Could someone give me a summary of the current state of the Irish economy?

Mr. Loverman

Hi all

I left Ireland nearly 18 months ago.

When I left there was a desperate air of doom and gloom, and I got the feeling we were returning to something similar to the 80's emigration culture.

Have things like the Government deficit, the jobs market, the retail market, the housing market, etc., improved over the past 18 months?

Is emigration increasing or decreasing?

Any opinions appreciated.

Thanks.

Vego

Summary ......Its ****ed

Mr. Loverman

Things are better or worse?

MMAGirl

Things are great if you have a job.
Things are sh1t if you have no job.
People all want some other group to pay more taxes or have salary cuts, but not their own group.
Normal Ireland really.

I nearly forget. Everyone in Ireland who is on the internet is now a genius economist. Amazing really.
Who would have thought all you needed was a keyboard to learn this great skill.

And we all assume now that we know what everyone elses job entails. That we can do their job better than them. And that they have such an easy job that they are paid too much - whatever the job or pay.

Yes, normal Ireland really.

kodoherty93

The budget is slightly better under control. But they have done little to reduce no cuts to welfare or more jobs

However Dublins rents haven't risen rapidly as people are renting putinng off buying and half of brazil is studying English in Ireland now. ( you can get a visa to study English in Ireland no problem unlike the uk, plus in Ireland you work on a study visa where you can't Do that in the uk)

However the government has borrowed money without the IMF cheaper than Italy or Spain. And so major Irish companies like Kerry group and paddy power have announced 1,400 jobs between them. Also multinationals are employing again but they only want non-English speaking

Mr. teddywinkles

MMAGirl wrote: »

Things are great if you have a job.
Things are sh1t if you have no job.
People all want some other group to pay more taxes or have salary cuts, but not their own group.
Normal Ireland really.

I nearly forget. Everyone in Ireland who is on the internet is now a genius economist. Amazing really.
Who would have thought all you needed was a keyboard to learn this great skill.

And we all assume now that we know what everyone elses job entails. That we can do their job better than them. And that they have such an easy job that they are paid too much - whatever the job or pay.

Yes, normal Ireland really.

Sad to admit but so true. The Irish attitute has changed for the worse in general especially the job part.
I find it very interesting that people assume that alot of this is just property crash thou.
Most people that I talk to think Ireland was the industrial hub of the world pre boom or false boom wotever.
The sad fact is it wasn't
This so called golobaization reference too has A MASSIVE impact on trade
and jobs too.
You cannot just mix different strenght ecomonys and use the same
economic and trade policies for all without repercussions.
Like trying to develop the third world overnight (ie cheaper labour, cheaper resources etc) and stack this against the developed world.
Most politicans dont see this cause there paid x salary no matter wot happens.
Its the little guy it affects sadly.

djpbarry

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

When I left there was a desperate air of doom and gloom...

I left Ireland about 2 years ago, but whenever I return, there still seems to an air of doom and gloom about the place. But, things are not nearly as bad as people like to think they are.

kodoherty93 wrote: »

The budget is slightly better under control. But they have done little to reduce no cuts to welfare or more jobs

The best thing the government could do in terms of job creation is make it easier for non-EU citizens to obtain work permits. But, that would be a massively unpopular move, so it will never happen.

kodoherty93 wrote: »

...you can get a visa to study English in Ireland no problem unlike the uk, plus in Ireland you work on a study visa where you can't Do that in the uk.

As far as I am aware, student visas for non-EU citizens are virtually identical in the UK & Ireland.

tara73

djpbarry wrote: »

The best thing the government could do in terms of job creation is make it easier for non-EU citizens to obtain work permits. But, that would be a massively unpopular move, so it will never happen.

and how would that help the many irish qualified unemployed people to get work?

fly_agaric

tara73 wrote: »

and how would that help the many irish qualified unemployed people to get work?

You're just not seeing it as those who view the world through an economic lens do. When they take up a job + live in Ireland the "people" are now Irish economic production and consumption units, doesn't matter if they came from Mars originally!

MMAGirl

fly_agaric wrote: »

You're just not seeing it as those who view the world through an economic lens do. When they take up a job + live in Ireland the "people" are now Irish economic production and consumption units, doesn't matter if they came from Mars originally!

