Ballon D'Or shortlist

Rayne Wooney

I found it hilarious that Cassilas voted Sergio Ramos the best player in the world :pac:

Jelle1880

marbless wrote: »

In Messi's 3 most important matches of the year he made absolutely no impact. He was anonymous when Barca lost at home to Real in La Liga last season (when Ronaldo was brilliant) and failed to damage Chelsea in the semi-final matches of the Champions League, including a missed penalty.

Great players used to be judged on their productivity in the most difficult matches. By that standard Ronaldo deserved the prize.

Did you forget the Real - Bayern game ?

As for Messi not voting for Ronaldo: Ronaldo didn't even vote, despite the fact he's Portugal's captain he let Alves vote in his place.

For the second year in a row.

Courtesy Flush

Iker Casillas voted for Sergio Ramos to win the Ballon d'Or ahead of Ronaldo and didn't have Messi or Iniesta in his top 3.

Messi having no time for Ronaldo in his top 3 either. Big surprise

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/ballond'or/playeroftheyear(men)/01/98/07/84/fboawardmenplayer2012-bycountry.pdf

764dak

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Did you forget the Real - Bayern game ?

As for Messi not voting for Ronaldo: Ronaldo didn't even vote, despite the fact he's Portugal's captain he let Alves vote in his place.

For the second year in a row.

Ronaldo assisted only goal in first leg loss and scored both goals in second leg.

Jelle1880

764dak wrote: »

Ronaldo assisted only goal in first leg loss and scored both goals in second leg.

And missed a penalty when it mattered.

elefant

Jaysus. The Irish media didn't even give Messi third!! place. Jesus wept.

Mr.Nice Guy

elefant wrote: »

Jaysus. The Irish media didn't even give Messi third!! place. Jesus wept.

It's unbelievable and a bit embarrassing.

Republic of Ireland captain Robbie Keane voted for Messi, followed by Ronaldo and Iniesta, while his international manager Giovanni Trapattoni preferred Spain's Xavi in third. The Irish media - represented by freelance Paul Kelly and veteran broadcaster Jimmy Magee - omitted Messi altogether and opted instead for Ronaldo in first, Iniesta and Italy's Andrea Pirlo.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2013/0107/1224328548722.html

Don't tell Dunphy.

darced

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RandolphEsq

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's unbelievable and a bit embarrassing.
.

Beyond a bit embarrassing

mufcboy1999

Are people still taking about ronaldo freezing on the big game stage , really are you stupid or just ignorant to the facts ? 6 el classicos in a row etc etc.

I remember messi missing a penalty against Chelsea in the other semi being outshone by Torres !!! Never mind Robbin.

Anyway for messi to get the award on an individual stat is disgraceful , barca ended up with no trophies and the vast majority of his goals counted for nothing.

It's a team game and the fact is ronaldos performances/goals for club and country were more important hence the trophys and euro semi final appearance.

The chap can't do much more he scored more than messi in 2011 and didn't win it because messi won the league and now the shoes on the other foot and they still give it to messi.

How many goals did ronaldo finish up on ? Lets keep in mind he plays as a winger and not a striker like messi too.

darced

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ricero

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Are people still taking about ronaldo freezing on the big game stage , really are you stupid or just ignorant to the facts ? 6 el classicos in a row etc etc.

I remember messi missing a penalty against Chelsea in the other semi being outshone by Torres !!! Never mind Robbin.

Anyway for messi to get the award on an individual stat is disgraceful , barca ended up with no trophies and the vast majority of his goals counted for nothing.

It's a team game and the fact is ronaldos performances/goals for club and country were more important hence the trophys and euro semi final appearance.

The chap can't do much more he scored more than messi in 2011 and didn't win it because messi won the league and now the shoes on the other foot and they still give it to messi.

How many goals did ronaldo finish up on ? Lets keep in mind he plays as a winger and not a striker like messi too.

Barca won the coppa del ray

G.K.

Much respect to the Thai coach.

peterswellman

darced wrote: »

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Ronaldo outshone Messi in the biggest game of last year for the two clubs when Ronaldo was away from home.

Same could be said of Messi this year in the biggst games. One dragged his team to a La Liga title, the other dragged his team to **** all.

