Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

IncognitoMan

david75 wrote: »

There's a thing called collider Jedi council. Three lads sit around talking everything Star Wars. They're doing their review on YouTube later tonight with spoilers. Can't wait. They really know their **** and will probably be able to make pretty accurate guesses on all the questions we have/you will have after seeing it

They are great alright definitely worth checking out. Their movie talk shows in general are very good.

They do another for superhero stuff as well for anyone interested.

py2006

This is actually pretty cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fDlPI1vI2A

OU812

Just out of it & totally underwhelmed. The thing I expected most to happen did, but Kylo shouldn't have been unmasked. He immediately reminded me of Bus driver Otto from the Simpsons. He was a much better character with he mask on.

The islands looked magnificent though.

OU812

OU812 wrote: »

Just out of it & totally underwhelmed. The thing I expected most to happen did, but Kylo shouldn't have been unmasked. He immediately reminded me of Bus driver Otto from the Simpsons. He was a much better character with he mask on.

The islands looked magnificent though.

I think your supposed to be underwhelmed by him. You are supposed to believe he has weakness and that he can change.

david75

Yeah the point is to see him as a total insecure mess. To such a degree it's warping him in his desire for power he probably can't have or ever will

py2006

The opening crawl for anyone who wants to see it again:

https://vid.me/qa3w

Obviously spoilery so avoid if not yet seen.

Kirby

To be honest I think they missed a trick with his reveal.

If we didnt know that Ren was Han's son until Han called out "Ben!" on the bridge, that scene would have been much more powerful.

And I stand by my irritation of how childlike they made him. Understanding it doesnt mean agreeing with it.

orubiru

OU812 wrote: »

Just out of it & totally underwhelmed. The thing I expected most to happen did, but Kylo shouldn't have been unmasked. He immediately reminded me of Bus driver Otto from the Simpsons. He was a much better character with he mask on.

The islands looked magnificent though.

I don't want to be argumentative on the Star Wars thread but

I think a lot of people complaining about Kylo looking less intimidating when unmasked are missing the point of his character.

He's not a Sith yet (confirmed by Snoke the the end). He was also never a Jedi. He's been partially trained by Luke and partially trained by Snoke. He's not supposed to seem like an all powerful badass. He's a confused young man trying to act like he's a mighty Sith Lord. The mask is how he intimidates people while hiding his insecurity

Consider his imperfect ragged lightsaber. Consider how he throws a tantrum when things aren't going his way. Consider how Rey throws him off balance when she accuses that he's afraid he'll never be as powerful as Vader.

All this then plays into the final lightsaber duel where he is all over the place allowing himself to get injured and defeated by two relative amateurs.

The point of removing his helmet is to show you how vulnerable he is. He's supposed to be underwhelming. That's where the conflict and unpredictability of his character is coming from. He's a badass with the helmet on because it allows him to disguise his insecurity. He takes the mask off and he's vulnerable and weak.

Keeping the mask on just takes away the complexity of the character. With the mask he's just another Darth Maul. Looks good but has no substance at all.

robinph

Kirby wrote: »

To be honest I think they missed a trick with his reveal.

If we didnt know that Ren was Han's son until Han called out "Ben!" on the bridge, that scene would have been much more powerful.

And I stand by my irritation of how childlike they made him. Understanding it doesnt mean agreeing with it.

Nah, I'm glad they didn't go for revealing the father/ son thing whilst the pair of them are stood on a precarious platform above an abyss. Whilst the two of them obviously already knew and it would have just been a reveal to us the audience, unlike in Empire where the only person who knew was Darth, it would have felt just too much like they were trying to copy the script from previous films.

JustTheOne

Kirby wrote: »

To be honest I think they missed a trick with his reveal.

If we didnt know that Ren was Han's son until Han called out "Ben!" on the bridge, that scene would have been much more powerful.

And I stand by my irritation of how childlike they made him. Understanding it doesnt mean agreeing with it.

Thanks for using spoiler tags.

Kirby

orubiru wrote: »

I think a lot of people complaining about Kylo looking less intimidating when unmasked are missing the point of his character.

Again, we get it. We understand it. Some of us just dont agree with it.

An all powerful villain is one thing and a weak and vulnerable villain is another. But to show both in the same film just doesnt work in my eyes. We are told tales of how strong and ruthless he is and we are shown him being so in the first half of the film. And then being fairly inept at the end.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Kirby wrote: »

To be honest I think they missed a trick with his reveal.

If we didnt know that Ren was Han's son until Han called out "Ben!" on the bridge, that scene would have been much more powerful.

And I stand by my irritation of how childlike they made him. Understanding it doesnt mean agreeing with it.

Revealing his parentage was handled pretty clunkily in fairness. Snoke could have just said

'Your father' rather than 'Your father, Han Solo'. Like, gee thanks, silly old Kylo might have thought you meant his father, Chewbacca.

There is a scene later where he referes to Vader as his grandfather, but I can't see that keeping a bit of ambiguity over whether he was Leia's or Luke's son would have hurt.

Apart from that though I loved what they did with the character

Kirby

JustTheOne wrote: »

Thanks for using spoiler tags.

If you havent seen the film yet, what are you doing in here?

Like everyone else, up till yesterday I was using spoiler tags but the film is out now and they arent working well on mobile. A mod already said "Reader beware" a couple posts above yours.

