Advice on dealing with aftermath of conflict with boss

gabria

Hello,
The one-year anniversary of my time with a medical company in the UK has passed and its fair to say that the majority of the colleagues in the company are pleased with how I have settled in. I would say the same, only I have been suffering a bit of stress in my relationship with the boss and we are both trying to work out how to deal with a recent argument that effectively ended with me telling him where to go
The manager by his admission is a control freak who demands maximum efforts from his staff and consultants to complete projects by agreed timelines, or, with acceptable reasons given with reasonable notice, agreed revised timelines. I either complete some projects myself or interact in long-distance communication with peer colleagues and consultants, supporting and chasing them to complete others. To his credit, he steps in and supports me when my middle-management fails, and is very assertive to get the "Do it or else" ultimatum across
He is generally less laid-back about projects than other managers I have worked under in my career. For high priority projects, he sets deadlines that certainly push me out of the comfort zone, I really cannot go more than a day without getting updates by phone and email. Usually a daily update is nothing more than what he may have already read on an email where he has been in copy. About every couple of days, he asks me questions on the status of projects, he may already have information in the emails, but he does not read all of his emails, he gets a lot and only deals directly with urgent ones that are mostly unrelated to my projects.
I am very uncomfortable with the intensity of which he throws the questions at me, on all projects irrespective of priority. The common questions like "Has it been done" "When do you think it will it be done?" "Why hasn't it been done?" "What have we agreed with (other colleague / consultant)" "Have you made sure (colleague/ consultant)has everything to get this done?" "The ball is in whose court, ours or (colleague / consultant)?" "You don't know, so when can you find out?" of course all are reasonable, but they can follow one another in rapid-fire sequence like a lawyer would challenge a witness in court. They can be thrown two in one sentence , and he frequently interrupts me during my answers to ask other questions. Uninterrupted perfectly good answers apart from confirmation of project completion usually are met with an expressionless face and swiftly changed subject, subject can change so that I have think of statuses of other projects without having adequate reference notes to quickly retrieve, he interrupts me in the middle of my own projects to ask me if I have completed them yet then pulls me later out of my pre-deadline task completion to answer questions on an unrelated topic sometimes with the result that I fall into a teleconference meeting or something else completely distracting. He is in the office two or three days a week, one day a week I have to prepare for intense questioning and interruptions
One Friday afternoon, I gave him a phone that he had to mind to manage medical enquiries while I was on leave for some days the following week. This triggered him to ask some questions on a relatively low priority project, the follow-up activities to a company inspection in the summer, which should be completed by the middle of next year at the latest. I explained that because we were both in a teleconference to get the latest update on one of our highest priority projects I was unable to participate in another teleconference where colleagues were discussing the inspection follow-up. It was very late and I was under pressure to complete documents to email to a colleague to take care of in my absence. I answered abruptly that we would need to discuss in detail after my return, I definitely had no time to ring around for a quick update. He then tried to ask me well, what did X and Y promise this particular task before, when do you think we can find out etc. My mind was blank, I had to say "Listen, sorry we really need to tackle this after my return, it'll only be two days , we can find out properly then" He repeated his questions, I raised my hand with a stop gesture and walked out of his office.
When I got back to my desk in a room that I shared with another colleague, he had followed me and bore down on me, insisting that I answer him. I said no , and in a gradually raised voice, said he was like a dog with a bone with his stupid questions and I was fed up with them. He got angry, called me insubordinate, that we would need to discuss this argument immediately after my return and stormed back to his office. I was able to complete my work on time, it did help that my other colleague discussed another matter with him. This colleague came out later to reassure me "He does this to all of us, don't let it get to you etc." I also apologised that he had to hear the argument, I knew immediately that my reaction was wrong
After my two days leave, due to a combination of nerves and exhaustion that brought on a mild fever, I took a sick day. I came back to work still a bit tired but my boss was still adamant to discuss the argument straightaway. He asked me what was wrong, and I explained my problems with his management style, although very much summarised version of what I have explained above. He asked me to think of a way that we can discuss projects in a less intense manner, but warned me that he was not going to change to manage me in a way that means I get special treatment compared to the rest of the staff. I explained that I did not expect this, and I also assured him that my outburst was very out of character and will definitely not happen again.
The next step for me to take is to discuss with the HR manager if there are any ways that the other two colleagues would like the manager to change so that he treats all of us equally better . I am a little unsettled in the town where I work and I am not sure I have the long-term commitment to back my boss and colleagues in a new plan where we all agree to modify our behaviours to minimise conflicts. I am not sure also that the boss will agree to our wishes, I think fundamentally he is a bully, I have never accused him of being one and he would flatly deny that he is capable of even mild bullying.
So.....it would be appreciated to hear opinions before or after my HR discussion...... is this guy really a bully and should I be rid of this job, or am I too sensitive and should toughen up appropriately to continue

