Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

cowboyBuilder

Tigger wrote: »

The corridor in Reys flashback is the one Vader chases Luke down on cloud city just before the reveal

It looks like it, but could be a coincidence ..

Mickeroo

Yup,, I'd have to agree to an extent Johnny, there's a huge gulf between Empire Strikes Back and the other two films.

shamrock55

Just seen this last night and even though it was great seeing all the original characters back it was very very ordinary,a carbon copy of a new hope, very lazy writing, i laughed at reys use of the force,she picked it up very quick didnt she:D, and of course of the thousands of storm troopers it had to be the one lad who wanted out who got to look after the prisoner(pilot) at the start,very ordinary film that being honest gave nothing new and didnt entertain me once throughout 6/10

Nerdlingr

SteM wrote: »

Just saw it again this morning and he definitely didn't say last of the Knights of Ren.

He's says 'leader' doesn't he?

SteM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

He's says 'leader' doesn't he?

Yup, leader.

Have to admit I enjoyed it more the second time but I have a big issue with the map idea. If someone wants to tell you their location then all they need to do is provide coordinates. They don't need to leave you a giant star chart in 2 pieces that has a red line going from one point to another with stopping points along the way. It's an over-thought mcgubbins imo. Maybe I'm missing something through.

py2006

I noticed Harrison is listed as one of the cast on IMDB for the next one. I am fairly certain I checked this a few weeks ago and his name wasn't there.

Could it be?

Sad Professor

py2006 wrote: »

I noticed Harrison is listed as one of the cast on IMDB for the next one. I am fairly certain I checked this a few weeks ago and his name wasn't there.

Could it be?

IMDb is user-edited.

thegreengoblin

Tony EH wrote: »

We really have to stop looking at the prequels as creatures of the same flock as the original trilogy. They're not. They're poor made, poorly acted and all round poor products. They don't deserve to be even mentioned in the same sentence as the original films.

As far as acting is concerned, the acting in the original trilogy was perfectly fine, with a dip in form in 'Return of the Jedi', especially from Ford who basically phoned it in as he had had enough of Han Solo and Star Wars in general.

But, in Star Wars, they were all decent enough, with what they had to work with. Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing are great and completely convincing in their roles as are the British non stars who populate the Death Star. Hamil is perfectly fine as Luke, Fisher is ok and Ford is perfect as Han Solo. They up their game in 'The Empire Strikes Back'.

The acting in the original trilogy is absolutely fine, whereas the acting in the prequels is absolute mush from nearly everyone concerned, bar Liam Neeson, who plays Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid. Also, he loses the plot in 'Revenge of the Sith'. Also, after the drubbing that 'The Phantom Menace' got, I think a lot of them just gave up and thought about the pay check. Nobody seemed to give a shit in 'Attack of the Clones', McGregor especially and he's been quite vocal about his frustration during filming. As for Samuel L Jackson, I've never rated him as an actor anyway. He has pretty much the same schtick with everything he's in. The fact that he's so subdued was the outstanding part of his performance in the prequels.

The thing I despise about those fucking prequels most, above everything else, is that they have tarnished people's memories of Star Wars in every way. They're an absolute abomination.

I'm not sure why you had to tell me all of that! I just made an off the cuff remark how about the acting in Star Wars is rarely noteworthy. Driver just brings it up a few notches in this.

I'm well aware how bad the prequels were especially as we've had countless posts about them in this very thread over the last couple of years....but there's no point pretending they don't exist. The fact remains that they are an intrinsic part of the overall Star Wars story.

Balmed Out

Just saw it last night. Most of the action scenes and the odd moment of comedy were good. I liked the two new central charachters though Darth vaders successor is underwhelming. The plot, what can you say. They jumped so many sharks and just rehashed old plots it was brutal.

david75

Production notes to the skelig shoot says Luke is guarding a sith tomb.

quarryman

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Amazing.

Just Amazing.

The best Star Wars movie - easily.

Just back from it, and still processing it.

