Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

bilston

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Tbh the prequels were better, at least they had Lucas's vision however flawed that was. Abrams has no vision other than design by committee.

Nice of you to pop in George!

Seriously though, I'm just back from a second viewing and it was even better second time round. I loved it, absolutely loved it. I can't wait to see where Ep VIII takes it. I expect more Snoke, more Ren, more Rey and a hell of a lot more Luke. Oh and after second viewing there is no question in my mind that Rey is Luke's daughter.

Cienciano

I saw it today, seemed to me like a remake of a new hope. Fairly understandable with the money involved, safe bet to get the franchise back on track. Enjoyable action flick, that's it

seamus wrote: »

I went to a 21:15 showing and there were a couple of kids there who were under 10. They were fine thankfully, though occasionally with the odd, "What's that Dad, who said that?" or, "Yaaay, Chewie!".

You can't really guarantee it'll be free of kids at any time.

And that was just you :pac:

Means Of Escape

Watched it this evening . Expected Omniplex to be jammed.18 people at the 9pm show.looks like the hype drummed up interest to go and see it and many realised it just didn't have it . Why people think that JJ Abrams is the lifeblood of movies is beyond me.Singer or Nolan would have done as good if not better .
Darth Maul was more intimidating .
The lightsabre duels were pedestrian and this is 30 years later ?

It smacked of The Hunger Games
No new interesting alien creatures or characters like seen in the much maligned first three episodes.
Looked like Gollum made a cameo as he supreme ruler
Gleeson miscast and looked uncomfortable
Ford was a bonus but Hamil was underused

It lacked punch and overall a disappointment

david75

Lost me to belly laughter at Singer or Nolan

Roar

Brought my young niece with me to see it yesterday (it was my fourth viewing, gets better every time IMO).

Her two comments afterwards were

"My favourite bit was when the robot gave the thumbs up"

And

"I'm happy she found her dad at the end"

So there you have it. Rey IS Luke's daughter.

Dricmeister

After seeing it a second time, I'm convinced that Rey is Luke's daughter.

AnonoBoy

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Watched it this evening . Expected Omniplex to be jammed.18 people at the 9pm show.looks like the hype drummed up interest to go and see it and many realised it just didn't have it .

It's been out for 2 weeks. Every showing won't be jammed at this stage - I don't think you can draw any conclusions about people overall liking it or not by virtue of how many were at one specific screening.

I saw it at an afternoon showing this week in a large screen in Dublin and it was 80% full.

Liamario

Sad Professor wrote: »

Variety: George Lucas Says He Sold ‘Star Wars’ to ‘White Slavers’

Good ol’ George, still sticking it to Hollywood, even after taking their money. Never change.

Watch the full interview. That quote is taken completely out of context.

Turtyturd

I still believe that Rey being Luke's daughter would be an underwhelming revelation. Pretty much the first rule of writing a reveal like that is don't use your first idea because most people will have the same first thought. Hopefully they can come up with something that packs a bit more of a punch.

Although maybe it's impossible to do that these days given the amount of dissecting films get online. If this thread was about A New Hope would most people be rightly guessing who Luke's father was?

NIMAN

Turtyturd wrote: »

I still believe that Rey being Luke's daughter would be an underwhelming revelation. Pretty much the first rule of writing a reveal like that is don't use your first idea because most people will have the same first thought. Hopefully they can come up with something that packs a bit more of a punch.

Although maybe it's impossible to do that these days given the amount of dissecting films get online. If this thread was about A New Hope would most people be rightly guessing who Luke's father was?

Are we not talking about the man who helped write LOST, the show that had the most underwhelming reveal ever.

Turtyturd

NIMAN wrote: »

Are we not talking about the man who helped write LOST, the show that had the most underwhelming reveal ever.

I honestly don't know how much input he had into the overall story and the follow ups to the force awakens. The open ending re: Rey might mean the story of her origin was out of his hands.

david75

Liamario wrote: »

Watch the full interview. That quote is taken completely out of context.

Watched the whole interview with Lucas. He's actually bitter but legitimately with regards film making and distribution and marketing or studios even refusing to pick it up.

But he really should have checked himself when speaking about the sale to Disney.

Liamario

david75 wrote: »

Watched the whole interview with Lucas. He's actually bitter but legitimately with regards film making and distribution and marketing or studios even refusing to pick it up.

But he really should have checked himself when speaking about the sale to Disney.

The white slavers remark was nothing but a joke. People are reading way too much into it.

veganrun

Finally got around to seeing it yesterday evening. It was good. I tried my best to avoid all spoilers and reviews and had zero knowledge of the story going in, but accidentally stumbled across a rumour that either Han or Chewbacca got killed, so I kind of saw that coming or had the suspicion in my head.