Unless they are bringing them in from overseas because they will work for less, putting an Irish person who could have done the job on the dole.

Look at IT.
Plenty of people qualified to do the jobs.
Companies constantly cry about not being able to find people.
Lobby the govt to allow them to bring in IT people from overseas.

What they really mean is that we dont want to pay people so lets pretend there is a shortage here and then we can ship more people in to do those jobs cheaper.

househero

Ireland relies on the global economy more than any other European country and as such some of the biggest decisions and affects are outside the control of any Irish person.

IF Obama is reelected we are in big trouble, the fiscal cliff (Google it) is imminent. Obama wants foreign American companies to pay American corporate tax. Our FDI companies which represent a large proportion of people employed in Irish manufacturing and all supported professional services will be at great risk of being relocated to the east or even back to America.

Americas economy for the last 4 months has shrunk to 2011 levels from13500 to 13000 on the Dow indicies.

The Asian economies including the BRIC'S have suffered a slowdown in production, Australia is suffering from a reduction in demand for its raw material exports (a big deal for a country with a relatively small population)

Germany has cut its 2012 growth forecast to 1% hardly strong performance, Spain is looking to fund its government activities this week, Italy and Greece still has not been addressed.

Ireland would greatly benefit from separating its banking debt from its sovereign debt, if we did that we would be a particularly strong EU country, but what the world has in store for us is a different matter.

We will have a very good idea on the future of Ireland's economy by the end of November.

tara73

fly_agaric wrote: »

You're just not seeing it as those who view the world through an economic lens do. When they take up a job + live in Ireland the "people" are now Irish economic production and consumption units, doesn't matter if they came from Mars originally!

sorry to be that blunt, but you can't seem to see beyond your simple economic model which obviously is the one economic model based on consumption.

do you know there are other economic models than this?
and guess what, they might function even better and have a sense of sustainability.:eek:
means having high skilled own population which produce their own stuff or having valuable knowledge which nobody else has and therefore being competitive.

what you are favourising is exact the economic model which existed during our all beloved boom times and brought this mess to Ireland and many other parts of the world.
hey, let some others do the work and consume, and we are sitting on our arses and collect the money from our foreign workers and can consume even more.
and besides, you are aware that this money didn't exist in values, it was borrowed fake money??

gosh, absolutely nothing learned. shocking.

djpbarry

tara73 wrote: »

and how would that help the many irish qualified unemployed people to get work?

Jobs create jobs. There are a number of companies in Ireland who are struggling to fill positions in the IT and software development sectors:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0614/1224317871488.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0426/1224315187601.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/employment/tech-sector-in-skills-shortage-crisis

And I’m not the first to suggest attracting overseas workers to fill those gaps:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0426/1224315193979.html

MMAGirl wrote: »

Look at IT.
Plenty of people qualified to do the jobs.

Are there? So why are so many vacancies going unfilled? Go have a look at Google or Microsoft for example – they have a whole bunch of jobs (not just tech jobs) advertised at present. Have a look on Monster for software development roles – you’ll find hundreds (although I’m inclined to take ads from agencies with a pinch of salt).

MMAGirl

djpbarry wrote: »

Jobs create jobs. There are a number of companies in Ireland who are struggling to fill positions in the IT and software development sectors:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0614/1224317871488.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0426/1224315187601.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/employment/tech-sector-in-skills-shortage-crisis

And I’m not the first to suggest attracting overseas workers to fill those gaps:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0426/1224315193979.html
Are there? So why are so many vacancies going unfilled? Go have a look at Google or Microsoft for example – they have a whole bunch of jobs (not just tech jobs) advertised at present. Have a look on Monster for software development roles – you’ll find hundreds (although I’m inclined to take ads from agencies with a pinch of salt).

Well from experience in my company, we want more skills for less money and we cant get people. If we paid the correct money for the skills we are looking for then we would get them. Yet our public line is that we cant get people, please bring in people from outside. And the CEO of the company is forever on to any influential people lobbying. This is a very profitable company, but that doesnt stop us wanting to make more profit.

djpbarry

MMAGirl wrote: »

Well from experience in my company, we want more skills for less money and we cant get people. If we paid the correct money for the skills we are looking for then we would get them.

