English refereeing's darkest day?

Ares

A black day today for English football.

Liverpool with a fine goal in the 93rd minute disallowed for a wrong offside when none existed.

Fernando Torres sent off for a non existant dive after being taken out of it by Johnny Evans.

Javier Hernandez winner being allowed despite him being quite a bit offside.

This comes after notable incidents already this season, Jordi Gomez and Jonjo Shelvey's wrong sending offs, Robert Huth stamping on Luis Suarez' chest and countless other incidents.

At what stage does it end?

Its quite clear that the standard of refereeing isn't getting better. What can be done to make it better? Is a second referee needed?

Does David Gill's position within the FA make for a conflict of interest?

Today really should be Rubicon day for English football if the powers at be want to. I don't think they will however.

Quazzie

They normally even themselves out over the season but I believe for some teams they certainly get the good side of such calls. Any speculation as to why is mostly conspiracy theory in my opinion.

Prick!

Wasn't David Dein the chairman of Arsenal and on the FA board at the same time?

Turtyturd

A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

allthedoyles

Well for offside , the game needs 2 extra linesmen ..........One to watch the last man and the other to watch the ball .

These 2 men also need direct communication.

Without ever studying science , it must be clear that nobody can focus their eyes on two different objects at the one time .

Leiva

Look this is going to be hard to sound unbiased...,

but there is no fücking way a club official should be vice chairman of the FA.
I would hold this belief if it was my team who had their CEO as vice chairmen of the FA.

Honest intentions or not they (FA) will always be open to such scrutiny and rightly so.

MUSEIST

Turtyturd wrote: »

A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

a second ref might have sent van persie off for smacking luiz in face (I can do this sh!t too)

greendom

Turtyturd wrote: »

A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

You're thinking Howard Webb, right ?

Jax Teller

Leiva wrote: »

Look this is going to be hard to sound unbiased...,

but there is no fücking way a club official should be vice chairman of the FA.
I would hold this belief if it was my team who had their CEO as vice chairmen of the FA.

Honest intentions or not they (FA) will always be open to such scrutiny and rightly so.

Did you have this believe when David Dein was in same position as David Gill ?

MUSEIST

Turtyturd wrote: »

A second ref probably would have seen 4 Chelsea players sent off.

a second ref might have sent evans off instead of torres

Turtyturd

MUSEIST wrote: »

a second ref might have sent van persie off for smacking luiz in face (I can do this sh!t too)

Obviously not, since you missed the point entirely.

Sergio

Refereeing as a whole in the game needs a complete overhaul imo!

dahat

What a predictable thread.........

Decisions go wrong,that is the beauty of Human judgement

Professional Griefer

Ares wrote: »

A black day today for English football.

Liverpool with a fine goal in the 93rd minute disallowed for a wrong offside when none existed.

Fernando Torres sent off for a non existant dive after being taken out of it by Johnny Evans.

Javier Hernandez winner being allowed despite him being quite a bit offside.

This comes after notable incidents already this season, Jordi Gomez and Jonjo Shelvey's wrong sending offs, Robert Huth stamping on Luis Suarez' chest and countless other incidents.

At what stage does it end?

Its quite clear that the standard of refereeing isn't getting better. What can be done to make it better? Is a second referee needed?

Does David Gill's position within the FA make for a conflict of interest?

Today really should be Rubicon day for English football if the powers at be want to. I don't think they will however.

Don't forget Arsenals goal yesterday was offside as well.

Leiva wrote: »

Look this is going to be hard to sound unbiased...,

but there is no fücking way a club official should be vice chairman of the FA.
I would hold this belief if it was my team who had their CEO as vice chairmen of the FA.

Honest intentions or not they (FA) will always be open to such scrutiny and rightly so.

Why? Wasn't the vice chairman of the FA a few years ago also a director at Arsenal?

Leiva

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Why? Wasn't the vice chairman of the FA a few years ago also a director at Arsenal?

Yes but that was also a crazy appointment. It doesn't make Gills appointment anyless bizarre.

mike65

I certainly think additional "assistants" at either end is worth thinking about, and that said extra officials are allowed to actual make a contribution (can't help but suspect they are for show in EL/CL games). The game has become so fast but are the refs any fitter than 15-20 years ago?

