English refereeing's darkest day?

Melion

TMO will never happen in football because it wouldn't work. As someone just said, when do you stop the play?

If there's a penalty incident and the ball doesn't go out of play, what should they do? If they go to TMO and it turns out that it wasn't a penalty, how do you restart the game?

Laois_Man

Zebra3 wrote: »

Anyway, Liverpool's goal should have been disallowed. The player who headed the ball down was all over the Everton defender.

YES!! As can be seen from my attachment. What the hell was Jagielka supposed to do here? Plus, Suarez shouldn't have still been on the pitch in the first place. Plus the free kick that the ball was delivered from in the first place was dodgy as ****!

CSF

gerryo777 wrote: »

In the Liverpool game today once the ball was in the back of the net, the game could have been stopped to see if Suarez was offside.
The linesman and the ref today had no view of it.

So the only situation this could actually be used for is offsides where the ball has definitely crossed the line?

Lukker-

More then likely will have been caught on camera if there is truth to it.

PHB

If people want to stamp out diving, this is going to be a result of it. Sometimes players will get booked when they were actually clipped. Especially if they then go over more than they were actually fouled.

SantryRed

Quazzie wrote: »

They normally even themselves out over the season but I believe for some teams they certainly get the good side of such calls. Any speculation as to why is mostly conspiracy theory in my opinion.

This is such bullsh1t.

Washington Irving

killwill wrote: »

The same questions were not asked when Dein was VC.

Yes, they were. In fact, the legend himself, The Muppet, was very opposed to it.

The Muppet wrote: »

I think he has Murinho a valid point. The FA should be impartial and treat all clubs and their players equally. There is eveidence that this is not the case and as long as club representatives are also involed with decision making at FA they leave themselves and the FA open to allegations of the sort Murinho has made. He is not the first to highly this problem.

The Muppet wrote: »

SanFranMan wrote: »

I'm surprised the FA apologised though, thats a first.

It's not at all surprising considering The Fa Vice charman soon to be Chairman is David Dein The Arsenal chairman.

SteM wrote:

What a surprise... 

David Dein is the Vice Chairman of Arsenal and The FA, a United player gets charged but Bergkamp gets away scott free. What are the chances that Wenger won't be pulled up about his comments after the match?

Some threads where Dein as FA vice chairman was questioned:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3043351

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2015325

Quazzie

SantryRed wrote: »

This is such bullsh1t.

Care to state why or are you content to just post utter ignorance?

SantryRed

Quazzie wrote: »

Care to state why or are you content to just post utter ignorance?

Show me stats which show it equals out over the season. I think that concept is rubbish. It's a line said every time something like this happens and I just don't believe it.

killwill

SaulGoode9 wrote: »

Yes, they were. In fact, the legend himself, The Muppet, was very opposed to it.








Some threads where Dein as FA vice chairman was questioned:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3043351

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2015325

Shows how much the rest of ye cared!

eigrod

PHB wrote: »

If people want to stamp out diving, this is going to be a result of it. Sometimes players will get booked when they were actually clipped. Especially if they then go over more than they were actually fouled.

That's exactly it. In the vast majority of cases, referees simply cannot know if there was contact or not, so the yellow card will be wrong at least as often as it's right. There will be massive inconsistencies.

Quazzie

SantryRed wrote: »

Show me stats which show it equals out over the season. I think that concept is rubbish. It's a line said every time something like this happens and I just don't believe it.

If you read my post again that's what I said.

Your Airbag

Ares wrote: »

A black day today for English football.

Liverpool with a fine goal in the 93rd minute disallowed for a wrong offside when none existed.

Fernando Torres sent off for a non existant dive after being taken out of it by Johnny Evans.

Javier Hernandez winner being allowed despite him being quite a bit offside.

This comes after notable incidents already this season, Jordi Gomez and Jonjo Shelvey's wrong sending offs, Robert Huth stamping on Luis Suarez' chest and countless other incidents.

At what stage does it end?

Its quite clear that the standard of refereeing isn't getting better. What can be done to make it better? Is a second referee needed?

Does David Gill's position within the FA make for a conflict of interest?

Today really should be Rubicon day for English football if the powers at be want to. I don't think they will however.

Funny how you only highlight the decisions that go against Lverpool and for UTD. Typical blinkered sh1te.

