and whoever else using it as a fundraiser and the NGA not being a charity there is no reason for the papers, sportspeople or anyone with a public profile to support it. They would be mad to!

Whereas, those who put money in a poppy tin know exactly where that money is going and what for - namely to provide practical support to injured soldiers and their families and to former soldiers and their families. The only political stuff the RBL gets involved in is lobby government to better help those the RBL helps.

Nodin

Rascasse wrote: »

You don't .........helps.

....all of which you can point out when somebody starts a thread as to why or why not one should wear a lilly.

GRMA

Rascasse wrote: »

You don't see any of course as it is political. The poppy appeal is not.

With Sinn Fein, eirigi, RSF and whoever else using it as a fundraiser and the NGA not being a charity there is no reason for the papers, sportspeople or anyone with a public profile to support it. They would be mad to!

Whereas, those who put money in a poppy tin know exactly where that money is going and what for - namely to provide practical support to injured soldiers and their families and to former soldiers and their families. The only political stuff the RBL gets involved in is lobby government to better help those the RBL helps.

If you buy a lily off of the NGA the money goes to maintaining graves and monuments, they do excellent work and are more oft than not broke.

gurramok

Rascasse wrote: »

Whereas, those who put money in a poppy tin know exactly where that money is going and what for - namely to provide practical support to injured soldiers and their families and to former soldiers and their families. The only political stuff the RBL gets involved in is lobby government to better help those the RBL helps.

The Irish posters in particular who have no problem with the poppy and wear one do not know that. They still think its going towards ceremonies for WW1 soldiers when in fact the funds(UK oriented definitely) from the purchase of a poppy go towards the welfare of the Bloody Sunday killers.

What we need is a new Irish symbol to stop muddying the lines as it was Irish soldiers who fought and died for Irish freedom(Redmonds con) in WWI, they did not die for Britain.

philologos

gurramok wrote: »

The Irish posters in particular who have no problem with the poppy and wear one do not know that. They still think its going towards ceremonies for WW1 soldiers when in fact the funds(UK oriented definitely) from the purchase of a poppy go towards the welfare of the Bloody Sunday killers.

What we need is a new Irish symbol to stop muddying the lines as it was Irish soldiers who fought and died for Irish freedom(Redmonds con) in WWI, they did not die for Britain.

What about Irish people like me who know that it helps retired servicemen and have no issue with it?

Traitors like the Irish president going to a Remembrance Sunday service?

Nodin

philologos wrote: »

What about Irish people like me who know that it helps retired servicemen and have no issue with it??

what about ye indeed......

boomerang

Some of the men who enlisted weren't politically motivated at all. They just needed a wage and there were sod all opportunities elsewhere.

gurramok

philologos wrote: »

What about Irish people like me who know that it helps retired servicemen and have no issue with it?

Traitors like the Irish president going to a Remembrance Sunday service?

Irish Unionists have no problem with helping ex BA servicemen and no the Irish president is not a traitor for attending a memorial service for WWI Irish fallen soldiers.

The Idyl Race

gurramok wrote: »

The Irish posters in particular who have no problem with the poppy and wear one do not know that. They still think its going towards ceremonies for WW1 soldiers when in fact the funds(UK oriented definitely) from the purchase of a poppy go towards the welfare of the Bloody Sunday killers.

What we need is a new Irish symbol to stop muddying the lines as it was Irish soldiers who fought and died for Irish freedom(Redmonds con) in WWI, they did not die for Britain.

Unless in the unlikely event that the ex-Bloody Sunday soldiers are living in the Republic, all funds raised in the Republic stay in the Republic. That's straight from the RBL here, as stated on several occasions by them since Enniskillen.

philologos

gurramok wrote: »

Irish Unionists have no problem with helping ex BA servicemen and no the Irish president is not a traitor for attending a memorial service for WWI Irish fallen soldiers.

I support the Republic and it's continued existence but carry on I find this thinking intriguing

Judgement Day

gurramok wrote: »

So less soldiers have a chance to kill with costly deadlier weapons, still a good thing? You come across as a poster that likes war, hope not?;)

As I posted previously (can't find it now) I'm far from being a war monger but I believe being ill prepared for possible conflicts is a recipe for disaster.

Fratton Fred

GRMA wrote: »

If you buy a lily off of the NGA the money goes to maintaining graves and monuments, they do excellent work and are more oft than not broke.

And also commemorate the Graves of Sean Russell, Peter Barnes and James McCormick.

Great patriots.:rolleyes:

gurramok

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Unless in the unlikely event that the ex-Bloody Sunday soldiers are living in the Republic, all funds raised in the Republic stay in the Republic. That's straight from the RBL here, as stated on several occasions by them since Enniskillen.

Read again. "when in fact the funds(UK oriented definitely) from the purchase of a poppy go towards the welfare of the Bloody Sunday killers". Ireland is not part of the UK. There are Irish people from the ROI who have served in English\Scottish\Welsh regiments in the BA during the Troubles so your ROI poppy funds are not ringfenced.

The Idyl Race

gurramok wrote: »

Read again. "when in fact the funds(UK oriented definitely) from the purchase of a poppy go towards the welfare of the Bloody Sunday killers". Ireland is not part of the UK. There are Irish people from the ROI who have served in English\Scottish\Welsh regiments in the BA during the Troubles so your ROI poppy funds are not ringfenced.

Who do I believe, a random guy off the internet, or the people who collect and distribute the funds?

GRMA

Does the money go to UDR people as well as the other murderers?

Death and Taxes

GRMA wrote: »

Does the money go to UDR people as well as the other murderers?

No, I doubt if any of it goes to to pira,cira,rira,inla,uvf,uff,rhc.:mad:

gurramok

philologos wrote: »

I support the Republic and it's continued existence but carry on I find this thinking intriguing

Do you think you are some sort of Florence of Nightingale or something? You've no problem helping ex-BA personnel who murdered Irish people, says alot about your hidden thinking.

The Idyl Race wrote: »

Who do I believe, a random guy off the internet, or the people who collect and distribute the funds?

Is that a denial, sidestep or what?

GRMA

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No, I doubt if any of it goes to to pira,cira,rira,inla,uvf,uff,rhc.:mad:

I was referring to the regiments gurramok mentioned, interesting you put consider them the same as the red hand commandos.

Fratton Fred

GRMA wrote: »

Does the money go to UDR people as well as the other murderers?

How do you define James McCormick and Peter Barnes?