Thank you JJ ... this was Star Wars again !!!

Are you smoking crack? Seriously. You can't genuinely believe this.



Saw the movie last night and despite hoping Abrams would make a solid addition to the franchise... it was largely a disappointment.

My criticisms in no particular order:

Was the plot just lifted from the previous movies and remade?

Terrible acting by the actors playing Rey and Finn. Cringey at times. They're trying too hard in every scene, though it improves slightly towards the end.

The scenes when each of the actors from the original appear was an opportunity missed in all cases. With the exception of the one at the end.

Good guys that I don't like enough to care about. Bad guys I don't hate enough to hope they get killed. Which is completely the opposite to the films 4,5 an 6 where you really despised each character on the Dark Side.

The whole film is so flat with barely any scenes that evoke the emotion of the originals. The jokes fall flat. The acting is flat bordering on bad. The story is complete rip off.

Positives:

The special effects were great!

Honestly don't know how anyone could rank this attempt to be anywhere close to the originals. I won't be bothered going to see the next one.

Sudden Valley

I thought the good guys had the better actors. Gleeson, Driver., and the gollum lookalike (snoak?) were terrible. In all the copying of plots from the previous films did they not remember that Dath Vaders motivations were not revealed until the end of the second (fifth) film? Instead emo darth vader was revealed half way through this film.

Tony EH

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I'm not sure why you had to tell me all of that!

It's more of a general post, rather than one telling you anything specifically.

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I'm well aware how bad the prequels were especially as we've had countless posts about them in this very thread over the last couple of years....but there's no point pretending they don't exist. The fact remains that they are an intrinsic part of the overall Star Wars story.

To me the prequels don't exist, because Star Wars begins perfectly well with 'Star Wars'. I can safely say that I will NEVER watch them again. Life is too short. I've almost completely forgotten 'Attack of the Clones' and I'm looking forward to forgetting the other two as well. I've made enough excuses for them over the years, but I just have to be honest with myself. They're feckin terrible. I think as Disney's custodianship of the franchise continues and if they pump out a few , most Star Wars fans will stop making excuses for them as well.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I reckon Disney are going to make real efforts to separate "their" series from the prequels as much as they can and they'd be entirely correct to do so. As this trilogy progresses, there won't be a single mention of medicholrians, Naboo, Gungans, Jar Jar, ad nauseum.

One of the things I was most happy about with 'The Force Awakens' was the sheer dearth of prequel reference.

cowboyBuilder

quarryman wrote: »

Are you smoking crack? Seriously. You can't genuinely believe this.



Saw the movie last night and despite hoping Abrams would make a solid addition to the franchise... it was largely a disappointment.

My criticisms in no particular order:

Was the plot just lifted from the previous movies and remade?

Terrible acting by the actors playing Rey and Finn. Cringey at times. They're trying too hard in every scene, though it improves slightly towards the end.

The scenes when each of the actors from the original appear was an opportunity missed in all cases. With the exception of the one at the end.

Good guys that I don't like enough to care about. Bad guys I don't hate enough to hope they get killed. Which is completely the opposite to the films 4,5 an 6 where you really despised each character on the Dark Side.

The whole film is so flat with barely any scenes that evoke the emotion of the originals. The jokes fall flat. The acting is flat bordering on bad. The story is complete rip off.

Positives:

The special effects were great!

Honestly don't know how anyone could rank this attempt to be anywhere close to the originals. I won't be bothered going to see the next one.

I do sorry ...

Shoot me !!! it's my opinion

:cool:

Mickeroo

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I thought the good guys had the better actors. Gleeson, Driver., and the gollum lookalike (snoak?) were terrible. In all the copying of plots from the previous films did they not remember that Dath Vaders motivations were not revealed until the end of the second (fifth) film? Instead emo darth vader was revealed half way through this film.

He isn't Darth Vader though. There was enough plot points in the film rehashed from the original trilogy, without making him the same as Vader too. I thought Kylo Ren was one of the best things about it.

brevity

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/679007322795089920

Good tweet by Rian Johnson.

quarryman

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

I do sorry ...