I thought the big holographic baddie was like one of them big oager's out of Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit or something. Bit disappointed with his look. Although maybe it was just me, but the scar on his head seemed to remind me or at least line up with a mark on the damaged Darth Vader's helmet and made me wonder had they somehow regenerated him or something.

Ren was an ok baddie but lacked something. I think it would have been better had he not taken his mask off, as it made him seem like a wee bit of a stroppy teenager/fan boy who walks around in Star Wars gear.

I read that George Lucas had turned in story treatments for Episodes 7, 8 and 9 when he sold it to Disney but they had decided against using them. Not sure how that will work out and I wonder what they were.

I would have liked the light saber duels to be more aggressive, similar to the prequels but with less dancing around and showing off.

Overall though, those are minor gripes. I thought it was pretty good and would like to see it again.

Myrddin

veganrun wrote: »

I read that George Lucas had turned in story treatments for Episodes 7, 8 and 9 when he sold it to Disney but they had decided against using them. Not sure how that will work out and I wonder what they were.

Lucas lost all credibility with fans over the prequels, & given it was up to others to make the originals even watchable...it's safe enough to assume Disney's efforts would have demolished what Lucas put forward.

I would have liked the light saber duels to be more aggressive, similar to the prequels but with less dancing around and showing off.

I thought they were perfect really, given the art of using them had long since passed. They were raw, viscous, & had weight to them while still being deadly weapons...

brianregan09

Has anyone entertained the thought of both of them Ren and Rey being Lukes kids ?

eviltimeban

Saw it for the second time yesterday, and agree with what the above posters are saying - it was great fun the second time around and very enjoyable. I caught a few subtle things and also enjoyed the performances - was happy to see Poe again as I think he has the makings of a great character (his wisecracks to Kylo Ren at the start, for example. More of that in the next episode please).

eviltimeban

veganrun wrote: »

Ren was an ok baddie but lacked something. I think it would have been better had he not taken his mask off, as it made him seem like a wee bit of a stroppy teenager/fan boy who walks around in Star Wars gear.

The whole point. I got that so much more the second time around; he was just a chancer, had some skill with the force but hid behind the mask to make himself something he wasn't. He couldn't face off with Rey as she was / is going to be more of a "natural". Like Luke was. Ren was just trying to be something he wasn't.

veganrun wrote: »

I would have liked the light saber duels to be more aggressive, similar to the prequels but with less dancing around and showing off.

Someone else mentioned the lightsaber duels; I think they were perfect for the era. If there's no Jedi then no one's going to have been using lightsabers for 30 years, so the skills on display wouldn't be anything near the peak of Obi Wan / Qui Gon level, when the Jedi were at their absolute best and their skills honed from years of training and practice.

Mickeroo

brianregan09 wrote: »

Has anyone entertained the thought of both of them Ren and Rey being Lukes kids ?

I don't think there's any reason for Ren to be anyone but Han and Leia's son from a narrative point of view, since Leia and Luke are siblings it wouldn't change anything about the character so would seem a pretty superflous and pointless twist were it to be the case. It would diminish Han's death a little bit too.

Manach

On the duel, fantastic visuals aside, it was a suspension of belief too far. Sword fights by their nature betoken a measure of trained skill. In the excellent book on the history of such "By the Sword" by Cohen, he critics the excellent of such classic duels as in Flynn's Robin Hood or the excellent Prisoner of Zenda where the chars had the fictional background to be trained in swordplay. There is not a natural talent or beginners luck that would last a few strokes against a duellist who had some training.

Conall Cernach

Manach wrote: »

On the duel, fantastic visuals aside, it was a suspension of belief too far. Sword fights by their nature betoken a measure of trained skill. In the excellent book on the history of such "By the Sword" by Cohen, he critics the excellent of such classic duels as in Flynn's Robin Hood or the excellent Prisoner of Zenda where the chars had the fictional background to be trained in swordplay. There is not a natural talent or beginners luck that would last a few strokes against a duellist who had some training.

Maybe it wasn't "beginners luck". Finn may have had some melee training with sword like weapons as we saw with the trooper with the energy weapon. There is also an implied possibility that Rey was training to be a Jedi before her enforced exile.

NIMAN

Its only a film you know, its not real.

Mickeroo

If only there was some kind of magical "force" type thing in the film that could have been used to explain such things.

Sad Professor

I thought the lightsaber duels at the end were really well done. The characters look like they are actually trying to hit each other, not just dancing around like in the prequels. They are much closer in style to the OT duels, where it always seemed like the characters were channeling all their powers into the duel, using the Force to anticipate where the next blow would come. Hence why Obi-wan and Yoda never taught Luke sword-fighting but focused on his Force senses. Luke and Vader don’t really waste their energy doing meaningless displays of Force power like in the prequels. Their sword-fighting *is* a display of their power, hence Vader’s frequent expressions of admiration for Luke. He can sense it.

