Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

david75

Totally understand that. Jumped into the expanded universe and read two books. After years of thinking how can you put Star Wars magic on the page, but both the ones I read were great. You could always go to the books in canon for more of that.

david75

Why 'The Force Awakens' Is the 'Star Wars' Movie We Needed
J.J. Abrams' insanely popular film plays like a 'New Hope' remake — which is exactly why it works

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/why-the-force-awakens-is-the-star-wars-movie-we-needed-20160108#ixzz3wi9ZJW5X

Riddle101

Wedwood wrote: »

Abrams responds those accusing him of ripping off the old movies. 'we had to go backwards to go forwards'. Makes a fair point.

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0108/758795-jj-abrams-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

buried wrote: »

The fact he is stating that, he is actually admitting that he did rip off the old movies. And he did.

This is used in film making often I think. Often times the makers of the movie will use ideas from other movies for their own movie. Like Avatar had a few ideas taking from other movies, I believe Pocahontas was one of them. Interstellar to me seemed a bit like 2001 a Space Odyssey, and Quentin Tarantino has even admitted to using influences from other movies.

Either way I don't think it should be looked down upon if a movie does tend to use influences from other movies.

scruff monkey

if it's not already been posted, a fine take down of some "critics" issues with the movie

https://m.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

scruff monkey

if it's not already been posted, a fine take down of some "critics" issues with the movie

https://m.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

david75

Wow...in Reys force vision you actually hear Luke goin Noooooo Noooooo from Vader tellin him the news..just after he has his hand on R2

Means Of Escape

buried wrote: »

I'm also sad that I couldn't love it. I really, really wanted to, but i found it so poor, soulless and franchised based so I'm just going to ignore it. I'm glad you enjoy it though, fair play, i hope you enjoy the rest of them, I genuinely mean that

I agree . I too was looking forward to the continuation of ROTJ but was bitterly disappointed
It was hollow .
I can understand presenting an "old" movie to a new generation but not at the cost of great characters and ideas that set SW apart from the offset.
ANY storyline would have made this movie a blockbuster such was the hype and anticipation surrounding it and the sad part was that with more thought this could have been a fantastic movie .
Choices of cast were poor overall and disappointing .

Not everyone should have to believe that it was amazing .

SpaceCowb0y

Wedwood wrote: »

Proper Star Wars for many people means simple story, good guys v bad guys, the Force, super weapon threatening the galaxy, stormtroopers, X wings and Tie Fighters and the Millenium Falcon.

That's what we got in the first three movies, that's what we got with the new movie. It was a bit of craic and I bought a Kylo Ren action figure afterwards.

My kid said seeing Star Wars on the big screen was a totally different and brilliant experience to seeing it on the telly.

The old guy went home happy, the young guy went home happy. Does it need to be more than that ?

This!! This is exactly what Star Wars is all about... it's fun, it appeals to multiple generations in different ways but more or less for the same reasons. Its a fucking made up movie that ok bends some truths about physics etc WHO CARES! I didn't see this many people kick up a stink over The Matrix. Just enjoy the bloody movie and let the kids do the same without hammering out intricate plot flaws!

Some people have too much time on their hands:rolleyes:

david75

Lads
War has broken Out between the Emo Kylo Ren and very Loney Luke Skywalker Twitter accounts. And it's hilarious.

http://epicstream.com/features/This-Twitter-Spat-Between-Emo-Kylo-Ren-and-Very-Lonely-Luke-is-Awesome

TerrorFirmer

scruff monkey wrote: »

if it's not already been posted, a fine take down of some "critics" issues with the movie

https://m.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

That's not really what the link is about. That link is a guy answering an article published elsewhere entitled '40 Plot Holes in The Force Awakens'.

It doesn't address a large number of the issues many critics had with the film, many of which are on this thread.

At one point he does talk extremely briefly about criticism over plot similarities between TFA and ANH, but broadly speaking he's just filling in plot holes.

It's a click-bait type story created in response to a click-bait type story.

