Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Sad Professor

Turtyturd wrote: »

Is it just me or would revealing Rey as Luke's daughter have almost zero impact since it's being bandied about so much?

The main issue is that it would serve no meaningful purpose in the story. She has already lost one father figure. Does she need another one? And how does making her Luke’s daughter develop her conflict/connection with Kylo? He’s already killed his father, is he really going to hesitate to kill his cousin? Would she hesitate to kill her cousin or care if there’s good still in him? Have we really gone from Star Wars being about fathers and sons to being a story about… cousins? If that’s where they are headed with this trilogy, I don’t care how much sense it makes — it sucks!

The only family connection that works is if she’s Kylo’s sister. That gives added significance to Han’s death since he really was her father, giving her every reason to to kill Kylo while simultaneously being the only person who might be able to pull him back from the dark side. Plus it would open the possibility that it was Kylo who abandoned her on Jakku, hoping she would die without him having to do it, adding further complexity to his character. Unfortunately after TFA this would require a lot of explanation to work.

Mike Litoris

Just back from it. Man, I wanted to like it more but I'm somewhere between 7 and 8 out of ten. I think I need to watch it again in 2d in a not so busy screening. Lots of small things annoyed me, most have been covered here so I ain't going back over them but the biggest for me was some of the CGI was just plain bad.


With that said it was epic, edge of the seat stuff. Some great humour which didn't come across as cheesy at all. Loved the new characters especially Finn. I even liked BB8. Gutted

Han is gone

.

Nerdlingr

Think one of the saddest things is how

Leia and han fall apart. Last time we saw them they loved each other and were together. Now they're afraid to face each other after losing ben.[/spolier] Sad-face.

.ak

I'm surprised how many people didn't like Kylo Ren. I thought he was fantastic. Yes, when he first took off his mask it irked me because he all of a sudden lost his powerful aura... But that's the point! In the end he's just a vulnerable, dangerously unstable kid. I think he portrays the journey to the darkside better than anyone else on the screen so far. His transition is 100 times better than anakin's in the prequels. His struggle is 100% believable and the scene with Han was genuinely moving which is a rare thing in Star Wars. His rage, emotion and desperation is all perfectly portrayed IMO.

Mr_Muffin

How many Storm Troopers are there in the Star Wars universe? Would there be hundreds of thousands? Millions even?

Turtyturd

Sad Professor wrote: »

The main issue is that it would serve no meaningful purpose in the story. She has already lost one father figure. Does she need another one? And how does making her Luke’s daughter develop her conflict/connection with Kylo? He’s already killed his father, is he really going to hesitate to kill his cousin? Would she hesitate to kill her cousin or care if there’s good still in him? Have we really gone from Star Wars being about fathers and sons to being a story about… cousins? If that’s where they are headed with this trilogy, I don’t care how much sense it makes — it sucks!

The only family connection that works is if she’s Kylo’s sister. That gives added significance to Han’s death since he really was her father, giving her every reason to to kill Kylo while simultaneously being the only person who might be able to pull him back from the dark side. Plus it would open the possibility that it was Kylo who abandoned her on Jakku, hoping she would die without him having to do it, adding further complexity to his character. Unfortunately after TFA this would require a lot of explanation to work.

I wouldn't even be too bothered by them being cousins. Just having her as Luke's daughter seems so underwhelming. Although if they coupled it with a double face/heel turn between her and Kylo Ren it might add something to it.

Radiosonde

Turtyturd wrote: »

I wouldn't even be too bothered by them being cousins. Just having her as Luke's daughter seems so underwhelming. Although if they coupled it with a double face/heel turn
between her and Kylo Ren it might add something to it.

The significance would have to come from some later plot development, like Ren killing Luke, or perhaps a revelation that Luke chose to abandon her on Jakku, disillusioned from Ren's turn to the dark side and fearing her potential power, which would complicate her feelings about the Jedi.

I think they will reveal some family connection, as either Luke's daughter or Kylo's sister. I prefer the idea she is totally unrelated, but these familial revelations have become a hallmark of the franchise, and I'm assuming they will want to tie her in somehow.

Wedwood

faceman wrote: »

I read this review tonight and the penny dropped with me. Fair points all the same.

http://www.themoviewaffler.com/2015/12/new-release-review-star-wars-force.html?m=1

Nah, don't agree, these 'reviewers' are merely glorified trolls who try to take the good out of everything.

In my view, this is the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.

Return of the Jedi is good, but let's face it, the Jabba and Ewok scenes sag the movie a bit. Force Awakens has a good pace throughout, similar to the first two movies.

