Could someone give me a summary of the current state of the Irish economy?

djpbarry

areyawell wrote: »

One is an accountant getting 22k sterling as a graduate.

So that’s about £336 per week after tax – hardly what I would call a good income.

areyawell wrote: »

Cheap Bear, Cheap food, Cheap designer Clothes and his accommodation is reasonable enough.

Yes we all live on air and water over here.

areyawell wrote: »

Another guy I know is in Aberdeen. He is a programmer. 20K Couldn't get a job here in Ireland.

I don’t understand what you think that proves? One person couldn’t get a job in Ireland, so there are no jobs in Ireland for graduates?

areyawell wrote: »

Please enlighten me where?.
Anyone with a degree with at least have to do a CCPA or one of the Microsoft ones to get a job or a Linux certified Network associate type one to get a job in general networking.

Absolute nonsense. Employers couldn’t give a toss what a piece of paper says you can do. They’re only interested in demonstrable skills and knowledge.

areyawell wrote: »

Companies will not look at graduates of programming courses unless they have experience or a masters done with a high grade. Its the truth

No, it’s your opinion.

Here you go – here’s a graduate Java developer position in Dublin paying €25 - 28k per annum. No experience required:

http://jobview.monster.ie/Java-Developer-Graduate-Entry-Level-Job-Dublin-Dublin-Ireland-114623667.aspx

Took me all of 30 seconds to find that.

Man007

kodoherty93 wrote: »

Also multinationals are employing again but they only want non-English speaking

What?????? You are talking absolute rubbish

Stheno

Man007 wrote: »

What?????? You are talking absolute rubbish

Agreed, I've had two interviews in the past four months with multi nationals and there was no requirement for languages at all.

Icepick

areyawell wrote: »

Of people like me? What is that supposed to mean? I funded college myself and got no help from the government.

If you are going to a private college, I stand corrected.

Japer

Villa05 wrote: »

The German Finance Minister was in town today to meet his Irish counterpart, to his surprise, he found that 2 people do the the job and both are paid more than him even though Irelands population is only a small fraction of Germany's. Meanwhile Germany is an economic powerhouse and Ireland is a bankrupt basket case.

That, to me, is all you need to know about Ireland. Sums it up. Benchmarking gone crazy

+1. Until public service pay and pensions decrease in Ireland, we will not have the full confidence and co-operation of the Germans , IMF etc, and who can blame them. Confidence and morale remains low in the productive sector of the economy.

Godge

Japer wrote: »

+1. Until public service pay and pensions decrease in Ireland, we will not have the full confidence and co-operation of the Germans , IMF etc, and who can blame them. Confidence and morale remains low in the productive sector of the economy.

More nonsense.

The Troika have no issues with the progress made under the Croke Park Agreeement.

By the way Cadbury's are the latests to do a deal in the private sector for wage increases for their staff.

Japer

Godge wrote: »

The Troika have no issues with the progress made under the Croke Park Agreeement.

they still reckon Irish public sector wages are too high.

If you were the German Finance Minister , in charge of the German economy - and arguably with great responsibility for Europes- economy, and found that his Irish counterpart - in this little country with so few taxpayers - was still paying himself more that you were, despite still holding out the begging bowl, you'd be pissed off too.

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

they still reckon Irish public sector wages are too high.

If you were the German Finance Minister , in charge of the German economy - and arguably with great responsibility for Europes- economy, and found that his Irish counterpart - in this little country with so few taxpayers - was still paying himself more that you were, despite still holding out the begging bowl, you'd be pissed off too.

Enda is paid less than Merkel
http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20120516-42579.html

I dont really feel like looking but I also think the current minster for finance is paid less than their german counterpart.

So Im not sure what your point is.

Stheno

Godge wrote: »

More nonsense.

The Troika have no issues with the progress made under the Croke Park Agreeement.

By the way Cadbury's are the latests to do a deal in the private sector for wage increases for their staff.

A survey about three months ago indicated that across the whole private sector there would be an average pay increase of about 1/2 a percent.

Must find the link.

Personally I think that things are slowly improving.

MMAGirl

Japer wrote: »

+1. Until public service pay and pensions decrease in Ireland, we will not have the full confidence and co-operation of the Germans , IMF etc, and who can blame them. Confidence and morale remains low in the productive sector of the economy.