Messi is the better player as a whole and has been over the course of the last four years.....however I think Ronaldo's aiding in supposedly stopping the 'greatest team' containing the 'greatest player ever' over the course of a whole season is incredible.

You're one of the most bitter posters on here regarding anything United though, so i'm obviously never gonna change your view. He's an United legend so therefore a dick, am I right?

awec

If it was a straight choice of Messi or Ronaldo then it's without doubt Messi every single day of the week. He is the better player, pure and simple.

Probably the best player there has ever been and he's still only 25.

peterswellman

Swap Messi and Ronaldo's seasons and Messi still wins. Ones a poster boy and the other is a supposed villain.

awec

On the subject of the team of the year, I wouldn't have any of the defenders near the team.

Dohnny Jepp

hummels kompany and barzagli would be an improvemnt over both of the cb's listed.

darced

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awec

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

hummels kompany and barzagli would be an improvemnt over both of the cb's listed.

I'd have Lahm in the team.

Probably wouldn't include Kompany.

Blatter

darced wrote: »

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Ronaldo has already won it, 2008.

peterswellman

darced wrote: »

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Yes, I clearly stated he still plays for us alrite. He gave us a year more than he wanted too and helped us win the league and make the CL final. He has spoken nothing but good about United since leaving. We got £80 million so hardly left in the lurch. He gave us some amazing times, won alot for us and destroyed England like no other player has done for quite sometime. Left to follow his dream and managed to leave us with a substantial profit.

He's a legend. Deal with it.



Btw, where did I say I didn't rate messi higher? You're inability to read is incredible. I stated that Messi over the past 4 years the level he has reached has been amazing and ahead of Ronaldo. I just think Ronaldo out shone him and the greatest side of all time this year.

darced

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darced

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peterswellman

darced wrote: »

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Exciting by showing you're talking bull****? Ok mate.

darced

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iregk

I saw a piece this morning which I thought was a valid point. I'm a big Messi fan, who isn't, and certainly don't think that he is an undeserving winner of the trophy. Far from it. But I do have to question now the reasoning behind some of it.

As the piece I was reading said and I fully agree with this, Sneijder in 2010 led the Inter team to a league title and Champions league title as well as being the center piece of the 2010 final reaching Holland team. Messi won the award then based on outstanding individual performances. In other words he did more individually than Sneijder. Ok but...

Ronaldo was also beaten to the punch despite last season in a year in which Real broke the points tally for Spain and Ronaldo scored a ridiculous amount of goals and assists. The reason? Messi's oustanding contribution to the team and it was also stated that individual milestones do not apply.

So which is it?

SlickRic

Jimmy Magee and Paul Kelly, Ireland's media representatives in the voting, didn't even have Messi in the top 3.

there aren't enough fúcking facepalms in the world.

well done lads.

DoctorGonzo08

iregk wrote: »

I saw a piece this morning which I thought was a valid point. I'm a big Messi fan, who isn't, and certainly don't think that he is an undeserving winner of the trophy. Far from it. But I do have to question now the reasoning behind some of it.

As the piece I was reading said and I fully agree with this, Sneijder in 2010 led the Inter team to a league title and Champions league title as well as being the center piece of the 2010 final reaching Holland team. Messi won the award then based on outstanding individual performances. In other words he did more individually than Sneijder. Ok but...

Ronaldo was also beaten to the punch despite last season in a year in which Real broke the points tally for Spain and Ronaldo scored a ridiculous amount of goals and assists. The reason? Messi's oustanding contribution to the team and it was also stated that individual milestones do not apply.

So which is it?

I think it is just one of those things that is already pre-decided. Messi to be fair is always going to be in the top 2 as long as he's fit, and it will be a huge performance from anyone to be in the top 2 with him.

Unfortunatley Messi has become the media golden child, so if he is there or there about the rules will be bent to suit Messi winning.

It is frustrating, but imagine how much more frustrating it is for Ronaldo, or Sneijder knowing they had the year of their lives and can only be recognised as number 2.

Messi will continue to win it as long as he isn't missing for a lengthy time as a result of injury, or he retires.

