Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

py2006

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Obi Wan calling her ?

Who's voice did they use ?

Ewan McGregors ?

Him and Alec Guinness.

They trimmed down Alec saying "Afraid" from the original movie to make it sound like "Rey".

Red King

Tigger wrote: »

ben?

Rey's real name could be Beru after Luke's Aunt. Lol

cowboyBuilder

py2006 wrote: »

Him and Alec Guinness.

They trimmed down Alec saying "Afraid" from the original movie to make it sound like "Rey".

Wow!

nice, Ill look out for it on 2nd viewing, actually Im back in Dublin and thinking of taking my nephews to see it, anyone know if Santry cinema a decent place to see it in ?

py2006

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Wow!

nice, Ill look out for it on 2nd viewing, actually Im back in Dublin and thinking of taking my nephews to see it, anyone know if Santry cinema a decent place to see it in ?

You will have to listen carefully to get it.

Ewan comes in shortly after saying in a very low whispery voice, "these are your first steps".

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

Argh, I really don’t want to get into this endless theorising. I did this with Lost and it was a terrible mistake since Abrams’ mystery box formula was all about creating intriguing mysteries out of hanging plot threads that could be potentially answered a million different ways depending on the future direction of the story. On the Empire podcast, Kasdan said they didn’t want to dictate the direction of the next two films, which suggests to me that Abrams approached this film the same way he’d approach a tv pilot: keep your story options open.

To me that just says fan service, which in the end, ends up insipid.

And considering 'Lost' was made up as they went along and turned out to be an absolute load of bollocks...

Whatever happened to simply writing your bloody story.

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

There was nothing in ANH until Obi Wan told Luke when he was searched out and had to reveal it. He spent a similar/longer amount of time in the background never making contact with Luke (all he knew was a rumour of a hermit called Old Ben who was thought to be dead years).

That's not the case. Luke knows Ben before their scene in 'Star Wars', but hasn't heard him called Obi Wan.

Dricmeister

Tony EH wrote: »

That's not the case. Luke knows Ben before their scene in 'Star Wars', but hasn't heard him called Obi Wan.

Absolutely.

Luke knows Ben Kenobi..."she's asking for an Obi Wan Kenobi...I wonder if she means old Ben Kenobi?"

Obi Wan should be running witness protection programmes. He wants to hide Anakin Skywalker's son from him, so he leaves his name as "Luke Skywalker", puts him on Vader's home planet with Vader's step-family and calls himself "Ben Kenobi"...

Sad Professor

Tony EH wrote: »

To me that just says fan service, which in the end, ends up insipid.

And considering 'Lost' was made up as they went along and turned out to be an absolute load of bollocks...

Whatever happened to simply writing your bloody story.

They did write their story. But you can only write one movie at a time. I'm sure they had ideas for the next two, but since they weren't going to be making them they didn't want to be limiting whoever did get that job to what they came up with. Hell, even had Abrams committed to making all three, he wouldn't have wanted to limit himself to those ideas. Ideas develop, plans change.

Lucas made the OT up as he went along as well. The Vader twist was something he came up in the later drafts of Empire and changed the whole direction of the story.

david75

Kevin Smiths review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lfocnclUFQ&feature=youtu.be

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

They did write their story. But you can only write one movie at a time. I'm sure they had ideas for the next two, but since they weren't going to be making them they didn't want to be limiting whoever did get that job to what they came up with. Hell, even had Abrams committed to making all three, he wouldn't have wanted to limit himself to those ideas. Ideas develop, plans change.

Lucas made the OT up as he went along as well. The Vader twist was something he came up in the later drafts of Empire and changed the whole direction of the story.

Yeh, I know, which is why a lot of Star Wars looks like it's made up on the fly and subsequently makes Lucas look like a chancer, especially when he tries to shoehorn reason into the obvious changes in the story. But George Lucas isn't some sort of target here to be attained.

What I'm talking about is the propensity to alter stories based on what producers think fans want to see, cos it'll equal big bucks. It's usually to the detriment of the actual story and frankly, there was waaaay to much of that crap going on in 'The Force Awakens' already.

As for "writing one movie at a time", yeh you do. But it helps to have plot roughly laid out if you're deliberately setting up a trilogy (series) of films.

