Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Sad Professor

orubiru wrote: »

The whole discussion is kind of daft, I suppose, but it is really being pushed HARD in the media. You have articles like this http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/geek-male-identity-has-been-reduced-to-kylo-ren-impotently-thrashing-a-computer-with-his-sword-this-a6790401.html

"If Rey and other kick-ass heroines are icons of geek feminism, Kylo Ren seems like a portrait of geek masculinity at its worst." :eek:

I actually find this kind of analysis quite interesting. Fanboy culture has become so big in recent years it was bound to start making its way into films. Also you have to wonder if Kylo was subconsciously inspired by Abrams's trial by fire at the hands of Star Trek fans.

helimachoptor

helimachoptor wrote: »

...
- Should have left Rens mask on, he isn't going to evoke anything other than me thinking he's an emo

That's what you're supposed to think

...
- The new big bad, where did he come from?
- What are the knights of ren?

Neither are explained yet

wally79

Relikk wrote: »

It is. It was the saber that was in Lukes hand when it was chopped off on Bespin and disappeared down the shaft. That's why he had to build a new one. It was found somehow, hopefully explained in one of the later movies, and made its way to Maz where she had it stored in the box where Rey found it.

doh. Thanks

Penn

helimachoptor wrote: »

went to see it after watching the new 3 a while back and the older 3 over the last couple of weeks.

- Should have left Rens mask on, he isn't going to evoke anything other than me thinking he's an emo - I agree that he shouldn't have taken the mask off during his interrogation of Rey, but he definitely needed to take it off when Han told him to and for the fights afterwards.
- After Solos death, the MF lands back on the planet, Chewwie walks right by General Lea, i mean he should be going over to embrace her - Yeah, I thought that was weird too.
- As has been said, Reys super duper accelerated use of the force is a bit **** - In the first film, Luke is able to block the shots of the blaster thing while training with Obi-Wan by simply allowing the Force to control his actions. Obi-Wan says it can control your actions, or you can also command use of the Force. Rey obviously has some connection to the force and has heard stories about Luke etc, so she doesn't necessarily use the Force, she allows the Force to control her while fighting Ren.

a few questions

- No point building a bigger badder weapon, with a bigger flaw, i mean come on people - Yeah, they really need to ask their architects to design protection for their systems instead of just saying "We need a big hole through the centre of this building, just in case we need a body to fall down it"
- Why did they move away from the clone army? - I'd say most were killed by the end of ROTJ. Besides which, the clones were never really that effective.
- The new big bad, where did he come from?
- What are the knights of ren?

The last two will be explained in future films.

namloc1980

I thought the way they lowered the shields on the base was beyond daft. The ease with which Phasma gave up leads me to believe she is a Resistance spy or at least a sympathiser. Surely she'll be executed for treason/collusion in the next film by the First Order!

py2006

Star Wars 7 Passes Jurassic World, Titanic at US Box Office

The Force Awakens also became the fastest (and only the second movie ever) to reach $700 million, doing it 16 days. Avatar took 72 days to hit that mark. The Force Awakens also set a new domestic record for the biggest New Year’s Day box office haul with $34.5 million.

Globally, The Force Awakens pulled in $184.6 million this weekend, bringing its worldwide total to a whopping $1.51 billion. It will soon surpass The Avengers ($1.52 billion) and Furious 7 ($1.515 billion) to become the fourth-biggest movie of all time.

It’s also become IMAX’s second highest-grossing movie ever with a global total of $152 million, and in record time: The Force Awakens reached that total in only 19 days, as opposed to Avatar, which took 47 days. The Force Awakens has opened worldwide with the exception of China, where it will debut this weekend.

Why such a delay with China? The Chinese movie goers are what saved the recent Terminator movie guaranteeing a sequel (apparently). Surely, TFA when it opens there will make another fortune.

Sad Professor

py2006 wrote: »

Star Wars 7 Passes Jurassic World, Titanic at US Box Office



Why such a delay with China? The Chinese movie goers are what saved the recent Terminator movie guaranteeing a sequel (apparently). Surely, TFA when it opens there will make another fortune.

Star Wars isn't really a thing in China. It's a getting a big release, though, so it should do well, but I don't think anyone is expecting huge returns compared to the rest of the world.

Rebels fighting against a supressive regime?? Doubt it will be an unaltered film in China

Sad Professor

namloc1980 wrote: »

I thought the way they lowered the shields on the base was beyond daft. The ease with which Phasma gave up leads me to believe she is a Resistance spy or at least a sympathiser. Surely she'll be executed for treason/collusion in the next film by the First Order!