Get them from where? Other companies or the dole queues?

MMAGirl

djpbarry wrote: »

Get them from where? Other companies or the dole queues?

Ah now if you cant answer that question yourself at this point I just give up.

djpbarry

MMAGirl wrote: »

Ah now if you cant answer that question yourself at this point I just give up.

It's a perfectly reasonable question, because I have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest there are large numbers of unemployed software developers in Ireland.

I've heard the "companies expect too much for too little" argument before and I'm not really buying it - generally speaking, the salaries associated with software development in Ireland are very good:

http://jobsearch.monster.ie/jobs/IT-Software-Development+Software-System-Architecture+IT-Software-Development+Software-Web-Development_4747?cy=ie

Nobody is going to convince me that someone on welfare is turning down those kind of salaries.

Thespoofer

Hi OP just a quick question ( 3 actually ), where did you go to and are you considering heading back ? and if yes why ?

househero

djpbarry wrote: »

Jobs create jobs.

And I’m not the first to suggest attracting overseas workers to fill those gaps:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0426/1224315193979.html
Are there? So why are so many vacancies going unfilled? Go have a look at Google or Microsoft for example – they have a whole bunch of jobs (not just tech jobs) advertised at present. Have a look on Monster for software development roles – you’ll find hundreds (although I’m inclined to take ads from agencies with a pinch of salt).

This post has Been pulled way off topic. Its probably best not to borrow ideas from the tabloids, they simplify problems to reaffirm their readers own often misguided opinions.

MMA makes a good point about what companies are prepared to pay to get the job done (less, and they will always want to pay less then the going rate)

The original question was if things are better than 18 months ago, the answer is not yet, but they might pick up soon, or dive in to something worse if Obama is reelected and Ireland does not manage to separate its banking debt from the states financial liability. BUT even if things get better tomorrow, it will take a minimum of 6 months to materialise in the housing and jobs sector.

djpbarry

househero wrote: »

Its probably best not to borrow ideas from the tabloids, they simplify problems to reaffirm their readers own often misguided opinions.

In that case, you should have absolutely no trouble poking holes in the theory. I'll wait.

househero wrote: »

MMA makes a good point about what companies are prepared to pay to get the job done (less, and they will always want to pay less then the going rate)

And employees will always want more. So what?

househero

djpbarry wrote: »

In that case, you should have absolutely no trouble poking holes in the theory. I'll wait.
And employees will always want more. So what?

Come on then sweetheart post up your theory, unless of course you think a countries economy can be fixed with one enlightened sentence

What was it you said...
The best thing the government could do in terms of job creation is make it easier for non-EU citizens to obtain work permits.

Is that right? How does this work then.



By the way I am not happy about the op's thread being hijacked by a mod of all people.

djpbarry

househero wrote: »

...unless of course you think a countries economy can be fixed with one enlightened sentence

Who said anything about fixing the economy?

househero wrote: »

What was it you said...
The best thing the government could do in terms of job creation is make it easier for non-EU citizens to obtain work permits.

Is that right? How does this work then.

I said it was the best thing the government could in terms of job creation - I never said it would cure all ills.

All the evidence suggests that there is a serious shortage of technically literate people in the Irish workforce (not just the Irish workforce it has to be said). This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, given that over the last 10-15 years, demand for computer science and software engineering courses (for example) at third-level was far outstripped by demand for business, arts and humanities courses. The obvious consequence of this has been evident for years:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0102/cpl-business.html

So we now have a situation where Ireland has a whole bunch of positions requiring a certain skill set but doesn’t have the people to fill those positions. So we either leave those positions vacant, which is in nobody’s interest, or we allow immigrants to fill them.

Unless of course I’m wrong and there are hundreds (or even thousands) of unemployed computer science and software development graduates in Ireland. But given the salaries on offer for the vacant positions, I find it pretty hard to believe there’s a labour surplus.

househero

djpbarry wrote: »

Who said anything about fixing the economy?
I said it was the best thing the government could in terms of job creation - I never said it would cure all ills.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0102/cpl-business.html

So we now have a situation where Ireland has a whole bunch of positions requiring a certain skill set but doesn’t have the people to fill those positions. So we either leave those positions vacant, which is in nobody’s interest, or we allow immigrants to fill them.