You start a thread on refs making bad decisions and then proceed to cherry pick the decisions to suit your agenda. Every team has decisions go against them. UTD have had some shocking decisions go against them away to Chelsea but there is no hope these would get mentioned.

Even the worst decision went against UTD. Did you not see Torres high kick into Cleerlys chest that was deemed a yellow card and not dangerous play. It was a studs showing kick to the chest, the ball was nowhere near Cleverlys chest. How he stayed on the pitch is a miracle, he could have cracked Cleverlys rib and sent it into his heart. Bloody shocking decision.

Zebra3

niallo27 wrote: »

They are not linesmen anymore, they are assistant refs.

So what?

eigrod wrote: »

Haha. How biased are those 2 paragraphs ?

In the case of your 2nd point, there wasn't even 1 player playing Hernandez onside, not to mention the required 2.

How could I be biased when I don't support any team in that league? Do explain.......

Regardless of how many were or weren't playing thee player onside for Man Utd's winner, the margin was minimal and the official had a split second to make the call. If he's not 100% it's offside, he allows it stand.

niallo27

Your Airbag wrote: »

Funny how you only highlight the decisions that go against Lverpool and for UTD. Typical blinkered sh1te.

You start a thread on refs making bad decisions and then proceed to cherry pick the decisions to suit your agenda. Every team has decisions go against them. UTD have had some shocking decisions go against them away to Chelsea but there is no hope these would get mentioned.

Even the worst decision went against UTD. Did you not see Torres high kick into Cleerlys chest that was deemed a yellow card and not dangerous play. It was a studs showing kick to the chest, the ball was nowhere near Cleverlys chest. How he stayed on the pitch is a miracle, he could have cracked Cleverlys rib and sent it into his heart. Bloody shocking decision.

When was the last time a ref cost utd a win or a draw, im not trying to stir, I just can't remember it.

SantryRed

Quazzie wrote: »

They normally even themselves out over the season but I believe for some teams they certainly get the good side of such calls. Any speculation as to why is mostly conspiracy theory in my opinion.

Quazzie wrote: »

If you read my post again that's what I said.

darced

This post has been deleted.

eigrod

Zebra3 wrote: »

Regardless of how many were or weren't playing thee player onside for Man Utd's winner, the margin was minimal and the official had a split second to make the call. If he's not 100% it's offside, he allows it stand.

Isn't that what's being debated here ? He did his job wrong because he didn't call it right. Happened in 3 major goals this weekend (Arsenal v QPR, Everton v Liverpool and Chelsea v Man Utd). The 3 assistant referees got these 3 major calls badly wrong. They weren't the most difficult decisions to make either and the length of time the assistant referee took to put his flag up at Goodison Park showed a massivel level of incompetence.

Drumpot

niallo27 wrote: »

When was the last time a ref cost utd a win or a draw, im not trying to stir, I just can't remember it.

In most cases united are superior to the teams they are playing and the decisions that go against them don't cost them victory. The two dissolowed goals against braga could or been costly but why shouldn't they be included as bad decisions in the debate of bad decisions for/against united?

The matter of winning or losing is irrelevant because its just a convenient excuse by people with specific agendas to add fuel to their prejudicial views on united.

gerryo777

CSF wrote: »

So the only situation this could actually be used for is offsides where the ball has definitely crossed the line?

Yea, for potential scores only, or to see if the ball fully crossed the line etc. It's only used in rugby for contentious decisions e.g. the ref or linesman couldn't see if the ball was grounded or if it was over the line, that type of thing.
It's only used a couple of times, if at all in the average rugby game.
If anything, it makes the game more exciting to watch.

niallo27

Drumpot wrote: »

In most cases united are superior to the teams they are playing and the decisions that go against them don't cost them victory. The two dissolowed goals against braga could or been costly but why shouldn't they be included as bad decisions in the debate of bad decisions for/against united?

The matter of winning or losing is irrelevant because its just a convenient excuse by people with specific agendas to add fuel to their prejudicial views on united.

Was there two disallowed goals against braga, I don't remember them tbh. I just can't remember that many shocking decisions against utd. Maybe it's just selective thinking on my half.

razorblunt

It's pretty obvious the refs need help, looking at the Evans vs Torres it took at least 2 replays for Quinn to get off the fence and say there was contact. The refs don't have this luxury, so why not have a 4th official reviewing it, how long would it have taken him to confirm?30 seconds?

jaykay74

niallo27 wrote: »

Was there two disallowed goals against braga, I don't remember them tbh. I just can't remember that many shocking decisions against utd. Maybe it's just selective thinking on my half.

