Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Tony EH

And now they're all dead!



Evil hollywood.

Technocentral

Just seen it in Savoy 1, nice 2d projection and quiet crowd, shivers down my spine at first sight of the Falcon on desert planet when its partialy covered up and arrival of x wings on castle planet, some nice model work to balance the CGI, sad when I saw Chewie on his own in cockpit of Falcon at end as its taking of. Daisy Ridley v good and gorgeous, Oscar Isaacs v good to, the rest of the newbies alright nothing special, Gleeson piss poor though. Over all 4/5.

LionelNashe

I think the beginning relied on co-incidence a bit too much. BB8, while carrying the map to Luke's location, crosses paths very quickly with Rey, who could well some connection to Luke. Finn finds them at the first settlement he goes to. Then of the ships available to leave the planet, they end up on the Millennium Falcon. Then Han & Chewie turn up 10 minutes later, because they found the falcon with their scanners (bit convenient). That's 4 unlikely events chained together.

david75

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think the beginning relied on co-incidence a bit too much. BB8, while carrying the map to Luke's location, crosses paths very quickly with Rey, who could well some connection to Luke. Finn finds them at the first settlement he goes to. Then of the ships available to leave the planet, they end up on the Millennium Falcon. Then Han & Chewie turn up 10 minutes later, because they found the falcon with their scanners (bit convenient). That's 4 unlikely events chained together.

Qui gon just happens to find Anakin
Ben just happens to save Luke from the sand people.
Etc

These are movie making devices. Not Star Wars problems.

The force is guiding all these things I reckon.

Technocentral

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think the beginning relied on co-incidence a bit too much. BB8, while carrying the map to Luke's location, crosses paths very quickly with Rey, who could well some connection to Luke. Finn finds them at the first settlement he goes to. Then of the ships available to leave the planet, they end up on the Millennium Falcon. Then Han & Chewie turn up 10 minutes later, because they found the falcon with their scanners (bit convenient). That's 4 unlikely events chained together.

Its the Force innit?

lapua20grain

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think the beginning relied on co-incidence a bit too much. BB8, while carrying the map to Luke's location, crosses paths very quickly with Rey, who could well some connection to Luke. Finn finds them at the first settlement he goes to. Then of the ships available to leave the planet, they end up on the Millennium Falcon. Then Han & Chewie turn up 10 minutes later, because they found the falcon with their scanners (bit convenient). That's 4 unlikely events chained together.

Its a film

khamilto

Disappointing. 6/10 at best.

Incoherent mess, no depth whatsoever.

• What is the Resistance?
• Why and who are they resisting?
• What is the Republic?
• What is the First Order?
• How can there be a resistance and a first order within the Republic?
• How did no-one notice an entire planet with about 1/6th of the landmass excavated and turned into a machine and with tens(hundred? thousands?) of thousands of people living and working on it?
• How does a weapon fire tens of thousands of light years in almost an instant?
• How does the weapons beam appear moving through the sky thousands of light years away?
• Why is the resistance so feared when its entire 'fleet' consists of around 20 x-wing fighters?
• How did Rey learn about engineering and flight when the only ships she has ever come across are destroyed and dead?
• Why does a stormtrooper psychologically conditioned since birth, only face his first battle when he's in his mid 20s? Why does he have a panic attack straight away and how is he so normal and adjusted? Why doesn't he even for an instant show some kind of struggle between what he grew up with and has been conditioned to, and simply killing all his former comrades 'cuz?
  

I could go on and on and ****ing on. The problem is, this isn't nitpicking. It's showing just how incoherent the story is. There is no consistency, no attempt at creating a setting. It is incredibly lazy in every single facet of its creation, relying on the Star Wars name and constant inane action to sustain it.

The worst of it is, it has worked. People seem incapable of detaching Star Wars the nostalgia from Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

The movie never gave itself a chance to a breathe. A chance for suspense to build, for characters to expand beyond 'plucky young girl' 'naive young guy' 'childish son fighting to escape his parents' shadow'.

It has JJA stamped all over it. Sumptious visuals, no imagination, and utterly facile in every aspect.

There wasn't a single poignant or moving scene in the movie, and the death at the end had no impact because it was a) telegraphed so obviously & b) the characters mattered not at all. Not to mention the movie was an almost clone of Star Wars 4+5, recreated and condensed into one movie.

Dempsey

Just 2 points, the Resistance & First Order are not within the Republic.

Finn clearly states he was taken at a young age from his family, not raised as a Stormtrooper from birth.

LionelNashe

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think the beginning relied on co-incidence a bit too much. BB8, while carrying the map to Luke's location, crosses paths very quickly with Rey, who could well some connection to Luke. Finn finds them at the first settlement he goes to. Then of the ships available to leave the planet, they end up on the Millennium Falcon. Then Han & Chewie turn up 10 minutes later, because they found the falcon with their scanners (bit convenient). That's 4 unlikely events chained together.