Talib Fiasco

Messi is just getting it every year because of all these records and performances that portray the image that he is the greatest of all time and it just is concrete proof of that. Honestly Messi should have won it the year Ronaldo actually won it. I remember it was heralded a travesty by a lot of 'experts'. But yeah the lad is deserving of winning it every year as he is by far the most phenomenal player we've seen for ages and for me ever. I hate when people bring in team achievements into this arguement as although the player is part of a team, it's an individual award.... Now maybe Ronaldo has been treated a bit unfairly but honestly regardless of goals scored, Messi is still a superior player to him. He can do a lot more than Ronaldo can win you take out the goals they score. Messi could win this award if he was a centre mid or even a winger I think as he is so gifted. I know Ronaldo was an out and out winger at United and still is at times for Madrid but although technically crazy I still think Messi's all round game is ahead of him considerably. I think it's good that Messi is probabaly getting a biased vote in ways because these awards will be needed when the lad retires because as always there will be the stuck up people like Jimmy Magee who'll go on with his bullsh*t speech of Pele, Maradona etc. when they debate over how good Messi was....even though Jimmy mightn't even be alive then, god forbid but you know there are always them sort of people who pride on seeing the 'classic times' first hand

DoctorGonzo08

TheComeUp wrote: »

I think it's good that Messi is probabaly getting a biased vote in ways because these awards will be needed when the lad retires

That statement sums it up. A player shouldn't recieve the award for the sake of it. It is a competition at the end of the day and it should be expected that fair play is given to all the nominees. Otherwise, why bother drawing a list of nominees? Just give it to him by default and spare the farce of calling it an award.

Jimmy Iovine

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I think it is just one of those things that is already pre-decided. Messi to be fair is always going to be in the top 2 as long as he's fit, and it will be a huge performance from anyone to be in the top 2 with him.

Unfortunatley Messi has become the media golden child, so if he is there or there about the rules will be bent to suit Messi winning.

It is frustrating, but imagine how much more frustrating it is for Ronaldo, or Sneijder knowing they had the year of their lives and can only be recognised as number 2.

Messi will continue to win it as long as he isn't missing for a lengthy time as a result of injury, or he retires.

I feel sorry for Ronaldo, and I know it seems ridiculous to feel sorry for a millionaire athelete, that he is around at the same time as Messi. It must eat away at him every day that he may never get the full recognition that his talents deserve.

To score 46 goals in La Liga and still finish second in the Ballon d'Or is just incredible. It goes to show just how good Messi is.

Talib Fiasco

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

That statement sums it up. A player shouldn't recieve the award for the sake of it. It is a competition at the end of the day and it should be expected that fair play is given to all the nominees. Otherwise, why bother drawing a list of nominees? Just give it to him by default and spare the farce of calling it an award.

But it's not just because of Messi. As I mentioned I feel and lots of people felt too that Messi should have won it the year Ronaldo won it but because Ronaldo was the golden star of football at the time, regardless of the haters he earned, he got the award while at the time Messi was probably still underrated to a certain degree. But yeah of course that's the sad reality of it I guess but I'm still happy that Messi continues to win as I genuinely feel he's the best player ever. I'm not tooting my own horn here but ever since Messi was a fixture on the Barca team I felt he was up there or if not the best player in the world and has been since then. I do agree though that there has to be some reform in the way the award is handed out. I think the media vote should be scrapped because they're always going to be biased in some way, as every media outlet is praising Messi every week while criticising Ronaldo every time he doesn't match Messi.

Thecon21

I'm a United fan and as the Ballon d'Or is an individual award, there is no doubt that Messi deserved the award.

If he has another year this year like last, then he would get it again.

I do agree that some of the media votes are ridiculous, I would love to ask the Irish lads their thoughts on their vote.

Possibly the voting could be reformed next time..

fullstop

Rekop dog wrote: »

Ronaldo didn't even make Messi's top 3 in his balot. Haters gonna hate

LOL

dreamers75

iregk wrote: »

I saw a piece this morning

this is the piece i presume? My man utd loving brother just shared it on facebook

A valid Argument for the FIFA Ballon d' Or:

Year 2010 | Messi vs. Wesley Sneijder

Sneijder : Inter Milan's
Talisman as they win the
Champions League, Serie A, Coppa
Italia, Italian Supercopa, Club World
Cup. Guides Netherlands to the
WC-2010 finals where they
marginally lose out to Spain.

