13 year old girl kills herself over online bullying??

Show Time

Without reading the thread i can guess that the Ask.fm was involved in some way shape or form??

It is a site that needs shutting down.


May the poor child RIP.

Equality

The poor kid. RIP

From personal experience I can tell you that once people start bullying you, they don't stop.

They only way to stop it is to remove yourself from the place where they are likely to be. The problem with that for a teenage girl is that all her pals are also on the internet site in question, so if she removes herself, it leaves her even more isolated and alone.

I feel sorry for the people who enage in the bullying, as well as for those who are the target of it. Those who engage in bullying harm themselves as well as others. A lot of solutions focus on the victim, whereas in actual fact I am coming to the conclusion that they should focus on the bully. It is only when the bully becomes aware of the impact of what they are doing, that you are approaching a solution.

I saw one manager cost her employer a small fortune. She bullied people to such an extent that some took months off work (fully paid, as this was the public service) to recover, others had a pattern of taking a sick day once or twice a month, when she was particularly bad. She seemed to be unaware of the impact or the trouble she was causing.

Haelium

woodoo wrote: »

The reporting of this sort of thing seems to be getting more and more common. I don't know what can be done about it but its very worrying. 13 is so so young.

FTFY

I'm not going to belittle the tragedy of teenage suicide, but the fact is that it's not a new thing. If it wasn't internet bullying it would be something else.

The worst thing that can come out of this is some anti-bullying law. Bullying is a social phenomenon which will exist among forever, trying to stop it only changes its form.

woodoo

I read one of the quotes from the bullies on the sun website. Nasty stuff.

goodie2shoes

i think people can be very cruel online.
they post/say things they would never dare in public or to your face.
they seem to use the anonymity to vent their darkest feelings.
people especially parents of children should always be very aware of this.

most of these websites are very poorly supervised, if at all. Boards.ie is a typical example. the crap it allows on this manure-fest is truly shocking imo.

for instance only on friday did a fellow poster on boards.ie post that he was delighted to see people suffer the misery of negative equity. when i questioned that he then went on to imply that i interfere with girls on buses.
i asked the Mods to remove this, as i thought it was appalling, but thus far they have failed to act.
they'll probably just ban me for even raising this.:(

Herb Powell

Madam_X wrote: »

I love the "If you're being bullied on a site, stop using it" comment - oh what a black and white world it would be if it were so simple. Kids get involved in these things because all their peers do; they're not going to just stop and become left out.

It is that simple. That's the main problem I have with the "CENSOR IT ALL, SHUT IT DOWN" people.

Facebook bullying? Stop adding every fucckwit who sends you a request!

I am NOT saying "the victim asks for it" because no one asks for, or should be subjected to bullying. But the thing about the internet is, you have a level of control over who can contact you, and how available you are to be contacted. It is not like they are in the same room with you, you can kick them out any time, or even better, lock them out completely.

But like you said, children don't have the sense to see this-"Kids get involved in these things because all their peers do; they're not going to just stop and become left out." They also take social things way more seriously than they should be taken They shouldn't really be using social networking sites, because things like this happen. So the problem here is the people, not the medium.

lukesmom

13 year olds shouldn't be on the Internet FACT! I don't care if all their friends are on it. I didn't have it growing up and I wasnt isolated. My eldest is 10 years old and a lot of his friends have Facebook accounts. Asking for trouble if you ask me they are left too open as prey for bullies, paedos etc

woodoo

Haelium wrote: »

FTFY

I'm not going to belittle the tragedy of teenage suicide, but the fact is that it's not a new thing. If it wasn't internet bullying it would be something else.

The worst thing that can come out of this is some anti-bullying law. Bullying is a social phenomenon which will exist among forever, trying to stop it only changes its form.

I suppose they could compare the numbers from now to 20 years ago and see. But i think it is rising. I think the net adds a terrible new dimension to bullying that wasn't a problem back then. I was never bullied thankfully but it was easy to avoid people you weren't comfortable with back then. If someone takes a spite on you now then you really can't get away from them.