Technocentral wrote: »

Its the Force innit?

Well, that could be the case, because Rey is a common element in each of those meetings.

py2006

For those complaining about the movie, a lot of questions will be addressed in the sequels. As the writer said, "there is a story to be told".

OU812

Wish the fecking sequel was out in January

Dempsey

py2006 wrote: »

For those complaining about the movie, a lot of questions will be addressed in the sequels. As the writer said, "there is a story to be told".

Sounds like the writers of Lost

py2006

Dempsey wrote: »

Sounds like the writers of Lost

Well, JJ Abrams. So yeah

Wailin

Whoever cast that geezer as the bad guy should be strung up by the balls. Worst 'baddie' in a star wars movie by far, about as menacing as Panti Bliss. 6/10 for me, very disappointing.

Mickeroo

Just in from it, ****ing loved it. Kylo Ren was brilliant and so many moments that gave me shivers. Can't wait to see it again. Probably stands alongside Empire Strikes Back as the best in the series for me with Empire just about edging it. Ending left me wanting more in a big way.

AMKC

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, I can't speak for others, but what I'm saying is that they could have gotten rid of the real birds that were flying around. The actual gannets, etc that called Skellig Michael their home and maybe put in something a bit more exotic.

As it stands, it simply looks like Rey has flown to Kerry.

It's not awful. But to an Irish man, it's like, oh....ummmm....Kerry.

The CGI for the most part was fine, with a few uneasy parts here and there. The physics of the aerial battles felt off sometimes as well and the lack of model work allows the director to do, frankly, stupid things, like bashing the Millennium Falcon off the ground repeatedly and horsing through a forest.

Ain't no craft, real or imaginary, is going to survive that kind of punishment.

I thought about this too but on Jakku its just sand so hardly going to do much damage skimming the sand but on the Star Killer planet I agree that coming straight out of hyperspace and crashing into them trees would have to do some series damage to the ship but maybe its shields were up and maybe they stopped any damage from happening. The same on Jakku.

Dricmeister

To be fair to Kylo Ren, he is shot and wounded by Chewie prior to the lightsaber duals with Finn and Rey.

I reckon Rey was one of Luke's Padawan learners.

Tony EH

AMKC wrote: »

I thought about this too but on Jakku its just sand so hardly going to do much damage skimming the sand but on the Star Killer planet I agree that coming straight out of hyperspace and crashing into them trees would have to do some series damage to the ship but maybe its shields were up and maybe they stopped any damage from happening. The same on Jakku.

It simply wouldn't have got through the trees, shields or no shields. I know it's fantasy and all, but there needs to be proper physical limitations on objects to be convincing.

It's a common problem with CGI though. It allows filmmakers to indulge and often it looks fake, no matter how "good" it looks, because real world limits go out the window in a computer.

It's why good model work can often trump CGI. They simply wouldn't have been able to achieve that silly shot with models and something else would have to be thought of.

By the way, re: sand, thrust your hand into the sand the next time you're at the beach. You'll see you how tough and resistant it can be.

PhiloCypher

khamilto wrote: »

Disappointing. 6/10 at best.

Incoherent mess, no depth whatsoever.

• What is the Resistance?
• Why and who are they resisting?
• What is the Republic?
• What is the First Order?
• How can there be a resistance and a first order within the Republic?
• How did no-one notice an entire planet with about 1/6th of the landmass excavated and turned into a machine and with tens(hundred? thousands?) of thousands of people living and working on it?
• How does a weapon fire tens of thousands of light years in almost an instant?
• How does the weapons beam appear moving through the sky thousands of light years away?
• Why is the resistance so feared when its entire 'fleet' consists of around 20 x-wing fighters?
• How did Rey learn about engineering and flight when the only ships she has ever come across are destroyed and dead?
• Why does a stormtrooper psychologically conditioned since birth, only face his first battle when he's in his mid 20s? Why does he have a panic attack straight away and how is he so normal and adjusted? Why doesn't he even for an instant show some kind of struggle between what he grew up with and has been conditioned to, and simply killing all his former comrades 'cuz?
  

I could go on and on and ****ing on. The problem is, this isn't nitpicking. It's showing just how incoherent the story is. There is no consistency, no attempt at creating a setting. It is incredibly lazy in every single facet of its creation, relying on the Star Wars name and constant inane action to sustain it.

The worst of it is, it has worked. People seem incapable of detaching Star Wars the nostalgia from Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

The movie never gave itself a chance to a breathe. A chance for suspense to build, for characters to expand beyond 'plucky young girl' 'naive young guy' 'childish son fighting to escape his parents' shadow'.

It has JJA stamped all over it. Sumptious visuals, no imagination, and utterly facile in every aspect.

There wasn't a single poignant or moving scene in the movie, and the death at the end had no impact because it was a) telegraphed so obviously & b) the characters mattered not at all. Not to mention the movie was an almost clone of Star Wars 4+5, recreated and condensed into one movie.