Shoot me !!! it's my opinion

:cool:

Which you're entitled to.

Could you elaborate though. Why do you think it's the best Star Wars film ever made?

Mr Freeze

Sure someone in here said The Phantom Menace was their favourite and were being serious.

I don't see why anyone should go out of their way to explain why they say The Force Awakens is their favourite Star Wars film yet.

orubiru

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Extraordinarily popular blockbuster film? Check
Rabid levels of internet discussion about extraordinarily popular blockbuster film? Check
Obscene amount of clickbait articles / forum posts attempting to nitpick every single plot detail about extraordinarily popular blockbuster film? Check

I too partially blame those frickin' Red Letter Media videos

Yes, like pretty much every film, there are details here underexplained or underexplored. And yeah bad writing in general is to be discouraged. But for all the talk of 'critics' sucking the joy out of films, the 'nitpicking' (is there a more accurate word?) to me is truly joyless. Maybe it's just what I enjoy in films - the visuals, the aesthetics, the macro-level emotional/thematic storytelling, the talented actors / directors / cinematographers etc... putting all their effort into what's on screen. If a film fails on most of these levels, it's likely to be a failure generally. Certainly there are annoyances or grievances here and there with The Force Awakens, but in those areas I just listed I thought the film was dangerous close to a triumph (allowing, of course, for the fact that we're not exactly dealing with Michael Haneke or Tsai-ming Liang levels of formal and authorial control here :pac:). Star Wars, I'd go as far as saying, is a series that at its best has always embraced wholeheartedly the broadest stroke storytelling - melodramatic, goofy and totally over-the-top.

Few could forget the sheer level of nitpickery that surrounded the Dark Knight Rises, and I still think the AV Club's take on that remains among the few (yet totally worthwhile) articles decrying the level of pedantry that surrounds many blockbusters these days:

Agreed 100%.

I think that most people just don't really know how to properly criticize movies.

I can see people sharing the Mr Plinkett reviews around and understanding that they are hilarious, over the top, reviews (actually I think some of the humour is a bit too disturbing, or "problematic" if you prefer, but whatever) but they really only engage with them on a superficial level. "Oh my gooooood whats wrong with your face?" is funny but actually "one of the characters looked really goofy" is not a proper criticism. I think the Plinkett reviews are about 5 hours in total so they do contain some deep analysis. I think what some people take away though is the very basic idea that you criticize a movie by sifting through every little detail and point and shout at every single thing that makes no sense.

Generally, I try to respond by just asking what movies these folks actually like. Or even asking them what they actually get out of watching movies.

As you say, Star Wars is supposed to be focused around fun and geeky excitement most of all. This new movie might not be a great movie but I would argue that it was an absolutely perfect Star Wars movie. I don't believe for a second that there are people out there who loved the Originals who don't love this. For folks who liked or enjoyed the prequels then this must seem like a life-changing masterpiece. Yet, all I see everywhere is people analyzing it to the Nth degree. This was wrong, that was wrong. It's almost all negativity. Like we've somehow been conditioning people to go to the cinema and sit there ready to hate films instead of having the sense of wonder that I believe people had in 1977.

Looking at the kind of mainstream movies coming out at the time, I feel like late 70s and early 80s audiences were going to the cinema to be entertained. Star Wars delivered that by simply attempting to provide entertainment. It wasn't trying to provide deep, complex, philosophical insight into Life and The Universe. It was supposed to just be fun and exciting.

In the current climate I'm not even sure that the writers of "40 Unforgivable Plot Holes" etc get any enjoyment out of movies. It seems like they enjoy this mean spirited "destruction" of cinema instead. They are out to prove that they are intellectually better than the movie, maybe?

What would be a perfect movie for these people and how would they determine if/when a film reaches that perfect standard?