StillWaters

I'm not sure he is a bully. He sounds like a tough task master, and the environment sounds pressurised and frenetic.

What suggestions did you come up with as to how you would like to be managed? You do sound very stressed OP, do you actually enjoy the work?

krd

gabria wrote: »

I am not sure also that the boss will agree to our wishes, I think fundamentally he is a bully, I have never accused him of being one and he would flatly deny that he is capable of even mild bullying.

I would say he is a bully. Bullies try to get you in a state of fear. If the others are saying he's doing the same to them, then he is a bully.

There could also be a culture of bullying in the company. In a lot of companies - especially the scuzzy ones, they try to get everyone on disciplinary warnings when they're barely in the door. It's to keep everyone in a state of fear and depression, so they'll be take more abuse and they won't fight back. But, more often than not, bullies will just bully for the sake of it. If people are upset and stressed all the time they can't put a good days work in - and they will get sick. Bullying is probably the biggest cause of absenteeism.

Beware of anyone who comes out with the "tough taskmaster" or "just keeping you on your toes" nonsense. These people are bullies too. They're just trying to look out for each other. They're up to it themselves.

I would be very careful with the situation. These places are awful. Within a few months you could be deeply depressed (enough that you need medical attention), you'll have a terrible view of life an will feel hopeless. Your bullying boss will sack you, and make it difficult for you to get another job.

Just because someone "gives" you a job, does not give them the right to damage your health.

StillWaters

krd wrote: »

Beware of anyone who comes out with the "tough taskmaster" or "just keeping you on your toes" nonsense. These people are bullies too. They're just trying to look out for each other. They're up to it themselves.
.

Are you referring to me?

krd

StillWaters wrote: »

Are you referring to me?

No, I was just being a "tough task master", "keeping you on your toes".

I know you're doing a great job here. But to keep you doing that great job I need to "manage" you. Not have you feeling too great about yourself. It's for your own good. I need you to feel paranoid and constantly worried, so you'll keep up the good work. I have to keep a close eye on you - make sure you're up on your toes all the time.

And it hurts me more, than it hurts you. But that's just the way the world works. You'd do just the same to me if you were in same position. Anyone who thinks any different is just a fool. When people complain about bullying at work, what they're really complaining about is good, traditional Irish management.

Still, don't be insulted, I'm just "managing" you, because I'm a "tough task master".

gabria

StillWaters wrote: »

I'm not sure he is a bully. He sounds like a tough task master, and the environment sounds pressurised and frenetic.

What suggestions did you come up with as to how you would like to be managed? You do sound very stressed OP, do you actually enjoy the work?