Also i think far more people are able to bully or just be nasty to someone when they know they can do it anonymously.

petersburg2002

All this new technology was supposed to make our lives easier. But I've never seen teens so stressed as they are these days. Damn I miss the 1990s.

Madam_X

goodie2shoes wrote: »

most of these websites are very poorly supervised, if at all. Boards.ie is a typical example. the crap it allows on this manure-fest is truly shocking imo.

for instance only on friday did a fellow poster on boards.ie post that he was delighted to see people suffer the misery of negative equity. when i questioned that he then went on to imply that i interfere with girls on buses.
i asked the Mods to remove this, as i thought it was appalling, but thus far they have failed to act.
they'll probably just ban me for even raising this.:(

Kinda contradictory for you to say the modding is too lax here and then tack on a passive-aggressive comment about how they'd do something as draconian as ban you for saying the above. You've still said it - and have they banned you?
That was a sh1tty comment by that troll - pm one of the AH mods?

In fairness, you get people saying this place is too heavily moderated too.

Madam_X

lukesmom wrote: »

13 year olds shouldn't be on the Internet FACT! I don't care if all their friends are on it. I didn't have it growing up and I wasnt isolated. My eldest is 10 years old and a lot of his friends have Facebook accounts. Asking for trouble if you ask me they are left too open as prey for bullies, paedos etc

That's kinda like saying 30 years ago they shouldn't be allowed watch TV. It's pretty hard to avoid the net now - and it's so much more than chat forums; it's an educational tool also.
I agree a parent should supervise and limit their early teen's net use, but it's unrealistic to think they won't be exposed to any of the bad sides when they're not at home.

homerjay2005

Skylinehead wrote: »

And there's usually an underlying issue that's the root cause, not the bullying. But the media won't tell you that.

exactly, always something else to it, but the online bullying is always easy to blame.

surely the problem here is that parents should have more control over what she is doing? did any of her friends report this to her parents?

thats the sort of awareness that the government needs to get out to all teenagers and parents should stop them using social media until their problems get the care they need.

goodie2shoes

Madam_X wrote: »

Kinda contradictory for you to say the modding is too lax here and then tack on a passive-aggressive comment about how they'd do something as draconian as ban you for saying the above. You've still said it - and have they banned you?
That was a sh1tty comment by that troll - pm one of the AH mods?

In fairness, you get people saying this place is too heavily moderated too.

i really think the issue is they FAILED to remove the offending posting, even after i notified them (twice). they may still ban me for raising this, who knows? that's hardly the issue. i merely raised that to highlight the lack of consistency in policing.

children should not be allowed unsupervised online in places like this. i mean would you allow your kid to wander around a house, populated by all sorts of miscreants (and worse)? you have no way of knowing who/what you are actually communicating with. people with life experience can navigate safely when we unearth the odd low-life, but children just do not have the experience to do so safely.

123balltv

very sad I feel for kids nowadays I was at a party recently one of the kids
dressed up in his grannys clothes acting like a fool his Aunty took a photo and kept taunting him 'I'm gonna put this on facebook' :mad:
the kid was mortified he cried turned out for months he has been bullied on
fb kids are so worried now why does everything have to be broadcast on fb no privacy anymore

Overheal

Madam_X wrote: »

I love the "If you're being bullied on a site, stop using it" comment - oh what a black and white world it would be if it were so simple. Kids get involved in these things because all their peers do; they're not going to just stop and become left out.
As for kids being more vicious these days, nah, kids were vicious too when I was her age - 20 years ago - and would have been as bad if the net were around. That said, the net brings out the worst in some because of the anonymity. I don't think kids are worse though, I just think having the net at their disposal makes it appear so.
There's censorship all over the net, there has to be - why this notion it's not right? I don't think Askfm should be shut down (it's the little cuntts who are responsible not the site) but Jesus it should be heavily moderated.
And really... blaming the parents like. They can control their kid's online use at home but they can't keep the child at home all the time.

Correct. You also can't reasonably guarantee your child won't go have sex or smoke pot unless you watch them every second of the day. My oh my what ever is a parent to do?

Parenting is a lot more than anally retentive supervision.