MMAGirl wrote: »

I nearly forget. Everyone in Ireland who is on the internet is now a genius economist. Amazing really.
Who would have thought all you needed was a keyboard to learn this great skill.

And we all assume now that we know what everyone elses job entails. That we can do their job better than them. And that they have such an easy job that they are paid too much - whatever the job or pay.

Yes, normal Ireland really.

Japer

"It said German officials had discovered "the Irish prime minister earns three times as much as the German chancellor" and that "there is a lot of room for economising".
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/german-mps-shock-at-level-of-tds-pay-1676069.html

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

"It said German officials had discovered "the Irish prime minister earns three times as much as the German chancellor" and that "there is a lot of room for economising".
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/german-mps-shock-at-level-of-tds-pay-1676069.html

That refers to the deceased former minister for finance and the article is three years old.

Ministers in Germany currently earn more than their Irish counterparts.

Japer

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Ministers in Germany currently earn more than their Irish counterparts.

Germanys prime minister Merkel earns a salary of €220,000 per year. Bear in mind Germany is a large very successful economic nation, and is the second biggest exporter and trader of goods in the world.

In Ireland, the most indebted country in the world and also the country with the highest public sector pay in the known world, some public hospital consultants earn more than that. Proper order that a successful country like Ireland should reward someone who saves lives more than a mere prime minister. We are right, other countries are wrong in not paying and valuing their public servants enough.

MysticalRain

If memory serves, the OP is well qualified and works in IT, so he shouldn't have any major worries about walking into a job should he choose to return home. Certain sections of the economy are actually doing quite well. So if you have a good job, and don't go bananas like some people did during the boom, then you can actually have a reasonably good life here.

So what's the catch you might ask? As other posters have pointed out, this country still has a dysfunctional economy and political system. Everybody here wants everybody else except their own group to pay the extra taxes and endure salary cuts. We still pay our PS more than what richer nations like Germany pay theirs. We still pay people who have spent 10 years on the dole as much as those who have spent ten months on it. The current bunch of politicians are almost as feckless as the previous lot, and most scarily of all, a large chunk of the population who bought over-priced houses now want to be bailed out so they can resume party again at the first available opportunity - aided and abetted by a political and media establishment who have learned nothing from the last 10 years (my guess is it will probably take a second economic disaster to convince them that the first one wasn't mere dumb luck). God knows where the money to pay for this will come from. My guess is they may look at people like yourself as kind of a golden goose whose feathers they wish to pluck for all it's worth.

My suggestion would be to find a country where you actually get decent value for your taxes, and staying there for the foreseeable future.

Idbatterim

So what's the catch you might ask? As other posters have pointed out, this country still has a dysfunctional economy and political system. Everybody here wants everybody else except their own group to pay the extra taxes and endure salary cuts. We still pay our PS more than what richer nations like Germany pay theirs. We still pay people who have spent 10 years on the dole as much as those who have spent ten months on it. The current bunch of politicians are almost as feckless as the previous lot, and most scarily of all, a large chunk of the population who bought over-priced houses now want to be bailed out so they can resume party again at the first available opportunity - aided and abetted by a political and media establishment who have learned nothing from the last 10 years (my guess is it will probably take a second economic disaster to convince them that the first one wasn't mere dumb luck). God knows where the money to pay for this will come from. My guess is they may look at people like yourself as kind of a golden goose whose feathers they wish to pluck for all it's worth.

agree with most of this, I think the piss taking, goes all the way from the bottom to the top. I am sick of the middle being bled dry though...

Head The Wall

This is exactly why I left, there is nothing good in the foreseeable future for Ireland if you ask me.

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

Germanys prime minister Merkel earns a salary of €220,000 per year. Bear in mind Germany is a large very successful economic nation, and is the second biggest exporter and trader of goods in the world.

Wrong japer, China and the USA are the largest exporters in the world.

Japer wrote: »

In Ireland, the most indebted country in the world and also the country with the highest public sector pay in the known world, some public hospital consultants earn more than that. Proper order that a successful country like Ireland should reward someone who saves lives more than a mere prime minister. We are right, other countries are wrong in not paying and valuing their public servants enough.

Again wrong japer, unless your known world consists of Ireland alone. There are many nations with higher debts than us, but you really dont like facts, do you. You much prefer the soapbox!