SpaceCowb0y

Plot hole schmlot hole... More Falcon, more blasters.... pew pew! More droids! Oh shit sword style lightsaber! Han and Chewie YAY!! Tie fighters and X-wings battling... pew pew pew! Fuck a duck, it's Luke in Kerry! Anddddd... roll credits and epic theme tune!

Everyone leaves happy and life goes on! The Galaxy waits impatiently until 2017...


God I love Star Wars!

PhiloCypher

david75 wrote: »

Lads
War has broken Out between the Emo Kylo Ren and very Loney Luke Skywalker Twitter accounts. And it's hilarious.

http://epicstream.com/features/This-Twitter-Spat-Between-Emo-Kylo-Ren-and-Very-Lonely-Luke-is-Awesome

You're very easily amused David . It's just a rehash of far funnier twitter parody spats .

TerrorFirmer

buried wrote: »

Well it didn't do so for me, and I'm a lifelong Star wars fan too. All I seen was a total rip off of the original episodes, and the few good friends I know who are also lifelong fans of the original movies feel the exact same way after talking to them today . You obviously see it different, and that's fair enough too. Everyone is going to see it differently, But for me, it was a total rip off and i think I'll stick to episodes IV,V & VI being the real 'Star Wars' for me and leave it at that

I thought TFA was a really decent film but it didn't hugely work for me as a Star Wars film either, I actually find the prequels have a much stronger Star Wars spirit to them - the imagery, the characters, the soundtracks, the landscapes, and so on. It doesn't mean they're better technical films but to me they are more Star Wars despite their outrageous flaws.

I can appreciate that what's been done here is a successful re-boot of the franchise, in that it's setting up to bring the Star Wars galaxy to a much vaster audience in the longer term.

I just couldn't really look past that very fact that it was to a large degree just a re-boot of A New Hope - I understand why, but as a fan I was somewhat disappointed. I had seen it all before, it was stale to a certain extent.

I'm not sure I would have trusted Lucas either, but I feel his output would have captured that soul I felt was lacking in TFA. The only problem is that after the prequels, who could really have faith in him either?

Nowhere near as bad as they're made out to be and personally, there wasn't a single scene in TFA remotely as good, or as menacing, as the best moments from The Phantom Menance, or Revenge of the Sith. However, they are massively flawed, and to give TFA credit, it is a much more consistent, better directed and incomparably better acted film.

The biggest way TFA fell flat in my opinion was in it's creation of a living, breathing galaxy - it just isn't there, and it doesn't work. It's far more localized affair and there's very little sense of scale - it is one of the few things that Lucas always did excellently, paint vivid depictions of a bustling galaxy occupied by all manners of people and beings from millions of planets across a vast, endless galaxy.

I really have my fingers crossed for the next movie though. They've played it safe and created a massive fan-base eager to discover more about this universe - now they can afford to take bolder strides. I certainly don't want The Empire Strikes Back re-hashed, but I'm hoping that the next film will be of a similar caliber - but fresh, new, and exciting, and capture everything that made the original trilogy so exciting.

david75

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You're very easily amused David . It's just a rehash of far funnier twitter parody spats .

I'd rather judge for myself what's funny, thanks:)
I'll take amusement where I find it. You'd have to, reading This thread.

SarahBM

SpaceCowb0y wrote: »

Plot hole schmlot hole... More Falcon, more blasters.... pew pew! More droids! Oh shit sword style lightsaber! Han and Chewie YAY!! Tie fighters and X-wings battling... pew pew pew! Fuck a duck, it's Luke in Kerry! Anddddd... roll credits and epic theme tune!

Everyone leaves happy and life goes on! The Galaxy waits impatiently until 2017...


God I love Star Wars!

I think this is my favourite review so far! :D:P:P:rolleyes::rolleyes:

py2006

Apparently the clip of Daisy watching the trailer for first time was in a B&B in Dublin...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoCP-zTxYro

SpaceCowb0y

SarahBM wrote: »

I think this is my favourite review so far! :D:P:P:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Why thank you I may edit the analysis later or tomorrow and do a more in depth recap as im going to see it again at 8:30 tonight.

