Ballon D'Or shortlist

764dak

darced wrote: »

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A more natural footballer would be more two footed such as Zidane, C. Blanco, Cazorla, Pele, Fred, Hernanes, Forlan, Nedved, Maldini etc.

miralize

A more natural football makes the game look effortless, its not about which foot you use.

Being two footed isn't exactly natural either, you have to work at it, which is the general point darced is making. And its not like Messi is poor on his other foot

peterswellman

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You do some amount of backtracking on your statements. First it's all power and pace and now it's not all power and pace.

kryogen

Ronaldo is not a natural footballer now eh?

What a load of ****.

peterswellman

kryogen wrote: »

Ronaldo is not a natural footballer now eh?

What a load of ****.

Apparently the goals he scored require more work than Messi's effortless strikes.

Some people are beyond clueless.

MaxPower89

SlickRic wrote: »

Jimmy Magee and Paul Kelly, Ireland's media representatives in the voting, didn't even have Messi in the top 3.

there aren't enough fúcking facepalms in the world.

well done lads.

Who did they vote for?

eagle eye

MaxPower89 wrote: »

Who did they vote for?

Jimmy voted for Pele, Maradona and George Best.

Cienciano

eagle eye wrote: »

Jimmy voted for Pele, Maradona and George Best.

Think "Irelands golden girl" Michelle Smith actually got his first vote.

darced

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eyescreamcone

How Jimmy Magee and Paul Kelly think Messi is not in the top 3 is just amazing.

DoctorGonzo08

darced wrote: »

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That's a bit of a silly response. It's not about how good you look playing, it's about effectivness. In fairness, Ronaldo does alot more than just run around taking pop shots. IMO he is the ultimate professional, he has continually worked on his game, discipline, and technique, to be able to play with both feet, and even optimise his posture when running to be able to 'sprint about' whilst keeping up his stamina.

Messi and Ronaldo are completely different players, Messi is a naturally gifted footballer, Ronaldo has had to work very hard to be where he is. Both had an outstanding year last year and it was very close. But you have to look at how their individual performances best effected their teams? And on that, I think Ronaldo had the better year.

If the achievments were reversed, do you think Ronaldo would have won it on the back of scoring more goals? I don't think so.

eyescreamcone

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

That's a bit of a silly response. It's not about how good you look playing, it's about effectivness. In fairness, Ronaldo does alot more than just run around taking pop shots. IMO he is the ultimate professional, he has continually worked on his game, discipline, and technique, to be able to play with both feet, and even optimise his posture when running to be able to 'sprint about' whilst keeping up his stamina.

Messi and Ronaldo are completely different players, Messi is a naturally gifted footballer, Ronaldo has had to work very hard to be where he is. Both had an outstanding year last year and it was very close. But you have to look at how their individual performances best effected their teams? And on that, I think Ronaldo had the better year.

If the achievments were reversed, do you think Ronaldo would have won it on the back of scoring more goals? I don't think so.

Both have worked very hard to be where they are today (natural talent is a myth).

Ronaldo is a super player but Messi just keeps besting him.
There is a big gap to third though, in my opinion.

DoctorGonzo08

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Both have worked very hard to be where they are today (natural talent is a myth).

Ronaldo is a super player but Messi just keeps besting him.
There is a big gap to third though, in my opinion.

I really don't agree with natural talent being a myth, it is fairly obvious that some just have an ability that puts them ahead of others, in every walk of life, not just soccer. I'm not saying Messi hasn't worked to get where he is, but I do believe Ronaldo has worked harder.

darced

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smokedeels

Why did Alves represent Portugal as Captain? I thought Ronaldo was theirs.

eyescreamcone

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I really don't agree with natural talent being a myth, it is fairly obvious that some just have an ability that puts them ahead of others, in every walk of life, not just soccer. I'm not saying Messi hasn't worked to get where he is, but I do believe Ronaldo has worked harder.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is different.

Maybe if you read the following book you'd be more enlightened (and maybe not)

Bounce: The Myth of Talent and the Power of Practice. Matthew Sayed

Seans_Username

Why did Alves represent Portugal as Captain? I thought Ronaldo was theirs.