Yeah that scene annoyed me as well. Originally Leia had a weapon she used to breach the shields but that sub-plot was abandoned.

It might set-up Phasma's story for the next film, though. Maybe she'll go after Finn for revenge, Boba-Fett-style

Wibbs

Sad Professor wrote: »

It might set-up Phasma's story for the next film, though. Maybe she'll go after Finn for revenge, Boba-Fett-style

That's who she reminded me of in the character substitute stakes. Hopefully they utilise her more and better in the next ones. Sorely missed opportunity in this outing I felt.

namloc1980

Wibbs wrote: »

That's who she reminded me of in the character substitute stakes. Hopefully they utilise her more and better in the next ones. Sorely missed opportunity in this outing I felt.

She was a bit of a joke in it really. No matter what they do with her now, she'll still be the one who gave into the Resistance and because of her the base was destroyed and millions of First Order Troopers died. Surely they could've come up with a better idea for lowering the shields.

Penn

namloc1980 wrote: »

She was a bit of a joke in it really. No matter what they do with her now, she'll still be the one who gave into the Resistance and because of her the base was destroyed and millions of First Order Troopers died. Surely they could've come up with a better idea for lowering the shields.

She should have been the one to fight Finn with the weird spinny electric weapon (escaping due to the arrival of the Resistance rather than being killed or shot), and then Han & Finn just make a random stormtrooper lower the shields later.

namloc1980

Penn wrote: »

She should have been the one to fight Finn with the weird spinny electric weapon (escaping due to the arrival of the Resistance rather than being killed or shot), and then Han & Finn just make a random stormtrooper lower the shields later.

A hack job by BB-8 to lower the shields would have been the business!

wally79

I thought it was a good film but I agree with the idea it was ridiculous Rae defeated Ren.

Even if the force is strong in her we have been told in every film until now how important training in the ways of the force is and Ren was trained by Luke.

I hate to use the prequels to make a point but even there they were training kids from a young age. To now scrap training and say raw talent trumps that is a bit ridiculous.

Also, I was hoping for a serious twist when Fin picked up the lightsaber.

Mickeroo

wally79 wrote: »

I thought it was a good film but I agree with the idea it was ridiculous Rae defeated Ren.

Even if the force is strong in her we have been told in every film until now how important training in the ways of the force is and Ren was trained by Luke.

I hate to use the prequels to make a point but even there they were training kids from a young age. To now scrap training and say raw talent trumps that is a bit ridiculous.

Also, I was hoping for a serious twist when Fin picked up the lightsaber.

If we take that as true there's no way Luke could have bested Vader in ROTJ. He was much too old when he started training and received very little training at that, liiterally none between Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ in fact, which is the period he was supposed to have mastered his powers.

Walter E GO

Maz Kanata.

Sad Professor

Mickeroo wrote: »

If we take that as true there's no way Luke could have bested Vader in ROTJ. He was much too old when he started training and received very little training at that, liiterally none between Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ in fact, which is the period he was supposed to have mastered his powers.

Which is why the idea of Jedi younglings in the prequels was so dumb and inconsistent with what was previously established.

It's strange since it seems Lucas had it clear in his mind at one point that there were different types of Jedi. Knights like Obi-wan who were like samurai, and Master gurus like Yoda who didn't use lightsabers and were more like Buddhist monks.

Walter E GO

Snoke & Kylo Ren.

Walter E GO

Snoke, Kylo Ren & Hux.

wally79

wally79 wrote: »

I thought it was a good film but I agree with the idea it was ridiculous Rae defeated Ren.

Even if the force is strong in her we have been told in every film until now how important training in the ways of the force is and Ren was trained by Luke.

I hate to use the prequels to make a point but even there they were training kids from a young age. To now scrap training and say raw talent trumps that is a bit ridiculous.

Also, I was hoping for a serious twist when Fin picked up the lightsaber.

JJ-ism
Kirk in Trek made Captain of the Enterprise straight from flunking the academy, Rae becomes stupid strong in the course of 3 film scenes

Luke still needed SOME training.

py2006

I wonder how much Hamill got paid for that cameo?

I know Carrie got about 1.5 million
Ford got 25 mill plus a percentage of the profits.

Hamill had no lines, he just had to loose weight, grow a beard and pour pints in Portmagee.

