Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

J Mysterio

Dricmeister wrote: »

Despite the issues with I, II, and III, you should watch I to VI in that order if you're coming to it fresh.

Agree. I actually like 1 having watched it again last week. 2 really os **** but 3 is a good Star Wars film.

seligehgit

I've seen it twice now.Initially in 3D and really enjoyed it in spite of the similarities in plot to A New Hope.Massive improvement on the awful prequel trilogy.Loved Rey,Poe Dameron,Finn and Kylo Ren as new characters.Bit of a Lara Croft vibe off Rey,Rey's theme is a beautiful piece of music.

After the second viewing just wondering if Rey cut off Ren's hand in the final light sabre duel?Found it a tad bizarre that Chewbacca walked past Leia after Han died.

tok9

I only watched the original trilogy this year before seeing this and I honestly don't think they hold up.

As a child or a person who grew up with these movies I can see why you'd be blown away but now as a more critical film viewer they have a lot of flaws.

To be honest you'd probably know most of the references to the older movies anyway as they are so saturated in all media now. I did anyway prior to watching them.

Sad Professor

seligehgit wrote: »

After the second viewing just wondering if Rey cut off Ren's hand in the final light sabre duel?Found it a tad bizarre that Chewbacca walked past Leia after Han died.

Kylo still has both of his hands.

As for Chewie, I don’t think Abrams really knew what to do with him. And the actor in the suit lacked Mayhew's personality.

IncognitoMan

Into The Blue wrote: »

If coming to the series fresh, don't watch prequels till you've seen empire strikes back..

Otherwise, you'd ruin the reveal.

Is there anyone who doesn't know the reveal? It has shown up so often in pop culture it would be next to impossible to go in not knowing now.

nyarlothothep

Possibly one of the worst films I've seen this year. Utterly generic, bland, 1 dimensional characters I couldn't relate to and therefore couldn't get immersed in the film. It was just a bunch of action scenes edited together. I was lowering my expectations to be blown away because I distrust hype but this film actually dissapointed those already low expectations. It was just blaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............Rae was an incredibly dull character played by an incredibly dull actress, there was no character there! And it had typical Abrams flaws. The one that really annoyed me was the fact that anyone can fight with a light saber and even beat an experienced user of it through the force aka plot armour. In the originals it took Luke Skywalker 3 films to be able to legitimately take on Darth Vader and win, in this it takes Rae 5 mins within using the lightsaber to defeat generic baddie. And this is the same in Star Trek, Kirk goes from being a cadet to captain in 2 hours. It's instant gratification culture, that's what! Nothing in this film appealed to me, it was like a film assembled by machines, it was film by numbers, nice to look at but soulless. 2/5.

Grayditch

Radiosonde wrote: »

Gleeson's performance is fine. Hux is simply a much younger and less assured military leader than Tarkin.

Without comparing him to anyone, I think I know what he was going for with the carachter, but delivery wise, it was actually bad acting. Probably only noticeable when magnified by the performances everywhere else in the film.

Boo Radley

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Possibly one of the worst films I've seen this year. Utterly generic, bland, 1 dimensional characters I couldn't relate to and therefore couldn't get immersed in the film. It was just a bunch of action scenes edited together. I was lowering my expectations to be blown away because I distrust hype but this film actually dissapointed those already low expectations. It was just blaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............Rae was an incredibly dull character played by an incredibly dull actress, there was no character there! And it had typical Abrams flaws. The one that really annoyed me was the fact that anyone can fight with a light saber and even beat an experienced user of it through the force aka plot armour. In the originals it took Luke Skywalker 3 films to be able to legitimately take on Darth Vader and win, in this it takes Rae 5 mins within using the lightsaber to defeat generic baddie. And this is the same in Star Trek, Kirk goes from being a cadet to captain in 2 hours. It's instant gratification culture, that's what! Nothing in this film appealed to me, it was like a film assembled by machines, it was film by numbers, nice to look at but soulless. 2/5.

So, you won't be going for a 2nd viewing then?

S.M.B.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Kylo still has both of his hands.

As for Chewie, I don’t think Abrams really knew what to do with him. And the actor in the suit lacked Mayhew's personality.

Was it not Mayhew in the suit?



Edit: On second thoughts, I'm assuming his double was in the suit for the majority of the movie.

Sad Professor

S.M.B. wrote: »

Was it not Mayhew in the suit?