You and another poster claimed that the Irish finance minster was paid more than his german counterpart, we both know now thats not true.

You have in your ultimate wisdom of the world decided that all of Irelands i'll's are the fault of the PS and to show everyone else how bad the PS are you are willing to say anything.

gerryo777

Stheno wrote: »

A survey about three months ago indicated that across the whole private sector there would be an average pay increase of about 1/2 a percent.

Must find the link.

Personally I think that things are slowly improving.

So I suppose then that if private sector pay is starting to improve slightly, our precious PS workers will be looking for benchmarking to kick in again and award them similar pay rises, plus a couple of percent above the rate of inflation (on top of the other pay rises (increments)) they've been getting all along.

gerryo777

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Again wrong japer, unless your known world consists of Ireland alone. There are many nations with higher debts than us, but you really dont like facts, do you. You much prefer the soapbox!

Higher debts than us per head of population?
I don't think so.

K-9

We already have a couple of threads specifically about Public Service pay, we don't need another one going over the same stuff and taking over this one, it is a general thread after all.

HellFireClub

MMAGirl wrote: »

Things are great if you have a job.
Things are sh1t if you have no job.
People all want some other group to pay more taxes or have salary cuts, but not their own group.
Normal Ireland really.

I nearly forget. Everyone in Ireland who is on the internet is now a genius economist. Amazing really.
Who would have thought all you needed was a keyboard to learn this great skill.

And we all assume now that we know what everyone elses job entails. That we can do their job better than them. And that they have such an easy job that they are paid too much - whatever the job or pay.

Yes, normal Ireland really.

I don't think you need a PhD in economics to be able to make a fairly reasonable and rational analysis of what is going on in this country, especially if you run your own business in the domestic economy, in fact you are probably best positioned to see where we are at at the present time, same can be said for someone who has lost their job, or who has a family where unemployment is an issue, etc.

It really is patronising in the extreme to be trying to claim that Irish people are struggling to carry a burden that in reality is not theirs to carry, (in relation to the banks), have no right to have a say in what is happening, because in your view, they lack some kind of qualification on the subject of economics.

In fact I'd argue that is that very mindset that has us right where we are at today, we all knew this country had completely lost the run of itself, especially in relation to property prices, but it was the very highly qualified economists, who worked for the banks who continually told us we had nothing to worry about, once we kept signing up to insane mortgage contracts, meanwhile the dogs on the street knew that the whole property scam in this country was just that, a scam.

HellFireClub

Head The Wall wrote: »

This is exactly why I left, there is nothing good in the foreseeable future for Ireland if you ask me.

There is nothing happening here, the small business sector is being slowly strangled on a daily basis, or so it seems to me, via the policy to impoverish every household in the land. The majority of people in this country haven't a penny to spend by the time they see the end of the month, by the time they pay their mortgage, bills, etc.

The only saving circumstance is if you are in the public sector or else in a multinational, then you might be protected from a large extent of the poverty that is out there, because you are protected by either a Croke Park Agreement or else a profitable multinational exporting company that is completely insulated from domestic spending in the local economy, (or lack thereof), to stay in business.

The picture in terms of national statistics, may be skewed to look a lot rosier than it actually is, which is completely down to exports or large foreign businesses operating here, again exporting, which actually do not employ that many people and no not trade in this economy, relative to the size of our how massive national unemployment problem.

Personally I wish I got out of here back in 2008...

Idbatterim

The only saving circumstance is if you are in the public sector or else in a multinational, then you might be protected from a large extent of the poverty that is out there, because you are protected by either a Croke Park Agreement or else a profitable multinational exporting company that is completely insulated from domestic spending in the local economy, (or lack thereof), to stay in business.

dont forget the pensioners!

sarumite

Japer wrote: »

Germanys prime minister Merkel earns a salary of €220,000 per year. Bear in mind Germany is a large very successful economic nation, and is the second biggest exporter and trader of goods in the world.

I

Its actually third biggest after the US and China.

Japer

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wrong japer, China and the USA are the largest exporters in the world.

