Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Wedwood

Interesting listening to Lucas' withering accusation that the new movie is designed for the fans and not what he had in mind. He also seems slighted that Disney ditched his story ideas after they purchased Lucasfilm. You suspect he was given to understand they would be the movies to be made, not JJ Abrams version.

You suspect he's most annoyed at the less than subtle sweeping of the prequels under the carpet by Force Awakens. There's virtually nothing in the new movie that acknowledges the prequels. Also, the ditching of the Lucas approved extended universe also probably means Lucas' version of the new movie would have included a follow on to that timeline and all the would have gone with that, Skywalker/Solo kids, Thrawn trilogy etc, which is all now effectively in the bin.

For most casual fans, this has liberated Star Wars from the weight of an overly geeky phenomenon built up over 30+ years and returned it to its simple roots.

It's hard to fathom how somebody who's been paid €4billion to hand over Lucasfilm, Star Wars included, can have any complaints afterwards. You'd be forgiven for thinking he's resenting the affection the new movie is getting in spite of it clearly reworking elements form the original movie, in contrast to the general dislike his prequel movies got.

Riddle101

Star Wars The Force Awakens. Stormtroopers, Lightsaber duels, dogfights in space, Chewbacka, Han Solo, Darth Vader's helmet, and possibly the most dysfunctional family in movie history. All in all a very enjoyable movie but not without it's flaws. Solid casting for the new generation, and a pretty good reboot to the series. Here's hoping for continued success with the series, although apparently JJ Abrams isn't directing the next movie, but from what I here JJ has given his blessing for the next movie which should be interesting. I give the movie 8/10

I read earlier that George Lucas was unhappy about the new movie or something. He even went so far as to say that he sold the franchise to white slavers, or as I like to put it Tusken Raiders. Either way i'm happy Lucas isn't apart of the series. I think he's done as far the Star Wars movies are concerned.

As for the movie itself. The captain of the Stormtroopers was pretty much like Boba Fett from the original movies. Very flashy but misused I thought. They kept her disappearance very vague though so who knows. All I heard was Solo saying something about putting her in a trash compactor which was a nod to A New Hope I believe. Then you have Kylo Ren. At first glance he just doesn't live up to the likes of Darth Vader or Darth Maul, but I believe that's the point of the character. I'm of the opinion that we're going to see some more character development from him in the future movies, or at least I hope so. I wondering about supreme leader Snoke though, and where they're going to go with him. Obviously he's like the Emperor of sorts but is there more to that I wonder? Either way, I don't think he has the same menace as Darth Sidious but then again how could anyone really compare to the old character from the original trilogy.

Nervous Wreck

Dricmeister wrote: »

I think that Rey is Luke's daughter, so she's a direct lineal descendent of the midichlorians (like Kylo Ren). But I also think that she was trained as a youngling (unlike Luke or even Anakin), so she has extraordinary potential as a Jedi.

Sshhhhh.....

Grayditch

Wedwood wrote: »

Interesting listening to Lucas' withering accusation that the new movie is designed for the fans and not what he had in mind.

He probably thinks these are mutually exclusive. His drive and vision are not with him the way they used to be. It almost feels like has contempt for the fans and that's not someone who should be making Star Wars films, even if he did create them.

TerrorFirmer

Lucas has a point though, he did strive to expand on the universe with each movie, introducing new races, hardware, planets, landscapes - it was very much a very credible and constantly expanding 'galaxy'.

That's what's wrong with TFA - it doesn't do enough to draw the viewer into that living and breathing world....in my opinion.

Dreadful script and acting aside, Lucas's films were filled with excellent lightsaber duels, epic space battles, and a fine sense of scale - all sorely lacking from TFA which felt like a far more localized experience, in part due to the piss poor efforts to establish any coherent narrative on what the situation across the Galaxy actually is.

The inaugrual firing of Starkiller Base, mirroring the destruction of Alderaan, should have been a pivotal and menacing moment in the movie - but the total failure to establish any real sense of what the Republic was, or what this terrific destruction meant for both it and the larger Galaxy meant that the scene had the depth of a childs shoe.

The Force Awakens is a better film than the prequels because it has a less convoluted and tighter plot backed up by solid acting, and offers an overall much steadier, reliable and consistently entertaining experience.

I thought it was a very good film but it lacked the color, vividness and imagination of Lucas's prequels, even despite their flaws. That's not for a second to say it's not a good film, or that it's inferior to the prequels that are so universally slated, but it could afford to take a lot of the good from them.

I really enjoyed TFA as a film but I find that retrospectively, when I think 'Star Wars', it still feels like an excellent spin-off rather than a core component of the ongoing story.

Hopefully for me that will change with the next installment.

Sad Professor

Abrams is no world-builder. But he made a film that's clearly set in the same universe as ANH. Empire and Jedi did the same. That's generally what sequels do. The prequels were over-designed – like a big budget period drama in which the director allows the elaborate costumes, props and sets overwhelm the characters. At times the prequels resemble Barry Lyndon in space except Kubrick knew what he was doing. Lucas never adapted his shooting style to this, which still favoured wide masters and full shots and barely any close-ups. It's almost impossible to find a single shot in the prequels of a character's face that don't have spaceships flying past in the background or some other element of Lucas's incredibly imaginative but suffocating universe. The original trilogy actually maintained a balance between the human characters and the sci-fi/fantasy world they inhabited, especially compared to the many other failed fantasy films of the '80s which suffered from an excess of visionary world-building over character.

david75

it's a gravestone...im tellin ye

Dricmeister

Could be guarding Anakin's grave (to stop the First Order stealing his cremated remains)...

david75

The production notes from the Skellig shoot says that Luke is guarding a sith tomb. Presumably to stop them finding some artefact?