TFA also feels like it's from the same universe as the originals, unlike the Prequels, whose rapidly ageing CGI landscapes are making these movies look more like cut scenes from a video game.

The movie also got the right balance of setting up the new characters, while giving decent supporting roles for the original stars.

RDM_83 again

Thargor wrote: »

It was completely average with some good bits, the whole plot was stupid though, the Death Star was a terror weapon because it could turn up anywhere, what the fcuk was Starkiller Base doing? Shooting at other planets in the same system? So just avoid that system then? What? What was Lukes plan? Leave a physical map for the Imperials to follow? The whole film was based on that and it made no sense whatsoever...

Resistance Vs First Order also stupid, so the New Republic doesn't care about this group of planetkilling fascists as long as they're not the Empire? Where was the fleet from Retun of the Jedi? The assault on the base was a bit lame with only a dozen X-Wings, where was the big fleet battle? Resistance Vs First Order sounded like fan fiction bullsh1t.

Various other stupid sh1t, CGI a bit ropy at times especially the resistance base.

Loved Rey/Finn/BB8, good humour compared to the utter cringe in the prequels, BB8 making up its mind and giving the thumbs up had the whole screen laughing, couple of other scenes like that. It was entertaining but definitely not deserving of all the 10/10s its getting, think thats just relief it wasnt as bad as the prequels.

Oh yeah, Lord Snoke, utterly generic bad man character made from 10 year old CGI, he was probably the worst part of the film, all the interesting ideas for Sith or whatever he was in the Extended Universe they could have used and they chose him. It would have better if they'd made him a giant instead of just a hologram like he first appeared actually, so warped by the Dark Side it gave him gigantism.

Not too bad a film, way better than the prequels but still not great. Wasn't really anticipating much I'm aware enough that apart from Empire Strikes Back the early films aren't that amazing plot or acting wise (they did bring a hell of a lot for special effects and sheer wow factor which we are now used to though).

I agree with the post above, I'm not expecting deep politics or complex plot I'm expecting for the film to make some sort of sense though.
Like I watched it and was wondering has Corescant been blown up, is the New Republic just one system actually what/where is the New Republic shouldn't it be the same size as the Old Republic, are the Resistance in a where the New Empire territories have expanded
I don't expect Marvel Films levels of exposition but just a little bit (herself who doesn't really remember plot of old films just thought stuff happens)
JJ Abrahams bring back one of the thing that really annoyed me about Star Trek, no sense of where stuff is happening

Liken the Fin character but thought it would have been way better if he hadn't been a storm trooper, I mean apart from being a bit confused he's not exactly like you'd expect someone that has been raised and mentally conditioned without an identity to react.

AMKC

SouthTippBass wrote: »

We don't know that yet though. We don't know her full history, she might have been one of the jedi Luke trained before Ben went rouge. The next movie should revel more of her backstory.

I don,t think she was one of the Jedi that Luke trained before Ben went rouge.
She did not even know that she possessed the power of the force. She was only learning how to use the force. She was a scavenger on Jakku and probably had never been of that Planet before. Hopefully we will learn more about her in th next Film.

faceman

Wedwood wrote: »

Nah, don't agree, these 'reviewers' are merely glorified trolls who try to take the good out of everything.

In my view, this is the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.

Return of the Jedi is good, but let's face it, the Jabba and Ewok scenes sag the movie a bit. Force Awakens has a good pace throughout, similar to the first two movies.

TFA also feels like it's from the same universe as the originals, unlike the Prequels, whose rapidly ageing CGI landscapes are making these movies look more like cut scenes from a video game.

The movie also got the right balance of setting up the new characters, while giving decent supporting roles for the original stars.

The reason why this feels like it's in the same universe is that the same actors are in it. I guess time will tell.

TFA does drag a bit in the 2nd act though.

Can never understand the hate ROTJ gets.

Frank Bullitt

Just in from it now.

I thought it started really well, and I was getting excited. And then it felt like it fell off from there, and was a bit of "i've been here before" syndrome.

Ray taking off his mask ruined it for me, I know its been pointed out that its to make him less impactful because he wasn't fully a sith lord etc, but it just ruined his powerful aura really, and just made him a moody kid who threw his sweets out of the pram.

7/10 at best, had some nostalgia thrown in and some parts were good, but its by no means a great film at all.

McLoughlin

faceman wrote: »

Can never understand the hate ROTJ gets.

Ewoks, Little teddies taken down the Empire is the big reason.

AMKC

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Not too bad a film, way better than the prequels but still not great. Wasn't really anticipating much I'm aware enough that apart from Empire Strikes Back the early films aren't that amazing plot or acting wise (they did bring a hell of a lot for special effects and sheer wow factor which we are now used to though).