For me, a critic is someone who can look at a piece of art and provide opinions based on the construction of that art. How is it crafted? In movie terms you'd be looking at plot, storytelling technique, characters, acting, general aesthetic and how it all engages the audience.

This sort of "40 Plot Holes" nonsense is basically the opposite of that. They start out with the deliberate goal of saying that the movie sucks and will then reach desperately for anything that can help them make that point. It's bizarre.

cowboyBuilder

david75 wrote: »

Production notes to the skelig shoot says Luke is guarding a sith tomb.

really ? interesting, I wonder who and why he needs to guard it ?

Coburger

What do people here think about Han Solo being in Episode 8 (check IMDB and it has Harrison Ford signed up to be in the film)? Here's hoping it's a flashback scene

orubiru

quarryman wrote: »

Honestly don't know how anyone could rank this attempt to be anywhere close to the originals. I won't be bothered going to see the next one.

I'll have a go at answering this.

First of all I think you are giving the originals WAY to much reverence. They are great, fun, movies but they are wide open to all of the criticisms you've leveled at TFA.

Plot is basically "Hero's Journey - In Space".
The acting is camp and hell and way over the top at times.
Vader is the only real "Bad Guy" until Episode VI and he's not much more than an ineffective henchman until Episode V.
Luke is an annoying brat until Episode V.
The Luke, Leia, Han "love triangle" is... erm... interesting?
C-3PO is a bit irritating and much of the humor doesn't really land.

None of that matters. Why? Because Star Wars is loads of fun.

I think The Empire Strikes Back stands alone as a perfect storm of good storytelling decisions, good soundtrack, good special effects and great acting. I wouldn't compare any movie to it because I believe that when any movie is both unique and great there is no need to compare it to others. It stands alone.

A New Hope and Jedi, however, are just great action/adventure movies. They contain the elements that have become Star Wars trademarks and they keep the audience engaged with well paced, clear and well presented action. The characters are accessible, relate-able, and their motivations are understandable.

They were never particularly deep or challenging movies. I always saw them as a real "open to all" experience. You could imagine introducing them to almost anyone knowing that they will have a good time watching.

Maybe you wouldn't be so keen to introduce them to the hyper sensitive, hyper critical, modern movie goer... :rolleyes:

I feel that The Force Awakens absolutely delivers on all of those points. It's a beautifully shot movie. The motivations of the characters are clear. There is a bit of humor, a bit of tension, a bit of tragedy and a bit of action. What more could you possibly expect from a Star Wars film?

At it's heart, it's a fun action-adventure set in the world of Star Wars. There's familiar stuff and new stuff and it all sticks pretty close to the source material. It's obviously made by people who love Star Wars and I think that shines through. There is care and attention to detail in almost every scene.

For me, it does pretty much exactly what ANH and ROTJ did. It provides the same level of fun and goofiness and also provides the same level of drama and tension. Effects wise, it is pretty spot on.

So, yeah, I put it on a level with the originals but I'd still say that Empire Strikes Back is a very special, legendary, movie that will probably never be bettered within the Star Wars franchise.

What I am wondering is what you expected it to be?
What would have been a satisfying movie for you?
Can you name a couple of recent movies TFA could have benefited from been more similar to?

Walter E GO

Reys vision when she touched the saber, is explained as both hers and Lukes memories.

"Spoiler alert: When Daisy Ridley’s Rey experiences a powerful flashback after finding Luke Skywalker’s old lightsaber, her memories mingle with Luke’s – leaving her confused and overwhelmed."

Link:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/obi-wan-kenobi-and-yoda-cameoed-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens-did-you-spot-them-712611.html

orubiru

Walter E GO wrote: »

Reys vision when she touched the saber, is explained as both hers and Lukes memories.

"Spoiler alert: When Daisy Ridley’s Rey experiences a powerful flashback after finding Luke Skywalker’s old lightsaber, her memories mingle with Luke’s – leaving her confused and overwhelmed."