Prick!

Leiva wrote: »

Yes but that was also a crazy appointment. It doesn't make Gills appointment anyless bizarre.

But shouldn't Arsenal have gotten some biased decisions? Or it is it just because Utd get the rub of the green?

dahat

I think referees are great..

Howard Webb,top man,Mark Clattenburg,top man.......:p

Leiva

Prick! wrote: »

But shouldn't Arsenal have gotten some biased decisions? Or it is it just because Utd get the rub of the green?

I am not going there. If there is, or isn't influence then I'm afraid discussion it on the Internet won't solve anything.

My point is that an association that should be 100% independent and perceived unbiased should not be appointing anyone to its board that is also a board member of a club in the league it is over.

It's crazy and not seen in any other sporting organisation around the globe.

jaykay74

:-)

tinfoilhat.jpg

J. Marston

Howard has been on the slide for a while so we needed someone to step up and make the position their own, Mark did that. Fair play to him.

Prick!

Leiva wrote: »

I am not going there. If there is, or isn't influence then I'm afraid discussion it on the Internet won't solve anything.

My point is that an association that should be 100% independent and perceived unbiased should not be appointing anyone to its board that is also a board member of a club in the league it is over.

It's crazy and not seen in any other sporting organisation around the globe.

Are you sure about that? 100% sure?

Leiva

Prick! wrote: »

Are you sure about that? 100% sure?

Go on then.

Show me an FA organisation that has a VC who is also CEO from a club in the league it sanctions.

Rekop dog

You're all still talking about it after the games are over. All the newspapers/podcasts/tv shows will be debating this issue now during the week wheras if nothing controversial happened it wouldn't have got as much attention. Whether good or bad publicity I don't think the prem league decision makers mind as long as people are interested. Think this is one of the main reasons why they're reluctant to make changes.

LiamMc

The Executive Committee of football National Associations/Federations are made up of the Football Clubs they represent. This is both Global and Worldwide.

In England, the Premier league is run by the Premier League.
http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/about/who-we-are.html

The comparison of two individuals in similar posts that corrupt outcomes should emerge from both individuals is unfair.

Mr.Crinklewood

Other bad decisions today, Sterling not being sent off for a second booking and Torres not seeing red for the foul on Cleverly.

Prick!

Leiva wrote: »

Go on then.

Show me an FA organisation that has a VC who is also CEO from a club in the league it sanctions.

I asked you first, you can't do that.

You made a statement, prove your statement is right.

It's like saying that all squirrels are gay.

Soups123

If we are calling out the Refs who made a mistake today and there suitability to ref future games then should we not be calling out everyone on the pitch who made an error. Should Ivanovic play at this level again.

It's a ridiculous statement when asked of a player that makes a mistake but its perfectly normal for a ref!

Fuhrer

Leiva wrote: »

Go on then.

Show me an FA organisation that has a VC who is also CEO from a club in the league it sanctions.

One quick look, shows me the French FA



I couldnt find a list of the Vice Chairmen from the Spanish or Italian FAs but id imagine its probably the exact same situation.

Washington Irving

Prick! wrote: »

I asked you first, you can't do that.

You made a statement, prove your statement is right.

It's like saying that all squirrels are gay.

Your logic is flawed

thebaz

the only reason torres was sent off was , was that king of the beautiful game, Mr. Pulis highlighted DIVING - what a great game we would have if everyone played like Stoke

Diabhal Beag

If you ask me lads, I think there's an argument somewhere to use video replays.

Mr.Nice Guy

There are bad decisions being made all the time.

I remember Bolton having decisions go against them against Stoke on the final day of last season which contributed to them being relegated. I think it's fair to say the consequences of that game were far more serious.

No one wants to know though until it happens to the team they support. If the decisions today had happened to the likes of Reading or Q.P.R. nobody would be batting an eyelid about it.

Prick!

SaulGoode9 wrote: »

Your logic is flawed

No, unless he knows the exact make up of all the boards he can not make that statement.

markesmith

Have to do something about it, these days the BBC Football homepage is more a site dedicated to reporting on racism and poor refereeing decisions

heavyballs

allthedoyles wrote: »

Well for offside , the game needs 2 extra linesmen ..........One to watch the last man and the other to watch the ball .

