Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Tony EH

seamus wrote: »

This is really it IMO. In IV, the death of Obi-Wan is devastating. Because the implications are huge - as far as we know, he's the last Jedi, the only one who can teach Luke about the force and for all intents and purposes he was Luke's father figure after the death of his Aunt and Uncle. Without Obi-Wan, everything seems lost.

All of this emotional investment in a single character, it's a devastating punch to the viewer, and it's only the end of the second act when he dies.

That's what Han's death was missing. If you'd never seen Star Wars before you wouldn't miss him all that much.

Han Solo's death is one of the worst things about 'The Force Awakens'.

They literally eliminated the best and most enjoyable character in the whole series.

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

Faraci's complaint is the same geek complaint that always comes up for these films. I recall Knowles or McWeeny (or one of the long-winded AICN guys) taking similar issue with Bruce's portrayal in TDKR. Basically it amounted to the same argument: this character was my childhood hero/template for masculinity and I take issue with him being depicted as human.

So it turns out Han was a bad father who didn't know to talk to his son, and Luke failed so badly he gave up, and Leia might have abandoned her son because she feared he'd become like her father. People f**k up and are often too stubborn to ever admit it and their kids have to deal with it. That's what Star Wars is all about: legacy and dealing with mistakes of the previous generation, albeit on a galactic scale.

Actually, it's about one family's drama ****ing up the entire universe for everyone else. :pac: Everything would be probably be grand if it wasn't for the Skywalkers.

It's kind of good that Han and Leia didn't work out. It makes a certain sense.

SarahBM

Perhaps a silly/stupid question, but was star wars the original "space opera"!?!? The only thing I have ever heard referred to as a space opera is star wars.

Tony EH

I think "Space Operas" are just adventure stories set in space. So, with that in mind, there's a ton of them going. 'Dune' would be one. 'John Carter of Mars' another, 'Star Trek', 'Battlestar Galactica' and whatever you're having yourself.

eviltimeban

Tony EH wrote: »

Han Solo's death is one of the worst things about 'The Force Awakens'.

They literally eliminated the best and most enjoyable character in the whole series.

30 years ago, maybe. He wasn't the most enjoyable thing about TFA. That was the new guys.

Wedwood

Tony EH wrote: »

Han Solo's death is one of the worst things about 'The Force Awakens'.

They literally eliminated the best and most enjoyable character in the whole series.

There's no mass revolt by the fans to Solo's death, which in fairness was widely predicted by the fans as soon as Ford signed on to make the movie. I think most people knew this was the quid pro quo to get him on board, which was better than no Han Solo at all in the movie.

Baggy Trousers

eviltimeban wrote: »

30 years ago, maybe. He wasn't the most enjoyable thing about TFA. That was the new guys.

I disagree, I thought Han Solo was the best character in the movie by a country mile. The new people need more time to grow. I liked Kylo until he took off the mask - I think he should have kept it on more.

Han Solo's death really shocked me too.

bradolf pittler

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I disagree, I thought Han Solo was the best character in the movie by a country mile. The new people need more time to grow. I liked Kylo until he took off the mask - I think he should have kept it on more.

Han Solo's death really shocked me too.

Kylo should have kept the mask on until he met Han.
Han should have asked him to take it off on the bridge so the audience could see he was just a boy.

Tony EH

eviltimeban wrote: »

30 years ago, maybe. He wasn't the most enjoyable thing about TFA. That was the new guys.

Nah. Rae was ok. But Finn just annoyed me, I have to admit. I couldn't get with his character at all.

Han Solo's interaction with Chewie was still way ahead of anything else, in terms of bringing a smile to your face.

Baggy Trousers

Tony EH wrote: »

Han Solo's interaction with Chewie was still way ahead of anything else, in terms of bringing a smile to your face.

+1000

Han Solo's death was like the end of an era for me.

In other words, I felt a huge disturbance in the force...;)

Wedwood

Abrams responds those accusing him of ripping off the old movies. 'we had to go backwards to go forwards'. Makes a fair point.

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0108/758795-jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

buried

Wedwood wrote: »

Abrams responds those accusing him of ripping off the old movies. 'we had to go backwards to go forwards'. Makes a fair point.

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0108/758795-jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

The fact he is stating that, he is actually admitting that he did rip off the old movies. And he did.

Dud he have to go backwards to go forwards with Trek too?

I'm sorry but the man has previous form in this.

david75

buried wrote: »

The fact he is stating that, he is actually admitting that he did rip off the old movies. And he did.

You should look up the list of films and entire genres George Lucas 'ripped off' to make Star Wars.

buried

david75 wrote: »

You should look up the list of films and entire genres George Lucas 'ripped off' to make Star Wars.

Yeah, that's fair enough, I know of all the films and stories George Lucas "ripped off" or used to help create the original 'Star wars' movies. All art does that to an extent, but when it gets to the stage where 'Star wars' has to rip off itself in order to create more 'Star wars' movies then you've got a serious problem.