I said "exporter and trader" of goods in the world. Actually, according to Wiki, Germany was the world's largest exporter from 2003 to 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany
I'm well aware that China and USA are currenty ahead ogF Germany in terms of exports, but in terms of trade with other countries Germany is no. 2 in the world, due to it not having huge reserves of natural resources and its imports etc. The point was Angela Merkel, the p.m of Germany gets paid only €220,000 per year....that sort of money was described as "micky mouse money" by our hospital consultants here and they would not work as consultants for that. Remember that speech in Dublin during the boom by the German ...most of what he said about Ireland has proven to be true.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Again wrong japer, unless your known world consists of Ireland alone. There are many nations with higher debts than us, but you really dont like facts, do you.

If you include household debt, bank debt, government debt and business debt, then yes we owe the most per capita in the world. Good to know we are good at something.

RobbieTheRobber

Japer wrote: »

I said "exporter and trader" of goods in the world. Actually, according to Wiki, Germany was the world's largest exporter from 2003 to 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany
I'm well aware that China and USA are currenty ahead ogF Germany in terms of exports, but in terms of trade with other countries Germany is no. 2 in the world, due to it not having huge reserves of natural resources and its imports etc. The point was Angela Merkel, the p.m of Germany gets paid only €220,000 per year....that sort of money was described as "micky mouse money" by our hospital consultants here and they would not work as consultants for that. Remember that speech in Dublin during the boom by the German ...most of what he said about Ireland has proven to be true.




If you include household debt, bank debt, government debt and business debt, then yes we owe the most per capita in the world. Good to know we are good at something.

China and the Usa both account for more than Germany at import and exports so im not sure what you mean exporter and trader of goods if not imports and exports then what?

Godge

Japer wrote: »

I said "exporter and trader" of goods in the world. Actually, according to Wiki, Germany was the world's largest exporter from 2003 to 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany
I'm well aware that China and USA are currenty ahead ogF Germany in terms of exports, but in terms of trade with other countries Germany is no. 2 in the world, due to it not having huge reserves of natural resources and its imports etc. The point was Angela Merkel, the p.m of Germany gets paid only €220,000 per year....that sort of money was described as "micky mouse money" by our hospital consultants here and they would not work as consultants for that. Remember that speech in Dublin during the boom by the German ...most of what he said about Ireland has proven to be true..

Thanks for that link. Very useful information. Obviously you are right, Germany is such a large trading nation. Checked the link that Wiki provided and found that it was a list of exporting countries (not trading nations, a little different as you should include imports as well). Never mind, we will let you off with that. Anyway, going down the list I find a figure for Ireland. I am not sure if the list is in billions or trillions but Germany had 1,408 and Ireland had 118.7. So I thought, yes Germany is bigger than Ireland in export terms, but you would expect that as it is a bigger country. Then I asked myself, is this true in per capita terms as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries

Back to Wikipedia to get link to see population of Germany (81.8) and Ireland (4.23). Dividing the respective export performance by population and we get Germany (17.21) and Ireland (28.06) meaning per capita Ireland performs twice as well!!!!

If we follow your logic to pay Taoisigh as per export performance we should double Enda's salary to put him nearly twice Merkel's:D.

Maybe you should go back to the drawing-board and come up with some other rationale.

Japer wrote: »

If you include household debt, bank debt, government debt and business debt, then yes we owe the most per capita in the world. Good to know we are good at something.

Done to death elsewhere.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2012/10/the-level-of-national-indebtedness.html

An extremely detailed analysis of the rubbish posted on the internet by supposed experts that Ireland has the largest debt and interest burden and repeated stupidly by the likes of some broadsheets is contained in the attached link. The conclusion is that we are actually better off than many countries including such paragons of virute as the Netherlands.

Another statistic without foundation that you have produced.

Japer

Godge wrote: »

I am not sure if the list is in billions or trillions but....

shure who cares if you are out by a factor of a thousand.

The huge difference between our GDP and GNP can at least be partially explained by our multinational companies, and how the laundering of european profits through Ireland is not unknown for tax reasons. Thats why so many in Europe wanyt us to get rid of out extraordinary low rate of corporation tax. There are brass plate companies registered in Dublin / IFSC with billions of turnover and only 4 or 5 employees. Anyway, back to the point. Merkel, the prime minister of Germany, a successful industrialised economy, a G7 nation, home of many of the worlds leading brands is paid 220,000 per year. Here some public sector hospital consultants get more than that. Merkel has tens of millions of taxpayers to pay her wages. Who is paying our better paid public servants?

