Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

PhiloCypher

Looking at the rankings over the last few pages I'm surprised how many people have this film in their top 3. Without a doubt its leagues better then the prequels, the character pop off the screen and it has a sense of humour and fun that was entirely lacking in the prequels , but top 3 ? No way, not for my money. The lightsaber fight aside there wasn't really any original memorable set pieces to stand up against anything in the original films. Its just a remix of elements of all 3 OT films. The next film really is going to have its work cut out providing the political context (sorely lacking in this film albeit prob provided by tie in novels) and the back story of Ren and Rey, without the opening crawl being 20 paragraphs long or the film being mostly flashbacks.

Sidenote: to those still upset over Ren getting pawned by Rey, to my mind based on how he struggled to pull the lightsaber out of the snow, Ren is only at the level Luke was in ESB when he had similar issue in the wampa cave, he is not a Sith lord.That being said if he was in the whole of his health he probably should still be beating Rey, but he's not, he gets shot by one of Chewie/Finn or Rey on that bridge, so he is injured and bleeding right from the off. His fight with Rey was in many ways a mirror of Luke and Vader in ESB except it is the Sith that has the chastening experience.

Tony EH

Nerdlingr wrote: »

So.... Seven movies in...Is there anyone going to bring 'balance to the force'? (as foreseen in the prophecy)

That "balance to the force" bollocks only exists in the prequels. It has nothing to do with the real Star Wars universe.

I can see as Disney "progresses" their series that those atrocities will have less and less to do with anything at all.

And good job too.

Optimus Prime

Mickeroo wrote: »

I thought that bit was Ren killing off the rest of Luke's trainees.

Initially i thought that too, but looking at that again, the guy is lashing out at Rey on the ground and is stabbed through the back by Kylo. its all just specualtion of course but thats my take on it.

Also, luke is clearly burning the bodies of the dead jedi when he puts his hand on R2.

I think all that scene is flashbacks, nothing in the future. which is why Yoda saying the future is clouded etc doesnt really apply here. for me anyways.

Also i noticed what looks like a gravestone luke is staring at on the island at the end. its in mulitple shots and really looks like one.

Note: could also just be a rock haha..

Radiosonde

Tony EH wrote: »

That "balance to the force" bollocks only exists in the prequels. It has nothing to do with the real Star Wars universe.

I can see as Disney "progresses" their series that those atrocities will have less and less to do with anything at all.

And good job too.

They did reference it in the new movie. And Abrams is said to hate the prequels, so Disney insisted I guess. They were probably just throwing a bone to prequel fans but I don't think we can rule out some future Star Wars movie leaning more heavily on prequel settings and concepts.

Tony EH

I didn't hear any reference to "balancing" the Force.

Thargor

No sign of any midichlorian scanners being used either.

Sad Professor

Tony EH wrote: »

I didn't hear any reference to "balancing" the Force.

Sydow's character said something about there being no balance without the Jedi.

JustShon

Thargor wrote: »

No sign of any midichlorian scanners being used either.

Confirmed Jar Jar will show up in Episode VIII to scan Rey's midichlorian levels. She will then have a long battle against a droid army with no personality whatsoever.

Foxtrol

Zillah wrote: »

The entire concept of "balancing the force" was absurd. What the hell did Obi Wan think he meant when he said that? "Balance" sounds like a nice word until you realise they are talking about balance between good and evil. Who the fuck wants equal measures of good and evil in the world?

He says in the final fight scene in ROTS that it means that Anakin would destroy the Sith.

Being balanced doesn't necessarily mean equal good and bad, just that it's functioning correctly. For example, if you tell someone you're living a balanced life it doesn't mean you do equal good things and ****ty things.

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

Sydow's character said something about there being no balance without the Jedi.

But that's kind of different to the Space Jesus nonsense about "prophecy" and "The one who will bring balance to the force" that they on about in the prequels.

Foxtrol

Thargor wrote: »

No sign of any midichlorian scanners being used either.

Why would there be? Unless Obi-Wan or Yoda spoke to Luke again from beyond the grave and told him how to build them, that knowledge is lost.

py2006

Just saw it again in the Savoy. Only half full and a more subdued crowd. Some of the jokes fell flat.

The sound again was amazing, totally adds to the experience.

One thing I noticed was part of Lukes theme was played on three separate occasions for Rey.

Also for those giving out that Rey could fly a ship, she did say she has done before just not into space.

silverharp

Anyone think the hype spoiled it for them?

Foxtrol

SouthTippBass wrote: »

That doesn't wash, those books aren't canon. Han telling Chewie to look after Leia is just that, no life debts involved.

On this the second new book, that's tracking the time between ROTJ and TFA, is called "Life Debt" and shows the Millennium Falcon on the cover.