I agree with the post above, I'm not expecting deep politics or complex plot I'm expecting for the film to make some sort of sense though.
Like I watched it and was wondering has Corescant been blown up, is the New Republic just one system actually what/where is the New Republic shouldn't it be the same size as the Old Republic, are the Resistance in a where the New Empire territories have expanded
I don't expect Marvel Films levels of exposition but just a little bit (herself who doesn't really remember plot of old films just thought stuff happens)
JJ Abrahams bring back one of the thing that really annoyed me about Star Trek, no sense of where stuff is happening

Liken the Fin character but thought it would have been way better if he hadn't been a storm trooper, I mean apart from being a bit confused he's not exactly like you'd expect someone that has been raised and mentally conditioned without an identity to react.

Thats the whole point. They are brainwashed to believe what they are doing is right and that everyone else is evil and bad. As kylo said them thiefs, murderers and robbers. They are brainwashed to believe all that and that the First Order is right. But when he see,s what they do and how they do it it effects him and he then realizes its wrong.

It can happen it even happened to Hitler. There was one or two that were not brainwashed even do the Nazi regime started brainwashing them at a young age. It just takes a strong mind and being able to think and the ability to know what is right and wrong.

Dricmeister

I thought it was excellent. I just didn't want it to end.

It is a little odd that Finn is able to put up a fight against Kylo Ren. It is also strange that an untrained girl can beat him in a lightsaber dual.

Top class stuff though. I will go and see it again.

eviltimeban

Does anyone else find that having seen TFA, it gives the prequels a bit of context? Even though they are set beforehand, and you could question how nobody 30 years later seems to remember "order 66" and all that?

As the universe expands with the new trilogy (and upcoming spin offs), the prequels seem to have settled into their place. I'll never get over "I wish I could wish my feelings away" and "I don't like sand" (and Hayden C. in general), but I can see myself going back to them more now (until the next "I hate you!" from Anakin).

TPM is looking better with age. Sure, Jar Jar etc etc whatever. Get over it. It's got the pod race, the duel of the fates, Liam Neeson, and some good action to stand up for itself.

J Mysterio

Literally just about to watch The Phantom Menace again. Looking forward to that trade dispute.

Plan to watch 1-6 now before going seeing 7 again with me brother after xmas.

Some weed would be nice.

ancapailldorcha

Just back from the cinema. This instalment adds nothing new whatsoever and just seems like a rehash of episode 4 though inferior.

Osmosis Jones

Dricmeister wrote: »

I thought it was excellent. I just didn't want it to end.

It is a little odd that Finn is able to put up a fight against Kylo Ren. It is also strange that an untrained girl can beat him in a lightsaber dual.

Top class stuff though. I will go and see it again.

Ren doesn't seem too well trained in combat himself, chances are he's never dueled since leaving Luke. He was also badly wounded when fighting Finn and Rey.

That scene with the Stormtrooper fighting Finn when he has the lightsaber is basically just to show they're trained in close combat.

Personally I loved the movie, solid third best in the franchise I'd say. Anyone annoyed by Ren taking off his mask and not being intimidating enough is a bit mad to me, glad he's not just a copy of Vader, no matter how hard he tries.

RDM_83 again

AMKC wrote: »

Thats the whole point. They are brainwashed to believe what they are doing is right and that everyone else is evil and bad. As kylo said them thiefs, murderers and robbers. They are brainwashed to believe all that and that the First Order is right. But when he see,s what they do and how they do it it effects him and he then realizes its wrong.

It can happen it even happened to Hitler. There was one or two that were not brainwashed even do the Nazi regime started brainwashing them at a young age. It just takes a strong mind and being able to think and the ability to know what is right and wrong.

I'd don't have a problem with the brainwashing/conditioning thing its a really common Sci-Fi trope, its that its all so quick, sees his friend shot, he sees villagers killed,he sweats a bit and takes of mask, he is reborn as rather cliche black character on the side of good with some minor confusion.
I like the character and think he is well acted and likable but it just doesn't fit.

Zillah

I enjoyed myself but I had a few problems:

- The setting is not explained very well. Who or what is the Republic and why aren't they opposing the First Order? Why does The Resistance exist? Are these both paramilitary factions operating outside the Republic? It's just a confusing mess.
- How on Earth did something like the First Order have the resources to build the Star Killer when the Deathstars were the crown jewel of the full empire? Also, how the hell did they hide it when both Deathstars had been discovered and had their plans stolen on previous occasions?
- Untrained people having lightsaber fights and doing a damn fine job of it. Sure, you can kill an unarmed person, but you'd should be instantly murdered if you go against someone that has training. They at least covered the fact that Kylo Ren had been injured, but they still looked far too comfortable with lightsabers for people who had literally just picked them up.
- They literally took one minute standing around to make a plan to destroy the Star Killer and went at it. Made the whole thing seem so easy and ridiculous.
- Similarly taking down the shield was ludicrously easy.
- Luke was a disappointingly short cameo.