If you want to be the parent who has accepted that your daughter might try to have sex or smoke pot or go online, then you have the responsibility to educate her about the gravity of her decisions. At that point it's up to her if she wants to carry on with it.

I'm sorry for their loss, but the parents have some responsibility in the matter.

james142

I'm sick of these stories. I absolutly hate bullying but I feel that people who commit suicide are selfish. (although they probably don't mean it)

I can't login to facebook anymore without seeing dozens of posts from people claiming they would have being by the persons side yet they wouldn't have given a damn if she was still alive.

R.I.P to the girl and im sorry for the families loss but these stories do my head in in a way.

Madam_X

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i really think the issue is they FAILED to remove the offending posting, even after i notified them (twice). they may still ban me for raising this, who knows? that's hardly the issue. i merely raised that to highlight the lack of consistency in policing.

children should not be allowed unsupervised online in places like this. i mean would you allow your kid to wander around a house, populated by all sorts of miscreants (and worse)? you have no way of knowing who/what you are actually communicating with. people with life experience can navigate safely when we unearth the odd low-life, but children just do not have the experience to do so safely.

They won't ban you.

Unfortunately though, no matter how strictly parents police their child's internet use, it's not enough. Moderation IMO needs to be stepped up on sites where kids will converge in packs. An adult will just walk away/not take it seriously, but a hormonal teen can't be expected to think like that. They're only learning about life.

shruikan2553

Overheal wrote: »

She was 13, not 23. There is a large chasm of difference in the level of maturity and experience.

If 13 year old girls are able to put affects and text into photos I'm sure they know how to use a computer a little bit, enough to change account settings. There was a guy who started threatening, so I blocked him and reported him. Why cant they do this? The bullying might not go away but at least it limits it.

Madam_X wrote: »

I love the "If you're being bullied on a site, stop using it" comment - oh what a black and white world it would be if it were so simple. Kids get involved in these things because all their peers do; they're not going to just stop and become left out.

If this was over something like facebook then I would agree they would want to keep it to be like their friends but this is a website where you ask people questions, you dont even need an account to ask, just to receive questions. What would they be left out of in this case?

We never received any education regarding the internet, the closest to computers we got was doing the ECDL course in transition year. I have no idea why there is zero mention of this in schools when its something everyone has access to. Explain IPs can be tracked so you arent as anonymous as you think and that there are ways to block people.

Madam_X

All their pals having an Askfm account, it being a regular talking point among them.

I'd imagine schools are introducing education re the internet. It's a tough one.

Blisterman

Banning these sites is a knee jerk reaction that would have no effect on bullying. You can't stop teenagers using the internet any more than you can stop them drinking, having sex or watching violent movies.

The best approach is to try and educate kids in a two pronged approach, that
A: Bullying online can have serious consequences and is not in any way acceptable
and
B: They shouldn't take things idiots say online personally. Sticks and stone etc.

mikom

petersburg2002 wrote: »

All this new technology was supposed to make our lives easier. But I've never seen teens so stressed as they are these days.

You must have missed out on the Victorian Chimney sweeps.

lertsnim

Halloran springs wrote: »

I say try them as adults for manslaughter

Indeed.

KyussBishop

Madam_X wrote: »

There's censorship all over the net, there has to be - why this notion it's not right? I don't think Askfm should be shut down (it's the little cuntts who are responsible not the site) but Jesus it should be heavily moderated.

It's a fair argument that the owners should moderate the site (and they should), it just shouldn't be legally enforced that they must, as that has enormous unseen knock-on effects on the entire Internet.

Kensington wrote:

Again, you logically cannot censor an anonymous entity since they have/had no claim to free speech to begin with.

That's not true, there is no precondition on the right to free speech, which requires you to identify yourself (and there shouldn't be either).

Kensington wrote:

One of the core terms right here on boards.ie is that you do not have any claim or right to free speech. Why? Because boards are legally liable for everything which is published on it's site.

The problem with the likes of ask.fm is that you have people posting behind the cloak of anonymity, fully OK'd by the very site publishing said content freely. No moderation, no filtering - no responsibility. Worse, it's very difficult to hold a site like this accountable for anything at present or to get them to remove anything which could be considered bullying, harassing or lible in nature. And you honestly think that's perfectly fine?