If not i'lll make sure to go all out for Episode VIII ha!

turniphead

scruff monkey wrote: »

if it's not already been posted, a fine take down of some "critics" issues with the movie

https://m.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277/

That is such an excellent piece. I'd like to think that most people are happy with the movie and rooting for the success of the entire franchise.

Of course there are a few little bits and pieces in TFA that aren't perfect but if you're willing to accept them and embrace all the good things about the movie then you will have a very enjoyable experience.

eviltimeban

Daisy really is a stunner, it hasn't been said enough. She has great screen presence too, like a young Kiera Knightley as someone stated before.

I slightly agree with the point made a few posts ago, about how the prequels had a lot of Star Wars spirit - for me, TPM will always be a "real" SW movie, yes even including Jar Jar and the Gungans. Why? Well, it was shot on film not digital, didn't have too much CGI, the plot moved forward at a good pace, the pod race was really entertaining, Liam Neeson was great, Darth Maul felt like a really threatening baddie, and we had a fantastic duel at the end.

The next ones were about the "love" story (really, Twilight was a better story in this case) and some awful, awful acting from everyone concerned. I can't watch Hayden Christiansen's monotone delivery of his lines any more. He makes it "not Star Wars" for me. I know he's a better actor as he was OK in Jumper, so it must be the script and direction.

Anyhow, I disagree that the prequels have more spirit than TFA - TFA had just the right amount of SW spirit. The interesting thing will be will Rogue One have that spirit too? That's a discussion for the other thread however.

Nervous Wreck

eviltimeban wrote: »

I slightly agree with the point made a few posts ago, about how the prequels had a lot of Star Wars spirit - for me, TPM will always be a "real" SW movie, yes even including Jar Jar and the Gungans. Why? Well, it was shot on film not digital, didn't have too much CGI, the plot moved forward at a good pace, the pod race was really entertaining, Liam Neeson was great, Darth Maul felt like a really threatening baddie, and we had a fantastic duel at the end.

I'm sorry, I have to pick this apart. Not too much CGI? There was one shot in the entire film that didn't have CGI and that was a shot of an air vent. The plot absolutely did not move forward at a good pace; the only things that really happened were they met Anakin and a Sith force and Palpatine moved up a political rung (which no one actually gives a real shít about). For the Anakin part of that, it took aaaaaaaaaaaages. The podrace scene alone lasted 13 minutes, and that was after we had to go through all the bullshít of Qui Gon negotiating with (and eventually just plain cheating) Watto for Anakin's freedom, hearing a load of crap about virgin births and spending however long watching Obi-Wan and Tanaka sitting on a grounded spaceship in the desert having bad feelings about this. I think I'm in the minority on the next point but even at 12 years old watching this movie in the cinema, I found the podrace utterly boring ("Oh, another lap? Okay... I guess I haven't seen this canyon enough times yet..."). Neeson was fine but the dialogue he was given was a bit bleh. Darth Maul was fantastic until they killed him (and their one shot to maybe rival the brilliance of Darth Vader in the prequels). The duel at the end was fantastic, despite its flaws though, yes. And the "Duel of the Fates" piece by John Williams made it all the better.

SarahBM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I'm sorry, I have to pick this apart. Not too much CGI? There was one shot in the entire film that didn't have CGI and that was a shot of an air vent. The plot absolutely did not move forward at a good pace; the only things that really happened were they met Anakin and a Sith force and Palpatine moved up a political rung (which no one actually gives a real shít about). For the Anakin part of that, it took aaaaaaaaaaaages. The podrace scene alone lasted 13 minutes, and that was after we had to go through all the bullshít of Qui Gon negotiating with (and eventually just plain cheating) Watto for Anakin's freedom, hearing a load of crap about virgin births and spending however long watching Obi-Wan and Tanaka sitting on a grounded spaceship in the desert having bad feelings about this. I think I'm in the minority on the next point but even at 12 years old watching this movie in the cinema, I found the podrace utterly boring ("Oh, another lap? Okay... I guess I haven't seen this canyon enough times yet..."). Neeson was fine but the dialogue he was given was a bit bleh. Darth Maul was fantastic until they killed him (and their one shot to maybe rival the brilliance of Darth Vader in the prequels). The duel at the end was fantastic, despite its flaws though, yes. And the "Duel of the Fates" piece by John Williams made it all the better.