With regard to your first six bullet points I think they have foolishly left the tie in novels to provide the context for the galactic status quo.

I'm absolutely with you on the the ridiculously vague workings of Starkiller base.

As for Rey I have no problem with her knowing how to fly/fix a ship or wield a lightsaber we know absolutely nothing of her life between her being left on Jakku and the start of FA, even if she isn't a skywalker with a natural aptitude there's plenty of time for her to have learned a trade. If the theories about her been trained by luke as a youngling are correct, and the flashback certainly hints at that, then that explains her competency with a lightsaber.

Finn by all accounts cleaned the imperial toilets before he was promoted to stormtrooper, so it's not actually that surprising he didn't see action till FA, it would also explain why he has an actual personality. I doubt the Janitorial staff are as uptight as your rank and file stormtrooper.

All that being said while I disagree with some of your issues with the characters I do agree that there is a lot they could have done better. Hopefully Riann Johnson can pull the disparate threads JJ has left together into something compelling in episode 8.

Baggy Trousers

I have to say I loved the movie but for the hunk-of-junk that is the Falcon, it took an awful lot of abuse and somehow kept flying. I always felt from previous movies that it was just about hanging together and yet they proceeded to hammer it off everything and anything.

errlloyd

I want Rey to be a nobody. Complete random, not everyone has to be family in this universe. But sadly on the second watching today I saw something I hadn't previously realised.

When Rey steps off the falcon after Han died. She is the one who steps forward and hugs leia, for an unreasonably long time. They'd never met previously in the film. It certainly felt familial.

Osmosis Jones

Ren isn't meant to be menacing, he's not Vader!

Just back from seeing it for a second time, bit of a panto crowd in the cinema. When Rey opened the chest I heard at least four people whisper "lightsaber."

Thelomen Toblackai

errlloyd wrote: »

I want Rey to be a nobody. Complete random, not everyone has to be family in this universe. But sadly on the second watching today I saw something I hadn't previously realised.

When Rey steps off the falcon after Han died. She is the one who steps forward and hugs leia, for an unreasonably long time. They'd never met previously in the film. It certainly felt familial.

I noticed that at the time too. I initially thought it was a familiarity but then I moved more towards the view that they set out to rescue her as part of the mission and she was a part of the inside job of blowing up the death star.

Lei would have also been told about the lightsabre, Han knew before leaving for the mission. Finn had the sabre with him. There's no way they'd not have talked about the fact she was a Jedi or the they had Luke's old lightsabre.

I think it just ties in with the end, Leia knew the girl was something special, they sent her to bring Luke back. And whether she ends up being Lukes daughter, padawan or what I don't think Leia and Rey actually knew each other.

Technocentral

Tony EH wrote: »

It simply wouldn't have got through the trees, shields or no shields.

But its the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs?

Baggy Trousers

Technocentral wrote: »

But its the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs?

Does the Kessel Run involve forests?

Technocentral

Mickeroo wrote: »

Just in from it, ****ing loved it. Kylo Ren was brilliant and so many moments that gave me shivers. Can't wait to see it again. Probably stands alongside Empire Strikes Back as the best in the series for me with Empire just about edging it. Ending left me wanting more in a big way.

I'd rank them thusly:

1. Empire
2. New Hope
3. ROTJ
4. Force Awakens

The other 3 belong in the pit of Sarlacc being digested for a billion years.

Dricmeister

1. Empire
2. Star Wars (i.e. A New Hope)
3. The Force Awakens
4. Revenge of the Sith
4. Return of the Jedi
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith is underrated.

errlloyd

Dricmeister wrote: »

1. Empire
2. Star Wars (i.e. A New Hope)
3. The Force Awakens
4. Revenge of the Sith
4. Return of the Jedi
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith is underrated.

Highly underrated. Fantastic film with a genuinely emotional climax. Simply ranking them doesn't put into perspective how much better 3 was than 1 and 2.

Dricmeister

errlloyd wrote: »

Highly underrated. Fantastic film with a genuinely emotional climax. Simply ranking them doesn't put into perspective how much better 3 was than 1 and 2.

Revenge of the Sith has some great moments...Palpatine's reveal, Dooku vs Anakin, Mace Windu vs Palpatine, the birth of Darth Vader, the opera scene, Obi Wan vs Darth Vader, Yoda vs Palpatine, the Jedi assasinations. It's a more than worthy addition to the series. That opera scene with Palpatine and Anakin is superb ("did you ever hear the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise?")

Episodes 1 & 2 are average at best though.

tommyboy2222

errlloyd wrote: »

Highly underrated. Fantastic film with a genuinely emotional climax. Simply ranking them doesn't put into perspective how much better 3 was than 1 and 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIslHNMf3g8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABcXyZn9xjg