Someone said a few pages ago that Ronaldo just gave his voting duties to Alves. Not sure why.

darced wrote: »

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That post there has been bugging me for a while. You seem to enjoy Ronaldo losing more than Messi winning. Almost like a 'ABR' (anyone but Ronaldo) attitude

Messi had an incredible year, so did Ronaldo. I'd say Messi deserved the award but Ronaldo has a good shout as to why he should get it too (the trophies mainly). He works his arse off to be as good as he is and that's admirable.

darced wrote: »

Dry your eyes guys,Ronaldo sprints about blasting shots off every chance he gets its just not as attractive a style.

Aye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMpPBmrZib8

It's the only video I could find so don't complain about the quality

Seriously lad, think about what you post first because you've come out with some grand sweeping statements in this thread

darced

This post has been deleted.

DoctorGonzo08

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is different.

Maybe if you read the following book you'd be more enlightened (and maybe not)

Bounce: The Myth of Talent and the Power of Practice. Matthew Sayed

So your opinion is derived from someone else's opinion? As you said, each to their own. But to say I'm not enlightened sounds a little bit pretentious.

I base my opinion on basic common sense and not positive thinking. The ability to perform a given task is determined based on psychologial and physical attributes combined with a nurturing programme. If you don't posses one or both of the first two, there is nothing to improve on. By any other reasoning you assume anybody can do anything if they work hard enough? So why aern't we all professional footballers on big money contracts? Because we didn't work hard enough? Nonesense, no amount of hard work was going to put my ability anywhere near the likes of Messi or Ronaldo.

Iang87

The greatest compliment to Ronaldo is that until it was announced it might have been him that got it. Messi had a year that may never be topped and even then ronaldo was there almost with him.

eyescreamcone

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

So your opinion is derived from someone else's opinion? As you said, each to their own. But to say I'm not enlightened sounds a little bit pretentious.

I base my opinion on basic common sense and not positive thinking. The ability to perform a given task is determined based on psychologial and physical attributes combined with a nurturing programme. If you don't posses one or both of the first two, there is nothing to improve on. By any other reasoning you assume anybody can do anything if they work hard enough? So why aern't we all professional footballers on big money contracts? Because we didn't work hard enough? Nonesense, no amount of hard work was going to put my ability anywhere near the likes of Messi or Ronaldo.

Who mentioned positive thinking?

Sayed says that with the proper AMOUNT of CORRECT training anybody can be a champion.

In some sports genetics will play a part.
You won't win lineouts in international rugby if you're 5' 10".

Football is played by all sizes. Thus implying that genetics have little input.
Small: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta
Big: Ibrahimovic, Crouch, Drogba.

They were not born with their skills - all their skills were learnt - better by some.

For anyone who uses the excuse of "I just didn't have the ability".
I say, "You didn't practice hard enough or long enough at the right age".

This is the same for ability at Maths or football.

DoctorGonzo08

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Who mentioned positive thinking?

Sayed says that with the proper AMOUNT of CORRECT training anybody can be a champion.

In some sports genetics will play a part.
You won't win lineouts in international rugby if you're 5' 10".

Football is played by all sizes. Thus implying that genetics have little input.
Small: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta
Big: Ibrahimovic, Crouch, Drogba.

They were not born with their skills - all their skills were learnt - better by some.

For anyone who uses the excuse of "I just didn't have the ability".
I say, "You didn't practice hard enough or long enough at the right age".

This is the same for ability at Maths or football.

Firstly, of course genetics play apart. Your example above. The 'small' players have a low centre of gravity and light build, ideal for a playmaking type of player who can turn quickly and have greater balance on the ball than taller/bigger players. Similarily your 'big' players are all target men at front of the attack, their height and strength are an advantage whilst trying to win a high ball or set piece but also for holding up play.

To quote your words in caps 'Amount' and 'Correct' just give a bs cover to prove this guys opinion. If it works out for a guy it was because he did the right amount of correct training. If it dosen't then he didn't.

Finally you have said some have learned their skills better than some. Does that not imply others have a different potential or ability? Or has Xavi being slacking off, or maybe he was training during the day when he should be doing it at night?

Essentially if his claims are true they would go along way to disproof Darwin's theory of evolution.

Blatter

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Firstly, of course genetics play apart. Your example above. The 'small' players have a low centre of gravity and light build, ideal for a playmaking type of player who can turn quickly and have greater balance on the ball than taller/bigger players. Similarily your 'big' players are all target men at front of the attack, their height and strength are an advantage whilst trying to win a high ball or set piece but also for holding up play.