Edit: On second thoughts, I'm assuming his double was in the suit for the majority of the movie.

Yeah I assume anytime Chewie is standing or walking it’s the double. He was fine, but I would have liked a bit more characterisation like Kershner (over?)did on Empire. It’s very easy for sidekick characters to fade into the background. Abrams may have had the Jar Jar factor on his mind or there was more stuff and it ended up on the cutting room floor. There was a scene of Chewie ripping Unkar Putt’s arm off that was cut.

J Mysterio

Sad Professor wrote: »

There was a scene of Chewie ripping Unkar Putt’s arm off that was cut.

isnt he the scrap dealer on Jakku? When might Chewie have achieved that? As far as im aware he never went there.

Sad Professor

J Mysterio wrote: »

isnt he the scrap dealer on Jakku? When might Chewie have achieved that? As far as im aware he never went there.

Putt followed them to Maz's place.

Slashfilm have a good piece on what was cut

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/#more-331164

J Mysterio

Sad Professor wrote: »

Putt followed them to Maz's place.

Slashfilm have a good piece on what was cut

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/#more-331164

Some good stuff there, cheers.

Eoin247

Into The Blue wrote: »

If coming to the series fresh, don't watch prequels till you've seen empire strikes back..

Otherwise, you'd ruin the reveal.

If you don't know what the "big reveal" is then you probably don't own a TV or a computer to watch the movies on, since you'd be living in a hut with no electricity or running water somewhere in the amazon that has been left untouched by modern civilization.

eviltimeban

Sad Professor wrote: »

RED REY (narrating as the Falcon flies away): I find I'm so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitement only a Jedi in training can feel, a Jedi at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it to the island. I hope to see Luke and give him his lightsaber back. I hope he can teach me the ways of the Force. I hope.

That's cheese-tastic. She might as well say "I need to give people... A NEW HOPE"

eviltimeban

Wedwood wrote: »

The original Star Wars itself included using the plot of Kurosawas 'Hidden Fortress', elements of the Lord of the Rings and Flash Gordon. Some of the scenes particularly on Tattooine are direct lifts from old westerns. Far from denying these, Lucas actually highlighted them to demonstrate how the movie was inspired by these old movies.

The same approach is being taken with the new movie, which is partly why it's doing so well.

The difference is that Lucas took ideas from other genres and put them into Star Wars. Not ideas from other Star Wars movies!

Morshlac

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Possibly one of the worst films I've seen this year. Utterly generic, bland, 1 dimensional characters I couldn't relate to and therefore couldn't get immersed in the film. It was just a bunch of action scenes edited together. I was lowering my expectations to be blown away because I distrust hype but this film actually dissapointed those already low expectations. It was just blaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............Rae was an incredibly dull character played by an incredibly dull actress, there was no character there! And it had typical Abrams flaws. The one that really annoyed me was the fact that anyone can fight with a light saber and even beat an experienced user of it through the force aka plot armour. In the originals it took Luke Skywalker 3 films to be able to legitimately take on Darth Vader and win, in this it takes Rae 5 mins within using the lightsaber to defeat generic baddie. And this is the same in Star Trek, Kirk goes from being a cadet to captain in 2 hours. It's instant gratification culture, that's what! Nothing in this film appealed to me, it was like a film assembled by machines, it was film by numbers, nice to look at but soulless. 2/5.

haha yes!

had forgotten about the instant use of force but yet annother thing that annoyed me watching it.
and the irritating robot convo's where u hear BEEP BEEP and trying to piece together the convo hearing only half of it, that was done so much better in the earlier movies it was blatantly 3d printing or however they copy movies these days..

it was pretty boring just meh, but infuriating given the hype feel was a waste of money paying for this in 3D.
Suprisingly us that don't like it amongst the movie going public don't have some deep rooted psychological condition that means we will express a particular view on an anonymous forum to appear part of a particular sect.....errrr no it just sucked

its a cash cow

Into The Blue

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Is there anyone who doesn't know the reveal? It has shown up so often in pop culture it would be next to impossible to go in not knowing now.

Yeah, there's a whole generation who are enjoying it for the first time.

Into The Blue

Eoin247 wrote: »

If you don't know what the "big reveal" is then you probably don't own a TV or a computer to watch the movies on, since you'd be living in a hut with no electricity or running water somewhere in the amazon that has been left untouched by modern civilization.