The ops question is about the economy and unless Rte news or the Irish press hasn't explained how the employment market works yet, ireland needs to address the economic issues to solve the unemployment problem, not the other way around as your simple model suggests.


If I do take your simple model on face value, I would suggest that a major policy change by the government would be better directed to EMPLOY the people we HAVE instead of looking for people we dont, that makes more sense doesn't it?

Your idea is to find foreign people to fill Irish jobs
A better idea would be to find foreign (or local) business to employ the skilled people we already have.

Getting a foreign business to establish in Ireland is easier than getting a large volume of people to move here. The American manufacturers based in Ireland are proof of this. Irish service business's tax system is prohibitive, our workforce is skilled but our tax system favors unskilled/semi skilled manufacturing companies instead of export service business's.
Now that we have addressed your misguided solution can we please get back to the original question.

djpbarry

househero wrote: »

ireland needs to address the economic issues to solve the unemployment problem

What “economic issues” need to be addressed to solve the unemployment problem?

househero wrote: »

Your idea is to find foreign people to fill Irish jobs

No, my idea is to fill existing vacancies. You’re suggesting we leave those positions unfilled?

househero wrote: »

A better idea would be to find foreign (or local) business to employ the skilled people we already have.

So what kind of “skilled people” are we talking about here? Because all the evidence I have seen suggests that the overwhelming majority of unemployed people in Ireland have relatively few qualifications. Of course, qualifications and skills are not the same thing, but given that a significant chunk of Ireland’s unemployed are men previously employed in construction, I’m curious to know what foreign or local businesses you want to incentivise to employ these people? Is Ireland to have another construction boom?

Dob74

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Hi all

I left Ireland nearly 18 months ago.

When I left there was a desperate air of doom and gloom, and I got the feeling we were returning to something similar to the 80's emigration culture.

Have things like the Government deficit, the jobs market, the retail market, the housing market, etc., improved over the past 18 months?

Is emigration increasing or decreasing?

Any opinions appreciated.

Thanks.

Things are still bad if not worse.
Job market is very poor. Only low paying jobs 25 to 30k if you can get one.
Rents have not decreased, while esb and gas have increased.
If you overlooking to buy a house you may get s good deal. But they look to be to continuing to fall. So if you wait til they announce the property tax they will probably fall even further. Don't believe the bull in the indo prices are not giving to increase.
Petrol is 1.60 a litre. So driving commuting, Sunday spins are where all your extra money will go if you have any left over.
Emigration is all my work colleagues talk about. A lot less under 40 Irish around.
Everyone I know who has chance to leave has left. IT is the only sector hiring with decent pay.
Things are looking bleek. If this was a rerun of the 80's. Id say it is 1988.
5 years til things pick up

househero

djpbarry wrote: »

What “economic issues” need to be addressed to solve the unemployment problem?
No, my idea is to fill existing vacancies. You’re suggesting we leave those positions unfilled?
So what kind of “skilled people” are we talking about here? Because all the evidence I have seen suggests that the overwhelming majority of unemployed people in Ireland have relatively few qualifications. Of course, qualifications and skills are not the same thing, but given that a significant chunk of Ireland’s unemployed are men previously employed in construction, I’m curious to know what foreign or local businesses you want to incentivise to employ these people? Is Ireland to have another construction boom?

I will keep things simple. The economic issue is that unemployed people can not find work. Your ignorance of Ireland's economic issues are very telling of the level of knowledge you possess on the subject but still feel the right to wade in with your tabloid regurgitated miracle cure.

What evidence to the qualifications of unemployed people are you referring to? Please do not quote yet another tabloid article or popular news TV show. Because the vast majority of unemployed people in Ireland and Europe for that matter are under 25, familiar with the new services economy and are highly qualified, more qualified than any Irish generation that has come before them.

Your solution ignores the economy as a whole and the issue of Ireland's mass unemployment all together. You are ignorant of so many macro economic factors and have come to painfully simplistic solutions to problems you have not quite realized just how complicated are, even in principle never mind about the practical implications. If it was as simple as you make out I shouldn't have bothered with university, I could have just read your 1 line solution to Ireland's problems.