2 tap ins were called back for offsides which were both shown on replay to be onside. Typical types where the defender pushes out the striker is running in. Looks offside but on the replay clearly on. Tough calls to make in real time. I thought todays winner was onside until the replay as well.

Cantona's Collars

It's the delay between the challenge & Torres going down that makes up the ref's mind.If he'd went down straight away without taking a step then maybe the outcome would've been a booking for Evans instead.

Your Airbag

niallo27 wrote: »

When was the last time a ref cost utd a win or a draw, im not trying to stir, I just can't remember it.

Forget against other teams. Look back on the last 10 stamford bridge clashes for dodgy decisions against UTD.

Even the 2-1 Chelsea win at OT that gave them the league springs to mind. Drogba was offside when he scored the winner. It happens to every team. So now every other club supporters are so bitter about UTDs success they join forces to higlight the decisions in UTDs favour in an attempt to suggest a conspiracy where as the reality is success breeds envy.

UTD dont pick the refs the FA do, and thats a fact. UTD have had lots of decisions go against them, thats a fact.

Get over it, its the nature of the game.

niallo27

Your Airbag wrote: »

Forget against other teams. Look back on the last 10 stamford bridge clashes for dodgy decisions against UTD.

Even the 2-1 Chelsea win at OT that gave them the league springs to mind. Drogba was offside when he scored the winner. It happens to every team. So now every other club supporters are so bitter about UTDs success they join forces to higlight the decisions in UTDs favour in an attempt to suggest a conspiracy where as the reality is success breeds envy.

UTD dont pick the refs the FA do, and thats a fact. UTD have had lots of decisions go against them, thats a fact.

Get over it, its the nature of the game.

I'm a liverpool supporter, I can point 3 or 4 times they have been ****ed over this season, that Chelsea game your man makado or whatever his name is handled the ball into the net, I don't see a balance in the decisions when utd are involved, maybe it's just me and the fact I'm not too fond of utd but I just can't see it.

FatherTed

2 off the top of my head:


and the dive by Ben Afra that cost a win last season:

Liam O

If it was any team other than Chelsea I think I'd probably feel a lot worse about today, but the amount of decisions that went their way in recent years have been ridiculous.

Twice Chelsea got the better of close early refereeing decisions, firstly when Anderson set Rooney through on goal only for the striker to be harshly ruled offside and then when Terry escaped punishment for an apparent tug on Valencia's shirt in the box.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8343319.stm

How many points did chelsea win the league by that season? Fúck them tbh...

Your Airbag

niallo27 wrote: »

I'm a liverpool supporter, I can point 3 or 4 times they have been ****ed over this season, that Chelsea game your man makado or whatever his name is handled the ball into the net, I don't see a balance in the decisions when utd are involved, maybe it's just me and the fact I'm not too fond of utd but I just can't see it.

It is just you and there is an imbalance in all decisions when you have human error involved.

How about decisions that cost UTD not only a game but accumulate to cost UTD a league, see here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

It happens to all teams. Based on the linked article UTD have as strong case to feel hard done by, if not a stonger case than most teams.

niallo27

I accept them decisions alright, but one of them was was 2 seasons ago, I could give you 3 or 4 in the last few weeks as a liverpool fan, can you not at least accept you lot might just shade it in the balance of decisions.

Rekop dog

The popularity of these threads while there's decent games going on around Europe going uncommeted reinforces my opinion that people much prefer the drama of it all than the football itself.

willowthewisp

Your Airbag wrote: »

Forget against other teams. Look back on the last 10 stamford bridge clashes for dodgy decisions against UTD.

Even the 2-1 Chelsea win at OT that gave them the league springs to mind. Drogba was offside when he scored the winner. It happens to every team. So now every other club supporters are so bitter about UTDs success they join forces to higlight the decisions in UTDs favour in an attempt to suggest a conspiracy where as the reality is success breeds envy.

UTD dont pick the refs the FA do, and thats a fact. UTD have had lots of decisions go against them, thats a fact.

Get over it, its the nature of the game.

What about giggs handball goal ? Conveniently never gets mentioned?

willowthewisp

Fergie & Man U = Juve 2006, will be proven sooner or later, just like lance, live strong!

