English refereeing's darkest day?

Will I Amnt

Winston Payne wrote: »

This influence gerryo. Talk to me about it.

I wouldn't bother.

Your Airbag

Iang87 wrote: »

linesmen dont have to look through players to see an offside, why do people say that?

They hold a line equal to that of the last defender/keeper. Any opposing player beyond that line when the ball is played is offside. No looking through players, no x ray machines, no magic just a plain oh look he's at the wrong side of the imaginary line i'm drawing between me and the last defender

Lol what? They hold a line? Unless they have the Sky sports mega IPad complete with photoshop 2012 that Gary and the lads in the studio have its an almost impossible task.

How can a linesman hold an imaginary line of sight when trying to simultaneously keep track of where the last defender is, a forward coming back into an onside position and the moment another opposition players foot makes contact with the ball.

If this wasn't hard enough all three players are moving and he has a keeper and other players obscuring his view, a crowd on his back and a generally turbulent atmosphere not to mention the pressure of media scrutiny weighing on his mind in case he gets it wrong.

For split second decisions this close is practically a guessing game. He guessed wrong and it happens to every team. Its part of the beauty of the game.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Will I Amnt

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ok, so 1 of 2 things happened.

1 - He seen it and just said f**k it sure I'll just let United score.

2 - He got either the timing of the pass off or he got Hernandez position at the moment of contact with the pass off.

Which one is more plausible?

gerryo777

Winston Payne wrote: »

This influence gerryo. Talk to me about it.

If you and cambo think that an old dinosaur like ferguson, after 25 years or whatever it is at united, has no influence on officials, your wrong.
It can't be proved and you lot would never admit to it, but it does happen.

Royal Legend

There seems to be a bit of inter club rivalry going on here as usual which muddys the discussion a little.

IMO the chicarito goal is only contentious when you watch it in replay. As well as the linesman having to see the initial pass as well as the position of the player, he would also have had to notice that he came back into play.
As for the Suarez "goal" that wasn't, how could the linesman even call offside when he had a clear line of vision and either could see the red shirt of Suarez well onside if he was even able to see him at all. Joke of a decision
I would seriously ask the question as to whether the FA are trying to chase Luis Suarez out of English football, he appears to be the fall guy for every problem they have, Rascism, simulation. Also, considering that the linesman got it totally wrong, does he now miss his next game?

Rayne Wooney

gerryo777 wrote: »

If you and cambo think that an old dinosaur like ferguson, after 25 years or whatever it is at united, has no influence on officials, your wrong.
It can't be proved and you lot would never admit to it, but it does happen.

Convenient all this nonsense can't be proved aye

The_Kew_Tour

gerryo777 wrote: »

If you and cambo think that an old dinosaur like ferguson, after 25 years or whatever it is at united, has no influence on officials, your wrong.
It can't be proved and you lot would never admit to it, but it does happen.

It cant be proved, but yet you make wild accusations.

Hate to have you as a judge.

Sums it up.

Will I Amnt

gerryo777 wrote: »

If you and cambo think that an old dinosaur like ferguson, after 25 years or whatever it is at united, has no influence on officials, your wrong.
It can't be proved and you lot would never admit to it, but it does happen.

Lol. Can't be proved?
Sure isn't Brendan Rodgers riding the FA chief executive??
Until I see proof he isn't ...

machiavellianme

cambo2008 wrote: »

Ok, so 1 of 2 things happened.

1 - He seen it and just said f**k it sure I'll just let United score.

2 - He got either the timing of the pass off or he got Hernandez position at the moment of contact with the pass off.

Which one is more plausible?

What about options number 3 and 4?

3 - I have been paid off handsomely by an other to turn the blind eye....

4 - Excellent, time to collect from Patrick Powers finest emporium....

Will I Amnt

machiavellianme wrote: »

What about options number 3 and 4?

3 - I have been paid off handsomely by an other to turn the blind eye....

4 - Excellent, time to collect from Patrick Powers finest emporium....

Ok, add them to the other 2 and the question is still the same. Which one is more plausible??

niallo27

People quiet openly say refs are influenced by suarezs actions, why is it so bonkers to say they may be influenced by Fergusons actions.

niallo27

cambo2008 wrote: »

Lol. Can't be proved?
Sure isn't Brendan Rodgers riding the FA chief executive??
Until I see proof he isn't ...