Besides, 'The Force Awakens' is a retread of previous Star Wars films. There was little in the way of new ideas here. The next two in the series will show whether the writers can come up with something genuinely good, or whether they'll make a 'Lost' out of it.

david75

Force awakens broke the Christmas Day record in the US with $49.1 million.

Comfortably on its way to breaking Avatars record with China and India yet to open.

david75

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh, I know, which is why a lot of Star Wars looks like it's made up on the fly and subsequently makes Lucas look like a chancer, especially when he tries to shoehorn reason into the obvious changes in the story. But George Lucas isn't some sort of target here to be attained.

What I'm talking about is the propensity to alter stories based on what producers think fans want to see, cos it'll equal big bucks. It's usually to the detriment of the actual story and frankly, there was waaaay to much of that crap going on in 'The Force Awakens' already.

As for "writing one movie at a time", yeh you do. But it helps to have plot roughly laid out if you're deliberately setting up a trilogy (series) of films.

Besides, 'The Force Awakens' is a retread of previous Star Wars films. There was little in the way of new ideas here. The next two in the series will show whether the writers can come up with something genuinely good, or whether they'll make a 'Lost' out of it.

The scripts and stories for the next two films are locked in.
This needed to feel like Star Wars to dispel the toxicity of the prequels.

It succeeded in spades for me. And many more.

J Mysterio

david75 wrote: »

Force awakens broke the Christmas Day record in the US with $49.1 million.

Comfortably on its way to breaking Avatars record with China and India yet to open.

India still doesnt have this? lol!

Right Turn Clyde

The numerous plot-holes in this film are well-documentated at this stage, but the one that I can't get over is Finn's duel with Ren. Finn is a (fairly) ordinary guy caught up in extraordinary events. He shouldn't be able to hold Ren off with a lightsaber. He actually puts it up to him at one stage! Worse still, Ren doesn't even try to use the Force on him, like we know he's capable of.

Who knows, perhaps the Force is 'awakening' in Finn as well, and that's why he's capable of putting up a fight? However, Ren gives no indication that Finn is inordinately troublesome or powerful, in the way that Rey is. The whole thing doesn't make sense.

I thought it was an enjoyable film but the near unanimous glowing reviews have me baffled. It's just so badly written. I mean the ease with which the Starkiller Base is destroyed is laughable! At the screening I was in we all just erupted in big, loud, Catholic yelps. Ridiculous.

Chain Smoker

Ah there's tons of holes and I'd say 90% of it is by design. I don't mean this as a particularly big criticism as it's damn near a necessity for the first film, but it's a very safe film and by leaving a a lot of things up in the air, they're free to change things up and backtrack if they need to.

I'd say it actively benefits the first release of the new series in that people enjoy speculating on this kind of stuff. As I said earlier in the thread though, in the long term it means this one will retroactively be judged by how good the follow up is.

SimonTemplar

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

The numerous plot-holes in this film are well-documentated at this stage, but the one that I can't get over is Finn's duel with Ren. Finn is a (fairly) ordinary guy caught up in extraordinary events. He shouldn't be able to hold Ren off with a lightsaber. He actually puts it up to him at one stage! Worse still, Ren doesn't even try to use the Force on him, like we know he's capable of.

Ren was injured by Chewie's blaster which reduced his ability to fight and possibly his ability to use the force. Also, as a stormtrooper, I would assume that Finn has some combat training, obviously not with a lightsaber, but maybe something like a staff. If the lightsaber fights in The Force Awakens were like the highly choreographed balletic moves in the prequels, I would agree that Finn shouldn't be able to hold is own, but as it is, I don't have an issue with it for the reasons above.

Tigger

Dricmeister wrote: »

Absolutely.

Luke knows Ben Kenobi..."she's asking for an Obi Wan Kenobi...I wonder if she means old Ben Kenobi?"

Obi Wan should be running witness protection programmes. He wants to hide Anakin Skywalker's son from him, so he leaves his name as "Luke Skywalker", puts him on Vader's home planet with Vader's step-family and calls himself "Ben Kenobi"...

The prequels were clearly a dream

karaokeman

Anyone reckon The Force Awakens will beat Avatar for the all time box office?

With the way things have been going I'm thinking it will definitely beat Jurassic World at least seen as how its nearing $1 billion now (if it reaches that today it will beat JW's record as the fastest film to reach that number, but if it achieves that by tomorrow it will be the same) and unlike that film The Force Awakens still hasn't opened in China (where it will be wildly successful because China is the second largest market).