Godge

Japer wrote: »

shure who cares if you are out by a factor of a thousand.

I was wondering whether you would come back on this point. It actually made no difference at all as to whether the figures were in millions or billions or trillions as I was calculating per capita ratios and so long as the two numbers had the same relationship to one another (which they did coming from the same table), it made no difference to the overall calculation. See here for a simple explanation.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/ratio.html

Japer wrote: »

The huge difference between our GDP and GNP can at least be partially explained by our multinational companies, and how the laundering of european profits through Ireland is not unknown for tax reasons. Thats why so many in Europe wanyt us to get rid of out extraordinary low rate of corporation tax. There are brass plate companies registered in Dublin / IFSC with billions of turnover and only 4 or 5 employees. Anyway, back to the point. Merkel, the prime minister of Germany, a successful industrialised economy, a G7 nation, home of many of the worlds leading brands is paid 220,000 per year. Here some public sector hospital consultants get more than that. Merkel has tens of millions of taxpayers to pay her wages. Who is paying our better paid public servants?

Now where do I mention GNP or GDP? I used your table on exports and took the figure and divided by population to see which country was best on exporting per capita. Ireland came out ahead by a clear mile and your point goes up in smoke. Now that the figures you used to back you up are totally discredited, you are back to a rant.

As for the brass plate companies, maybe you could explain whether your original table (which you provided and I used to destroy your argument) was based on manufacturing exports, service exports, financial transactions, movement of money or a combination of all?

ardmacha

There are brass plate companies registered in Dublin / IFSC with billions of turnover and only 4 or 5 employees.

I am not sure of the full extent of this, but we should eliminate these to protect the tax rate for Googles etc that actually hire people.

Anyway, back to the point. Merkel, the prime minister of Germany, a successful industrialised economy, a G7 nation, home of many of the worlds leading brands is paid 220,000 per year. Here some public sector hospital consultants get more than that. Merkel has tens of millions of taxpayers to pay her wages. Who is paying our better paid public servants?

Which is not the point of the thread, so you are not getting back to it.
You are getting back to your pet hobby horse though.

djpbarry

Japer wrote: »

Merkel, the prime minister of Germany, a successful industrialised economy, a G7 nation, home of many of the worlds leading brands is paid 220,000 per year. Here some public sector hospital consultants get more than that. Merkel has tens of millions of taxpayers to pay her wages. Who is paying our better paid public servants?

Why are you repeatedly comparing the pay of a politician in Germany with health care consultants in Ireland? It's utterly meaningless.

thebman

djpbarry wrote: »

Why are you repeatedly comparing the pay of a politician in Germany with health care consultants in Ireland? It's utterly meaningless.

Gotta do something I suppose.

Back to the actual topic, the current state of the Irish economy is upside down and inside out

ardmacha

Returning to topic, Ireland in the last quarter of 2012

has growing manufacturing output
http://www.ncbresearch.com/PDF_Archive/2012-11/ManufacturingPMI.pdf

partly because of the above, has a growing current account surplus


has high but stable unemployment
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/lreg_oct2012.pdf

but has some interesting jobs in the pipeline
http://www.idaireland.com/news-media/announcements/docs/Announcement-list-2012.doc

the story with jobs in local services isn't so good, but things have stabilised here too
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/rsi_sep2012.pdf

In short, Ireland is making a stab at things, but the whole EU is wrecking itself, so we are probably banjaxed.
http://www.voxeu.org/article/self-defeating-austerity

Icepick

ardmacha wrote: »

Returning to topic, Ireland in the last quarter of 2012

has growing manufacturing output
http://www.ncbresearch.com/PDF_Archive/2012-11/ManufacturingPMI.pdf

partly because of the above, has a growing current account surplus


has high but stable unemployment
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/lreg_oct2012.pdf

but has some interesting jobs in the pipeline
http://www.idaireland.com/news-media/announcements/docs/Announcement-list-2012.doc

the story with jobs in local services isn't so good, but things have stabilised here too
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/rsi_sep2012.pdf

In short, Ireland is making a stab at things, but the whole EU is wrecking itself, so we are probably banjaxed.
http://www.voxeu.org/article/self-defeating-austerity

only thanks to a 15 billion deficit