Well he ain't riding him hard enough based on some of the decisions this year.

machiavellianme

cambo2008 wrote: »

Ok, add them to the other 2 and the question is still the same. Which one is more plausible??

3.

Will I Amnt

machiavellianme wrote: »

3.

Correct!! Congratulations you have won a prize!!!
Modelled here by my beautiful assistant Britney.

Red Crow

niallo27 wrote: »

People quiet openly say refs are influenced by suarezs actions, why is it so bonkers to say they may be influenced by Fergusons actions.

Of course a referee is going to have to think twice about Suarez falling on the ground than say Kompany or Vidic but that's becuase Suarez has set a precedent because he dives. What Ferguson says in the media is completely different to a players actions. On the field of play the referee is probably more concerned about the actions of the players around him than a manager on the sidelines, the fourth offical is probably more concerned about that.

Any decision that goes Manchester United's way is blown out of proportion and it's nothing more than fiction for the simple minded. If you think Mark Clattenberg sits at home during the week and thinks that he better give any 50/50 to Manchester United or every little decision becuase of Sir Alex Ferguson or whatever reason then you need to have a serious rethink to yourself.

This has nothing to do with Manchester United. The more people get into these silly little tin-foil-hat conspiracies then the longer it's going to take to reapir the bad state of referring in the English Premier League.

machiavellianme wrote: »

What about options number 3 and 4?

3 - I have been paid off handsomely by an other to turn the blind eye....

4 - Excellent, time to collect from Patrick Powers finest emporium....

Not. Sure. If. Serious

machiavellianme

Eli Manning wrote: »

Of course a referee is going to have to think twice about Suarez falling on the ground than say Kompany or Vidic but that's becuase Suarez has set a precedent because he dives. What Ferguson says in the media is completely different to a players actions. On the field of play the referee is probably more concerned about the actions of the players around him than a manager on the sidelines, the fourth offical is probably more concerned about that.

Any decision that goes Manchester United's way is blown out of proportion and it's nothing more than fiction for the simple minded. If you think Mark Clattenberg sits at home during the week and thinks that he better give any 50/50 to Manchester United or every little decision becuase of Sir Alex Ferguson or whatever reason then you need to have a serious rethink to yourself.

This has nothing to do with Manchester United. The more people get into these silly little tin-foil-hat conspiracies then the longer it's going to take to reapir the bad state of referring in the English Premier League.

No, the more emphasis people put on wrong doing and bad calls by referees the more likely it is to be resolved because the issues will remain in the spotlight. Sounds to me like you are more concerned the current crisis be resolved quickly than a just and fair solution be found. That is, unless you are a fan who is happy with all the decisions going their teams way even if it isnt in the interest of fairness or for the good of the sport in general.

If football continues this way and poor decisions effect the outcome of the supposedly "prestige" games, its likely that the neutral (or supporters of lesser teams) will just get sick of it and turn to another sport/interest.

machiavellianme

machiavellianme wrote: »

3.

cambo2008 wrote: »

Correct!! Congratulations you have won a prize!!!

Glad we are in agreement then. I'll leave it at that... Utd fan admits referees have been paid off and they benefit from all dubious refereeing decisions.

Will I Amnt

machiavellianme wrote: »

Glad we are in agreement then. I'll leave it at that... Utd fan admits referees have been paid off and they benefit from all dubious refereeing decisions.

Yes, I can't help agreeing with you man,as an illuminati secret agent in conjunction with the government sanctioned fluoridation of our drinking water supply, you have complete control of my docile mind

Unearthly

I always take it as a complement when people think United keep getting all of the ref decisions. It means they are still seen as the best

I'm sure Liverpool fans old enough to remember have noticed the difference themselves

gerryo777

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Convenient all this nonsense can't be proved aye

Isn't it just!

gerryo777

cambo2008 wrote: »

Lol. Can't be proved?
Sure isn't Brendan Rodgers riding the FA chief executive??
Until I see proof he isn't ...

Rodgers must be doing it wrong so!
Maybe the FA chief has a thing for old men.....

gerryo777

machiavellianme wrote: »

No, the more emphasis people put on wrong doing and bad calls by referees the more likely it is to be resolved because the issues will remain in the spotlight. Sounds to me like you are more concerned the current crisis be resolved quickly than a just and fair solution be found. That is, unless you are a fan who is happy with all the decisions going their teams way even if it isnt in the interest of fairness or for the good of the sport in general.