These 2 men also need direct communication.

Without ever studying science , it must be clear that nobody can focus their eyes on two different objects at the one time .

Top fighter pilots would like to differ,

LiamMc

markesmith wrote: »

Have to do something about it, these days the BBC Football homepage is more a site dedicated to reporting on racism and poor refereeing decisions

There's alot of it about.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Paully D

Lads, these decisions happen week in, week out to the smaller teams and nothing is ever said about it. Supporters of the bigger clubs don't realise how well they have it with regards to refereeing decisions.

SirDelboy18

Sometimes decisions don't go your clubs way, get over it. There is no conspiracy.

If a decision ever goes the way of United, people scream conspiracy. If decisions go in favour of other teams, nothing is said. Hmmmmmm.

Chucky the tree

When you're pretty much the last major sport in the world not using technology then serious questions have to be asked.

The_Kew_Tour

Ya how many people here can remember decisions good or bad that involved clubs like Sunderland, WBA, Norwich, Swansea, Aston Villa, Fulham.

I say you could count in one hand.

Amazing how everyone remembers when United get decisions. Just the ones in their favour.

Then again if your obsessed........

Drumpot

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Sometimes decisions don't go your clubs way, get over it. There is no conspiracy.

If a decision ever goes the way of United, people scream conspiracy. If decisions go in favour of other teams, nothing is said. Hmmmmmm.

Interesting that the poster didnt include :

• Referee failed to send off Torres in first half for violent conduct
• Referee failed to give United a penalty for Luiz handball

But hey, never let facts get in the way of a good old disguised "outrage" rant thats really just an opportunity to have a bitch about decisions that supposedly only ever go uniteds way . .

SirDelboy18

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

el dude

It's a bit like the whole Jimmy Saville thing. Only after everything comes out will people turn around and see how blind they were.

It's gone on too long and there's too many examples for it to be coincidence.

Drumpot

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

Careful now, this doesnt fit in with the general consensus on the forum at the moment . . :rolleyes:

The_Kew_Tour

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

The Conspiracy Nut will tell you this was Man Utd fans.:D

AdamD

Think its pretty funny how everyone's having a go at the ref.

Ivanovic red - 100%
Torres red - he dove. The contact was minimal, he had his balance and was past the player but jumped to the floor because the ball was gone. Probably should have been sent off earlier for a kung fu kick anyway.

The offside: Ref's don't make offside decisions.

LiamMc

Chucky the tree wrote: »

When you're pretty much the last major sport in the world not using technology then serious questions have to be asked.

i understand you may have meant, pausing the play until a recording of previous play is analysis.
But there is technology on the field of play e.g. communication between officials.

Also Association football has accessibility laws for disabled footballers, sight-impaired footballers,, hearing-impaired footballers, intellectually-disadvantaged footballers. AF does this and very few other Global or Worldwide sports do this.

Mr.Crinklewood

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

Some people will not be able to acknowledge this.

The obsessives will claim that these incidents did no actually happen. The TV highlights were edited by Man Utd fans to make Man Utd look hard done by.

KombuchaMshroom

Ridiculous thread.

There are wrong decisions and there are bad decisions. Yes Hernandez was offside when Rafael shoots but within half a second when it reaches Hernandez he must be 2 or 3 yards onside, easy to see how the linesman wouldn't spot it. Same logic can be used for Suarez goal but the other way around. The Torres incident is tough to call too. I watched they game with a group of United and Chelsea fans, some Chelsea fans were shouting for Torres' head over the "dive", some United fans were acknowledging how lucky we were, and vice versa.

I'm not arguing that the offside decisions were right because it is clear for us to see with replays that both decisions were wrong. But some decisions are blatantly obvious and some are extremely tough for linesman with the speed the game is called at, the 2 in question today were both the latter.

Its outrageous to call this english refereeing's darkest day when there have been so many far greater examples of bad decisions made by referees in the past. This is clearly just a knee-jerk over reaction from a fan whose team was obviously on the wrong end of one of these decisions.