Tony EH

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

+1000

Han Solo's death was like the end of an era for me.

In other words, I felt a huge disturbance in the force...;)

Yeh, me me too. The subtle comic moments between Han and Chewie were always great. The jokes were all punchline (because obviously nobody knows what the wookiee is saying), but they worked brilliantly.

I know John Boyega is supposed to be some sort of replacement, but to me he's like a class clown that got a little irritating the more he tried to make people laugh.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

You should look up the list of films and entire genres George Lucas 'ripped off' to make Star Wars.

Yeh, but it still looked fresh. Nothing like 'Star Wars' was seen before. It really did feel like something new in 1977.

david75

buried wrote: »

Yeah, that's fair enough, I know of all the films and stories George Lucas "ripped off" or used to help create the original 'Star wars' movies. All art does that to an extent, but when it gets to the stage where 'Star wars' has to rip off itself in order to create more 'Star wars' movies then you've got a serious problem.

I'm a lifelong star wars fan and this was no 'rip off'. It did something impossible. Went and somehow recaptured that magic in a bottle again, an impossible task, and made not only Star Wars fans but looking at the numbers, the whole world excited to see Star Wars again and it regained all of our trust in the best way. Something I thought couldn't be done after the toxicity attached to it cos of the prequels and not only them but the myopic but widespread view that Star Wars was for geeks or nerds.

It's made it for everyone and that's something tangible and something special that only happens once in a generation maybe.

You don't do that by just being 'a rip off'. You do that by making a great film and kindling people's curiosity and sense of wonder.

And it's done that to the ultimate degree.

buried

david75 wrote: »

I'm a lifelong star wars fan and this was no 'rip off'. It did something impossible. Went and somehow recaptured that magic in a bottle again, an impossible task, and made not only Star Wars fans but looking at the numbers, the whole world excited to see Star Wars again and it regained all of our trust in the best way. Something I thought couldn't be done after the toxicity attached to it cos of the prequels and not only them but the myopic but widespread view that Star Wars was for geeks or nerds.

It's made it for everyone and that's something tangible and something special that only happens once in a generation maybe.

You don't do that by just being 'a rip off'. You do that by making a great film and kindling people's curiosity and sense of wonder.

And it's done that to the ultimate degree.

Well it didn't do so for me, and I'm a lifelong Star wars fan too. All I seen was a total rip off of the original episodes, and the few good friends I know who are also lifelong fans of the original movies feel the exact same way after talking to them today . You obviously see it different, and that's fair enough too. Everyone is going to see it differently, But for me, it was a total rip off and i think I'll stick to episodes IV,V & VI being the real 'Star Wars' for me and leave it at that

SarahBM

I am going to go watch my dvds of the original cuts of episodes IV, V and VI that I didn't realise I had til this week. LOL

Kylo Ren should have left the mask on

Sad Professor

I really don’t see how a sequel can be accused of ripping off one of the previous films in the same series. I assume people just mean that it’s a rehash. Even though lots of great sequels do the same thing and are praised for it. I mean, that’s what a sequel is: more of the same but bigger and better or darker and more mature or whatever. There’s obviously a fine line between being too similar and being too different to the original film, but I think it’s different for everyone. And in the aftermath of the prequels, which were generally accused of not feeling like Star Wars at all, being too much like Star Wars isn’t exactly a bad thing.

Wedwood

Proper Star Wars for many people means simple story, good guys v bad guys, the Force, super weapon threatening the galaxy, stormtroopers, X wings and Tie Fighters and the Millenium Falcon.

That's what we got in the first three movies, that's what we got with the new movie. It was a bit of craic and I bought a Kylo Ren action figure afterwards.

My kid said seeing Star Wars on the big screen was a totally different and brilliant experience to seeing it on the telly.

The old guy went home happy, the young guy went home happy. Does it need to be more than that ?

buried

Sad Professor wrote: »

I really don’t see how a sequel can be accused of ripping off one of the previous films in the same series. I assume people just mean that it’s a rehash. Even though lots of great sequels do the same thing and are praised for it. I mean, that’s what a sequel is: more of the same but bigger and better or darker and more mature or whatever. There’s obviously a fine line between being too similar and being too different to the original film, but I think it’s different for everyone. And in the aftermath of the prequels, which were generally accused of not feeling like Star Wars at all, being too much like Star Wars isn’t exactly a bad thing.