If football continues this way and poor decisions effect the outcome of the supposedly "prestige" games, its likely that the neutral (or supporters of lesser teams) will just get sick of it and turn to another sport/interest.

You just have to look to rugby union to see how they have embraced technology and how the players conduct themselves on and off the field.
Different class I suppose and no wonder more and more young people are playing it and not soccer.

Will I Amnt

gerryo777 wrote: »

Rodgers must be doing it wrong so!
Maybe the FA chief has a thing for old men.....

Yea, maybe he wasn't giving him a good enough Rodgering

Rayne Wooney

gerryo777 wrote: »

You just have to look to rugby union to see how they have embraced technology and how the players conduct themselves on and off the field.
Different class I suppose and no wonder more and more young people are playing it and not soccer.

A sport with widespread steroid use in which the authorities look the other way.. Yes great example :rolleyes:

gerryo777

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

A sport with widespread steroid use in which the authorities look the other way.. Yes great example :rolleyes:

How long was ferdinand banned for again over refusing drug tests?
Japp Stam was banned for using steroids playing in Italy not long after playing for united too.

BTW, any proof of this steroid use in rugby?

Rayne Wooney

gerryo777 wrote: »

How long was ferdinand banned for again over refusing drug tests?
Japp Stam was banned for using steroids playing in Italy not long after playing for united too.

BTW, any proof of this steroid use in rugby?

gerryo777 wrote: »

It can't be proved

You want proof?

Will I Amnt

Arsenal after being denied a stone wall penalty.
It took 3 replays before anybody could say for sure.
I wonder will this turn into English refereeings darkest night...

The_Kew_Tour

gerryo777 wrote: »

How long was ferdinand banned for again over refusing drug tests?
Japp Stam was banned for using steroids playing in Italy not long after playing for united too.

BTW, any proof of this steroid use in rugby?

and both were punished accordingly.

Did you expect them to get off free?

gerryo777

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and both were punished accordingly.

Did you expect them to get off free?

Absolutely not, nor should anyone in rugby get off either.
Young rayne was making the point that steroid use in rugby is ignored by the authorities, I contest that it isn't.

adox

Ares wrote: »

It was a disgraceful decision. You have to be level or behind two players to be onside, Hernandez wasn't even level or behind with one player. Shocking decision.

Is anyone actually denying he was offside?

It's just a nonsense argument to say it was a disgraceful decision and I don't actually think you believe that deep down. It was an incredibly hard call when you view it in real time.

Disgraceful? Shocking? Do me a favour.

Chucky the tree

Refs been shocking tonight in the Reading vs Arsenal game.

Rayne Wooney

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Refs been shocking tonight in the Reading vs Arsenal game.

Today could be English refereeing's second darkest day?

I think I'll make a thread

willowthewisp

I can guarantee that once ferguson is retired a few years, something will come out about his influence over referees, not to mention gill being on the FA panel.

Rayne Wooney

gerryo777 wrote: »

Absolutely not, nor should anyone in rugby get off either.
Young rayne was making the point that steroid use in rugby is ignored by the authorities, I contest that it isn't.

And I'm saying it is ignored by the authorities, it's a full blown conspiracy
It definitely happens, but it can't be proven

The_Kew_Tour

willowthewisp wrote: »

I can guarantee that once ferguson is retired a few years, something will come out about his influence over referees, not to mention gill being on the FA panel.

Sure its there now. Why Wait?

Because there no suspicions that is why. Ye are crazy

adox

willowthewisp wrote: »

I can guarantee that once ferguson is retired a few years, something will come out about his influence over referees, not to mention gill being on the FA panel.

Conspiracy theorists and fortune tellers all in the one thread.

peterswellman

willowthewisp wrote: »

I can guarantee that once ferguson is retired a few years, something will come out about his influence over referees, not to mention gill being on the FA panel.

Is this the level of stupidity an average football fan has these days? Christ.

Drumpot

I've said it before, there is a wider problem, above racism that the football authorities continue to ignore. It's the aggressive nature of tribalism in the sport that's borderline violence.

Clatter burg has a family and a 16 month old child. WTF is wrong in a sport when dealing with insults (even racial) is more important the dealing with the culture of anger/violence towards officialls, managers stewards , fans and players?

Here's an idea, only the captain can talk to the ref during the game. If a ref is apporached after a game by a player/managed its an instant infraction. All clubs are annually regulated as to how they deal with abuse from the stands (throwing out and banning recurring fans).