Also, there's still a more than $1 billion between Avatar and Jurassic World so even if Star Wars beats the latter it will still be a bit of an uphill battle, and the higher priced 3D tickets made up a big chunk of Avatar's box office, which won't be the case for Star Wars.

Myrddin

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Also, as a stormtrooper, I would assume that Finn has some combat training, obviously not with a lightsaber, but maybe something like a staff.

Given we actually see a storm trooper throw down his weapon, in order to fight Finn hand to hand with some kind of built in baton weapon, it's a very safe assumption that Finn would have been trained to use this very same weapon.

OwaynOTT

Knowing how to use a spear/staff is not at all like knowing how to use a sword.

Myrddin

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Knowing how to use a spear/staff is not at all like knowing how to use a sword.

And that's evident in how the storm trooper almost killed him. Granted, it is a large jump to then fight someone like Ren, but it's not as if holding a light sabre was the first time he ever fought using a weapon of that nature (ie, something other than a blaster)

Sad Professor

This is "how did Batman get back to Gotham" all over again. I mean honestly! Rey carries a big staff. Finn is a Stormtropper. I think they can block, parry and evade.

Their limited melee weapon skills are better established than Luke's ever were. Obi-wan and Yoda only ever taught him about levitating rocks while hand standing. Never do they suggest his sword fighting skills are important before sending him off to a duel. But you'll never hear anyone say that that's a plot hole. Instead we're just meant to assume that Luke took fencing classes on Hoth or Yavin because I'm sure the Rebels had time for that. Or that Yoda showed him some things during the week he spent on Dagobah even though back then Lucas said Yoda was a Jedi guru who didn't use a lightsaber.

Red King

Nitpicking to this extent will ruin any movie.

Anyway, I love it. I've never gone to see the same film more than once in a cinema but I will for The Force Awakens.

Radiosonde

Tigger wrote: »

The prequels were clearly a dream

The number of inconsistencies between the prequels and the OT just make it easier to ignore I-III. They might officially be "immovable objects of canon," but in my mind there is no connection between the events of the two trilogies.

clear thinking

Great movie, 7.5/10 for me and worth the tenner, and possibly even a second go.

Given that its a fantastical universe etc the only major gripe I had was the death-planet. If it absorbed all the energy of the star it would have had the mass of the star yet everyone was prancing around on what appeared to be a 1g surface.

Any of the other nitpicking I have heard or read is just that - How did Rey get so good at fighting and using the force - who cares, it's just obvious from the story that she did so build a bridde etc....

orubiru

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

I thought it was an enjoyable film but the near unanimous glowing reviews have me baffled. It's just so badly written. I mean the ease with which the Starkiller Base is destroyed is laughable! At the screening I was in we all just erupted in big, loud, Catholic yelps. Ridiculous.

I can't really understand why anyone would be baffled by unanimous glowing reviews of any movie, really. If reviews are unanimously pretty positive then its almost certain that a lot of the movies various elements are excellent.

A film is more than just "the story".

You have to consider the art direction and the tone of the movie. Film is a visual medium. This movie looks amazing. It's highly detailed and some of the shots are jaw dropping, especially for Star Wars fans. Most reviews picked up on this.

The characters are particularly well written for an action adventure movie. The actors playing the roles also do an excellent job of portraying those characters. There's chemistry between them and they convey the various emotions of the film in a believable way. Most reviewers also picked up on this.

You have a lot of emotional moments and the film offers a few different ways for the audience to become engaged. The humor hits the mark, mostly. The many references to old school Star Wars mostly hit the mark. The action is exciting. There is a little bit of darkness, a hint of sadness an ultimately a hopeful message. This movie has heart. Again, most reviewers would notice and take note of that.

Reviewers of movies don't say "Pfft. This guy isn't trained to use that weapon. This movie is garbage!" There's more to it than that. Much more.

I often read comments on Boards where a poster has watched a Cam recording of something like Mad Max : Fury Road on their iPad and will say "story is all that matters". Honestly, though if that's your attitude towards films then you are really missing out on a lot.

There is so much more to a movie than the plot. Yes, the plot of The Force Awakens is very simple. There is a good reason for that and any respectable reviewer would be able to see it. The simple plot is required to allow other elements to be given time. This can be a delicate balance.