PhlegmyMoses

Everytime Niallo posts "Maybe it's just me" it's like he is on the verge of a wonderful self-discovery.

The reality is, it's not just you who only remembers the pro-United decisions. It's usually rational people who lose their marbles whenever the name Manchester United crops up in discussion.

opr

That Telegraph article is such rubbish which picks and chooses statistics to suit arguments. The below has a proper hugely researched stats in terms of referees last season which shows United had a bias last season, read other teams analysis before you jump on any high horse as it's completely impartial.

http://www.refereedecisions.co.uk/how-the-refs-treated-man-u-last-season/

Opr

Kiwi_knock

This was English refereeing's darkest day, yet most fans and journalists laughed it off. But when there are a couple of highly debatable decisions involving high level clubs, people come out in force about referees being biased and clubs being favoured. For me todays incidents were clearcut on replay but in real time it could have gone either way, Torres looked like he went down easy, and Chico was level with the defenders when he scored.

I think most fans can think of times when decisions have gone against them, but also when decisions have gone in their favour. I do not think any team is more favoured, it is just that all teams can be affected by the incompetence of referees.

Ordinary man

opr wrote: »

That Telegraph article is such rubbish which picks and chooses statistics to suit arguments. The below has a proper hugely researched stats in terms of referees last season which shows United had a bias last season, read other teams analysis before you jump on any high horse as it's completely impartial.

http://www.refereedecisions.co.uk/how-the-refs-treated-man-u-last-season/

Opr

They left out 6 matches when doing the review. That could be 6 matches where decisions all went against united. Analysis cannot be based on picking and choosing to suit your argument like they did. But that's suits your style to a tee

niallo27

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Everytime Niallo posts "Maybe it's just me" it's like he is on the verge of a wonderful self-discovery.

The reality is, it's not just you who only remembers the pro-United decisions. It's usually rational people who lose their marbles whenever the name Manchester United crops up in discussion.

I'm not losing my marbles my good man, I'm just trying to remember the decisions that went against utd, there are not many of them tbh. You should try supporting liverpool if you think utd are hard done by.

The_Kew_Tour

Ordinary man wrote: »

They left out 6 matches when doing the review. That could be 6 matches where decisions all went against united. Analysis cannot be based on picking and choosing to suit your argument like they did. But that's suits your style to a tee

+1

I have wasted my time reading the biggest pile of rubbish you are likely to read.

Where to begin with the flaws.

Its cringe.

niallo27

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

+1

I have wasted my time reading the biggest pile of rubbish you are likely to read.

Where to begin with the flaws.

Its cringe.

Could you not say the same for the other article posted, who was reviewing the decisions, did he know a pro-united article in terms of refs would probaly get more views. It also has it flaws.

opr

Ordinary man wrote: »

They left out 6 matches when doing the review. That could be 6 matches where decisions all went against united. Analysis cannot be based on picking and choosing to suit your argument like they did. But that's suits your style to a tee

They don't have an agenda. They review all decisions not just the ones which are according to the Telegraph big calls. The games excluded were the ones not shown live on TV which are I presume much the same for all teams. Each team is given the same consideration. Christ you think I'm paranoid but you think that a site which reviews teams all with mixed results went through every game with the level of research on that site and picked games to suit an agenda?

Opr

PhlegmyMoses

niallo27 wrote: »

I'm not losing my marbles my good man, I'm just trying to remember the decisions that went against utd, there are not many of them tbh. You should try supporting liverpool if you think utd are hard done by.

I do not believe that United are hard done by. I also do not believe that things are easier for United either.

I can remember Kuyt Karate kicking an Everton player and getting away with it, Steven Gerrard elbowing Scott Brown and getting away with it, David N'Gog diving and winning a penalty to get the game to 2-2. I also remember the season when Liverpool played against 10 men around 10 times in 38 matches. I remember Gerrard not having to endure a ban after getting sent off in a pre-season tournament the season after Scholes and Rooney did.

This is all just off the top of my head, from a person who doesn't believe Liverpool get any preferential treatment. I'm sure there are tonnes more. I'm sure if anyone gave a ****, they could find plenty of dodgy decisions for Stoke or Wigan, or whoever else.

But then, they haven't really won anything, and don't have a load of bitter rival fans trying to claim that their manager and chief executive orchestrated the faking of the moon landing and the murder of JFK.

parc

Ares wrote: »

A black day today for English football.