These are just a few ideas that could be tried. I've been at many a united game when the police have loads of cameras outside monitoring trouble and there's nothing stopping the top clubs having cameras in every section inside the ground.

If its found that the allegations against the ref are untrue there should be some sort of repurcissins on Chelsea, particularly the players making the claim. This is a mans livelihood and he is now prob a bit fearful until this incident is cleared up or confirmed.

Nobody seems to care that stuff was thrown at united plauers, that a steward got inured and that the ref was repordedly violently approached after the game by a player, but a ref allegedly used in appropriate language so its not really that important!

If clattenbhrg is found guilty his career will be over and he will face the ramifications of his mistake. If he is found to be innocent there should be seriously harsh bans/penalties on the accusers.

Winston Payne

gerryo777 wrote: »

If you and cambo think that an old dinosaur like ferguson, after 25 years or whatever it is at united, has no influence on officials, your wrong.
It can't be proved and you lot would never admit to it, but it does happen.

Uh huh.

quad_red

Drumpot wrote: »

I've said it before, there is a wider problem, above racism that the football authorities continue to ignore. It's the aggressive nature of tribalism in the sport that's borderline violence.

Clatter burg has a family and a 16 month old child. WTF is wrong in a sport when dealing with insults (even racial) is more important the dealing with the culture of anger/violence towards officialls, managers stewards , fans and players?

Here's an idea, only the captain can talk to the ref during the game. If a ref is apporached after a game by a player/managed its an instant infraction. All clubs are annually regulated as to how they deal with abuse from the stands (throwing out and banning recurring fans).

These are just a few ideas that could be tried. I've been at many a united game when the police have loads of cameras outside monitoring trouble and there's nothing stopping the top clubs having cameras in every section inside the ground.

If its found that the allegations against the ref are untrue there should be some sort of repurcissins on Chelsea, particularly the players making the claim. This is a mans livelihood and he is now prob a bit fearful until this incident is cleared up or confirmed.

Nobody seems to care that stuff was thrown at united plauers, that a steward got inured and that the ref was repordedly violently approached after the game by a player, but a ref allegedly used in appropriate language so its not really that important!

If clattenbhrg is found guilty his career will be over and he will face the ramifications of his mistake. If he is found to be innocent there should be seriously harsh bans/penalties on the accusers.

+1

You physically assault someone on the pitch, you should face criminal charges.

You detestably libel someone on the pitch, whether it be in the 'heat of the moment' or what, you should face severe sanction and prosecution.

You use racist abuse at someone in the workplace (pitch/office whatever) then you should face severe workplace sanction.

Whatever happens here, this cannot be allowed to just fade away. If Clattenberg has a case to answer, they need to pursue it. If the players involved were just being spiteful thugs, then they should face the music.

cournioni

This thread is hilarious. I seem to remember United getting shafted at Stamford Bridge two years on the bounce by refereeing decisions and I don't remember any of this hysteria.

For anybody who thinks Gill will have an influence on referees for United games, there is a forum on boards for you here.

Ashbourne hoop

Unearthly wrote: »

I always take it as a complement when people think United keep getting all of the ref decisions. It means they are still seen as the best

I'm sure Liverpool fans old enough to remember have noticed the difference themselves

Exactly. Back in the day George Courtney used to get stick for giving decisions to Liverpool, all crap of course. Thankfully there was no message boards for people to spout their conspiracy theories on. Liverpool got more decisions because they had more of the play, pure and simple. Same with Utd now. Ivanovic had to go, Torres looked like a dive to me at first but after super slo-mo there was minimal contact which would have been hard for the ref to se and the goal was offside but wasn't an easy spot at all. It's all a conspiracy.....

PRAF

Drumpot wrote: »

I've said it before, there is a wider problem, above racism that the football authorities continue to ignore. It's the aggressive nature of tribalism in the sport that's borderline violence.

Clatter burg has a family and a 16 month old child. WTF is wrong in a sport when dealing with insults (even racial) is more important the dealing with the culture of anger/violence towards officialls, managers stewards , fans and players?

Here's an idea, only the captain can talk to the ref during the game. If a ref is apporached after a game by a player/managed its an instant infraction. All clubs are annually regulated as to how they deal with abuse from the stands (throwing out and banning recurring fans).

These are just a few ideas that could be tried. I've been at many a united game when the police have loads of cameras outside monitoring trouble and there's nothing stopping the top clubs having cameras in every section inside the ground.

