Will the Third World ever sort themselves out?

NIMAN

I was listening to a piece on the Irish Famine on RTE Radio 1 tonight, and got to thinking about how we, as a country, went from that desperate state to relative prosperity in maybe 150 years.

Add to this the recent debates on funding the Third World, and how little or no progress seems to be made in their development. Are they any less dependent now than 50yrs ago? I would guess not.

We were 'Third World' at one stage but dragged ourselves out of it.

Will the Third World ever sort themselves out? Or will they always look for handouts?

Capt'n Midnight

Please post evidence that things have not changed in Africa.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2012/10/26/debunking-two-myths-about-sub-saharan-africa/

In 1975, six out of every seven countries in sub-Saharan Africa was a dictatorship. Now, there are only two autocratic countries on the continent, Swaziland and Eritrea.
...
So again, no-one is arguing that Africa is perfect or even that there are no chronic situations in Africa. But those who assert that money put into Africa is money wasted, because ‘clearly the continent is a basket case (possibly under the thumb of the West)’ again make their case devoid of all evidence.

.

andrew

As this report shows, I don't think it's correct to say no progress is being made (referring to the graphs near the beginning of the report.) India and China in particular are pulling millions out of poverty. As the realGDP graph shows, at the very least it appears LDC's aren't getting much worse, even if in general they're not getting a whole lot better. And as Capt'n mentions, a general move toward democracy seems to be a thing that's happening.

Markcheese

I reckon a lot of it is simple competition (not all though) we were surrounded by (so called advanced nations, which is also where our main export( people) went relatively easily to, and many came back from..so when our neighbours weren't knocking 7 bells out of each other, they were advancing dragging us along too..and buying our agricultural output.... Wouldn't say we're there yet as recent political and economic events point to ..(we voted them in...again and again)
If you're surrounded by corruption... Your standards are pretty low and most of the electorate will take a long time to be educated enough to demand more... And once being on the take is commonplace and institutionalised it becomes almost socially acceptable or at least expected.. Stopping development....
The eg of development would be Singapore ...

NIMAN

To be honest, India and China weren't in my mind when talking about countries that seem to be always begging. They are advancing, and the wealth is increasing, with less people in poverty.

Its the main African countries that seem to be making next to no progress.

catbear

Ireland did indeed come a long way since the famine but it has experienced periods of decline in that time. In 1900 Dublin was one of the most prosperous cities in Europe but the economic fortunes went into reverse again.

Ireland, in my opinion, continues to be a failed state in the same way some African counties are, where corruption is rewarded and there are no accepted local standards where someone is held to account. It's tribal.

If the numbers we lose to emigration were war casualties then we'd be a UN disaster zone, Brad and Angelina would have an Irish kid in their collection.

Edit to ad: Guyana, Suriname, Peru, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, Angola, Tanzania, Dem Rep of Congo, Mali, Mauretania, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Yemen, Somalia ....

and Ireland are the only countries that don't have postcodes. Looks like a lot of Africa has surpassed Ireland on that one.

Capt'n Midnight

NIMAN wrote: »

Its the main African countries that seem to be making next to no progress.

based on what evidence ?

you can argue that in the last 10 years we've made no progress

NIMAN

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

based on what evidence ?

you can argue that in the last 10 years we've made no progress

Ah come on. We don't have large numbers of our people starving.

We don't have dozens of international aid agencies trying to raise money to feed us.

Are you trying to say that there has been massive improvements in the poorest African nations being able to look after their own people without foreign assistance?

NIMAN

catbear wrote: »

Guyana, Suriname, Peru, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, Angola, Tanzania, Dem Rep of Congo, Mali, Mauretania, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Yemen, Somalia ....

and Ireland are the only countries that don't have postcodes.

You serious?

I'm talking about a nation being able to feed its own people and you are saying we are as bad off as them cos we don't have postcodes:rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

NIMAN wrote: »

Ah come on. We don't have large numbers of our people starving.

We don't have dozens of international aid agencies trying to raise money to feed us.

Are you trying to say that there has been massive improvements in the poorest African nations being able to look after their own people without foreign assistance?

the chuggers are making money for themselves here.

Look up the stats.

check the returns on investments in Africa over the last 10 years

check the mortality rates

Trade not aid.

Aid is only useful for emergencies and for pump priming. Even in the case of emergencies flying in food is a complete waste. In many parts you can just send people mobile phone credit so they can buy food locally - cuts out the middle men too.

Just like here where there was a huge flow of money from people who bought houses during the boom to the bondholders, the flow of money is still from the Third world to the West.

catbear

It's in the poverty industry interest to keep trade barriers up, what would they do if African development accelerated because of trade and not aid?