You are suggesting Ireland's issue is that we have loads of jobs that Irish people can't do, so we need foreign workers to come and do the jobs for us. Would that not just leave the (seasonably adjusted) 15% currently unemployed, unemployed forever?

The principles of your solution to reduce Irelands unemployment rate is flawed on a macro and even the most simple stripped down level. If you choose to comment on the economy I would suggest you withhold until you further develop your knowledge on the subject and more to the point don't hijack a thread to fit your own answer next time.

Mr. Loverman

Thank you for the replies everyone.

Thespoofer wrote: »

Hi OP just a quick question ( 3 actually ), where did you go to and are you considering heading back ? and if yes why ?

I live in China and I am not coming back to Ireland for a long time, if ever. I just feel a bit out of the loop (when I lived in Ireland I loved all the economics stuff) so needed an update. I am sad to hear things are worse overall.

djpbarry

househero wrote: »

I will keep things simple. The economic issue is that unemployed people can not find work.

I see. So when you said...

househero wrote: »

ireland needs to address the economic issues to solve the unemployment problem

...what you meant was, “ireland needs to address the fact that unemployed people cannot find work to solve the unemployment problem”. You're not wrong there.

househero wrote: »

What evidence to the qualifications of unemployed people are you referring to?

Have a look at this report from the Central Statistics Office. I’ll refer you to Table 9, which shows that, as of Q1 2011, over 60% of unemployed people in Ireland had no form of post-leaving cert qualifications whatsoever.

househero wrote: »

Because the vast majority of unemployed people in Ireland and Europe for that matter are under 25...

Nope. According to the latest Quarterly National Household Survey, almost 80% of unemployed people in Ireland are over 25 (Table 8a):

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/labourmarket/2012/qnhs_q22012.pdf

househero wrote: »

...familiar with the new services economy and are highly qualified...

As of June 2011, 64% of 20-24 year olds in Ireland had no post-leaving cert qualifications (Table 2):

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/education/2011/educationalattainment2011.pdf

househero wrote: »

Your solution ignores the economy as a whole and the issue of Ireland's mass unemployment all together. You are ignorant of so many macro economic factors...

Such as?

househero wrote: »

...and have come to painfully simplistic solutions to problems you have not quite realized just how complicated are...

There are job vacancies. Those vacancies need to be filled. That’s a pretty simple solution to a pretty simple problem.

househero wrote: »

You are suggesting Ireland's issue is that we have loads of jobs that Irish people can't do...

No, that’s not exactly what I said. What I said was there are a bunch of jobs available in Ireland, but, based on the available evidence, the vast majority of unemployed people in Ireland do not possess the necessary skills to fill those jobs. The only obvious solution is to fill those positions with overseas applicants, be they Irish or non-Irish.

househero wrote: »

...so we need foreign workers to come and do the jobs for us. Would that not just leave the (seasonably adjusted) 15% currently unemployed, unemployed forever?

I think a large number will be, yes. Some will retrain, some will take low-paid jobs as they become available, some will wait for the construction industry to pick up again and some will emigrate. But I suspect a sizeable chunk will remain unemployed for the rest of their lives.

djpbarry

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I am sad to hear things are worse overall.

I'm not sure how you've reached that conclusion? The public finances are in a better state than they were 18 months ago. Aside from that, not a great deal has changed.

NIMAN

I'd sum it up saying we are still at the mercy of others.

areyawell

Overall the country is a kip, high inflation rates, lower wages and higher taxes. Sick to the teeth of Phil Hogan laughing at people in interviews. Don't come back. Nearly finished Masters in college and I hope to get a job in the UK as I couldn't give two f***s about this country anymore!

djpbarry

areyawell wrote: »

Overall the country is a kip, high inflation rates, lower wages and higher taxes. Sick to the teeth of Phil Hogan laughing at people in interviews. Don't come back. Nearly finished Masters in college and I hope to get a job in the UK as I couldn't give two f***s about this country anymore!

If you think Ireland is characterised by high inflation, low wages and high taxes, you're in for a nasty shock when you come over to the UK.

NIMAN

Yeah cos the UK is positively booming!