A movie like this requires a lot of world building. A movie like this also needs to incorporate a lot of fun and a lot of fast moving action. This is a movie about characters and their relationships. The plot will inevitably suffer because of this. There is only so much you can do within a 2 hour running time. It's supposed to be an adventure with likeable heroes going up against intimidating antagonists. It's not supposed to be a hefty tome about love, war, politics and religion.

No movie can be all things to all people but any movie can be "nit-picked" to death. The Force Awakens delivers on many various levels. Looking into the minutiae or the plot in order to find things to criticize is fine but the movie has so many other, significant, positive aspects. Reviewers wouldn't be saying "Great cinematography, great script, great acting, the tone feels just right, it hits a lot of satisfying emotional beats, its exciting and fun BUT they blew up the enemy base too easily so it's a thumbs down from me."

Gbear

Sad Professor wrote: »

This is "how did Batman get back to Gotham" all over again. I mean honestly! Rey carries a big staff. Finn is a Stormtropper. I think they can block, parry and evade.

Their limited melee weapon skills are better established than Luke's ever were. Obi-wan and Yoda only ever taught him about levitating rocks while hand standing. Never do they suggest his sword fighting skills are important before sending him off to a duel. But you'll never hear anyone say that that's a plot hole. Instead we're just meant to assume that Luke took fencing classes on Hoth or Yavin because I'm sure the Rebels had time for that. Or that Yoda showed him some things during the week he spent on Dagobah even though back then Lucas said Yoda was a Jedi guru who didn't use a lightsaber.

And anyway, a big thing shown in the film is regardless where her strength in the force is coming from, Rey learns to trust it and let it do the thinking for her.

I recently read one of the no longer canon Darth Maul books and one thing it covered quite well was how on the one hand Maul was rigourously trained like a ninja assassin kind of fella, but how utterly useless those near-superhuman muscle-memory reactions were in comparison to the actually super-human effects of just immersing himself in the force and working on instinct.

That's what Rey does against Kylo Ren.
He's hurt, he's desperate, he's angry, he's totally lost control. And he's pretty much kicking her ass.
She chills out, listens to the force and lets it do all the heavy lifting and gives him a savage beating.

shootermacg

Gbear wrote: »

And anyway, a big thing shown in the film is regardless where her strength in the force is coming from, Rey learns to trust it and let it do the thinking for her.

I recently read one of the no longer canon Darth Maul books and one thing it covered quite well was how on the one hand Maul was rigourously trained like a ninja assassin kind of fella, but how utterly useless those near-superhuman muscle-memory reactions were in comparison to the actually super-human effects of just immersing himself in the force and working on instinct.

That's what Rey does against Kylo Ren.
He's hurt, he's desperate, he's angry, he's totally lost control. And he's pretty much kicking her ass.
She chills out, listens to the force and lets it do all the heavy lifting and gives him a savage beating.

Yeah you can look at it many ways. But to me they should have just managed to evade Ren through blind luck, leaving him his menace. Now he's just an emo in a mask and nothing like a vader in my book.

I'm hoping they introduce a better baddie, because he's a bit of a bitch tbh.

Ipso

Got to see this last night and was very impressed. It looked more like the original trilogy (the prequels seem like a video game in comparison).
Most if the actors done a good job (wasn't too impressed by Gleeson though), I really liked Ren. Are we to assume he got off the imploding planet/weapon?
The planet being destroyed was a bit ott, they thought they had a good chance of destroying the weapon but end up vaporizing the entire planet.

And Skellig Michael looked amazing, who would have thought they had a parking spot for a Millenium Falcon!

Gbear

shootermacg wrote: »

Yeah you can look at it many ways. But to me they should have just managed to evade Ren through blind luck, leaving him his menace. Now he's just an emo in a mask and nothing like a vader in my book.

I'm hoping they introduce a better baddie, because he's a bit of a bitch tbh.

Hopefully that's what "completing his training" is going to entail.

In killing Han he's proven his commitment, but in getting bested by 2 nobodies, failing to find Skywalker and being partly responsible for Starkiller bases' destruction, he's shown that he's well off the pace.

I think that was fully intentional though.

As many have mentioned, he goes from this incredibly intimidating horror to essentially a little bitch by the end of the film.
While that takes away from his intimidation factor later on in the film it does give him room for growth as a character - something that's been sorely lacking from Disney's other adopted children from the Marvel universe.