Messi : Wins only the La liga. Flops on the
WC stage for Argentina without even
scoring. Still wins the Ballon d'Or
Results: 1st: Messi, 2nd : Xavi, 3rd:
Iniesta ( Where's Sneijder !! ) Simply
Ludicrious !! Apparent Reason by
FIFA : Messi scored more goal

---

Year 2011: Messi vs. Ronaldo

Ronaldo : Highest goal-scorer in
Spain & the whole of Europe. Wins
the Pichichi & the Copa del rey
scoring against Messi's Barcelona in the
final.

Messi: Wins the La Liga & the
Champions League but
overshadowed by Ronaldo in terms
of the number of goals scored.
Wins the Ballon D'Or again.
Results :1st: Messi, 2nd : Ronaldo,
3rd: Xavi
Apparent Reason by FIFA : Messi got
more trophies.
Fair enough.

---

Year 2012: Messi vs. Ronaldo

Ronaldo : Wins the La Liga, Spanish
Supercoppa, Stars for Madrid in
the Champions League eventually
losing to Munich on shootouts in the S/F
Almost single-handedly guides
Portugal to the Euro 2012 finals
losing to Spain in the Shootout.
Messi: Highest goal scorer in
Europe.Breaks some records.
Still wins the Ballon d'Or.
Results :1st: Messi, 2nd : Ronaldo,
3rd: Iniesta
Apparent Reason by FIFA : Messi
scored more goals *FACEPALM*

<Wicknes7>

It is awarded based on votes by coaches and captains of international teams, as well as journalists from around the world.


I was bored yesterday in work and messing with excel i counted 36 people didnt vote Messi in any category.

Lowe, Ronaldo, portugal coach? portugal captain (alves?) the most high profile i could find.

DoctorGonzo08

TheComeUp wrote: »

But it's not just because of Messi. As I mentioned I feel and lots of people felt too that Messi should have won it the year Ronaldo won it but because Ronaldo was the golden star of football at the time, regardless of the haters he earned, he got the award while at the time Messi was probably still underrated to a certain degree. But yeah of course that's the sad reality of it I guess but I'm still happy that Messi continues to win as I genuinely feel he's the best player ever. I'm not tooting my own horn here but ever since Messi was a fixture on the Barca team I felt he was up there or if not the best player in the world and has been since then. I do agree though that there has to be some reform in the way the award is handed out. I think the media vote should be scrapped because they're always going to be biased in some way, as every media outlet is praising Messi every week while criticising Ronaldo every time he doesn't match Messi.

I agree with the booting out of journalists opinion, because at this stage I don't think there are enough journalists that can come up with a logical or original thought between them. Of course it will be expected that Club/Country captains and managers will most likely vote for their team mate, but with the rest of the world, a more realistic professional opinion might balance it out.

BetterCallSaul

Even if there was an element of favouritism in the final vote, there is no way it skewed the result by some 18% in Messi's favour.

He won it again, because he deserved it again.

Dempsey

iregk wrote: »

I saw a piece this morning which I thought was a valid point. I'm a big Messi fan, who isn't, and certainly don't think that he is an undeserving winner of the trophy. Far from it. But I do have to question now the reasoning behind some of it.

As the piece I was reading said and I fully agree with this, Sneijder in 2010 led the Inter team to a league title and Champions league title as well as being the center piece of the 2010 final reaching Holland team. Messi won the award then based on outstanding individual performances. In other words he did more individually than Sneijder. Ok but...

Ronaldo was also beaten to the punch despite last season in a year in which Real broke the points tally for Spain and Ronaldo scored a ridiculous amount of goals and assists. The reason? Messi's oustanding contribution to the team and it was also stated that individual milestones do not apply.

So which is it?

IMO, the Ballon D'Or is a popularity contest, the reasons why a player gets the award is very subjective and often votes are 'political' in nature.

Iang87

Why is this still going on?

Messi scored 91 goals for club and country this year.

Playing in a top league, playing in the champions league, playing internationally.

Thats 91 goals for those that dont seem to realise just how unnatural an achievement this is, so to say that Ronaldo should get it cos they won the league is absolute tripe.

I'd also like to point out in the euros portugal got out of the group barely cos golden boy ronaldo was absolutely awful in the first 2 games but thats not remembered. People saying messi missed a penalty against chelsea, ronaldo didnt step up in the semi final shootout.