Hrududu

robinph wrote: »

She's picked up the tricks of the force way quicker than Luke ever did. It took him until being captured by a Yeti several years after he acquired his first lightsaber, to figure out how to make it fly. And even then it wasn't as if the Yeti was using his force powers to try and stop him. Rey, as someone who knew nothing of the force until a couple of days at most beforehand, has already figured out how to stop an experienced and trained opponent doing the mind meld thing, and can beat him at making things fly and in sword combat.

OK so her opponent was a bit compromised at the time, but still she must be on some kind of super performance enhancing force drugs to allow her to do what she is so quickly.

I'm sure I remembered some sequence in one of the trailers where Leia was speaking in the background saying the line about the force being strong in her family, and my brother has it, my dad had it and you have it kind of thing. Didn't notice that anywhere in the film itself though.

I think the trailer had Luke's voiceover saying that. "My father had it, my sister has it, you have it."

But maybe it's something that either didn't make the cut (as the final scene might have originally included dialog that was cut) or it will be in the next one.

robinph

JustTheOne wrote: »

Thanks for using spoiler tags.

If you are reading in here looking for confirmation that you should go and see the film then the answer is yes.

Otherwise, stop looking in places where your dependant on people using spoiler tags. It gets painful after a while having to highlight every line in the thread, and I'm sure that reading a thread of one block of grey text replying to another block of grey text cant be that much fun.

e_e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPHor1G-uqY

His experience was very much same as mine, before re-watching the original trilogy a few weeks back anyway.

How come Luke never trained Leia at all

Kirby

Maybe he did? Or maybe she didnt want it due to Vader.

Perhaps they considered it but throught the idea of an elderly Carrie Fisher weilding a lightsabre wouldnt work.

FAILSAFE 00

I thought the film was just okay. Same ole, same ole. God can't writers come up with anything unique.

robinph

Hrududu wrote: »

I think the trailer had Luke's voiceover saying that. "My father had it, my sister has it, you have it."

But maybe it's something that either didn't make the cut (as the final scene might have originally included dialog that was cut) or it will be in the next one.

Yep, I just found the trailer I was thinking about and it is Luke.

The odd bit was he talked of father in the present tense though.

Kirby

Was C3PO's

red arm

ever explained anywhere?

orubiru

Kirby wrote: »

Again, we get it. We understand it. Some of us just dont agree with it.

An all powerful villain is one thing and a weak and vulnerable villain is another. But to show both in the same film just doesnt work in my eyes. We are told tales of how strong and ruthless he is and we are shown him being so in the first half of the film. And then being fairly inept at the end.

I would agree with you normally but

in this case we are shown the specific reason why he is both strong and ruthless and also fairly inept. He does not have complete mastery of The Force.

Consider Luke balancing in one had, holding Yoda with one foot and piling up rocks with his mind. Strong. Then he gets distracted and loses is all. Inept.

He's strong and in charge right up until he encounters Rey and then he completely loses his focus and his skill with The Force is also lost with that. One has to be completely focused to use and master The Force. Or completely committed to the Light or Dark side. That's one of the main themes in Star Wars, I would have thought?

Kylo Ren knows how to use the force but he doesn't know how to stay in control. So showing him as both powerful and weak works in the context of what we know about Star Wars?

Holysock

robinph wrote: »

Yep, I just found the trailer I was thinking about and it is Luke.

The odd bit was he talked of father in the present tense though.

That's because it's a qoute from Return of the Jedi

orubiru

robinph wrote: »

Yep, I just found the trailer I was thinking about and it is Luke.

The odd bit was he talked of father in the present tense though.

The dialogue is taken from Return of the Jedi?

When Luke is talking to Leia on Endor just before he goes off to the Death Star to meet Vader?

Sideshow Mark

Everything TPM got wrong this got right. Everything Spectre got wrong, this got right. Everything Star Trek got wrong, this got right. Absolutely delivered a new film that still felt like Star Wars, that stayed true to the Original Films, and breathed new life into the franchise. Indeed a new hope.

jones

Princess Leia needs to lay of the cigs...voice like a heavy smoking docker :-)

david75

robinph wrote: »

Yep, I just found the trailer I was thinking about and it is Luke.

The odd bit was he talked of father in the present tense though.

On that point on the second viewing I noticed

when Kylo is talking to Vaders helmet he TWICE says to it , show me again the power of the dark side' or words to that effect, so you're left wondering has he been communicating with Vaders ghost? And is Vader actually in the dark side still?

We're DEFINITELY getting force ghost of either Vader or yoda next film

robinph

orubiru wrote: »

The dialogue is taken from Return of the Jedi?

When Luke is talking to Leia on Endor just before he goes off to the Death Star to meet Vader?

Doh.

I was getting thrown off by him seeming to be talking about 3 people, father, sister and the person he is talking to. But he's only talking about 2 people really.

They are playing tricks on our memories and throwing it off by putting 30 year old dialogue in the middle of a trailer for a new movie about the next generation.

david75

david75 wrote: »

On that point on the second viewing I noticed

when Kylo is talking to Vaders helmet he TWICE says to it , show me again the power of the dark side' or words to that effect, so you're left wondering has he been communicating with Vaders ghost? And is Vader actually in the dark side still?

We're DEFINITELY getting force ghost of either Vader or yoda next film

*this would undo the end of Jedi but Abrams has priors on this, KKKHHHHHANNN!

A_Sober_Paddy

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I thought the film was just okay. Same ole, same ole. God can't writers come up with anything unique.

well they did, in the prequels and they sucked...for me it was an almost perfect star wars movie