Liverpool with a fine goal in the 93rd minute disallowed for a wrong offside when none existed.

Fernando Torres sent off for a non existant dive after being taken out of it by Johnny Evans.

Javier Hernandez winner being allowed despite him being quite a bit offside.

This comes after notable incidents already this season, Jordi Gomez and Jonjo Shelvey's wrong sending offs, Robert Huth stamping on Luis Suarez' chest and countless other incidents.

At what stage does it end?

Its quite clear that the standard of refereeing isn't getting better. What can be done to make it better? Is a second referee needed?

Does David Gill's position within the FA make for a conflict of interest?

Today really should be Rubicon day for English football if the powers at be want to. I don't think they will however.

and that david luiz handball inside the penalty area that wasn't given. tut tut

willowthewisp

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I do not believe that United are hard done by. I also do not believe that things are easier for United either.

I can remember Kuyt Karate kicking an Everton player and getting away with it, Steven Gerrard elbowing Scott Brown and getting away with it, David N'Gog diving and winning a penalty to get the game to 2-2. I also remember the season when Liverpool played against 10 men around 10 times in 38 matches. I remember Gerrard not having to endure a ban after getting sent off in a pre-season tournament the season after Scholes and Rooney did.

This is all just off the top of my head, from a person who doesn't believe Liverpool get any preferential treatment. I'm sure there are tonnes more. I'm sure if anyone gave a ****, they could find plenty of dodgy decisions for Stoke or Wigan, or whoever else.

But then, they haven't really won anything, and don't have a load of bitter rival fans trying to claim that their manager and chief executive orchestrated the faking of the moon landing and the murder of JFK.

But do you have the same encyclopaedic knowledge of decisions that have gone against Liverpool?
Hardly?

PhlegmyMoses

willowthewisp wrote: »

But do you have the same encyclopaedic knowledge of decisions that have gone against Liverpool?
Hardly?

That's kind of my point.

Anyway, please don't bother responding to any of my posts. If you do, don't expect any further replies. You are soapboxing on a few threads on here about this and have nothing valuable to add.

willowthewisp

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

That's kind of my point.

Anyway, please don't bother responding to any of my posts. If you do, don't expect any further replies. You are soapboxing on a few threads on here about this and have nothing valuable to add.

How would you know.
Afraid of a debate?
Man U clearly have gotten the decisions in the majority of games this season and they have a media machine behind them which is undeniable, the only people who will not identify with this is their own fans who believe that they are fairly and squarely leading the charge. Give over.

Rikand

Bring back david elleray!

10 of him in fact

niallo27

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I do not believe that United are hard done by. I also do not believe that things are easier for United either.

I can remember Kuyt Karate kicking an Everton player and getting away with it, Steven Gerrard elbowing Scott Brown and getting away with it, David N'Gog diving and winning a penalty to get the game to 2-2. I also remember the season when Liverpool played against 10 men around 10 times in 38 matches. I remember Gerrard not having to endure a ban after getting sent off in a pre-season tournament the season after Scholes and Rooney did.

This is all just off the top of my head, from a person who doesn't believe Liverpool get any preferential treatment. I'm sure there are tonnes more. I'm sure if anyone gave a ****, they could find plenty of dodgy decisions for Stoke or Wigan, or whoever else.

But then, they haven't really won anything, and don't have a load of bitter rival fans trying to claim that their manager and chief executive orchestrated the faking of the moon landing and the murder of JFK.

See you were doing great there until the end, a lot of them decisions were when liverpool were flying it under Rafa and I think under Rafa liverpool got a lot of decisions more than there fair share. I don't see why people can't discuss it without mentioning JFK or 911 or other ****e.

GreeBo

Torres dive.
Right shin gets clipped which somehow causes his left leg to become paralysed and collapse beneath him.
Free kick with no cards to anyone if he just continues on, chose to go down like a bag of coal and got done for it; tough.

Nice to see Suarez practising his diving after the goal too. What a perfectly detestable little man he is.

killwill

GreeBo wrote: »

Torres dive.
Right shin gets clipped which somehow causes his left leg to become paralysed and collapse beneath him.
Free kick with no cards to anyone if he just continues on, chose to go down like a bag of coal and got done for it; tough.

Nice to see Suarez practising his diving after the goal too. What a perfectly detestable little man he is.

In fairness it was hilarious. He might not have many fans, myself included but I enjoyed that alot.