If its found that the allegations against the ref are untrue there should be some sort of repurcissins on Chelsea, particularly the players making the claim. This is a mans livelihood and he is now prob a bit fearful until this incident is cleared up or confirmed.

Nobody seems to care that stuff was thrown at united plauers, that a steward got inured and that the ref was repordedly violently approached after the game by a player, but a ref allegedly used in appropriate language so its not really that important!

If clattenbhrg is found guilty his career will be over and he will face the ramifications of his mistake. If he is found to be innocent there should be seriously harsh bans/penalties on the accusers.

Great post. What is it about football that turns some normal human beings in pure thugs when they watch a game? It must be a mix of tribalism and mob rule. Education is one thing, but there also needs to be some enforcement by the top clubs to stamp this out.

There is something about the racism issue that trumps all other issues. I don't want to belittle any instances of racist comments which are of course disgraceful. However, a few recent cases have basically involved two footballers continually insulting, baiting, and goading each other until one of the players over stepped the mark with a racist comment. Punishing the guy who goes over the top is one thing, however, you cannot just ignore the other stuff IMHO

I'm not arguing for a goody two shoes approach here. What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be some basic level of respect between pros so that they don't spend all game threatening to break their leg, punch them in the face, sleep with their wife / mother / sister, etc.

I'd love it if there was an experiment where pros were mic'ed up for a game. Would be hilarious, and probably shocking too, to see what they say to each other

gerryo777

PRAF wrote: »

Great post. What is it about football that turns some normal human beings in pure thugs when they watch a game? It must be a mix of tribalism and mob rule. Education is one thing, but there also needs to be some enforcement by the top clubs to stamp this out.

There is something about the racism issue that trumps all other issues. I don't want to belittle any instances of racist comments which are of course disgraceful. However, a few recent cases have basically involved two footballers continually insulting, baiting, and goading each other until one of the players over stepped the mark with a racist comment. Punishing the guy who goes over the top is one thing, however, you cannot just ignore the other stuff IMHO

I'm not arguing for a goody two shoes approach here. What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be some basic level of respect between pros so that they don't spend all game threatening to break their leg, punch them in the face, sleep with their wife / mother / sister, etc.

I'd love it if there was an experiment where pros were mic'ed up for a game. Would be hilarious, and probably shocking too, to see what they say to each other

I think it was said after the Terry 'racism' case that what was being said on the field between two sets of players was a shame on the game and the people playing it.
Girlfriends, mothers, fathers, sexuality, family, creed, is all seen as fair game.
Mention that someone is a 'black cnut' and all these players who scream obscenities at each other for 90 mins all of a sudden get a 'moral compass' and are up in arms.
Ridiculous, overpaid twats, who are doing more to belittle and undermine the fight against racism than anyone else.

Quazzie

gerryo777 wrote: »

Mention that someone is a 'black cnut' and all these players who scream obscenities at each other for 90 mins all of a sudden get a 'moral compass' and are up in arms.

What I find amusing is the people making these claims are being represented by the "Black Lawyers Association". Considering most Lawyers are cnuts isn't that a bit satirical at best?

gerryo777

Quazzie wrote: »

What I find amusing is the people making these claims are being represented by the "Black Lawyers Association". Considering most Lawyers are cnuts isn't that a bit satirical at best?

And yer man from that crowd who was on sky sports last night was almost white!

DB10

It continues.

Arsene Wenger has hit out at referee Mike Dean after he sent off Jack Wilshere for a second bookable offence.

The midfielder had been in the midst of most of the action and was cautioned after 14 minutes for a challenge on Tom Cleverley.
And, after several other tackles, Wilshere was dismissed when he caught Patrice Evra with a late foul.

But Wenger believes the Manchester United full-back conned the official into red carding his player.
“It was very harsh,” moaned the Arsenal boss. “I was surprised that [the referee] gave him a second yellow card. He went for the ball and Patrice Evra made the maximum of it.
“What is unbelievable is how naïve the referee can be, when he says in front of the other players, ‘the next foul and you are out’, of course the next foul the players dive like they have been killed and that’s what happened.”

Wenger said: "We always have a penalty against us when we play Manchester United so we get used to it."

Hard to argue with the man really imo.

Will I Amnt

Silly challenge to make when your on a yellow nevermind been warned moments before for another challenge that should have been a second yellow.

Will I Amnt

Wenger said: "We always have a penalty against us when we play Manchester United so we get used to it."

Maybe stop giving them away...