But looking beyond all of that its an individual award and he individually scored 91 goals in a year.

DoctorGonzo08

dreamers75 wrote: »

this is the piece i presume? My man utd loving brother just shared it on facebook




It is awarded based on votes by coaches and captains of international teams, as well as journalists from around the world.

LOL. Just realised that Messi won it each time on the 'apparent reason' of the previous year!

SlickRic

ha.

Messi didn't put Ronaldo in his top 3.
Casillas didn't put Messi in his.
Portugal captain Bruno Alves didn't put Messi in his.

political voting is awesome.

also, Austrian captain Christian Fuchs didn't put Messi or Ronaldo in his top 3.

1. Xavi
2. Iniesta.
3. um....eh....Balotelli.

elefant

SlickRic wrote: »

ha.

Messi didn't put Ronaldo in his top 3.
Casillas didn't put Messi in his.
Portugal captain Bruno Alves didn't put Messi in his.

political voting is awesome.

also, Austrian captain Christian Fuchs didn't put Messi or Ronaldo in his top 3.

1. Xavi
2. Iniesta.
3. um....eh....Balotelli.

And not a single Fuchs was given that day

MD1990

SlickRic wrote: »

ha.

Messi didn't put Ronaldo in his top 3.
Casillas didn't put Messi in his.
Portugal captain Bruno Alves didn't put Messi in his.

political voting is awesome.

also, Austrian captain Christian Fuchs didn't put Messi or Ronaldo in his top 3.

1. Xavi
2. Iniesta.
3. um....eh....Balotelli.

the reason Drogba made Top 10 was because of the African's votes he got

764dak

TheComeUp wrote: »

Messi is just getting it every year because of all these records and performances that portray the image that he is the greatest of all time and it just is concrete proof of that. Honestly Messi should have won it the year Ronaldo actually won it. I remember it was heralded a travesty by a lot of 'experts'. But yeah the lad is deserving of winning it every year as he is by far the most phenomenal player we've seen for ages and for me ever. I hate when people bring in team achievements into this arguement as although the player is part of a team, it's an individual award.... Now maybe Ronaldo has been treated a bit unfairly but honestly regardless of goals scored, Messi is still a superior player to him. He can do a lot more than Ronaldo can win you take out the goals they score. Messi could win this award if he was a centre mid or even a winger I think as he is so gifted. I know Ronaldo was an out and out winger at United and still is at times for Madrid but although technically crazy I still think Messi's all round game is ahead of him considerably. I think it's good that Messi is probabaly getting a biased vote in ways because these awards will be needed when the lad retires because as always there will be the stuck up people like Jimmy Magee who'll go on with his bullsh*t speech of Pele, Maradona etc. when they debate over how good Messi was....even though Jimmy mightn't even be alive then, god forbid but you know there are always them sort of people who pride on seeing the 'classic times' first hand

Hang on...When Ronaldo scored more goals in 2011 he wasn't given the award because Messi won more trophies but when the shoe is on the other foot Messi still wins it. Don't you think something is wrong with that?

Also, when Messi finished 2nd behind Kaka in 2007 that was also undeserving as there were many far better players who had a better year than him.

Rezident

SlickRic wrote: »

Jimmy Magee and Paul Kelly, Ireland's media representatives in the voting, didn't even have Messi in the top 3.

there aren't enough fúcking facepalms in the world.

well done lads.

I have lost all respect for them now, they have really shown themselves up. I've been defending Jimmy Magee for years against the critics in work but maybe he just doesn't get the modern game. Maybe they will appreciate Messi in time but this is just risible.

darced

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764dak

darced wrote: »

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What about Messi's second place finish in 2007? Messi wasn't that great.

mufcboy1999

darced wrote: »

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Really just all power and pace? The ignorance and just plain obvious hatred towards ronaldo in football is shocking.

Yes his attitude is questionable especially when compared to messi but messi is by no means what so ever miles ahead of him like people suggest.

Ronaldo deserved it more based on last season , yes it's an individual award but the bottom line is ronaldos performances resulted in trophys the one single most important aspect in defying a players career.

It's not as if ronaldo scored f*ck all goals either he got 70 odd from the wing so tbh he's more than capable of notching more playing right up top like messi.

darced

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