Or were just born a few years ago and have been watching fireman Sam/peppa pig.

tok9

If you watch any tv/film you should know the reveal. I only watched the original trilogy this year and I've known about it since I was a kid.

Chain Smoker

Was the big reveal ever really that big of a deal? The way that's what people focus on in regards to Empire nearly seems insulting, as if it were some kind of soap like thing desperately reliant on shocks and twists.

I like the third one a lot still in spite of Christiansen, but the idea you should watch it or the other prequels before the original trilogy for the sake of narrative cohesion is ridiculous when the whole legacy of the series was built years before it was ever made. If the third one works at all, it's largely because of how it sets up what would become the world of the trilogy people like.

orubiru

pixelburp wrote: »

FFS. Or maybe some people simply didn't enjoy the new Star Wars as much as other people. It is possible you know. We do however live in an age where not conforming to the majority view on the internet tends to attract mean spirited comments like the above; nasty little personal comments that add nothing to the discussion and instead, inevitably, create division and argument.

Heaven forbid some people don't enjoy something as much as you do - it clearly must be done to some inner insecurity or desire to appear superior. Yes. Clearly. I just thought Force Awakens made too much of a deal in rehashing its own mythology. Little did I know it was simply because of some psychological inferiority. The thread's now entering that fun phase of attacking the contrarians. Marvellous. Dark Knight all over again

Nah. I don't agree. Some criticisms simply aren't valid and I think it's fair enough to point out why they aren't valid. I think it's also fair to point out that some people's motivation for using certain criticisms can say a lot about them.

If someone says "this is one of the worst movies I have ever seen" then I am afraid that I must conclude that they have either not seen that many movies or are just being an attention seeker.

If someone says "I don't understand why this has good reviews" then I am going to conclude that this person doesn't understand how movie making works or doesn't understand professional movie criticism works or doesn't understand how either of those two work.

If someone makes daft comments regarding acting or special effects or says things like "it's just a rip off of..." then I am going to assume that they actually just didn't pay attention or don't know anything about acting, effects or storytelling.

So, I will accept that people can absolutely not enjoy a movie and that's just fine by me. It didn't appeal to them or it didn't speak to them at all. Maybe they don't like sci-fi. Maybe they don't like comedies. Whatever. That's fine.

However, if someone is going to engage in actual criticism of a film then "it's one of the worst ever" is going to have to come with a bit of explanation.

There are plenty of movies that I just don't like but I at least try to put some thought into the criticism. You know, maybe some examples and such.

I actually do agree with Wedwood that MANY movie goers think that mindless criticism demonstrates how the are much cleverer than the movie. In reality, mindless criticism just demonstrates that you consume movies mindlessly.

Look, there is obviously a progression in the kind of conversation that happens here. Someone comes along and makes a pretty dumb or ill-informed or illogical criticism of a movie. Another poster points this out and tries to get some clarification. Inevitably the "critic" can't elaborate and/or argue their position due to the previously mentioned mindless nature of the criticism. So we roll out the tried and tested "everyone is entitled to their opinion" type comments and we give our mindless critic a free pass.

Fine. It's only movies and all that. First World Problems. I get it.

I think it's plain to see that, as Dricmeister said, there is a tendency to slag off anything that's popular or mainstream. So let them defend their criticisms. If the analysis of the criticism reveals more about the personality of the critic then why shouldn't that be pointed out?

If you don't enjoy a movie then fair enough. You still have people saying daft things like "were the reviewers paid" or "one of the worst films I've seen this year" and I honestly think those are the kind of mindless criticisms that Wedwood and david75 were talking about.

Dricmeister

It's a bit much alright for people to claim that it's terrible. It's clearly not terrible.

Huntergonzo

Just saw it last night, thought it was ok but it was pretty similar to A New Hope, of course that makes it a hell of a lot better than any of the disgracefully bad prequel series movies.

Didn't really find many of the new main characters all that great or unique, especially Kylo Ren, he just gave me horrible flashbacks to Hayden Christensen, thought they could have gotten someone a bit older and more rough but I know that wouldn't have fit the story.

Ps, finally the main thing I noticed though was the amount of young, noisy children packed into the cinema. People for fúck sake stop bringing these screaming terrors to the cinema, nobody finds them adorable but yourself and they're a complete pain in the ass when you're trying to concentrate on a film.