Definite signs pointing to them bringing the Life Debt concept into the new canon, as they were in the old EU canon.

david75

Just watching it again.

Man the first chase with the falcon and two tie fighters is so brilliant.
Does as much to make it feel like real Star Wars as the old character reveals.
It's so well edited. Pure excitement.

RoadhouseBlues

david75 wrote: »

Just watching it again.

Man the first chase with the falcon and two tie fighters is so brilliant.
Does as much to make it feel like real Star Wars as the old character reveals.
It's so well edited. Pure excitement.

:D:D:D:D
How many times have you seen it so far. I'm hoping to see it again next week for the second time:D:D:D:D

bilston

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Looking at the rankings over the last few pages I'm surprised how many people have this film in their top 3. Without a doubt its leagues better then the prequels, the character pop off the screen and it has a sense of humour and fun that was entirely lacking in the prequels , but top 3 ? No way, not for my money. The lightsaber fight aside there wasn't really any original memorable set pieces to stand up against anything in the original films. Its just a remix of elements of all 3 OT films. The next film really is going to have its work cut out providing the political context (sorely lacking in this film albeit prob provided by tie in novels) and the back story of Ren and Rey, without the opening crawl being 20 paragraphs long or the film being mostly flashbacks.

Sidenote: to those still upset over Ren getting pawned by Rey, to my mind based on how he struggled to pull the lightsaber out of the snow, Ren is only at the level Luke was in ESB when he had similar issue in the wampa cave, he is not a Sith lord.That being said if he was in the whole of his health he probably should still be beating Rey, but he's not, he gets shot by one of Chewie/Finn or Rey on that bridge, so he is injured and bleeding right from the off. His fight with Rey was in many ways a mirror of Luke and Vader in ESB except it is the Sith that has the chastening experience.

TFA is better than ROTJ IMO. Return of the Jedi starts great on Tatooine and ends great with the Luke/Vader showdown but Endoor and the Ewoks bring it down. Yes George of course the Care Bears were able to defeat the Empire with weapons that can destroy planets...FFS...that's when it all started to go wrong for him.

py2006

Love this guys reviews. He makes some good points in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaneqBQE_6k

Dricmeister

Nerdlingr wrote: »

So.... Seven movies in...Is there anyone going to bring 'balance to the force'? (as foreseen in the prophecy)

Anakin did just that when he killed the Emperor and destroyed the Sith at the end of Jedi...

PhiloCypher

david75 wrote: »

Just watching it again.

Man the first chase with the falcon and two tie fighters is so brilliant.
Does as much to make it feel like real Star Wars as the old character reveals.
It's so well edited. Pure excitement.

Yeh it was excellent , it's a shame the X-Wing battles don't live up to it. The fight over Maz'z cantina being a stand out in that regard, with Poe's X-Wing displaying all the weight of a mayfly as it near single handedly takes out an entire squadron of Tie's in one fluid movement.

david75

Strange continuity screw up.

Hans hair is short when he and Chewie appear on the falcon. Then it's kinda long by the time we get to the battle at Maz's place. A lot longer. Odd that.

david75

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Yeh it was excellent , it's a shame the X-Wing battles don't live up to it. The fight over Maz'z cantina being a stand out in that regard, with Poe's X-Wing displaying all the weight of a mayfly as it near single handedly takes out an entire squadron of Tie's in one fluid movement.

I thought all the X wing shots were great!! Especially when they're bombing the oscillator

Tony EH

bilston wrote: »

TFA is better than ROTJ IMO. Return of the Jedi starts great on Tatooine and ends great with the Luke/Vader showdown but Endoor and the Ewoks bring it down. Yes George of course the Care Bears were able to defeat the Empire with weapons that can destroy planets...FFS...that's when it all started to go wrong for him.

The point of the victory over Endor was that it was a local victory against all odds, by a foe the Empire troops guarding the shield generator completely ignored. The major victory took place in space. The Ewoks simply distracted the Empire troops, while Solo's commandos took out the generator.

But yeh, teddys battling Stormtroopers is fucking stupid and we can only imagine how better it would have been if the original idea of having wookies instead was implemented.

But either way, the Battle of Endor was a significant victory, but the war was certainly not over by a long shot and that's how it felt at the end of 'Return of the Jedi' in its original form and it was great. It's just a pity it too 30+ years to get to the next real chapter.

The not so "special" editions, though, make it look like the Empire, which has run for 20+ years and controls entire systems, suddenly just give up because first and second on command are dead?

Which is simply dumb.

But it was Lucas' way of saying that he was done with Star Wars. For him it was the end and the special editions was his stamp on it. He famously said that their will be no Episode VII. So he "destroys" the Empire and all is dandy with the universe in a spectacularly insipid effort at closure.