I think it's fine to pursue the site in its country of origin, based on laws there, but not to start censoring it with a blocklist here.

You have to be very careful of the kind of laws you put in place regarding this stuff, because it is a practical impossibility to censor and moderate everything on the Internet, and it's an extremely fine line between genuinely clamping down on reprehensible activity, and handing government the tools to create ever-expanding censorship on the Internet.


For example: It is possible to setup a website as a service on Tor, and because of the way Tor works this is literally impossible to censor (and everyone who accesses the site is inherently 100% anonymous/untraceable), unless you block Tor itself.

As average Internet bandwidth increases, Tor is going to become used a lot more like this, and there will be Ask.fm type sites there too; to censor Tor though, you have to completely lock-down the Internet, which is quite a draconian amount of censorship that is inherently an enormous threat.


I understand the reasoning behind arguments for censoring this site, but doing that has really huge implications that people advocating it don't realize.

af_thefragile

Blisterman wrote: »

Banning these sites is a knee jerk reaction that would have no effect on bullying. You can't stop teenagers using the internet any more than you can stop them drinking, having sex or watching violent movies.

The best approach is to try and educate kids in a two pronged approach, that
A: Bullying online can have serious consequences and is not in any way acceptable
and
B: They shouldn't take things idiots say online personally. Sticks and stone etc.

I disagree with that.

It needs to be the parent's responsibility to look after their kids and what their kids do. Anyone whose under 16yrs of age is very vulnerable and impressionable, you cannot leave such a person alone on the internet. You cannot make a 13yr old understand the dangers of the internet and neither can you make them immune to what people say about them on the internet.
You have grown up adults on internet forums who get all worked up over things other people say about them, how do you expect kids won't get affected by what other people say to them on the internet?

I fail to agree with the notion that you can't stop kids go drinking, have sex etc. When I was a kid I never went around drinking and screwing girls. I parents were pretty strict with where I went, what I was doing etc. and I don't blame them for it. Once I grew up after around I was 16yrs old, my parents became more relaxed and gave me more freedom.

I don't agree with the liberal view of you should educate kids and then let them do whatever they want. It doesn't work because they're kids! Kids will never be able to fully understand what's good or bad for them. They're just not old and mature enough for that. Parents need to become more strict with their kids and monitor more closely what their kids are doing. Its a dangerous world out there. If you don't monitor your kids, they will fall into bad company, get exploited and then you end up with kids like these who get bullied to the point of destruction or on the other end you end up with kids who become the violent vicious bullies, who on most occasions will grow up to become violent thugs and gang members.

Madam_X

Halloran springs wrote: »

I say try them as adults for manslaughter

It's being pointed out repeatedly on this thread that adolescents are different people to when they're adults. Trying an adult for what they did as a kid is a crazy idea. Punish them at the time, not in the future.

Blisterman

You can ban them from using the internet at home, but then they're just going to use it at friend's houses.

You ban them going to friends houses, they'll use their friend's smart phones at school. etc.

I'm not saying people should let kids do what they want, just that unless you're gonna watch them 24/7, then you can't control everything they do.

Halloran springs

Madam_X wrote: »

It's being pointed out repeatedly on this thread that adolescents are different people to when they're adults. Trying an adult for what they did as a kid is a crazy idea. Punish them at the time, not in the future.

They know exactly what they're doing and know it's wrong. They have the power to literally drive people to death. A few years in st pats and they won't be so quick to torment people online again.

el dude

Why are parent letting their kids go online without proper supervision? The internet is full of horrible stuff and brings out the very worst in people. Those online chat rooms where you talk to strangers are especially horrible places.

Overheal

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If 13 year old girls are able to put affects and text into photos I'm sure they know how to use a computer a little bit, enough to change account settings. There was a guy who started threatening, so I blocked him and reported him. Why cant they do this? The bullying might not go away but at least it limits it.

I have worked in computer retail for nineteen months: do not ever assume that people of any age or demographic know wtf they are doing on a computer.