I agree, especially about the CGI.
The best thing about that film was Neeson, Darth Maul and the Dual of the Fates.

Yet I do find myself watching it again.

david75

Oh no. This makes it too much like the prequels imo 😂


Captain Phasma might be one of the most visually striking villains in the “Star Wars” saga thanks to her polished metal armor. But according to the official visual dictionary of “The Force Awakens,” it, too, is a prequel reference. Her armor was crafted from the hull of a Naboo starship once owned by Emperor Palpatine. Remember the silver ships Padme and Anakin used to criss-crossed the galaxy? Now every time you look at Captain Phasma, you’ll be reminded of that more elegant time in spacefaring.

SarahBM

david75 wrote: »

Oh no. This makes it too much like the prequels imo 😂


Captain Phasma might be one of the most visually striking villains in the “Star Wars” saga thanks to her polished metal armor. But according to the official visual dictionary of “The Force Awakens,” it, too, is a prequel reference. Her armor was crafted from the hull of a Naboo starship once owned by Emperor Palpatine. Remember the silver ships Padme and Anakin used to criss-crossed the galaxy? Now every time you look at Captain Phasma, you’ll be reminded of that more elegant time in spacefaring.

Well now, if you hadn't told us that fact, I would have continued on in blissful ignorance! So thanks for that!

TerrorFirmer

Captain Phasma was criminally wasted in TFA. It's not just about the screen time, less can be more with the introduction of some characters at the beginning of a trilogy like this, but that precious little time did not develop the character in any compelling way - a very flat, generic, and hollow character.

It would have been cool if they changed it slightly to accommodate the possibility that she fought Finn with the staff, and not the random trooper - maybe have been injured by the lightsaber, but not killed.

They could have done a Robocop job, imagine the light saber getting so close that it cuts through the helmet and you can see the glow of the blade reflected in one very human eye exposed by the damage as Phasma struggles to hold it back with the electro-staff. Something elaborate could have happened to break up the fight, and Phasma makes her retreat, ideally with war wounds.

Personally I would have the above, and have had Ren come on the battlefield before he retreats, in time to save Phasma from Finn by using force powers from a distance as his soldiers are making good their retreat all around them. A long, tense scene in which Ren stares at Finn, a stormtrooper in the midst of a battlefield, holding a lightsaber, as x-wings and tie fighters continue to dog fight in the skies above. And you can sense that Ren knows the significance of the weapon, he can feel it, but he's forced to withdraw as the last First Order troops depart and focus on Rey.

I couldn't care less if Phasma disappeared from the movies altogether after TFA though, really.

kirk buttercup

SpaceCowb0y wrote:

Plot hole schmlot hole... More Falcon, more blasters.... pew pew! More droids! Oh **** sword style lightsaber! Han and Chewie YAY!! Tie fighters and X-wings battling... pew pew pew! **** a duck, it's Luke in Kerry! Anddddd... roll credits and epic theme tune!

SpaceCowb0y wrote:

Everyone leaves happy and life goes on! The Galaxy waits impatiently until 2017...

SpaceCowb0y wrote:

God I love Star Wars!

SarahBM wrote:

I think this is my favourite review so far!

Agreed
This is the best review of any movie I have ever seen. Brilliant

david75

There won't be an extended edition. But there will be deleted scenes included on the DVD / blu Ray
http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2016/01/jj-abrams-says-force-awakens-dvd-will.html?m=1