Dricmeister

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Just saw it last night, thought it was ok but it was pretty similar to A New Hope, of course that makes it a hell of a lot better than any of the disgracefully bad prequel series movies.

Didn't really find many of the new main characters all that great or unique, especially Kylo Ren, he just gave me horrible flashbacks to Hayden Christensen, thought they could have gotten someone a bit older and more rough but I know that wouldn't have fit the story.

Ps, finally the main thing I noticed though was the amount of young, noisy children packed into the cinema. People for fúck sake stop bringing these screaming terrors to the cinema, nobody finds them adorable but yourself and they're a complete pain in the ass when you're trying to concentrate on a film.

What time did you go at?

Dricmeister

I have New Hope / IV on here in the background. Comparing Grand Moff Tarkin / Peter Cushing with General Hux / Domhnall Gleeson is like comparing Superman and Panti Bliss.

An extraordinary casting decision. He's like a prefect in a Harry Potter movie.

Huntergonzo

Dricmeister wrote: »

What time did you go at?

6.45, thought it might be safe enough, but the amount of young children in the cinema was incredible, it was like a bloody creche!

btw I'm not against people bringing children to childrens movies obviously, that's a given.

orubiru

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Was the big reveal ever really that big of a deal? The way that's what people focus on in regards to Empire nearly seems insulting, as if it were some kind of soap like thing desperately reliant on shocks and twists.

I like the third one a lot still in spite of Christiansen, but the idea you should watch it or the other prequels before the original trilogy for the sake of narrative cohesion is ridiculous when the whole legacy of the series was built years before it was ever made. If the third one works at all, it's largely because of how it sets up what would become the world of the trilogy people like.

I think of the prequels, the originals and now these new movies as being separate stories that take place in the same "universe" rather than an actual connected and continuous narrative spanning 7 (eventually 9) films.

The tone of the prequel movies does not line up with the tone of the original trilogy at all. The use of digital effects makes this mismatch even more jarring.

The narrative time jump of 40 years between VI and VII makes it impossible to finish episode VI and then just jump straight into VII and treat as a simple continuation of the same tale. It isn't.

Each group of 3 movies belongs to it's own real world time and place and has it's own target audience. Watching I, II and III works OK. I don't personally like them but there is a natural flow from one episode to the next to extent that you could stop when the credits roll and throw on the next episode and it all looks and feels the same.

The same applies to IV, V and VI. Hopefully the same will apply to the new trilogy.

If you finish Ep III and then immediately throw on IV then the effect is jarring. They'd don't belong together. They don't "fit" back to back.

There is very little cohesion between the respective trilogies so I agree with you that there is no reason at all to watch them back to back from Episode 1 to 7.

If you watch I, II and III with the sound off then I suppose they could serve as a nice kind of mythology or backdrop for the originals.

These new ones feel more like a "Homage to Star Wars" if I am being honest. The story of the original trilogy is pretty much contained within those three movies. Any new story will always feel like it's "in addition" to the story from the originals rather than a straight continuation of the tale.

Anything else that gets made outside the original 3 will always be seen by me as a prologue or an appendix or a spin off. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

However, since they are going to start making Star Wars films annually, I think it's only a matter of time before we get a sequence of box office and critical flops and the series takes a break for a few years before coming back with all new remakes and/or reboots.

I am pretty certain that once this current trilogy sequence ends they will make an effort to retcon the prequels.

Dricmeister

Huntergonzo wrote: »

6.45, thought it might be safe enough, but the amount of young children in the cinema was incredible, it was like a bloody creche!

btw I'm not against people bringing children to childrens movies obviously, that's a given.

But if noise from children is an issue for you at all, shouldn't you have gone later?

Going to see a 12A movie "during the day" means that noise from kids is inevitable.

Into The Blue

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Was the big reveal ever really that big of a deal? The way that's what people focus on in regards to Empire nearly seems insulting, as if it were some kind of soap like thing desperately reliant on shocks and twists.

I like the third one a lot still in spite of Christiansen, but the idea you should watch it or the other prequels before the original trilogy for the sake of narrative cohesion is ridiculous when the whole legacy of the series was built years before it was ever made. If the third one works at all, it's largely because of how it sets up what would become the world of the trilogy people like.

I can only apologise, and assure you that insulting anyone was the last thing on my mind.