Its on its knees like 99% of the world's economies.

djpbarry

NIMAN wrote: »

Yeah cos the UK is positively booming!

Not really what I was getting at.

Villa05

MMAGirl wrote: »

Unless they are bringing them in from overseas because they will work for less, putting an Irish person who could have done the job on the dole.

Look at IT.
Plenty of people qualified to do the jobs.
Companies constantly cry about not being able to find people.
Lobby the govt to allow them to bring in IT people from overseas.

What they really mean is that we dont want to pay people so lets pretend there is a shortage here and then we can ship more people in to do those jobs cheaper.

What are you talking about?
The German Finance Minister was in town today to meet his Irish counterpart, to his surprise, he found that 2 people do the the job and both are paid more than him even though Irelands population is only a small fraction of Germany's. Meanwhile Germany is an economic powerhouse and Ireland is a bankrupt basket case.

That, to me, is all you need to know about Ireland. Sums it up. Benchmarking gone crazy

Villa05

djpbarry wrote: »

Who said anything about fixing the economy?
I said it was the best thing the government could in terms of job creation - I never said it would cure all ills.

All the evidence suggests that there is a serious shortage of technically literate people in the Irish workforce (not just the Irish workforce it has to be said). This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, given that over the last 10-15 years, demand for computer science and software engineering courses (for example) at third-level was far outstripped by demand for business, arts and humanities courses. The obvious consequence of this has been evident for years:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0102/cpl-business.html

So we now have a situation where Ireland has a whole bunch of positions requiring a certain skill set but doesn’t have the people to fill those positions. So we either leave those positions vacant, which is in nobody’s interest, or we allow immigrants to fill them.

Unless of course I’m wrong and there are hundreds (or even thousands) of unemployed computer science and software development graduates in Ireland. But given the salaries on offer for the vacant positions, I find it pretty hard to believe there’s a labour surplus.

Have we such a diversified economy that we can't fill our vacant positions from the entire population of the EU

NIMAN

djpbarry wrote: »

Not really what I was getting at.

My reply was aimed at post before yours.

Villa05

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm not sure how you've reached that conclusion? The public finances are in a better state than they were 18 months ago. Aside from that, not a great deal has changed.

Our debt is higher and we are still borrowing to meet day to day needs, so how have public finances improved?

Villa05

kodoherty93 wrote: »

The budget is slightly better under control. But they have done little to reduce no cuts to welfare or more jobs

However Dublins rents haven't risen rapidly as people are renting putinng off buying and half of brazil is studying English in Ireland now. ( you can get a visa to study English in Ireland no problem unlike the uk, plus in Ireland you work on a study visa where you can't Do that in the uk)

Rents are killing the economy, jobs. Rising rents are a parasite to sustainable growth

Icepick

areyawell wrote: »

Overall the country is a kip, high inflation rates, lower wages and higher taxes. Sick to the teeth of Phil Hogan laughing at people in interviews. Don't come back. Nearly finished Masters in college and I hope to get a job in the UK as I couldn't give two f***s about this country anymore!

Paying for expensive degrees of people like you is another thing that should be looked at.

thebman

Villa05 wrote: »

Rents are killing the economy, jobs. Rising rents are a parasite to sustainable growth

Except rents aren't really rising are they? Not noticeably anyway, maybe for higher end accommodation.

Rents have in fact decreased in most areas. Business rents aren't declining like they should be which is a problem due to upward only terms in leases and the councils are increasing rates just in case businesses didn't have it hard enough to try to fund their massive budget holes since there are no rates.

areyawell

Icepick wrote: »

Paying for expensive degrees of people like you is another thing that should be looked at.

Of people like me? What is that supposed to mean? I funded college myself and got no help from the government. I know people who have managed to get jobs in the UK and there living comfortably, a lot more than they would be in Ireland

djpbarry

Villa05 wrote: »

Have we such a diversified economy that we can't fill our vacant positions from the entire population of the EU

Well, evidently not, given that said positions are not being filled.

Villa05 wrote: »

Our debt is higher and we are still borrowing to meet day to day needs, so how have public finances improved?