The office is intense when he's there, no doubt. He says it has to be, because he has limited time to get up to date with all that we have been doing. Once he is away, the relief is immense. I still work industriously but take more time to interact with the other two colleagues and generally get on very well with them

I just want him to reduce the intensity of questioning with all the interruptions, it would be great if this is something that the other colleagues would agree to, rather than grin and bear as they have for a longer period

I am stressed, I think I should reduce my work intensity to counter this. I enjoy most of the work, the subjects of those clashing teleconferences on the day of my outburst were not my favourite responsibilities but hey thats work and I don't demand a cushy job by any means. But I do demand more respect from a boss, and if this "traditional management approach" aka just a bit of mild bullying to "keep me on my toes" is going to continue then I'll just have to eventually run away

Eoin

@krd, please try and make your points without the passive aggressive sniping.

krd

gabria wrote: »

The office is intense when he's there, no doubt. He says it has to be, because he has limited time to get up to date with all that we have been doing. Once he is away, the relief is immense. I still work industriously but take more time to interact with the other two colleagues and generally get on very well with them

That sounds like the classic bullying (and incompetent) manager. The disruptions and tension are to keep everyone off balance. Disruption is a bullying tactic.

I just want him to reduce the intensity of questioning with all the interruptions, it would be great if this is something that the other colleagues would agree to, rather than grin and bear as they have for a longer period

It depends on your company. If your team are getting bullied, you should all keep diaries of the incidents. Then you can approach human resources. It's a problem in some companies though, where there's a "protect the bully" mentality. Other companies they take it seriously. It's worth a try.

I am stressed, I think I should reduce my work intensity to counter this. I enjoy most of the work, the subjects of those clashing teleconferences on the day of my outburst were not my favourite responsibilities but hey thats work and I don't demand a cushy job by any means. But I do demand more respect from a boss, and if this "traditional management approach" aka just a bit of mild bullying to "keep me on my toes" is going to continue then I'll just have to eventually run away

The project of a bully, anywhere; work, school, or the family, is to wear everyone down. They are literally trying to make you sick. Just a few months of constant bullying can have a terrible effect on your physical and mental health. It can give you a really distorted view of the world. It can destroy your relationships outside of work.

So, take care, and don't let the barsteward grind you down.

gabria

So I had the meeting with the HR manager, and I think it was promising.
It was not easy for her as she has to wear the unbiased HR hat when the rest of the time she wears the hat of the boss's PA and has been treated not very well in the past. But she did not hesitate to speak about her own treatment, before I started she was also once chased around the office by him after one dispute ! I suggested to her if we could speak to the other colleague and then we all ask the boss to modify his behaviour together. However, she thought it may provoke a rash backlash from him if he perceives that we are ganging up on him. She suggested that I have a clear-the-air one-to-one meeting, preceded by a letter in which I try to honestly list my issues.

I think the letter is a good idea although I really want to put this conflict behind me and don't want to spend too long at it. It will begin with complimenting the boss that, at the end of the day, he admits that I do a good job, and he does not tolerate a laid-back culture of office "messing", before I sensitively address the issues. I will have to figure out how I can get him to act in the happy medium between too laid-back and too authoritarian

Dubwat

I wonder if the problem is further up the management chain? Are people shouting at him and he's passing it on? Because it seems like a bizarre way to manage a team. It's micro-management in the extreme.

It sounds like you've got several projects on the go at the same time but they have different deadlines. It seems to me it would be much more productive if you and your colleagues had separate meetings every week or month with the manager and set out your targets for the week/month ahead. Put them in writing* and let you do your jobs?

As the manager/senior person, he should have faith in you to do your jobs. And also trust you to go to him if you hit any roadblocks.