You’ll also notice each character wields the lightsaber differently. Finn swings it like melee weapon; Rey stabs it like a staff; and Kylo is more showy reflecting his greater training. Despite his superior skills, Kylo is still overly complacent in his duel with Finn, arrogantly trying to teach him a lesson until Finn nearly gets him, at which point Kylo ends things pretty quickly. Even with his injuries, Rey isn’t able to stand toe-to-toe with Kylo, so she uses the environment and her superior athleticism to her advantage. At least until the final moment when she harnesses the full power of the Force against him.

I also think visually it's was one of the most impressive duels. The white snow, the blackness of the forrest, the evaporated snow, the sound of crashing trees, and the hum of the lightsabers. It’s not as emotional as the duels in TESB or ROTJ, and perhaps not as epic as the one in TPM, but it’s close and easily beats the hacked to bits ones in ATOC and ROTS.

johnny_ultimate

Really enjoyed the way they used lightsabers in this film, and not just visually as Sad Prof mentioned above.

Probably because I've never really bought into the idea that only jedi can use them - I see it as more their 'trademark' weapon as opposed to something truly only usable by the gifted. Sure, training and some force awareness can build up their ninja deflecting / acrobatic skills something fierce and help them use it 'well', but it's basically a glorified sword. And given the serious damage that any untrained jackass can do with a sword or knife, it follows that the same follows with a lightsaber - and Finn's suitably clunky and messy first attempt at wielding one communicated that effectively, in a way the films hadn't up until that point (they've always mythicized the weapons out of proportion with what they actually are). Finn wielding a lightsaber seemed potentially deadly in a very different way than if a trained person was using it - and indeed both his attempts ultimately ended in defeat when it came to confronting a more talented melee fighter.

As for Rey, well the film went to very obvious extremes to illustrate just how preternaturally gifted she is. The exact reasons why remain up in the air for now, but what is clear is that she's an immensely talented individual when it comes to embracing the ol' force. It's interesting looking back at the original trilogy and seeing how limited Luke's abilities are in many respects - he doesn't even defeat the Emperor, that's Vader's doing. I felt Abrams was very clearly trying to portray Rey as a character much more powerful than anyone we've seen to date, which significantly differentiates her from Luke as a character. Her lightsaber skills follow that narrative logic. Nothing here IMO is as any more or less of a stretch than Luke's insane X-Wing piloting skills in A New Hope - if anything, Abrams spends much more time establishing Rey's abilities than the few offhand references to Womp Rats in the original film Curious to hear more of Rey's backstory - there's definitely the possibility it will undermine what we see here, but mostly I felt the filmmakers were confident enough of the character's history, even if they've held off telling the audience for now.

Above all there was a 'bloodiness' about the lightsabers here that has gone only irregularly referenced before. They can do serious damage - whether that's to people or the environment. It pulls off the tricky job of making them seem newly dangerous, but also more grounded and physically present.

david75

It was easily as good a lightsaber duel as any of the OT duels and better than a few. By far better than any of the duels in the prequels. They were all too choreographed and blatantly so. These were Raw vicious and brutal.
You don't have to know how to use a knife or sword to do serious damage with one. This is that and all the more realistic for it.

david75

Hate noticing stuff.

Why don't the X wings blow up Kylos big ship with the fins and the troop transports at the battle on Maz's planet? There's X wings taking out individual stormtroopers but not their means of escape?

That's gonna bug me.

Myrddin

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Probably because I've never really bought into the idea that only jedi can use them

Is that an actual thing?? Like yourself, I always felt it's just their trade-mark weapon...a samurai sword being used by a samurai basically. Luke was able to wield it before he ever heard of the force, & Han was able to wield one to cut a Taun Taun open...so I don't think there's much to suggest only a Jedi can use one.

Liam McPoyle

Went to see it today, enjoyed it well enough. As a stand alone sci fi flick its decent, as a Star Wars franchise its the best since Empire.

One thing that struck me throughout is that tonally it's much more of an adult movie than any of the previous movies. ROTS had some sections for an adult audience however I felt this one was quite dark throughout. We got to see people actually bleed which I don't believe happened much at all in the previous ones.

Very happy with it as a fan and looking forward to the next two.

Dricmeister

I think that Rey is Luke's daughter, so she's a direct lineal descendent of the midichlorians (like Kylo Ren). But I also think that she was trained as a youngling (unlike Luke or even Anakin), so she has extraordinary potential as a Jedi.