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

JJ-ism
Kirk in Trek made Captain of the Enterprise straight from flunking the academy, Rae becomes stupid strong in the course of 3 film scenes

Luke still needed SOME training.

I reckon Rey already has received some training. Don't think she is a complete randomer.

Walter E GO

JJ Abrams behind the scenes at Skellig Michael.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon Rey already has received some training. Don't think she is a complete randomer.

There was reference to the awakening of a jedi, in stiry never mind the name of the film. So unless it's Finn also being jedi (to be fair he is a handy shot and okish with the saber) it's Rae and what training would ahe have gotten?

py2006

Scene in script that wasn't used or was deleted.

RDM_83 again

Mickeroo wrote: »

If we take that as true there's no way Luke could have bested Vader in ROTJ. He was much too old when he started training and received very little training at that, liiterally none between Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ in fact, which is the period he was supposed to have mastered his powers.

Watching the films though it works Luke gradually gets more powerful over three whole films even if the training isnt always explicitly shown.
Where has Rey to grow? she is already good at literally everything, yes emo vader was injured etc but as a film goer you've seen her beat every challenge fairly easily.

There is a major problem with this film I thought of last night, its essentially a remake of a New Hope but without the presence of the unstoppable Empire and plucky on the run underdogs being established (literally in first scenes of New Hope).
That film is essentially self contained which makes sense that its a semi complete story as it was shot as a stand alone.

This one one would have been stronger and set up series better if they had taken more from Empire showing the New Order as an actual threat

RDM_83 again

Mickeroo wrote: »

If we take that as true there's no way Luke could have bested Vader in ROTJ. He was much too old when he started training and received very little training at that, liiterally none between Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ in fact, which is the period he was supposed to have mastered his powers.

Watching the films though it works Luke gradually gets more powerful over three whole films even if the training isnt always explicitly shown.
Where has Rey to grow? she is already good at literally everything, yes emo vader was injured etc but as a film goer you've seen her beat every challenge fairly easily.

There is a major problem with this film I thought of last night, its essentially a remake of a New Hope but without the presence of the unstoppable Empire and plucky on the run underdogs being established (literally in first scenes of New Hope).
That film is essentially self contained which makes sense that its a semi complete story as it was shot as a stand alone.

This one one would have been stronger and set up series better if they had taken more from Empire showing the New Order as an actual threat

py2006

Deleted scene

Mickeroo

I'm not denying Rey's sudden power is a bit off but on re-watching the original films a few weeks before seeing this I found Luke's jump to zen jedi master between the end of Empire and the start of ROTJ just as unconvincing, all they had to do was make it so we went back to Yoda in the interim and completed his training but they make a point of showing that wasn't the case after Han is rescued. The training we see Luke get in episodes IV and V is minimal, pretty much no lightsabre training bar the blindfold/laser blaster (which he could literally do straight away!!). I don't think Abrams should get the blame for this one, the precedent was set in the originals, though to a lesser degree.

Wibbs

Mickeroo wrote: »

If we take that as true there's no way Luke could have bested Vader in ROTJ. He was much too old when he started training and received very little training at that, liiterally none between Empire Strikes Back and ROTJ in fact, which is the period he was supposed to have mastered his powers.

Not quite how it happened. Luke got handed his arse and hand on a plate in Empire, comes back in Return a little more together, but still gets his arse handed to him. The only reason he bests Vader - and this is a major plot point so I dunno how you missed it? - is he loses the rag when Vader suggests turning his sister and goes all Dark Side. Y'know the easy the seductive and all that. That's how he bests Vader and precisely what the Emperor wants. Luke then steps back from that abyss, at which point the Emperor really screws him up to near death and Luke's not close to a match for him, only for daddy to pull a guilty and sacrifice himself killing the Emperor.

It's far more nuanced a journey than Rey. Rey outa the box after… well nothing.. can do the voice, expel a trained Sith type from her mind, shoot like Billy the Kid when she's not fired a blaster before, move stuff with her mind and go toe to toe with a guy who is a Skywalker, trained by his uncle and by space Gollum and she ends up in the captains chair of the Falcon by the end. And like I say that's before we get to Darth Emo, I'm a great pilot, yes a truly great pilot I swear no really Poe, who is about as three dimensional a character as a stick figure(though clearly in the spot as Han II). I found Finn likeable, though as much to do with the actor chap as anything.

Just my humble but those going on about the gender stuff on both sides of that daft debate are missing the point IMH, it's covering up really gaping plot holes, massive copypasta from the first one and creaky storytelling.