* Plus, having these written targets will prove if you did your job properly when the annual assessment(/bonus time) comes around...

delthedriver

This sounds like a classic case of bullying. Your employers have a duty of care to you as an employee. They should have in place a policy of anti bullying. The whole scenario appears extremely difficult and stressful. Keep a diary, noting incidents, conversations, copies of emails with your boss. Tread carefully , continue to do your job to the best of your ability. In current economic times work environments can be extremely pressurised, nonetheless protecting your health is extremely important. Remember there are laws to protect you.
Hopefully the situation can be resolved asap. Best wishes

areyawell

Just sounds to me like you are working in an office that is understaffed and that you could do with another person in your team or another manager. Your manager is probably under pressure to have things done well on time from other colleagues or he will face the trouble not ye. He is probably managing a group of teams and this is why he is so stressed out to keep on top of everything. The manager could easily go to HR himself and say that he does not think you are up to scratch for the role and they need someone new. The manager knows you are capable of doing the work. It seems like your manager stressed. How many other teams does the manager have? Does you manager have a lot of work to get through? Just really seems like the manager is stressed out with the workload and so are ye and just need another employee or two to ease the burden

BostonB

Dubwat wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is further up the management chain? Are people shouting at him and he's passing it on? Because it seems like a bizarre way to manage a team. It's micro-management in the extreme.

It sounds like you've got several projects on the go at the same time but they have different deadlines. It seems to me it would be much more productive if you and your colleagues had separate meetings every week or month with the manager and set out your targets for the week/month ahead. Put them in writing* and let you do your jobs?

As the manager/senior person, he should have faith in you to do your jobs. And also trust you to go to him if you hit any roadblocks.



* Plus, having these written targets will prove if you did your job properly when the annual assessment(/bonus time) comes around...

I couldn't agree with this more. Extreme micro-management.

You need written measurable objectives.
A set Question and answers time set aside.
No random interruptions constantly through the day.

seefin

It might not work if hes someone into micromanaging but why not send him a progress support on all your projects on a weekly basis. Do ye have any IT system that helps to manage projects? If he was able to see targets,whether ye are on track etc,then ye would have more of a case for encouraging him to back off. He doesn't seem to have a clue himself about management if hes focusing on low priority job. Its soul destroying working in a place like that, it really messes with your head-if you can do up project plans and make effort to keep upto date then you can just keep repeating 'check the plan\list' when he starts his barrage of questions!

gabria

Thanks for the advices everyone, I do make summary updates on some of my targets but in fairness, I don't send him the updated versions as often as I should. Perhaps more regular updates would cut down the questioning, but he is a busy man and I would have to nag him a lot to read them

Other targets he gives me though are rather poorly defined, and are going now to be apparently all dumped onto a new colleague that starts next month. This new colleague is the main reason why I am trying to make a go to stay in this job. Hopefully he will defuse tension as he also relieves workload of another colleague. Will this new colleague also relieve any pressure on the boss? Truthfully I don't understand well what kind of pressure may be on him, he is rather expressionless most of the time, he only got angry really in response to my outburst

Well I got down to writing this letter to him to address my issues. Unfortunately writing it during last week was a bit painful & I only left it with the HR manager yesterday so she could review it to ensure that theres nothing too personal in it

In the meantime, he has seemed to have moved on in his own mind and was up to his old tricks again as we had a conversation on a task I did a few months with a risk that it would backfire, which it did last week. He flatly denied ordering me to do it, and unfortunately I didn't have any email evidence to allow me to argue. This point on his verbal ordering often not replicated on documentation is an example of another problem with him I didn't mention before, namely his exploitation of my naivety/inexperience ( he has at least a decade more experience on me), I addressed this point in addition to the relentless quizzing on my letter. The letter was censored from a longer cathartic version that I have kept to refer to for our hopeful "clear-the-air" meeting. I hope that the HR manager does not dilute it down any further, she did advise me to put a "Letter without Prejudice" title at the start. No points on it are made that I would not be afraid to say to the managers face. The balls in HRs court……..

BostonB

Personally I would refuse to do anything unless it was documented.
If they won't do it. I'll write up and email them it before starting it.
I'd also have a job list written up in a shared location so everyone concerned can search it.
I'd also keep a backup myself of all the above in case there's an IT failure and it goes missing.