Look up the hill when it pans out you can see his cave dwelling.

And the Skellig set has been rebuilt in the studio in England for shooting in January.



My bet is that's Reys mothers grave.

aaronjumper

Dricmeister wrote: »

Could be guarding Anakin's grave (to stop the First Order stealing his cremated remains)...

Well then he's doing a crap job of it.

Dricmeister

aaronjumper wrote: »

Well then he's doing a crap job of it.

Vader's helmet and Anakin's body are not the same thing...

Mickeroo

david75 wrote: »

it's a gravestone...im tellin ye

Have you been there? There's rocks like that sticking up all over the place.......

david75

Mickeroo wrote: »

Have you been there? There's rocks like that sticking up all over the place.......

Why put him standing over one *just* as she arrives?

He takes a heavy sigh and she starts crying..

That's Reys mothers grave. Bet my house on it.

david75

Mickeroo wrote: »

Have you been there? There's rocks like that sticking up all over the place.......

And have I been to the planet and location Luke is on in that scene? No I haven't.
ðŸ˜

aaronjumper

Dricmeister wrote: »

Vader's helmet and Anakin's body are not the same thing...

His body was cremated inside the suit. It would be easier to grab the whole thing than to waste time scooping out bits of skull and the like no?

david75

i posted a video last few pages explaining how Kylo has the helmet.
It's in some book that's new canon.

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

The production notes from the Skellig shoot says that Luke is guarding a sith tomb. Presumably to stop them finding some artefact?

That was a false rumour, from back when everyone thought Luke had a bigger role.

aaronjumper

david75 wrote: »

i posted a video last few pages explaining how Kylo has the helmet.
It's in some book that's new canon.

I'll go and have a look at it, might have skipped over it if I hadn't seen the movie yet.

david75

What are the brakes like for coming outta light speed or hyperspace?
Surely you'd need a really long slow down period?

Dricmeister

david75 wrote: »

What are the brakes like for coming outta light speed or hyperspace?
Surely you'd need a really long slow down period?

Ships seem to stop immediately. Remember the Imperial fleet coming out of lightspeed at Hoth in Empire or the Rebel fleet coming out of lightspeed at Endor?

david75

Dricmeister wrote: »

Ships seem to stop immediately. Remember the Imperial fleet coming out of lightspeed at Hoth in Empire or the Rebel fleet coming out of lightspeed at Endor?

Good catch! They'd need some serious brakes and inertial dampers though.

Mickeroo

david75 wrote: »

And have I been to the planet and location Luke is on in that scene? No I haven't.
ðŸ˜

The skelligs....in Kerry.... they'd hardly choose a random irregular shaped bit of rock that just happened to be on the ground as a gravestone. He's standing there because it's the best part of the island to stand so they could get that rather lovely final shot from the helicopter.

Maybe her mum is buried on the island but you're putting more thought into the shot than Abrams is likely to have.

david75

That lightsaber...it belongs to me..


Come get it



That's the only clunky dialogue for me. It's too far into now and not Star Wars.

Riddle101

david75 wrote: »

That lightsaber...it belongs to me..


Come get it



That's the only clunky dialogue for me. It's too far into now and not Star Wars.

Makes you wonder why Kylo Ren didn't just force pull the lightsaber out of his hand. Or is it possible he wanted to fight instead. Maybe it's a code of honor among Jedi and Sith.

aaronjumper

Riddle101 wrote: »

Makes you wonder why Kylo Ren didn't just force pull the lightsaber out of his hand. Or is it possible he wanted to fight instead. Maybe it's a code of honor among Jedi and Sith.

Probably wanted to test himself against a real opponent.
I imagine smashing up rooms and computers gets dull after awhile.

Sad Professor

George is sorry.

Dricmeister

So who do people think Snoke is?

Darth Plagueis?

One of Palpatine's clones?

Sad Professor

Dricmeister wrote: »

So who do people think Snoke is?

Darth Plagueis?

One of Palpatine's clones?

I think Snoke is Snoke.

Although this debate over him reminds of the Palpatine/Sidious discussions during the prequels. There was people arguing right until Episode III came out that they were two different people. That Sidious was Palpatine’s clone, or his evil brother. The amount of “hints" they found in the films to support this was quite astonishing. There was no reasoning with them either.

aloyisious

Who'd have thought there'd be at least one love-child in it?

Sad Professor

In other news, the continuity script submitted to the WGA has turned up online. It’s modified to match the film which means no deleted scenes or dialogue. But it would have been based on the shooting script, so some of the scene descriptions are kinda interesting. Kylo is described as being greatly weakened and shocked from killing Han. Luke isn’t surprised to see Rey and knows why she’s there. Leia is relieved to see Rey and gives her “a mother’s embrace”. Rey’s skills during the final duel are described as being “raw, innate”.

In other words, like the finished film itself, there’s evidence to support pretty much every theory.