But watching 'Return of the Jedi' in its original form, even with all its flaws is still enjoyable and it includes some of the finest model work I've ever seen in a film. The battle at the end with all those ships is utterly fantastic and I've yet to see any CGI effort better it, TBH, and that includes 'The Force Awakens' stupid goings on with its CGI spaceships.

Shakey_jake

david75 wrote: »

I thought all the X wing shots were great!! Especially when they're bombing the oscillator

The xwing pilots came across like a damp squid in this one unfortunately, seriously Greg Grunberg ughhh :mad:

PhiloCypher

david75 wrote: »

I thought all the X wing shots were great!! Especially when they're bombing the oscillator

You mean that scene thats a shameless mashup of the first deathstar trench run and the second death stars Reactor scene ? Sorry but Millenium falcon scene aside the combat in this was every bit as generic as the prequels imo . As I've said before where this film succeeds is in its casting , the chemistry between its leads and its sense of fun/humour, its most certainly not its story or its aerial combat scenes.

Foxtrol

Tony EH wrote: »

The point of the victory over Endor was that it was a local victory against all odds, by a foe the Empire troops guarding the shield generator completely ignored. The major victory took place in space. The Ewoks simply distracted the Empire troops, while Solo's commandos took out the generator.

But yeh, teddys battling Stormtroopers is fucking stupid and we can only imagine how better it would have been if the original idea of having wookies instead was implemented.

But either way, the Battle of Endor was a significant victory, but the war was certainly not over by a long shot and that's how it felt at the end of 'Return of the Jedi' in its original form and it was great. It's just a pity it too 30+ years to get to the next real chapter.

The not so "special" editions, though, make it look like the Empire, which has run for 20+ years and controls entire systems, suddenly just give up because first and second on command are dead?

Which is simply dumb.

But it was Lucas' way of saying that he was done with Star Wars. For him it was the end and the special editions was his stamp on it. He famously said that their will be no Episode VII. So he "destroys" the Empire and all is dandy with the universe in a spectacularly insipid effort at closure.

But watching 'Return of the Jedi' in its original form, even with all its flaws is still enjoyable and it includes some of the finest model work I've ever seen in a film. The battle at the end with all those ships is utterly fantastic and I've yet to see any CGI effort better it, TBH, and that includes 'The Force Awakens' stupid goings on with its CGI spaceships.

What we see in the special editions are systems we know who wouldnt naturally be friendly to the Empire celebrating, it doesnt show that it is completely destroyed.

Old canon books and I expect new canon books show that the Empire didnt just close up shop.

No problem in making assumptions from 30 seconds you see in a remastered movie but what they've put out since goes against your issue.

david75

Lads this link has loads of really cool answers information and theories. Well worth reading.
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-questions/

py2006

david75 wrote: »

Strange continuity screw up.

Hans hair is short when he and Chewie appear on the falcon. Then it's kinda long by the time we get to the battle at Maz's place. A lot longer. Odd that.

I noticed that too when he handed Rey the gun saying "you'll need this"

Thargor

Foxtrol wrote: »

Why would there be? Unless Obi-Wan or Yoda spoke to Luke again from beyond the grave and told him how to build them, that knowledge is lost.

It was a joke based on the other user posting things that were in the prequels but not in this film.

I didnt realise it was canon that only Obi-wan and Yoda could build the midochlorian scanners though, or that they only kept that information in their heads, they must have been running a monopoly together...

thegreengoblin

Wailin wrote: »

Dear Lord.........no, he didn't, he was awful. Even Christensen was far better displaying his emotions tearing him apart. As for the other 2 baddies, well, best left alone I think.

I just don't see how anyone can think that at all. Saw it for the second time today and Driver's performance was so far ahead of Christensen that it's not even a contest. Driver is basically saying 'this is how you do conflict'. It was a stunning performance, especially with it being in the context of a Star Wars movie.

I enjoyed it much more second time around. First time I was quite tense because I just wanted it to be a competent film. Now that I know it's a very good film I was able to relax and just take it all in.

When it came to Han's death scene my little heart began thumping. Seeing my favourite film character of all time murdered in that way was genuinely gutwrenching.

Having said all that, I do have a problem with the story being a cut and paste job from ANH. It just makes the film look like a reboot albeit a very good one. There's also the issue of lifting a major plotline from the Expanded Universe i.e. Solo kid turns to the dark side and becomes an absolute monster. I think it's a great plotline but I just hope people give the EU writers some credit because they got an awful lot of stick down through the years.

Anyway, these quibbles aside I can't wait to see TFA again. Star Wars is truly back and it feels great to say it.