Apart from covering your own butt, this system make disorganised people become organised as they won't commit utter nonsense to print, that they will verbally. It also allows everyone to search it, so no one has to keep asking the same questions repeatedly, and they can find out the answers themselves rather than interrupting you.

Anywhere I've ever worked, even if they resisted this with a passion over time everyone always comes around to it. It just saves so much time and hassle.

delthedriver

Meanwhile take good care of your health. Your GP could be your greatest support now.

gabria

Hey I hope that it works for me to resurrect this thread that started in Oct 2012. Its probably best to read my first and last post on my issues and note that there was the promise of a new colleague arriving to alleviate me & my manager of workload pressures and give my manager a bit of space to treat me better in the office

Well I am still with this company as the manager has for the most part left me well alone. However this has not happened the way I wanted and I have been for a few months seeking opportunity to move to another job

The reason is that the micro-management tactics he employed are now directed almost totally on this new colleague who is the most mild-mannered, nicest chap you could ever imagine. Because he is dealing with customer service, he has a lot more urgent tasks to complete (as opposed to the smaller number of highly important but less urgent preparatory & follow-up tasks that are my responsibility) . Whilst the boss is in the office, he frequently pulls him away from his desk where he has a mountain of supply orders to clear in order to sit in long teleconferences where his purpose is to answer a handful of questions (with answers that he may already easily find by quick reference to email, although he never checks all his emails!). When the boss is out of office, it is great relief for me and my other colleagues “wahey! Cats away so the mice can play!” sort of thing. Not so for my poor customer service guy who sits opposite me shaking his head and cursing as he answers phone call after phone call from my boss asking stuff like “Has this been done?” “When do you think you did it?” “Can you send me summary email on blah-blah-blah?” (email which he might not read) “Did you tell them this, that, this delays not acceptable?” . Of course he is the messenger to be shot with most of the bad news which most of the time is to tell customers that they won’t receive their stock due to a better excuse that he has make up instead of the truth that Mr. Suave Sales Rep (our boss) cannot stop promising customers stock that he knows we are not going to get into our storage warehouse for months!

I feel quite guilty despite offering the new colleague good support on our shared jobs. Its really because the bosses treatment of him is almost comical at times and hard not to laugh at. If I was in doubt that he was a bully to me before (as one poster in 2012 suggested he was just a tough task master that has to be dealt with to keep on ones toes in the workplace) I am certainly in no doubt now that he is a candidate for sequel to this years upcoming film Horrible Bosses 2! My very kind-hearted HR who helped me back in 2012 is still here and unfortunately has received some renewed bad treatment from him too, about more personal matters (taking time off for hospital treatments etc.) She agrees wholeheartedly with me. So does our sound finance co-ordinator who is totally blanked by him when he walks in the office somedays . This is because he used to carry out the customer service tasks outside his proper job description, but now that he is not needed for this anymore the boss just asks him a handful of questions about payments and salaries being conducted on time and after this takes no interest in what he does professionally or personally. Frequent visitors to our office are also picking up on the tense atmosphere in our office due to him. One very nice contractor during his second visit to the office was overwhelmed by a seemingly antagonistic reaction from the boss to every proposal or recommendation he put forward for helping the company progress. The most frequent visitor is the bosses own boss who joined the companys parent company midway last year to more closely monitor his activities. He is aware that the situation is not right but despite being a nicer more effective person manager seems like too much a busy man to step in and fix it.

I am seeking to relocate more for personal reasons outside the companys concern, its just that I am a little unsettled in where I live in the south of England. The issues described above are really secondary factor. But significant factor. However, the salary is mercifully good and I am very financially comfortable. I am also very good at the job and if this boss won’t still acknowledge this, acknowledgement from my colleagues, long-time contractors and increasingly also the bosses boss is enough to motivate me. I have created a considerable comfort zone with my established work , but new interesting challenges crop up every now and then. If the job was in a place where I felt more at home, I would probably stay in it. What is the opinion on this situation? Should I be staying in a job that is well-paid and has the right challenge balance but has a boss that is clearly a nightmare in his continuing maltreatment of a nice guy who was fed up with the situation ages ago but unfortunately does not have capacity to move jobs as easily as I can. Or should I just bite the bullet and get the hell out of the place without further hesitation, on as nice terms as possible with the boss giving the required notice, but privately citing among colleagues the reason that someone had to take a stand and show that guys like this have to be deserted, one by one.