Madam_X

Halloran springs wrote: »

They know exactly what they're doing and know it's wrong. They have the power to literally drive people to death. A few years in st pats and they won't be so quick to torment people online again.

I know they realise it's wrong, but punishment years after they did it?

Overheal

People need to read up on the statute of limitations.

af_thefragile

Blisterman wrote: »

You can ban them from using the internet at home, but then they're just going to use it at friend's houses.

You ban them going to friends houses, they'll use their friend's smart phones at school. etc.

I'm not saying people should let kids do what they want, just that unless you're gonna watch them 24/7, then you can't control everything they do.

You don't ban your kid from using the internet. You just allow them to use it for only a certain amount of time under supervision. Banning things rarely work.

And as a parent you need to be aware of what your kid is upto when they're at their friend's place. Again we're talking about kid's here. Not young adults. Anyone whose under 16-17yrs of age is a kid. You need to aware of what your kids have been upto daily, you need to know who their friends are, who they're hanging around with, whom they're texting to on their phone etc.
Its not invading their privacy because once again they're kids! They're not young adults who are mature enough and may need some private space. Kids need to be protected from the harmful elements out there because if you don't then events like this can take place.

Kids don't need smartphones. They don't even need cell phones but if you still feel the need to get them a phone, then it should be a simple phone. Bullying doesn't happen once a week. Bullying is something that happens constantly on a daily basis. If the only time your kid gets to go onto internet without supervision is on their friend's smartphone or for a while on the computer at their friend's place, that's not going to be enough internet exposure for the kid to be bullied on the internet.

The kids who get bullied on the internet are the ones who spend a good amount of time daily on the internet without any parental supervision. If you only occasionally get on the internet, you won't be spending enough time on it to get bullied.

MaroonAndGreen

dont want to sound like a prick but every teen suicide anymore seems to be instantly linked to online bullying, often wrongly

kerry4sam

For someone at the extremely young age of 13 to have to endure such heartache and hurt, my Heart goes out to them. For that young child to feel she had to way or resolving this only to take her own life is cruel. He entire life ahead of her - now taken. Stolen even! Her life was stolen from her from the behaviour and antics of others and their immaturity and inability to understand the impact of their ways. As for adults intervening, some adults can even be worse with all forms of bullying!

I'm not quite sure how this can be prevented in the future, especially with a quiet sole who can't or won't confront for whatever reasons, or bring the situation to the attention of someone who may be able to assist.

I cannot comprehend what that young girl was going through emotionally before she took her own life, the psychological abuse she endured, the now heartache of her family, due to bullying behaviour.

Rest In Peace Erin. You deserve it! Let Little Angels Robed In White, Carry You Home In Peace

Madam_X

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

dont want to sound like a prick but every teen suicide anymore seems to be instantly linked to online bullying, often wrongly

Often wrongly? Like when?

I agree though that it may not just be online harassment alone. Could be deeper issues at play but the bullying finally pushing these poor kids over the edge.

woodoo

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

dont want to sound like a prick but every teen suicide anymore seems to be instantly linked to online bullying, often wrongly

I had a read through that girls ask.fm page there and she talks about bullying quite a bit in it. Some of the crap said to her was horrible. It came to a head at the weekend by the looks of it and she killed herself.

RED PASSION

kerry4sam wrote: »

For someone at the extremely young age of 13 to have to endure such heartache and hurt, my Heart goes out to them. For that young child to feel she had to way or resolving this only to take her own life is cruel. He entire life ahead of her - now taken. Stolen even! Her life was stolen from her from the behaviour and antics of others and their immaturity and inability to understand the impact of their ways. As for adults intervening, some adults can even be worse with all forms of bullying!

I'm not quite sure how this can be prevented in the future, especially with a quiet sole who can't or won't confront for whatever reasons, or bring the situation to the attention of someone who may be able to assist.

I cannot comprehend what that young girl was going through emotionally before she took her own life, the psychological abuse she endured, the now heartache of her family, due to bullying behaviour.