To quote your words in caps 'Amount' and 'Correct' just give a bs cover to prove this guys opinion. If it works out for a guy it was because he did the right amount of correct training. If it dosen't then he didn't.

Finally you have said some have learned their skills better than some. Does that not imply others have a different potential or ability? Or has Xavi being slacking off, or maybe he was training during the day when he should be doing it at night?

Essentially if his claims are true they would go along way to disproof Darwin's theory of evolution.

Do you think it's coincidence that arguably four of the greatest players of all time in Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets all came together and found eachother at the Barca youth academy around the same time?

Or do you think it's more got to do with the fact that the Barca academy has exceptional training techniques and is run expertly?

dreamers75

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Who mentioned positive thinking?

Sayed says that with the proper AMOUNT of CORRECT training anybody can be a champion.

In some sports genetics will play a part.
You won't win lineouts in international rugby if you're 5' 10".

Football is played by all sizes. Thus implying that genetics have little input.
Small: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta
Big: Ibrahimovic, Crouch, Drogba.

They were not born with their skills - all their skills were learnt - better by some.

For anyone who uses the excuse of "I just didn't have the ability".
I say, "You didn't practice hard enough or long enough at the right age".

This is the same for ability at Maths or football.

Ability doesnt come from practice, application does. The ability is already there its how its applied that is worked on.

eyescreamcone

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Firstly, of course genetics play apart. Your example above. The 'small' players have a low centre of gravity and light build, ideal for a playmaking type of player who can turn quickly and have greater balance on the ball than taller/bigger players. Similarily your 'big' players are all target men at front of the attack, their height and strength are an advantage whilst trying to win a high ball or set piece but also for holding up play.

To quote your words in caps 'Amount' and 'Correct' just give a bs cover to prove this guys opinion. If it works out for a guy it was because he did the right amount of correct training. If it dosen't then he didn't.

Finally you have said some have learned their skills better than some. Does that not imply others have a different potential or ability? Or has Xavi being slacking off, or maybe he was training during the day when he should be doing it at night?

Essentially if his claims are true they would go along way to disproof Darwin's theory of evolution.

No it doesn't!!!
It means that some have trained harder and longer than others.

The mix of body types in football would suggest that genetics does not play that big a factor. The majority of players are neither big or small when compared with the general population.

Obviously somebody with inherited super fast twitch muscles could be able to run faster than most of his peers but it takes a lot of training to turn this athletic youth into a Ronaldo.



The 2012 Olympics were a big success for GB. (In 1996 they won only one gold medal)
65% of their 2012 medalists came from privately funded schools.
A lot less than 65% of the general GB population go to private schools.

These athletes' success can be more than partly attributed to the excellent training and facilities present in their schools.

"Natural Talent" is a myth - developed by underachievers to explain away their poor performance.

Interesting isn't it?

miralize

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No it doesn't!!!
It means that some have trained harder and longer than others.

The mix of body types in football would suggest that genetics does not play that big a factor. The majority of players are neither big or small when compared with the general population.

Obviously somebody with inherited super fast twitch muscles could be able to run faster than most of his peers but it takes a lot of training to turn this athletic youth into a Ronaldo.



The 2012 Olympics were a big success for GB. (In 1996 they won only one gold medal)
65% of their 2012 medalists came from privately funded schools.
A lot less than 65% of the general GB population go to private schools.

These athletes' success can be more than partly attributed to the excellent training and facilities present in their schools.

"Natural Talent" is a myth - developed by underachievers to explain away their poor performance.

Interesting isn't it?

Saying "interesting isnt it?" at the end doesnt invalidate any other opinion.

Messi has natural talent. You could see it from the videos of him age 5 in Rosario that he was a level above others. Thats not to say that he didnt have to try to get to the point he is here now. The physical changes he had to go through meant that he had to work harder to strengthen himself to get himself to the height he is now.

He also remains entirely grounded, something Ronaldo isnt known for. It's not a reason for a ballon d'or but it is one of my own reasons why I think of him as one of the best ever.

Turtwig

miralize wrote: »

Saying "interesting isnt it?" at the end doesnt invalidate any other opinion.

Messi has natural talent. You could see it from the videos of him age 5 in Rosario that he was a level above others. Thats not to say that he didnt have to try to get to the point he is here now. The physical changes he had to go through meant that he had to work harder to strengthen himself to get himself to the height he is now.