But this sequel literally has literally rehashed every single scenario that the original episodes had, from the cutesy droid carrying the secret plans, the 1000 year old, wise sage that can see and know the "mysticism" behind it all, the exact same villain super weapon that has to be destroyed, when we find Han and chewie they are the same smuggling out and out rag tags that they were in episode IV, the same father/son shock reveal, etc... etc... I could go on and on with this it was so blatant. Sequels just can't literally just copy themselves like that because if they do then whats the point? Is it a film sequel or a Franchise sequel? Did "The Godfather part II" just rehash the same exact same story and scenario's from the first one?

david75

buried wrote: »

Well it didn't do so for me, and I'm a lifelong Star wars fan too. All I seen was a total rip off of the original episodes, and the few good friends I know who are also lifelong fans of the original movies feel the exact same way after talking to them today . You obviously see it different, and that's fair enough too. Everyone is going to see it differently, But for me, it was a total rip off and i think I'll stick to episodes IV,V & VI being the real 'Star Wars' for me and leave it at that

That's fair. But what would we have all said if it contained *nothing* from Star Wars as we know it? Characters, themes, sets of whatever. We'd be calling it all sorts and giving it endless abuse. There was a happy medium and it needed to use some stuff to Conjour up and reestablish that universe and how we feel about it.

I'd suggest seeing it again. A few times.

Means Of Escape

Wedwood wrote: »

Abrams responds those accusing him of ripping off the old movies. 'we had to go backwards to go forwards'. Makes a fair point.

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0108/758795-jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

He did the same rip off in Star Trek the edge of darkness rehashing The Wrath of Khan
Nothing new like this Star Wars movie
Kylo Ren miscast
Storm troopers have completely lost their impact
Token return of Leia waste of time
Death Star been done before commanded by a more menacing and able actor in Peter Cushing.Gleeson poor.
Gollums appearance was an eye opener
No new interesting character to give the movie an edge
Even a return of one of the Hutts or even Bib Fortuna surviving the skiff explosion and developing his character would have been a welcome e distraction
Looked like the video game Killzone
Forgettable characters from beginning to end
Millennium Falcon and its original crew only thing that held the movie together .

Lucas should never have sold out.
His fundamental ideas were excellent
Im sure he llearned a lot from his last outing and with new scriptwriters /creative team he would have made a better job of it .

buried

david75 wrote: »

That's fair. But what would we have all said if it contained *nothing* from Star Wars as we know it? Characters, themes, sets of whatever. We'd be calling it all sorts and giving it endless abuse. There was a happy medium and it needed to use some stuff to Conjour up and reestablish that universe and how we feel about it.

I'd suggest seeing it again. A few times.

But you can have all that as long as you can differentiate the basic story into something new, organised, original and tangible. Just like I said above, did a film like "The Godfather part II" have to copy the first film to make it tangible? Of course it didn't. The difference here is that Disney, Abrams, whoever is involved in this, just sees it as a money making franchise and nothing else, and that's why I'm out and won't bother with the rest of these "films"

david75

buried wrote: »

But you can have all that as long as you can differentiate the basic story into something new, organised, original and tangible. Just like I said above, did a film like "The Godfather part II" have to copy the first film to make it tangible? Of course it didn't. The difference here is that Disney, Abrams, whoever is involved in this, just sees it as a money making franchise and nothing else, and that's why I'm out and won't bother with the rest of these "films"

I think that's a bit harsh. But even if that's true I'd rather have new Star Wars in my life than not. And it takes a lot to say that given how burned we all were by the prequels.

Sad that you & others couldn't love it. I could so easily think the same way, I'd be the first to say so had I not liked it. Glad I do tho

buried

david75 wrote: »

I think that's a bit harsh. But even if that's true I'd rather have new Star Wars in my life than not. And it takes a lot to say that given how burned we all were by the prequels.

Sad that you & others couldn't love it. I could so easily think the same way, I'd be the first to say so bad I not liked it. Glad I do tho

I'm also sad that I couldn't love it. I really, really wanted to, but i found it so poor, soulless and franchised based so I'm just going to ignore it. I'm glad you enjoy it though, fair play, i hope you enjoy the rest of them, I genuinely mean that

david75

buried wrote: »

I'm also sad that I couldn't love it. I really, really wanted to, but i found it so poor, soulless and franchised based so I'm just going to ignore it. I'm glad you enjoy it though, fair play, i hope you enjoy the rest of them, I genuinely mean that

Are you interested in Rogue one?
I'm having trouble being bothered about that at all. And that's using no characters we know at all, though Vader and Tarkin are in it.

Maybe closer to the time it'll happen but can't muster much excitement right now for it.

buried

david75 wrote: »

Are you interested in Rogue one?
I'm having trouble being bothered about that at all. And that's using no characters we know at all, though Vader and Tarkin are in it.

Maybe closer to the time it'll happen but can't muster much excitement right now for it.

Nah, I don't think I'll bother with that at all Dave. The way I look at the whole Star Wars universe, I'll keep it to what I enjoyed as a kid back in the 80's with the original episodes and leave it at that. Can't enjoy these new installments whatsoever. But that's just me y'know? I'm sure plenty people enjoy all these new installments and that's great, but it's just not for me y'know?