Link:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/obi-wan-kenobi-and-yoda-cameoed-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens-did-you-spot-them-712611.html

Another thing I'd give them credit for is putting enough into this movie to get people genuinely excited about the next episode.

I hope that they can deliver on that potential but for now I think the speculation is great.

With a lot of other popular franchises like Lord of the Rings or Marvel/Avengers we've already read the books or we know which storylines (including origin stories and reboots) are coming up in 2, 3, 10 years.

With Star Wars we have a sense of genuine "what's going to happen next" expectation.

david75

orubiru wrote: »

I'll have a go at answering this.

First of all I think you are giving the originals WAY to much reverence. They are great, fun, movies but they are wide open to all of the criticisms you've leveled at TFA.

Plot is basically "Hero's Journey - In Space".
The acting is camp and hell and way over the top at times.
Vader is the only real "Bad Guy" until Episode VI and he's not much more than an ineffective henchman until Episode V.
Luke is an annoying brat until Episode V.
The Luke, Leia, Han "love triangle" is... erm... interesting?
C-3PO is a bit irritating and much of the humor doesn't really land.

None of that matters. Why? Because Star Wars is loads of fun.

I think The Empire Strikes Back stands alone as a perfect storm of good storytelling decisions, good soundtrack, good special effects and great acting. I wouldn't compare any movie to it because I believe that when any movie is both unique and great there is no need to compare it to others. It stands alone.

A New Hope and Jedi, however, are just great action/adventure movies. They contain the elements that have become Star Wars trademarks and they keep the audience engaged with well paced, clear and well presented action. The characters are accessible, relate-able, and their motivations are understandable.

They were never particularly deep or challenging movies. I always saw them as a real "open to all" experience. You could imagine introducing them to almost anyone knowing that they will have a good time watching.

Maybe you wouldn't be so keen to introduce them to the hyper sensitive, hyper critical, modern movie goer... :rolleyes:

I feel that The Force Awakens absolutely delivers on all of those points. It's a beautifully shot movie. The motivations of the characters are clear. There is a bit of humor, a bit of tension, a bit of tragedy and a bit of action. What more could you possibly expect from a Star Wars film?

At it's heart, it's a fun action-adventure set in the world of Star Wars. There's familiar stuff and new stuff and it all sticks pretty close to the source material. It's obviously made by people who love Star Wars and I think that shines through. There is care and attention to detail in almost every scene.

For me, it does pretty much exactly what ANH and ROTJ did. It provides the same level of fun and goofiness and also provides the same level of drama and tension. Effects wise, it is pretty spot on.

So, yeah, I put it on a level with the originals but I'd still say that Empire Strikes Back is a very special, legendary, movie that will probably never be bettered within the Star Wars franchise.

What I am wondering is what you expected it to be?
What would have been a satisfying movie for you?
Can you name a couple of recent movies TFA could have benefited from been more similar to?

I can't love this post anymore than I do.
Perfectly put without even bringing why people have to criticise people or even insult them for liKing something they don'tthemslves.

Mr Freeze

Walter E GO wrote: »

Link:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/obi-wan-kenobi-and-yoda-cameoed-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens-did-you-spot-them-712611.html

Where did they get that photo of Yoda for that artilce? :pac:

Is it a parody/joke yoda photo and they don't realise it.

Technocentral

Walter E GO wrote: »

Reys vision when she touched the saber, is explained as both hers and Lukes memories.

"Spoiler alert: When Daisy Ridley’s Rey experiences a powerful flashback after finding Luke Skywalker’s old lightsaber, her memories mingle with Luke’s – leaving her confused and overwhelmed."

Link:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/obi-wan-kenobi-and-yoda-cameoed-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens-did-you-spot-them-712611.html

She can touch my sabre anytime

Cantona's Collars

silverbolt

i had a thought that would really piss off all those morons who are hating on the fact that the leads in this movie are a black male and a woman.

Make Finn and Poe gay. - officially not just in the slash fic thats bound to pop up

That would thier idiotic little heads surely pop

david75

Title for episode 8 has leaked