He also remains entirely grounded, something Ronaldo isnt known for. It's not a reason for a ballon d'or but it is one of my own reasons why I think of him as one of the best ever.

How long was Messi playing football when those videos were made? How often was he practicing everyday? Who was training him? What was his diet? How was his over all health? What else was his brain and body resources being used on? Was he being educated in other skills to a comparable level, was his neurological development optimised for football? What were his personal motivations?

Nobody disputes that people have slight edges, but a lot of people give far too much stock to natural talent. Put it another way, if you think people can have natural talents then you also have to become more open to the possibility of people being natural born psychopaths, murderers, rapists, etc.
Obviously just because something is discomforting doesn't mean it's true (or false).

eyescreamcone

Everybody's opinion is valid except maybe Jimmy Magee

darced

This post has been deleted.

eyescreamcone

Genetics have been kind to Bolt.
But you don't win back to back 100m gold playing play station and eating sausage sandwiches every day. If Bolt says he doesn't train hard then I immediately think of the guy who gets 625 points in the Leaving Cert and says he never studies

darced

This post has been deleted.

DoctorGonzo08

Blatter wrote: »

Do you think it's coincidence that arguably four of the greatest players of all time in Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets all came together and found eachother at the Barca youth academy around the same time?

Or do you think it's more got to do with the fact that the Barca academy has exceptional training techniques and is run expertly?

Arguably is the right word when trying to drop Busquets into the greatest player of all time. This is a regular occurrance with youth development. Look at the Utd set of Beckham, Scholes, Neville. Look at Ajax early 90's production. If the academy is the perfect football factory, why have they only produced these four of note?

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No it doesn't!!!
It means that some have trained harder and longer than others.

The mix of body types in football would suggest that genetics does not play that big a factor. The majority of players are neither big or small when compared with the general population.

Obviously somebody with inherited super fast twitch muscles could be able to run faster than most of his peers but it takes a lot of training to turn this athletic youth into a Ronaldo.

The 2012 Olympics were a big success for GB. (In 1996 they won only one gold medal)
65% of their 2012 medalists came from privately funded schools.
A lot less than 65% of the general GB population go to private schools.

These athletes' success can be more than partly attributed to the excellent training and facilities present in their schools.

"Natural Talent" is a myth - developed by underachievers to explain away their poor performance.

Interesting isn't it?

Is what interesting? Your inability to follow a debate? Body types range over footballers in general, but what 4ft centre halves or goalkeppers do you see? What 7ft playmakers do you see. Based on your build/ability you are suited to a position/role.

So what club are you playing for Mr. President? Or are you an underachiever who doesn't use excuses?

Jernal wrote: »

How long was Messi playing football when those videos were made? How often was he practicing everyday? Who was training him? What was his diet? How was his over all health? What else was his brain and body resources being used on? Was he being educated in other skills to a comparable level, was his neurological development optimised for football? What were his personal motivations?

Nobody disputes that people have slight edges, but a lot of people give far too much stock to natural talent. Put it another way, if you think people can have natural talents then you also have to become more open to the possibility of people being natural born psychopaths, murderers, rapists, etc.
Obviously just because something is discomforting doesn't mean it's true (or false).

Stay on topic. Natural ability/talent to become top in your field is completely different to visious crime. Seperate issue of nurture vs environment. You are not born to be anything. Everyone is born with different abailities, a genetic lottery. Practice at your strengths will result in you realising your ability.

marbless

Did anyone see Revista de la Liga on Sky last night? They discussed the Ballon d'Or result. Guillem Balague speculated that under the current system of making the award a player like the German Sammer, who won it back in 1996, wouldn't stand a chance. Graeme Hunter said the new voting system works in favour of "celebrity" players, and that the voting criteria are looser than they used to be. Looks like Messi for years to come:D

iregk

dreamers75 wrote: »

this is the piece i presume? My man utd loving brother just shared it on facebook


It is awarded based on votes by coaches and captains of international teams, as well as journalists from around the world.


I was bored yesterday in work and messing with excel i counted 36 people didnt vote Messi in any category.

Lowe, Ronaldo, portugal coach? portugal captain (alves?) the most high profile i could find.

That wasn't the article in question that I was referring to but I suppose that one does raise similar valid arguments.

mufcboy1999

miralize wrote: »

Saying "interesting isnt it?" at the end doesnt invalidate any other opinion.