eviltimeban

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I'm sorry, I have to pick this apart. Not too much CGI? There was one shot in the entire film that didn't have CGI and that was a shot of an air vent. The plot absolutely did not move forward at a good pace; the only things that really happened were they met Anakin and a Sith force and Palpatine moved up a political rung (which no one actually gives a real shít about). For the Anakin part of that, it took aaaaaaaaaaaages. The podrace scene alone lasted 13 minutes, and that was after we had to go through all the bullshít of Qui Gon negotiating with (and eventually just plain cheating) Watto for Anakin's freedom, hearing a load of crap about virgin births and spending however long watching Obi-Wan and Tanaka sitting on a grounded spaceship in the desert having bad feelings about this. I think I'm in the minority on the next point but even at 12 years old watching this movie in the cinema, I found the podrace utterly boring ("Oh, another lap? Okay... I guess I haven't seen this canyon enough times yet..."). Neeson was fine but the dialogue he was given was a bit bleh. Darth Maul was fantastic until they killed him (and their one shot to maybe rival the brilliance of Darth Vader in the prequels). The duel at the end was fantastic, despite its flaws though, yes. And the "Duel of the Fates" piece by John Williams made it all the better.

Not as much CGI as the following two movies anyway. All that stuff on Coruscant, the CGI Yoda, the endless superimpositions... at least Phantom had the Tattooine set which was real. Naboo looked great too.

The pace of the second movie was SOOO slow in comparison - all the "love" scenes killed that movie stone dead. Regardless of the plot points of TPM, it did move reasonably well - from Tattooine to Gungan-land (?) to Naboo to Coruscant, back to Naboo for the big face off with the droid army. A lot of that stuff was cool but people forget because they go "Jar Jar this" or "pod race that".

This isn't the thread to argue the relative merits of the prequels but in comparison to TFA, I'll put TPM with it in terms of "spirit" and at least feeling like a Star Wars movie.

Means Of Escape

The movie as a science fiction piece was good but as a continuation of the saga it was poor.
So much potential and possibilities from the Star Wars universe to be drawn from and the audience were given a hollow presentation of rehashed unimaginative fare
In Lucas defence the one thing he did was offer an array of interesting characters and planets and he did it with aplomb
The new cardboard characters presented in TFA are forgettable.For Adam Drivers face to be revealed was the greatest letdown not only as the mystery of Kylo Ren was lost in that minute but the fact that an unconvincing affable face was behind it .
The premise was a cod .Solo had to be in it or it would have fallen flat on its face .
One would be forgiven if they thought they were watching The Hunger Games in Space given its plot .
TFA could have captured the essence of SW with more thought ,careful casting and brought the audience to new worlds
More was expected
A fitting return to the screen with characters one cares about rather than bland backdrops to special effects that are used to draw the new audience who now demand it .
Yes it was entertaining but void of what made SW great .

david75

You've missed the point of Kylo completely.
If he was just another bad guy in a mask it would justifiably called a boring retread/Vader II

The point was we see a conflicted character and a Villian in the making, desperately wants to be bad but he just isn't so has conflict.

A much more interesting proposition than just another bad guy.

Means Of Escape

david75 wrote: »

You've missed the point of Kylo completely.
If he was just another bad guy in a mask it would justifiably called a boring retread/Vader II

The point was we see a conflicted character and a Villian in the making, desperately wants to be bad but he just isn't so has conflict.

A much more interesting proposition than just another bad guy.

No I haven't
We have already seen the internal conflict idea before with Anakin and having Kylo Ren in the same mindset we HAD a Vader 2 in TFA and following movies .
When he announced "I'll finish what you started "one expected a true dark character void of emotion , a new menace that would top all "dark side "characters that came before .-
Instead we were left with what transpired to be two toothless characters (general and Ren) that were the nemesis in this latest instalment leaving some fans disappointed .
Placing him as the lost son of Solo was jaw dropping in its silliness and seems to have been used to bind Solo into the movie ,give him purpose for being cast and in turn write him out at the end
Rens ability with a light sabre was pathetic ,wielding it like a medieval broad sword and for the other two to get the better of a master of the force beggared belief
For Ren to have the ability to halt a blaster beam made his character v interesting in his abilities at the beginning and yet couldn't dispatch the two !!
His unmasking was a fatal mistake on the movie - his mystique evaporated .
It all seemed contrived -original characters placed to hold the nostalgic interest of older fans .


As for the scene where Solo was caught between the two gangs who looked like they came off the Michael Jackson video Beat it I nearly choked on the popcorn .

This movie makes the other movies look like masterpieces in every aspect .