Apologies for the somewhat cathartic nature of this reviving post. However, note that I genuinely believe that I now stand up very well for myself against my boss and my colleagues find it generally hilarious the way I stick up for them in front of him (often using contractor visitors to this effect). I am not stressed anymore and relish every working week! J

gabria

Anyone awake? Any comments? Maybe I should put this on a new thread, might do it at the weekend

beauf

Its bullying. If you haven't experienced it, you might confuse it with someone being a hard task master. But the difference is it serves no purpose. It wastes time and achieves nothing. TBH its usually a bit more subtle and only or two are the focus, and its not obvious to other people. I don't think people like that ever change. So either they move on or you do. The real shame is that it has a massive effect on those targeted. So the bullying often becomes self fulfilling.

My advice would be to try and move, laterally in a company away from a bully like this. If that's not possible then I'd just look for something else. But don't rush it. Changing a job takes time, and you might need to change jobs a few times to find what you want.

Seems for you, its not that much an issue, if they are no longer focused on you.

gabria

I really wish I didn't have to leave this job as there are so many interesting challenges for this company, a fledgeling operation in pharma
I thought about increasingly sidelining him, and reporting progress more often to his own boss, who actually takes notice of emails even though he is busy. This guy would be the outlet I could try to use to move laterally. I will tread carefully but can't afford to delay too long. If our customer service guy gives up and leaves, then the **** is probably going to be dumped back on me again

Kensington

Leave. As difficult as it may seem. It's not worth the anguish or worry. Clearly it's still weighing on your mind.

This job won't stay with you for the rest of your life but your health and wellbeing will.

gugleguy

gabria wrote: »

there are so many interesting challenges for this company, a fledgeling operation in pharma

YOU are not seen as vital component HERE. Fledgling operation or not, your own hard graft is being IGNORED.

the_syco

Maybe have the "kind-hearted HR" and "finance co-ordinator" talk to the bosses boss on a replacement boss? If they can't get a new boss, just leave; otherwise you run the risk of burning out.

gabria

the_syco wrote: »

Maybe have the "kind-hearted HR" and "finance co-ordinator" talk to the bosses boss on a replacement boss? If they can't get a new boss, just leave; otherwise you run the risk of burning out.

Certainly the HR has tried this. But shes on sick leave at the moment while the bosses boss will be here again this week. If I only had a few minutes alone with him, I would try myself.
But, scratch that, bar a miracle, he's staying. So career suicide or not, I'm going

gabria

Well it looks like the boss could soon start to see things fall apart for him.

Our put-upon logistics officer has made no secret of the fact that he wants to go. He has done some interviews and came very close to getting one. If he wasn't so rooted down with a family that he could afford not to be choosy about his new job location, he would be gone already Im sure

Effectively I decided at around the same time to go but Ive kept my jobsearch a lot more on the down low. Its looking good so far, I have good references for my hard work which is the key

The HR administrator has to leave at end of next year for retirement
The finance controller is the most assertive of us, he will leave if and when he wishes and won't listen to any nonsense about diminished staff numbers giving him obligation for extra commitment
Our consultants have implied threats to the boss to end their contracts if he does not progress with recruiting a new key full-time position (which addresses properly roles that myself and the consultants have had to carry out in a paper-over-the-cracks manner)

The bosses boss has already left too! So he is now more on his own against us if another acrimony strikes like a dispute over Christmas holidays last year

Won't blow the trumpet yet but should have news on this after Easter