Messi has natural talent. You could see it from the videos of him age 5 in Rosario that he was a level above others. Thats not to say that he didnt have to try to get to the point he is here now. The physical changes he had to go through meant that he had to work harder to strengthen himself to get himself to the height he is now.

He also remains entirely grounded, something Ronaldo isnt known for. It's not a reason for a ballon d'or but it is one of my own reasons why I think of him as one of the best ever.

Natural talent or artificial hormones being pumped into him ? It's a known fact he was on them to stimulate growth which would explain the increased performances as a kid anyway.

Genetics and messi are not two words id use in the same sentence due to his cycles with GH's.

Jelle1880

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Natural talent or artificial hormones being pumped into him ? It's a known fact he was on them to stimulate growth which would explain the increased performances as a kid anyway.

This **** again ?

He had a growth hormone deficiency, which is a medical condition.

No drug on earth can give you talent.

iregk

Jelle1880 wrote: »

He had a growth hormone deficiency, which is a medical condition.

I agree with your point that the drug obviously didn't give him talent. Is it a valid point however, and what are peoples opinions on it, that Messi is the worlds first genetically enhanced legal athlete?

He had a growth hormone deficiency which is his hand of cards that life dealt him. A different route was chosen (lets not get into reasons why) and he began taking a drug that is illegal at the top level of sports. I'm also led to believe and keep in mind that I may well be incorrect here but didn't Barca administer the drug for a full 2 years beyond when they were supposed to stop. Increasing his growth further from the initial projection.

mufcboy1999

Jelle1880 wrote: »

This **** again ?

He had a growth hormone deficiency, which is a medical condition.

No drug on earth can give you talent.

S*it again ?

Put any young kid/person on GH's and you'll notice an increase in performance in sport. Nobody's arguing his natural talent but nobody knows exactly what's going on either , for all we know he's still receiving treatment for hormone deficiency.

Could easily be kept under raps considering the two Spanish giants have Fifa in there back pockets.

That team of the year and vote had corruption all over it IMO. How on earth could you argue messi deserved it more than ronaldo based on last season, you just can't on one individual stat.

Jelle1880

Are you serious or just trolling ?

He had more goals, more assists, more complete passes,...

He pretty much outshone Ronaldo in every department.

As for the 'druuuuuuugs', giving someone growth hormone will not magically improve their performances in sport.
It will give people a fair chance to compete with people that do not suffer from GHD, but it will not improve your ball handling, your view of the game, your skills in shooting,...

As for 'for all we know he's still receiving treatment': Growth hormones are on the illegal substances list for sports and are easily detectable these days, do you honestly believe Barcelona bribe the officials to look the other way ?

Thecon21

Jeez the Messi on drugs stuff is cringy..

We all know Ronaldo is world class but in 2012 there was no better player than Messi.

Ronnie's had a good start this year with goals, maybe this could be his year..

mufcboy1999

Outshone ronaldo in every department bar trophys ! The single most important factor in defining a players season.

More goals are you serious? Messi plays up front as a striker ... Ronaldo is not a lone striker so to bag nearly 80 goals from the wing is even more impressive.

Credit had to be given to ronaldo for dragging a mediocre team in Portugal to semi's in the same season he pretty much single handily won Madrid the league while out performing messi in all the most recent el classicos.

Messi is a genetically enhanced footballer , you mightn't like the sounds of it but none the less it's a fact. He wasn't natural coming through the ranks and only god knows what was truly pumped into him as there's means and ways around all drug tests.

Turtyturd

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Outshone ronaldo in every department bar trophys ! The single most important factor in defining a players season.

More goals are you serious? Messi plays up front as a striker ... Ronaldo is not a lone striker so to bag nearly 80 goals from the wing is even more impressive.

Credit had to be given to ronaldo for dragging a mediocre team in Portugal to semi's in the same season he pretty much single handily won Madrid the league while out performing messi in all the most recent el classicos.

Messi is a genetically enhanced footballer , you mightn't like the sounds of it but none the less it's a fact. He wasn't natural coming through the ranks and only god knows what was truly pumped into him as there's means and ways around all drug tests.

While all your rant is laughable....the position Messi plays in and the position 'Ronnie' plays in doesn't change the fact that Messi actually did score more goals than him.

Some Liverpool fans are way OTT in their Benitez fan wankery but this Ronaldo stuff even puts that to shame.

Jelle1880

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Outshone ronaldo in every department bar trophys ! The single most important factor in defining a players season.