Rest In Peace Erin. You deserve it! Let Little Angels Robed In White, Carry You Home In Peace

quite soul

Siuin

RED PASSION wrote: »

quite soul

*quiet soul

SuperInfinity

Kids could always be extremely cruel to each other, this is not a new thing.

If the girl commits suicide it's not their fault.

narwhalthe

That is awful. Truly horrific.

I guess as the world and technology advances so do other things, like bullying. It's sad really.

UCDVet

Maybe children are too young to have unrestricted access to the largely unsupervised internet? Many sites expressly disallow anyone under the age of 13 from creating an account; and that's just the faceless websites. Parents should have a much better understanding of how sensitive/impressionable their child is.

There are endless ways of being social online while still preventing other from interacting with your child. Parents can block, filter, screen comments/messages/e-mail that would be sent to their children. Or, you know, simply NOT give them internet access. I'm pretty sure quite a few generations were born, lived, and died without ever twitting what they had for lunch.

Real-life bullying seems lot more difficult to stop.

Gee_G

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Kids could always be extremely cruel to each other, this is not a new thing.

If the girl commits suicide it's not their fault.

Who's fault is it then??

SuperInfinity

Gee_G wrote: »

Who's fault is it then??

Who said there has to be someone at fault for everything bad that happens? It may be noone's direct fault. I think there are a lot of things wrong with the world and society, preventing people from expressing themselves isn't going to solve anything, it will just mean that others don't know what they really think.

Gee_G

Oh I absolutely agree with that but that girl was being verbally and physically abused by these people. She didn't just decide to take her own life. She was obviously in a very bad place, thought there was no escaping them and saw this as her only way out. And it's not their fault?

UCDVet

Gee_G wrote: »

Who's fault is it then??

The parents.

lukesmom

Madam_X wrote: »

That's kinda like saying 30 years ago they shouldn't be allowed watch TV. It's pretty hard to avoid the net now - and it's so much more than chat forums; it's an educational tool also.
I agree a parent should supervise and limit their early teen's net use, but it's unrealistic to think they won't be exposed to any of the bad sides when they're not at home.

No it's not. You can't compare the affects of tv 30 years ago to the affects of the internet!

Tv 30 years ago was pretty harmless and when the time was up the programmes were over!
These social networking sites are the platform for a 24 hour non stop open psychological minefield that has the capability of causing extreme harm and danger to our kids/teens. Keyboard warriors never let up, they run in packs and are incredibly cruel with their words. It is causing some young teens to end their lives. Something's got to give.

mikom

lukesmom wrote: »

No it's not. You can't compare the affects of tv 30 years ago to the affects of the internet!

Tv 30 years ago was pretty harmless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neCP_xu18k8

Irishwolff

I think the internet can be a horrendous place for a young child or for a mind that is still in development. I have seen some scary crap on the internet, if I was a child looking at that stuff it would effect my mind. At least as an adult you can just shrug it off and you know when a person is been a dickhead. But when your young and your personality is still developing. You are vunerable to this stuff and I really do believe, should be protected from all the bad that comes with the internet. Unfortunately its hard to filter out the bad stuff from the good stuff on the internet. And its near impossible to predetermine a perons age who is browsing the web. At the moment its abit like the wild wild west.
As an after thought, it would have been good to have a moderator for that site, reading the comments before they were posted. Especially if they were cases in the past of bullying. That would of been one way to filter that paticualr site. Another way, would of been tracking IP addresses and banning users who were trying to post degrading comments.
Anyways...
RIP to this young girl

gozunda

The discussion that the young girls death has engendered sadly is very valuable however from the discussion I believe there are just two important considerations that this incident and other recent bullying cases which may help prevent this type of tragedy

A. Criminalise bullying behaviour
B. Let both adults and children know that such behaviour will have very serious legal consequences

Then and only then will such behaviour become controllable ....

woodoo

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Who said there has to be someone at fault for everything bad that happens? It may be noone's direct fault. I think there are a lot of things wrong with the world and society, preventing people from expressing themselves isn't going to solve anything, it will just mean that others don't know what they really think.

What? surely you are not saying that these girls saying those awful things to her were just saying what they really think and thats OK. Those bullies had a large part to play in Erin's suicide imo.