The gap between government income and expenditure has narrowed.

areyawell wrote: »

I know people who have managed to get jobs in the UK and there living comfortably, a lot more than they would be in Ireland

How so? Salaries are generally higher in Ireland and taxes are lower.

areyawell

djpbarry wrote: »

How so? Salaries are generally higher in Ireland and taxes are lower.

One is an accountant getting 22k sterling as a graduate. Cheap Bear, Cheap food, Cheap designer Clothes and his accommodation is reasonable enough.

Another guy I know is in Aberdeen. He is a programmer. 20K Couldn't get a job here in Ireland. Didn't even get an email back from recruitment companies when applying for job here in Ireland. The company trained him in for a month or two and has a mentor if anything goes wrong. Works long and out of working hours to keep up with colleagues who have years experience. Has to be done. You wouldn't see this in Ireland. Companies actually helping graduates and not expecting them to know everything when they start.

Stheno

areyawell wrote: »

You wouldn't see this in Ireland. Companies actually helping graduates and not expecting them to know everything when they start.

There are actually a decent amount of graduate schemes in the tech industry here.

areyawell

Stheno wrote: »

There are actually a decent amount of graduate schemes in the tech industry here.

Please enlighten me where?.
Anyone with a degree with at least have to do a CCPA or one of the Microsoft ones to get a job or a Linux certified Network associate type one to get a job in general networking. Just the Norm. If Springboard could set up these kinds of courses It would be brilliant. I think they have one or two set up but they need more of these.

Companies will not look at graduates of programming courses unless they have experience or a masters done with a high grade. Its the truth

Stheno

areyawell wrote: »

Please enlighten me where?.
Anyone with a degree with at least have to do a CCPA or one of the Microsoft ones to get a job or a Linux certified Network associate type one to get a job in general networking. Just the Norm. If Springboard could set up these kinds of courses It would be brilliant. I think they have one or two set up but they need more of these.

Companies will not look at graduates of programming courses unless they have experience or a masters done with a high grade. Its the truth

HP, Accenture, Fujitsu all have graduate schemes. I managed a team of graduates in one of those companies a couple of years ago. Two of the grads were in the network team and trained on the job.

Most of the grads had general computer science degrees and have gone on to do pretty well.

The schemes are still in place, every year on here you see discussions about them? You tend to need to have a good degree

thebman

Stheno wrote: »

HP, Accenture, Fujitsu all have graduate schemes. I managed a team of graduates in one of those companies a couple of years ago. Two of the grads were in the network team and trained on the job.

Most of the grads had general computer science degrees and have gone on to do pretty well.

The schemes are still in place, every year on here you see discussions about them? You tend to need to have a good degree

They are all run by multi-nationals though. No Irish company operates such schemes I believe.

Stheno

thebman wrote: »

They are all run by multi-nationals though. No Irish company operates such schemes I believe.

I think Version 1 might?

I was just addressing the previous posters point that such schemes are not in operation here full stop.

thebman

Stheno wrote: »

I think Version 1 might?

I was just addressing the previous posters point that such schemes are not in operation here full stop.

I think that is what he meant though. Most people I know, either started with multi-nationals or knew someone that could recommend them for hiring in an Irish company.

Nobody I know actually got a job with an Irish company and was assigned a mentor or anything of the sort.

In Irish companies, it is throw him in the deep end and sure ah it will be grand.

areyawell

thebman wrote: »

I think that is what he meant though. Most people I know, either started with multi-nationals or knew someone that could recommend them for hiring in an Irish company.

Nobody I know actually got a job with an Irish company and was assigned a mentor or anything of the sort.

In Irish companies, it is throw him in the deep end and sure ah it will be grand.

Yes that's what I mean, some multinationals have graduate schemes, but very hard to get into with about four interviews to do before you get selected and only the top people with 1.1 degrees get selected. If the government actually got there priorities right and enticed companies to have graduate schemes and just pay the graduates 120 euro a week on top of there dole(not the measly 50 euro like jobridge) for six months then graduates would be able to move to take up the graduate schemes. If the company decides not to keep the person on then there finished with the company after six months. Impossible to move and work on 144+50 euro in dublin. Just not possible

A lot of graduate roles in other companies are unrealistic with the skill set they want have graduates to have. Basically they want people with a couple of years experience willing to work for a graduate wage