More goals are you serious? Messi plays up front as a striker ... Ronaldo is not a lone striker so to bag nearly 80 goals from the wing is even more impressive.

Credit had to be given to ronaldo for dragging a mediocre team in Portugal to semi's in the same season he pretty much single handily won Madrid the league while out performing messi in all the most recent el classicos.

Messi is a genetically enhanced footballer , you mightn't like the sounds of it but none the less it's a fact. He wasn't natural coming through the ranks and only god knows what was truly pumped into him as there's means and ways around all drug tests.

You mean like when he and his team-mates were destroying all before them with Newell's Old Boys ?

Prior to any treatment ?

But yeah, at least now we know you're just a little bit biased

mufcboy1999

Turtyturd wrote: »

While all your rant is laughable....the position Messi plays in and the position 'Ronnie' plays in doesn't change the fact that Messi actually did score more goals than him.

Some Liverpool fans are way OTT in their Benitez fan wankery but this Ronaldo stuff even puts that to shame.

So goals decide it, Can you honestly say scoring more goals in a season is a better achievement than actually winning trophys for your team ?

If that's the case that truly laughable. My god I'd hate to play on the same team as you, We havnt won the league lads but I'm the top goal scorer so that's all that matters get outta here lad would you.

Lads you can debate the drugs all you want it is a fact he was genetically enhanced.

elefant

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

S*it again ?

Nobody's arguing his natural talent but nobody knows exactly what's going on either , for all we know he's still receiving treatment for hormone deficiency.

Could easily be kept under raps considering the two Spanish giants have Fifa in there back pockets.

Wow. Tin-foil hat time.

Jelle1880

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

So goals decide it, Can you honestly say scoring more goals in a season is a better achievement than actually winning trophys for your team ?

If that's the case that truly laughable. My god I'd hate to play on the same team as you, We havnt won the league lads but I'm the top goal scorer so that's all that matters get outta here lad would you.

Lads you can debate the drugs all you want it is a fact he was genetically enhanced.

You don't know that the Ballon d'Or is not just a competition of who won what ?

It's a vote, his fellow professionals and coaches voted for him.

So apparently people actually involved in the game think his performance was better than Ronaldo's.

Dirty Barca fanboys the lot of them.

Turtyturd

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

So goals decide it, Can you honestly say scoring more goals in a season is a better achievement than actually winning trophys for your team ?

If that's the case that truly laughable. My god I'd hate to play on the same team as you, We havnt won the league lads but I'm the top goal scorer so that's all that matters get outta here lad would you.

Lads you can debate the drugs all you want it is a fact he was genetically enhanced.

You should learn to read properly, I never said goals decide it. I think you're taking this harder than Ronaldo did.

Bodhisopha

iregk wrote: »

I agree with your point that the drug obviously didn't give him talent. Is it a valid point however, and what are peoples opinions on it, that Messi is the worlds first genetically enhanced legal athlete?

He had a growth hormone deficiency which is his hand of cards that life dealt him. A different route was chosen (lets not get into reasons why) and he began taking a drug that is illegal at the top level of sports. I'm also led to believe and keep in mind that I may well be incorrect here but didn't Barca administer the drug for a full 2 years beyond when they were supposed to stop. Increasing his growth further from the initial projection.

It's not a valid point, really. He received treatment for a medical condition to bring his growth hormone production to a normal level for a kid of his age, you know, an even playing field. By the time he was competing as a professional he would pass any drug testing you could throw at him, the drugs were out of his system. The only lasting effect being he was a relatively normal sized kid for his age.

klose

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Outshone ronaldo in every department bar trophys ! The single most important factor in defining a players season.

More goals are you serious? Messi plays up front as a striker ... Ronaldo is not a lone striker so to bag nearly 80 goals from the wing is even more impressive.

Credit had to be given to ronaldo for dragging a mediocre team in Portugal to semi's in the same season he pretty much single handily won Madrid the league while out performing messi in all the most recent el classicos.

Messi is a genetically enhanced footballer , you mightn't like the sounds of it but none the less it's a fact. He wasn't natural coming through the ranks and only god knows what was truly pumped into him as there's means and ways around all drug tests.

Ronaldo didnt drag portugal to the semis stop kidding yourself and lets not forget him not taking a penelty in the shootout and instead letting big bruno alves nearly split the crossbar in two. Your genetically enhanced spiel is embaressing tbh just like when anyone drags up that point