I'll go to the next one but I don't feel all that excited. It's all a bit too cheap and easy. If they're going to treat everything so frivolously I don't know why I should care.

Penn

Zillah wrote: »

I enjoyed myself but I had a few problems:

- The setting is not explained very well. Who or what is the Republic and why aren't they opposing the First Order? Why does The Resistance exist? Are these both paramilitary factions operating outside the Republic? It's just a confusing mess.

It was explained in the opening scroll. The First Order grew out of the remnants of the Empire, so the Republic (the planetary government formed after the defeat of the Empire) formed the Resistance to fight the First Order.

Basically, the Republic is in charge, the First Order is trying to take control, and the Resistance is the army of the Republic.

J Mysterio

Zillah wrote: »

- They literally took one minute standing around to make a plan to destroy the Star Killer and went at it. Made the whole thing seem so easy and ridiculous.

All valid arguments but absolutely this point. It actually made me laugh in the cinema.

J Mysterio

Penn wrote: »

It was explained in the opening scroll. The First Order grew out of the remnants of the Empire, so the Republic (the planetary government formed after the defeat of the Empire) formed the Resistance to fight the First Order.

Basically, the Republic is in charge, the First Order is trying to take control, and the Resistance is the army of the Republic.

Just to be a bit particular, calling the ruling groups army 'the resistance' is a bit of a mistake (one I can get over, obviously).

eeguy

Penn wrote: »

It was explained in the opening scroll. The First Order grew out of the remnants of the Empire, so the Republic (the planetary government formed after the defeat of the Empire) formed the Resistance to fight the First Order.

Basically, the Republic is in charge, the First Order is trying to take control, and the Resistance is the army of the Republic.

The problem with Star Wars is there's so much backstory in various books and TV series that make it into the movies it's hard to follow.

Also, it was my understanding that the First Order and Republic were in a Cold War like state. The Resistance were like the Afghans fighting the Soviets, but overtly supported by the US.
Then the Soviets nuked the US.

Zillah

Penn wrote: »

Basically, the Republic is in charge, the First Order is trying to take control, and the Resistance is the army of the Republic.

One of the Order dudes talks about how the Republic claims to be neutral but is secretly supporting the Resistance, so that's obviously not the case. Do the First Order control systems? Are they essentially an empire? If they're the modern day empire why aren't they at war with the Republic? I just don't know if this is supposed to be a clash of empires, or terrorist groups, or what. Who is big? Who is small?

I'm not saying the situation makes no sense, but they made very little effort to actually convey what the hell the situation is to us, the audience.

SouthTippBass

AMKC wrote: »

I don,t think she was one of the Jedi that Luke trained before Ben went rouge.
She did not even know that she possessed the power of the force. She was only learning how to use the force. She was a scavenger on Jakku and probably had never been of that Planet before. Hopefully we will learn more about her in th next Film.

Id say she has definitely been off Jakku before. She was dropped there (to hide probably) when she was about 5, she could have been in training until that age. Remember Yoda didn't want Anakin to start training as he was already too old in PM, so they start very young.

Cookie_Monster

Is BB-8 modelled on a penguin at all. His moment has that very funny penguin-esque quality to it a lot of the time through the film.

colossus-x

Dricmeister wrote: »

It is a little odd that Finn is able to put up a fight against Kylo Ren. It is also strange that an untrained girl can beat him in a lightsaber dual.

The Force is awakening in her - before our very eyes.

Turtyturd

Radiosonde wrote: »

The significance would have to come from some later plot development, like Ren killing Luke, or perhaps a revelation that Luke chose to abandon her on Jakku, disillusioned from Ren's turn to the dark side and fearing her potential power, which would complicate her feelings about the Jedi.

I think they will reveal some family connection, as either Luke's daughter or Kylo's sister. I prefer the idea she is totally unrelated, but these familial revelations have become a hallmark of the franchise, and I'm assuming they will want to tie her in somehow.

I think that Luke choosing to leave her on Jakku, maybe at the behest of Obi Wan and Yoda who fear she could be another Anakin would be the way to go. She has resentment over it, usurps Ren but he escapes and repents for what happened becoming the new hero.

Has that something you've seen but different approach that they're going for.